"I will never be involved in an affair"

[Hope Shimmers]

This is something I read in another thread and wanted to explore further. Mostly because it's something I always said too - yet I ended up in one.

 

Too, there seem to be quite a few BS's who say they will "never be involved in an affair" yet they end up doing so after being betrayed. I can remember reading posts from many of them. I remember reading many times "I never thought I would do this, especially after having gone through it". Yet they do.

 

I wonder if it is a situation that people simplify because they haven't walked a mile in that person's shoes. As an example, I am technically a BS in that my H cheated on me but only after I had already decided to divorce. Yes it hurt, but it was nothing remotely comparable to the hurt that resulted from the A later.

 

I have always said that I cannot understand how a BS could take a WS back after the cheating was revealed - especially if the D-day resulted from discovery of evidence by the BS. I have always said I would NEVER do it if I were them. But I see posts from BS's who said the same thing - they said they would never do it, but they ended up reconciling. To me that says that there are far more complicating things involved in these A's (on both sides) than we may take into account at the time, before we have "walked in those shoes" so to speak.

 

So I concede that if I had been in the position of many BS's here, maybe I would think differently as many of them have. I think that the same applies to being in an A, for many people. So, can we agree that unless we have been in that particular situation, we can't really judge?

[purplesorrow]

This is something I read in another thread and wanted to explore further. Mostly because it's something I always said too - yet I ended up in one.

 

Too, there seem to be quite a few BS's who say they will "never be involved in an affair" yet they end up doing so after being betrayed. I can remember reading posts from many of them. I remember reading many times "I never thought I would do this, especially after having gone through it". Yet they do.

 

I wonder if it is a situation that people simplify because they haven't walked a mile in that person's shoes. As an example, I am technically a BS in that my H cheated on me but only after I had already decided to divorce. Yes it hurt, but it was nothing remotely comparable to the hurt that resulted from the A later.

 

I have always said that I cannot understand how a BS could take a WS back after the cheating was revealed - especially if the D-day resulted from discovery of evidence by the BS. I have always said I would NEVER do it if I were them. But I see posts from BS's who said the same thing - they said they would never do it, but they ended up reconciling. To me that says that there are far more complicating things involved in these A's (on both sides) than we may take into account at the time, before we have "walked in those shoes" so to speak.

 

So I concede that if I had been in the position of many BS's here, maybe I would think differently as many of them have. I think that the same applies to being in an A, for many people. So, can we agree that unless we have been in that particular situation, we can't really judge?

Meaning that an affair is neither right nor wrong?

[BHsigh]

I can state as an absolute fact that I will never cheat, and further more that it is impossible for me to cheat, I had considered a revenge affair, I've been hit on during rough patches in a relationship. When it mattered, I left my gf to pursue someone that would have given me easy sex, and did once I was single.

 

The question is, why is this important to you? Don't judge yourself based on what others can or can't do, or what they will or won't do. Judge yourself based on your own ability to learn and grow. Just because I will never have an affair doesn't make you a bad person, it's just because I'm highly obsessive, and all my screw ups, along with everyone else's (that are close to me anyways) will stick in head forever.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I am not sure if the act of forgiving someone is the same as betraying someone.

 

Without personal boundaries and self awareness I believe we all are vulnerable to affairs.

 

Having said that, I also believe that there are people who have a strong sense of self (who do have those boundaries in place) that would never engage in an affair because they could not bear what it would say about them. Their ego would be the deterrent in those folks.

[Hope Shimmers]

I can state as an absolute fact that I will never cheat, and further more that it is impossible for me to cheat, I had considered a revenge affair, I've been hit on during rough patches in a relationship. When it mattered, I left my gf to pursue someone that would have given me easy sex, and did once I was single.

 

The question is, why is this important to you? Don't judge yourself based on what others can or can't do, or what they will or won't do. Judge yourself based on your own ability to learn and grow. Just because I will never have an affair doesn't make you a bad person, it's just because I'm highly obsessive, and all my screw ups, along with everyone else's (that are close to me anyways) will stick in head forever.

 

I have been in a position to cheat MANY times too (and was in an abusive marriage for 16 years) but never did it. I would have said it was an 'absolute fact that I would not cheat' and I DID say that many times. But I ended up in an A.... after my divorce.... I thought he was separated and divorcing, but it took me most of my 40's to get out of it in the long run. I would have NEVER... EVER thought myself possible of it. I thought I was dating a man who was essentially single. I just got completely sucked in and lost myself. I think that is something that I hear from OW that I don't think the BS can understand. I don't even understand it.

