Author alphamale Posted February 5, 2005 Author Share Posted February 5, 2005 Originally posted by shamen I believe that there are points in our lives where many of us probably could use talking to a therapist (and I completely agree with the poster who said earlier that sometimes just talking to our friends isn't enough) to help sort out where we are. They ask questions of us that sometimes we are afraid to answer. Make us think about the decisions that we're making, instead of letting us just become complacent about what we're doing and living our lives without a deeper contemplation. hmmm....excellent. so it is an objective point of view? Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 For the most part, yes, it's a panacea. That is, of course, a simplification. You have to have someone who's good at what they do (awful ones abound) and you have to be committed to working it out. However, a lot of people think introspection is a panacea, and i think counseling, although incredibly unfun, is a lot closer to a cure-all. Link to post Share on other sites
shamen Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale hmmm....excellent. so it is an objective point of view? Like Dyer said, "awful ones abound." So, it's all about finding one that's good for you. Again, I like psychologists because they don't prescribe meds. Other people like them for just that reason. I haven't liked every counselor I've seen. I've switched in mid "working on the issues" because I didn't feel that the one I was seeing was as effective as other ones. Once you find a good one though, it's painful. I know I have a good one when I walk away afterwards feeling really good, but emotionally exhausted. I start making life plans and goals again. Stuff that I put on hold when I'm not quite right. Link to post Share on other sites
immoralist Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Good question, alpha. I've never had the pleasure of counseling (talk therapy) , but I suspect it would be helpful for basically healthy, bright, articulate people who are going through a bad spot in life. Then again, a good friend would probably work just as well. For others, with more serious, chronic mental disorders, I believe that meds are more efficacious than gab. Talk therapy is not a panacea. It's a racket. Link to post Share on other sites
shamen Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Originally posted by blind_otter The therapist is a guide, not a cure-all. Their role is to be supportive, to listen, to help you have insights into your own behavior. Talking to regular folks can confound a problem - you can self-talk yourself in circles. Negative self-talk is a big part of depression. Greetings Immoralist (hey, new name Sinner! I've been away a while), I respectfully disagree with you that it's a racket. Friends can help sometimes, but don't always know how to help. See the above quote. Link to post Share on other sites
immoralist Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Hi shamen, welcome back! You're right. I don't know why I painted with such a broad brush. Talk therapy is not a "racket." I was much too overbroad, there. Like everything, talk therapy has its limitations, but with the right therapist, patient and problem set it can be efficacious. Stick around, shamen. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Originally posted by immoralist Good question, alpha. I've never had the pleasure of counseling (talk therapy) , but I suspect it would be helpful for basically healthy, bright, articulate people who are going through a bad spot in life. Then again, a good friend would probably work just as well. For others, with more serious, chronic mental disorders, I believe that meds are more efficacious than gab. Talk therapy is not a panacea. It's a racket. Actually, statistically (I can cite sources if necessary pm me for them) - a combination of talk therapy and medication therapy is usually more effective than just one or the other. I can't take SSRIs because of my seizure disorder, so medication is for the most part out of the question for me, so cognitive-behavioral talk therapy is my only treatment at this time. And I can honestly say I'm not a basically mentally healthy person going through a bad spot - I'm a mentally crippled individual who lacks basic coping skills to deal with everyday stressors. Link to post Share on other sites
immoralist Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 I'm a mentally crippled individual who lacks basic coping skills to deal with everyday stressors. Perhaps you are b_o, but your "mentally crippled" state is far from obvious from your lucid and well-written posts. And I believe you're absolutely correct in pointing out the obvious synergies involved with meds plus counseling. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Originally posted by immoralist Perhaps you are b_o, but your "mentally crippled" state is far from obvious from your lucid and well-written posts. And I believe you're absolutely correct in pointing out the obvious synergies involved with meds plus counseling. Thanks, immoralist. The thing about having any vague insight is that I am plagued with what I would deem to be a fairly and depressingly accurate mental representation of who I am because of the decisions I take responsibility for making. Sometimes when I review the litany of bad decisions I can only describe myself as insane. I prefer the term "emotionally random" hahaha. Link to post Share on other sites
newby Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 IMO reiki is a panacea Link to post Share on other sites
MassiveAtom Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Alpha, Like many who've posted here, I used to think therapy was a cop-out. I thought I would get psychoanalyzed and labelled faster than an ex-wife can go through your retirement account. BUT, I finally went. What it is, is a safe place to let down your guard. You can finally speak freely about all that stuff you have been carrying around. You can open up fully to yourself and settle the internal struggles that are latent in every one of us. I was surprised to find out just what the impact of my abusive childhood was, and what my other relationships did to me. It was a reall wake up call in every meaning of the phrase. The only labels I ever received were "Normal," "Sad," "Strong," and "courageous" Even when I was sitting across from a guy my age in tears, with my chest on fire, and my head hurting. Breakthroughs are exhilarating. And the Synergy of that plus personal work, is astounding. Once you get growing though, you never stop. So be warned. MA Link to post Share on other sites
Author alphamale Posted February 10, 2005 Author Share Posted February 10, 2005 Originally posted by MassiveAtom What it is, is a safe place to let down your guard. You can finally speak freely about all that stuff you have been carrying around. You can open up fully to yourself and settle the internal struggles that are latent in every one of us. I was surprised to find out just what the impact of my abusive childhood was, and what my other relationships did to me. It was a reall wake up call in every meaning of the phrase. yes, excellent points MA. since you are paying someone to basically hear your problems they must keep them confidential and you feel you're getting greater benefit cause your wallet is now $150 lighter. the old get what you pay for theorem. had your friend listened to you in the same way and you paid your friend nothing then you own percieved value is nothing. hmmmm....quite interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
tattoomytoe Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 no Alpha. your friends are usually biased, and everyone has their own warped visions of what reality is to them. A GOOD counselor/ therapist should not be biased, at least. and sometimes insurance will help foot the bill! Link to post Share on other sites
MassiveAtom Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale yes, excellent points MA. since you are paying someone to basically hear your problems they must keep them confidential and you feel you're getting greater benefit cause your wallet is now $150 lighter. the old get what you pay for theorem. Actually, I don't pay that much. And my sessions are what I make them. I consider my therapist as not only a trusted advisor, but also as a friend, a teammate, and a guide. I trust that he can always focus the discussions on me, because when it comes down to brass tacks, therapy is a guided discussion with yourself. It's really a relationship that's been with us forever. The "village advisors" didn't work for nothing, and the village elders were always compensated in some way. had your friend listened to you in the same way and you paid your friend nothing then you own percieved value is nothing. hmmmm....quite interesting. Actually, I have SOME friends, who when we get together we talk about things. I value their opinions immensely. But they are prone to supporting me in ways that MAY not be objective. Sometimes they even complicate matters- matters that are otherwise quickly and effectively simplified with my counsellor. To address your concern about my perception of value, which by the way is a HUGE assumption on your part, the "pay for service" aspect of the relationship inhibits a phenomenon known as enmeshment. It provides a very helpful boundary between client and counselor that effectively reduces (for emotionally healthy folks) the risk of that problem occurring. It has no bearing whatsoever on the value I find in my sessions. In contrast LoveShack is free, and the help and perspectives I've received here are worth FAR MORE than the $50.00 I've donated so far. It's sounds like you'll have to convince yourself of the value of counseling and therapy sessions. But if you realize the need for it in your life, take your time in selecting a provider who is experienced and capable, and matches what you're looking for to a "T." Link to post Share on other sites
Author alphamale Posted February 10, 2005 Author Share Posted February 10, 2005 Originally posted by MassiveAtom It's sounds like you'll have to convince yourself of the value of counseling and therapy sessions. But if you realize the need for it in your life, take your time in selecting a provider who is experienced and capable, and matches what you're looking for to a "T." no, you misunderstand MASSIVEATOM. i think therapy and counseling and shrinks are wonderful and do a great job. i was just trying to get opinions from other and their experiences. Link to post Share on other sites
RowanRavyn Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I was old school. You deal with your own ****e. You got yourself into a situation, you deal with it. If you need to talk you go to your pastor. The first time I met with a counselor, was when I went to shelter the first time. I was intimidated and not very open. I walked in her office, she handed me a soda, kicked off her shoes, put her feet up on her desk, urged me to do the same, and then carefully led me through the questionaire for intake. For the record I didn't go into shelter that time, but I did continue counseling. It was such a relief. I wasn't alone. My story was not that dissimilar to other womens, in fact there were many common threads. Having this person who would let me vent but come to my own conclusion was so beneficial. I was never ever pressured to leave, in fact after that first session when they offered to let me stay, it was never mentioned again, until I requested it. I had someone who was not spewing doctrine at me, who would let me ramble when I needed to, who offered suggestions when I asked, who would get on me when I needed it. ("I'm scared he will kill himself if I leave." "WHy are you scared of that?" "He told me he would, it will be my fault if he does." "What are you God thinking you have to fix the world. You can only fix you, young lady. Why is fixing him so much more valuable than fixing yourself?") It was very thought provoking. Because of the amount of time I spent in that marriage, I had to relearn everything, for acceptable boundaries, to supporting myself. Therapy helped me repair my self-esteem. When I left that shelter and moved out of state, I had to try on therapists until I found one that fit, group therapy was good because it was a practice of good boundaries, learning to communicate your ideas, dealing with everyday people. We also had a family therapist who would come to our apartment when the kids had to speak with their biological father on the phone. Because a lot of my therapy was through shelters it was free, but I also barted my office skills for sessions, and in turn volunteered as a peer counselor. Link to post Share on other sites
MassiveAtom Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Originally posted by alphamale no, you misunderstand MASSIVEATOM. Yeah, I do that all the time! Link to post Share on other sites