 

Why is it important to me? Why are any of these questions asked here important to anyone? It's important to me because I think many people see affairs as completely black and white and I see posts all the time that talk about how people involved in affairs are liars and horrible people. I don't think it's fair to many who post here trying to get support. That's why it's important to me.

[Hope Shimmers]

Meaning that an affair is neither right nor wrong?

 

An affair is never right. Please don't put words in my mouth.

[Hope Shimmers]

I am not sure if the act of forgiving someone is the same as betraying someone.

 

I don't really understand that, since you are forgiving a betrayal if you R with a 'cheater'.

 

Without personal boundaries and self awareness I believe we all are vulnerable to affairs.

 

I agree. I just wonder where the personal boundaries and self-awareness go when the BS ends up ultimately in an A (for those who do). I would think that after having lived it, there would be ultimate attention to personal boundaries and self-awareness, but that isn't true in many cases. So it's more complicated than that, isn't it? The same for others that get involved in an A on all levels.

 

Having said that, I also believe that there are people who have a strong sense of self (who do have those boundaries in place) that would never engage in an affair because they could not bear what it would say about them. Their ego would be the deterrent in those folks.

 

Many people have said that - including myself - and meant it to the death. But again... many have said the same and found themselves in this situation. It isn't always ultimately about ego and reputation.

[snappytomcat]

I can also say this I would never,ever cheat that's just not me,before dday I was very unhappy in my marriage too,and asked hubby to go to mc,what was wrong?he said nothings wrong,my job is stressing me out,but his attitude,was stressing me out.

its very frustrating when I knew something was going on,and he would deny,and said we were fine.

was I lonely yes,did I fantasize about cheating,maybe a little bit,did I have opportunity I sure did,and guess what I didn't cheat,i wont ever.

and the reason I decided to reconcile,well we had lots of history,and we love each other,and that's all anyone needs to know.

I know most ow ask that question,why do some bs stay?its really nobody business,but the 2 that decide to work things out

[Hope Shimmers]

I can also say this I would never,ever cheat that's just not me,before dday I was very unhappy in my marriage too,and asked hubby to go to mc,what was wrong?he said nothings wrong,my job is stressing me out,but his attitude,was stressing me out.

its very frustrating when I knew something was going on,and he would deny,and said we were fine.

was I lonely yes,did I fantasize about cheating,maybe a little bit,did I have opportunity I sure did,and guess what I didn't cheat,i wont ever.

and the reason I decided to reconcile,well we had lots of history,and we love each other,and that's all anyone needs to know.

I know most ow ask that question,why do some bs stay?its really nobody business,but the 2 that decide to work things out

 

I said that too. I would never, ever cheat. It's just not me. And what about the BS's that do it after saying they would never do it having known how painful it is? How are they different, is my question. I know you say you would 'never, ever' do something but others have said the same, even after experiencing the ultimate pain of it, and then did it. So what does that mean?

[Furious]

I don't worry about being judged by others. I guess that's because I'm my most vocal critic. I live my life and treat others as I hope to be treated.

 

I think those that don't want to be judged are those who don't practice what they preach.

 

I believe everyone has the right to their own free will as long as it isn't at the cost of denying someone else's free will.

 

I also believe in forgiveness and that everyone who has made mistakes in their past are not defined by them if they've grown and become the man or woman they hope to be.

 

I think all kinds of cheating is wrong.

 

Cheating a friend.

Cheating on a spouse.

Being an accessory to cheating.

Cheating a business partner.

Cheating on an exam.

Cheating investors.

Cheating in sports.

Etc.......

 

Is that a judgement or is it ethics?

 

I doubt there's a single person on this planet who would think that being cheated on is a good thing.

 

 

The thing is, ethics is also about forgiveness, redemption and opportunity to move forward from past mistakes.

 

The rain is wet...but who am I to judge.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Furious

[Hope Shimmers]

I don't worry about being judged by others. I guess that's because I'm my most vocal critic. I live my life and treat others as I hope to be treated.

 

I think those that don't want to be judged are those who don't practice what they preach.

 

I believe everyone has the right to their own free will as long as it isn't at the cost of denying someone else's free will.

 

I also believe in forgiveness and that everyone who has made mistakes in their past are not defined by them if they've grown and become the man or woman they hope to be.

 

I think all kinds of cheating is wrong.

 

Cheating a friend.

Cheating on a spouse.

Being an accessory to cheating.

Cheating a business partner.

Cheating on an exam.

Cheating investors.

Cheating in sports.

Etc.......

 

Is that a judgement or is it ethics.

 

I doubt there's a single person on this planet who would think that being cheated on is a good thing.

 

 

The thing is, ethics is also about forgiveness, redemption and opportunity to move forward from past mistakes.

 

The rain is wet...but who am I to judge.

 

Furious... I never said or even insinuated that being cheated on is a good thing. It's a horrible thing.

 

What I am trying to do here is absolve the notion that many BS's have, that people involved in A's are people who set out to destroy families, etc. for their own gain. As such, I was comparing it to BS's who decided to R with their WS even though they said they would never do such a thing. It must be complicated (maybe even on all ends!), right?

[purplesorrow]

I don't worry about being judged by others. I guess that's because I'm my most vocal critic. I live my life and treat others as I hope to be treated.

 

I think those that don't want to be judged are those who don't practice what they preach.

 

I believe everyone has the right to their own free will as long as it isn't at the cost of denying someone else's free will.

 

I also believe in forgiveness and that everyone who has made mistakes in their past are not defined by them if they've grown and become the man or woman they hope to be.

 

I think all kinds of cheating is wrong.

 

Cheating a friend.

Cheating on a spouse.

Being an accessory to cheating.

Cheating a business partner.

Cheating on an exam.

Cheating investors.

Cheating in sports.

Etc.......

 

Is that a judgement or is it ethics?

 

I doubt there's a single person on this planet who would think that being cheated on is a good thing.

 

 

The thing is, ethics is also about forgiveness, redemption and opportunity to move forward from past mistakes.

 

The rain is wet...but who am I to judge.

Forgiveness and redemption....I'm slowly moving there. It seems to be getting easier the closer my file date comes. Maybe my heart is softening?

[DKT3]

I'm not buying. Getting involved in an affair is a choice. They never just happen. My choice is to never get involved.

 

Shortly after I found out about my exWW I made a choice to communicate with a married woman that I knew was interested in me. Had coffee talked she flirted, a lot. She gave me her number and asked me to text her.

 

Then guess what happened? I chose not to. There was always an attraction, a strong connection which is why I avoided her. I was interested in learning more about her and she about me. I knew what the likely end game would be and my choice was to stay faithful. After the exWW A I thought maybe my mindset was different. It wasn't.

 

Choice, we all have it. Some take the selfish route and the choice is to put their lust for another above the loyalty to their spouse. Other make the choice to stay faithful. Its not out of ones control to stay out of an affair as a WS or a OW/M. All of this "it just happened" or "I wasn't looking for it" is all bull. People know when they cross a small line its wrong, yet they cross another and another until there is none left. That is choice, so yes WS's and OM/W's did go looking for affairs. Its hard to admit I would imagine, but its sooo very true.

[Striver]

I've never cheated, but I'm realistic that I could do it. Hopefully when I'm old I can look back and say I never did. We'll see.

 

Everyone should be vigilant about their own cheating even if they've never done it. Cheating is selfish and hurtful. Maybe everyone should enter Cheaters Anonymous when they enter their first relationship!

 

The BS to WS "conversions" are distressing. It would be better if we could see infidelity as the weakness of our partners and not take it personally. But hey, I avoided relationships for many years because of how someone hurt me when I was very young. So people take things personally.

 

Especially when we marry, we commit to the marriage itself, not simply our partner. Even the best partners can change and have erratic moments, so we need to look past that when possible. Of course, this can be a lonely process when one partner has abandoned all efforts towards the marriage.

[underwater2010]

I will NEVER cheat. Especially after the pain of the first hand experience as a BS and watching my husband suffer as the WS. I also reserve the right to judge those that KNOWINGLY engage in an affair regardless of their position be it WS or AP.

 

I don't actually have to walk a mile in your shoes....see I have empathy for those that are in pain. I can mentally put myself there without experiencing the pain first hand. Maybe that is why an affair would never set well with me. And just maybe that is something that people engaging in affairs cannot do.

[DKT3]

I've never cheated, but I'm realistic that I could do it. Hopefully when I'm old I can look back and say I never did. We'll see.

 

Everyone should be vigilant about their own cheating even if they've never done it. Cheating is selfish and hurtful. Maybe everyone should enter Cheaters Anonymous when they enter their first relationship!