Groovy Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I have had counseling to get over hard things in my life....which we all have to do at some point. I don't want to burden my friends. I can talk about my bad day at work, or my stupid date, or hurting myself in sports. But how long can I talk about a family member who has threatened to kill me, tried to kill others, is in jail, is on suicide watch and hurts my parents. Do I really want to bring my baggage of being molested (actually raped due to age differences) by 2 men when I was 12 and are my friends or dates able to handle that? It would never be fair to drag them into these issues because these issues took years for me to get over and I have to take care of myself, not drop my issues into everyone's lap expecting to be mothered. I expect to be cared for and loved, understood and encouraged but have to allow it in way that is not demanding or imposing. That risk with a therapist is eliminated. Furthermore sometimes friends and family care too much to handle it effectively themselves. All my father wanted to do was kill the men who touched me if he had a chance to. If you need to talk to someone who is objective, standing out of it all and will listen for hours each week for years if need be then therapy is great. And let's face it, sometimes we may be afraid to share things with out friends, but a therapist is a safe place to let our problems out and turn them into something better. We are never judged as we sit there and speak. I am a huge fan of therapy, whether that person has a crisis or not all they have is to gain. We all have baggage and unhealed wounds. A good therapist will not just offer opinions like friends or family, but push that person in the direction to explore their own needs, feelings and answers. They won't replace friends or family or experiences in life that teach us, but they are another opportunity for us to grow. Link to post Share on other sites
startingover1028 Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 For me, therapy has simply been a sounding board from which I can re-frame my thoughts and hear my own voice, with a bit more clarity. I have the chance, each week, to talk about my feelings, desires, conflicts, problems and to have someone else re-state them to me in a way that helps me see them in a somewhat different light. I have yet to experience a grand or dramatic epiphany but I do find it helpful in re-framing my thoughts. It's comforting to know that there is someone with whom I can share my inner-most thoughts, fears and vulnerabilities and who will guard them and keep them confidential, without offering any personal prejudice, judgment or ridicule. It doesn't hurt that I'm told that I'm "OK" ... even when I don't feel so much so.... Link to post Share on other sites
moon Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 I think some therapists are better than others. I think some are true motivator and can really help you see where you were making mistakes and help you to move on from things. I don't necessarily think that the therapists who just sit back and listen are doing much for you. I mean if you don't have anyone to talk to then a therapist could be that person, but I think you need feed back. I've been in therapy for about three months. I have realized some things and I feel stronger for it, but therapy is by no means the cure all. You have to do a lot of personal mental work for things to turn around. Because therapy is only one hour a week. Link to post Share on other sites
newby Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 i believe that sometimes its not the best thing to bring your problems into your every day life as your every day life is the life you want to be living now, not tarnished anymore than neccesary with issues from past events or even current events sometimes. we have a lot of imput into our everyday lives and treating things as though they are fresh and new and as though you are fresh and new can be very beneficial therefore going to a therapist allows you to work through issues in a safe place that wont interfere with the rest of your life Link to post Share on other sites
Nine Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Hi Newby, That is a great perspective. Thanks for sharing. Nine Link to post Share on other sites
Author alphamale Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 Originally posted by moon I have realized some things and I feel stronger for it, but therapy is by no means the cure all. You have to do a lot of personal mental work for things to turn around. Because therapy is only one hour a week. Originally posted by newby we have a lot of imput into our everyday lives and treating things as though they are fresh and new and as though you are fresh and new can be very beneficial therefore going to a therapist allows you to work through issues in a safe place that wont interfere with the rest of your life both excellent points MOON and NEWBY Link to post Share on other sites
newby Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 i have never actually been to counselling as such, however i have learnt over the years the value of treating life as you want life to be, i.e not bringing your baggage into everything and dealing with it elsewhere, sometimes alone or through alternative healing etc, having said that, sometimes airing something recent with a good friend really helps Link to post Share on other sites
snarky Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I haven't read all the responses to the original question but thought I'd throw my two cents in anyway.... I posted earlier today about my boyfriend going seeing a counselor to deal with issues left over from growing up in a pretty dysfunctional and distant family. I can tell you that he has been going for five months now and it has made all the difference in the world in his life. He has a long way to go, but he is starting to see things much much more clearly these days.... and its been a really cool evolution to watch. Note that I had urged him to talk to someone for several years and he only went after the sh*t literally hit the fan.... fortunately, the day I had to make an ultimatum was also the day that HE realized on his own that he really really needed some help. He was nervous and scared but went, for the most part, willingly. I can tell you (much as I hate to say this) that we wouldn't be together now if he hadn't gone... and we have an AMAZING relationship these days. Is it the answer for everyone? I'm not sure. I know that it was the answer for him and I know that the few times I have been to work out some problems I was having, it definitly helped me. I think talking to a neutral person who is trained to ask all the right questions can be infinitely valuable if you are stuck at an impass in your life ... and even if you're not. People are far too reluctant to seek help. Link to post Share on other sites
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