 

The BS to WS "conversions" are distressing. It would be better if we could see infidelity as the weakness of our partners and not take it personally. But hey, I avoided relationships for many years because of how someone hurt me when I was very young. So people take things personally.

 

Especially when we marry, we commit to the marriage itself, not simply our partner. Even the best partners can change and have erratic moments, so we need to look past that when possible. Of course, this can be a lonely process when one partner has abandoned all efforts towards the marriage.

 

But its sooo very personal. For most to engage in an affair they must first demonize the spouse while putting the AP amoung the stars. Need proof, find some wayward wives here and follow their stories over the months and years. So often they start out saying "my BS is a good guy that doesn't deserve this and I have no plans to leave" then as time pass its "our marriage has been bad for a long time I should have left years ago"

 

They do so much damage to the marriage mentally by making things that weren't really issues pre A to things worth leaving the marriage for.

 

Then there is the AP who is the greatest thing ever, so understanding, so willing to let them be themselves, soo trusting. Forgetting that he is cheating on his wife with a married woman. Stealing time away from his wife and kids not to mention money.

 

Funny how that works, the loyal guy that was there when things were bad is nothing and the guy that's there for sex in the parking lot is everything.

 

Its personal

[purplesorrow]

An affair is never right. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

I didn't, that was a question. I was trying to get the gist of your post.

[Eternal Sunshine]

It comes down to knowing yourself. This is something I feel very strongly about.

 

I will never be involved with a taken man.

 

I will never cheat on a SO.

 

I will never stay with a cheater.

 

Signed in blood

[notserene]

But its sooo very personal. For most to engage in an affair they must first demonize the spouse while putting the AP amoung the stars. Need proof, find some wayward wives here and follow their stories over the months and years. So often they start out saying "my BS is a good guy that doesn't deserve this and I have no plans to leave" then as time pass its "our marriage has been bad for a long time I should have left years ago"

 

They do so much damage to the marriage mentally by making things that weren't really issues pre A to things worth leaving the marriage for.

 

Then there is the AP who is the greatest thing ever, so understanding, so willing to let them be themselves, soo trusting. Forgetting that he is cheating on his wife with a married woman. Stealing time away from his wife and kids not to mention money.

 

Funny how that works, the loyal guy that was there when things were bad is nothing and the guy that's there for sex in the parking lot is everything.

 

Its personal

 

I think this is very well stated.

 

You have to have someone who can get themselves into a frame of mind where what they are doing is "right." Some people can't get themselves there, or they talk themselves right back out of it. I think people who cheat really believe their own self-delusion. From the outside it looks like a kind of insanity - not one that absolves them of responsibility, of course.

[MissBee]

I don't really understand how someone saying they would never have an affair means they are judging those who have.

 

I think that no one "ends up" in an affair but several choices are made that lead you there.

 

I think that we sometimes end up making poor choices and for those who never thought they'd be in an affair but "end up in one", they didn't just kind of passively end up there. It's not like cancer or something where you never think it will happen to you and all of a sudden without you doing anything you get it....you either ignore certain things or consciously make certain choices and that's how you end up doing what you never thought you would.

 

In any event I do think it's at least good for people to have some sense of things they don't want to do or wouldn't do than being of the mind that "maybe I'll have an affair, maybe I won't" and I also realize that consciously making the effort not to do something is different than just thinking you never will do it. Most of us who have been in affairs didn't end up there kicking and screaming....we went with the flow so to speak and I do think it's possible to patently avoid it and run for the hills from it. But I do get you HS...people can be fickle at times and we're all capable in the sense of being imperfect, but I guess some people have a more lax attitude about it while others are more conscientious.

[Quiet Storm]

I know I will never cheat. Just like I know I will never rob a bank, beat up an old lady, throw trash in my neighbors yard, smoke crack, etc.

 

If my husband cheated, I can't imagine that my integrity would go out the window. That's just not how I operate. I would be devastated, but I would never see my own pain as a reason to cheat and jeopardize another family.

 

If he was unfaithful, as long as he was remorseful, stopped cheating and got therapy- I would try to save my marriage. I would question his character, but if he worked to address his flaws, I'd do my best to forgive him. I value our life together, and he has been a faithful and loving husband for many years. We have a lot invested in our family and want our kids to have an intact family because we believe it provides them with the best environment to thrive and grow.

[Quiet Storm]

But its sooo very personal. For most to engage in an affair they must first demonize the spouse while putting the AP amoung the stars. Need proof, find some wayward wives here and follow their stories over the months and years. So often they start out saying "my BS is a good guy that doesn't deserve this and I have no plans to leave" then as time pass its "our marriage has been bad for a long time I should have left years ago"

 

They do so much damage to the marriage mentally by making things that weren't really issues pre A to things worth leaving the marriage for.

 

Then there is the AP who is the greatest thing ever, so understanding, so willing to let them be themselves, soo trusting. Forgetting that he is cheating on his wife with a married woman. Stealing time away from his wife and kids not to mention money.

 

Funny how that works, the loyal guy that was there when things were bad is nothing and the guy that's there for sex in the parking lot is everything.

 

Its personal

 

It depends on how you view it. Some people view affairs as an addiction and don't take it personally. An addict will lie and steal from their mother- not because they hate her, but because they are weak and selfish. Addicts will look back on their actions toward their spouse and family with shame. I think some WS do the same. The affair is often manifestation of the WS's issues, and BS and others hurt are the collateral damage. It is still a betrayal, but WS is also betraying themselves with their poor choices. Some BS can see this and not take it personally.

[HermioneG]

I will never cheat. I will never steal. I will never break into the White House at 3am to take a selfie with the President.

 

Some people know where their limits are, what their standards are, and their boundaries are rock solid.

 

That's not an offensive position. It's a reflection of self. It's a reflection of 40+ years on the planet.

 

Do I judge those who do cheat? Yes. But I don't find judgment to be a bad thing. Judgment is what I use to navigate the world and make good decisions based on the interactions I have with others.

 

Will I walk up and lecture someone acting differently than I would, but I would make decisions about my interaction.

 

And that's okay. When you make a decision that is predicated upon harming others ( and infidelity falls in that category), there are consequences. If you do not care for those, maybe don't do those things.

[blueskyday]

Some people become the thing that hurt them. They have an affair after being cheated on, perhaps to regain control in a powerless situation. It's wrong, of course.

 

An affair and unproductive selfish behavior is based on excuses and justifications to do " the wrong thing." It's quite simple to avoid affairs and such by not allowing your feelings to define your behavior.

 

Being a good person is a decision. No matter my circumstances, I do the right thing. Period.

 

I've never had an affair. Never gone after a man in a relationship. Never stayed with a cheater. Never helped a friend cheat. It's black and white in my mind. That's what keeps me safe. I don't delude myself by giving myself An excuse to do the wrong thing.

 

And I have no patience for those who do.

Edited April 26, 2014 by blueskyday

[Striver]

But its sooo very personal. For most to engage in an affair they must first demonize the spouse while putting the AP amoung the stars. Need proof, find some wayward wives here and follow their stories over the months and years. So often they start out saying "my BS is a good guy that doesn't deserve this and I have no plans to leave" then as time pass its "our marriage has been bad for a long time I should have left years ago"

 

They do so much damage to the marriage mentally by making things that weren't really issues pre A to things worth leaving the marriage for.

 

Then there is the AP who is the greatest thing ever, so understanding, so willing to let them be themselves, soo trusting. Forgetting that he is cheating on his wife with a married woman. Stealing time away from his wife and kids not to mention money.

 

Funny how that works, the loyal guy that was there when things were bad is nothing and the guy that's there for sex in the parking lot is everything.

 

Its personal

 

You're so right about how those stories go, I've read them.

 

As far as BS to WS conversions go: Almost everybody has been dumped at some point, if only in a dating context. Most people don't want to be dumped by SO after SO. So SO #1 dumps me, I am hurt, I find SO #2, they are interested in me, I dump them to even the score, then I'm ready to take on SO #3 on equal terms.

 

I dumped people and was dumped (short term situations only though.) The first time I dumped someone I didn't handle it the best, so I handled it much more kindly the next time. And one time I was dumped I'm almost sure the main reason was that she'd had a bad experience with her last boyfriend.

 

So the BS faces a lot of hurt, rejection, and loss of self esteem as a result of the A. All sorts of emotions. With the volume of emotions in a true A, the response of the BS can be unpredictable. So the A happens, there's a reconciliation or separation. The BS is dealing with other emotions for a long time in either case. Then the other emotions dissipate and the urge to cheat to even the score appears. So there's a revenge affair or the BS cheats on their next partner.

 

As others have pointed out, the best way to avoid doing this is to externalize the cheating partner's behavior from your own self esteem. If the A is 100% their fault, then by logic it should not be any reflection on the loyal partner. It is just a flaw of the WS. Easier said than done, though. Most people are hurt and suffer loss of self esteem.