"I will never be involved in an affair"

[gettingstronger]

To answer the question posed above about if my husband is a bad person- I can say without a doubt that during his affair he was a horrible person and he would agree- its hard for him to cope with who he was at that time-its hard for me to imagine that he allowed himself to be that person-

 

I do however believe in redemption and that is the starting point for forgiveness-

[Quiet Storm]

I say i cant. You don't need to distance yourself from situations when your not tempted!!

 

I am one who also believes I will never cheat, but that does not stop me from having strong boundaries and distancing myself from situations.

 

IMO, it is easy for women stay out of an affair if you simply decide not to engage with other men (if you are married) or married men (if you are single). Many men (married & single) have tried to flirt with me over the years, and I make it clear through my body language, lack of eye contact and my short/curt responses that I am not interested. And I will watch these same men move on to the next chick, who will thank him for his compliments, engage in conversation, laugh at his jokes, give him lots of eye contact, etc. It's all about boundaries. The woman that engages will eventually say "It just happened" because she doesn't see how she fed her attraction to him by engaging.

 

I don't even accept PM's here at loveshack because men will flirt with me. My husband is fine with me posting advice & feedback, but he isn't cool with private messages. That is a boundary that my husband and I have agreed upon. Not because I don't trust myself, I just don't want the aggravation of dealing with it.

 

As a married person, I never put myself in any situations with someone of the opposite sex where I could ever be in any kind of "gray area". I consider my marriage as something that should be respected & protected. I always have that in the forefront of my mind when interacting with other men, so flirting back isn't even an option with me. I just don't go there.

 

There is a saying that I often say- "Hurt people, hurt people". The long version is "Hurt people that are unable to cope with their pain, hurt people". People who have good coping skills, impulse control, a good sense of self worth can overcome a betrayal without making unhealthy choices. We see it a lot here on LS.

 

Hurt people, hurt people. We could also apply that to pedophiles. Although certainly a different breed than cheaters, what is interesting is that pedophile's often claim a "gray area". Most were sexually abused themselves as children, and never got proper treatment to deal with their own victimization. Some were so abused and neglected that they felt the sexual attention was "love", and genuinely see their sexual attraction towards kids as "love" (because that is all they knew). I call this an explanation, not a "gray area". It gives us insight as to how the child molester came to be, instead of just labeling him "evil". However, it does not excuse the act, nor does it diminish the pain he causes to his victims.

 

Infidelity is similar. Hurt people, hurt people. Do explanations create a "gray area" that excuses the deed? I don't think so. Explanations give us insight into how a cheater becomes a cheater and how an OW becomes an OW. A BS in a lot of pain, who doesn't know how to cope, who internalizes the betrayal and blames herself -who feels as if no one would want her, becomes vulnerable. She doesn't have the skills to cope or the self worth to realize it was about the cheater. If she also has poor boundaries, it is easy to see how an affair could happen. As with the child molester scenario above, I think this is simply an explanation, not a "gray area". It gives us insight into why the BS/OW chose her path, but is not an excuse, and it certainly does not diminish the pain the cheater's wife/family feel.

 

Most cheaters and current OW, whether they are formerly BS or not, do have issues. This DOES NOT mean they are bad people, but they could certainly do some work on themselves to improve. Their choices are related to issues within themselves, although many are not self aware enough to see it. They will see our observations about their coping skills, or impulse control, poor boundaries or low self worth as insults & criticism. (They think I'm a bad person!!!).

 

Our advice will be immediately discarded as "not applying to them" because these people who have made poor choices, tolerate poor treatment from others, blame others for their problems, engage in "close friendships" with married men are such well rounded, confident, emotionally healthy individuals with no issues.

 

We all make mistakes, but just calling it a "mistake" and not doing the work to find what issues within us led us down that path is shortsighted, IMO. Coming from dysfunctional families (me), never being given the tools to cope, having poor models for relationships, never learning proper boundaries does NOT mean we are bad. It just means that we were never given the tools required to make good choices for ourselves, and that sense of worthiness was never instilled in us. We are not bad, we were robbed. Robbed of the upbringing that is supposed to teach us these things. We do not have to be a product of our environment forever, though. We can acknowledge our flaws, educate ourselves and evolve.

[Charlie Harper]

I can see this as well. For 30+ years I lived with integrity, and then when things that should not have been the way they were stayed that way, instead of making the hard choice to draw a line in the sand and leave if necessary, I chose what was weak and cowardly. When I was 30, I was unhappy but still strong. When I was 32, I was unhappy but still strong. By the time I was around 35, I was unhappy and TIRED. THAT should have let me know that it was time to get out. But instead I stayed and got even MORE resentful and unhappy. And I allowed myself to choose what was absolutely wrong and something I never ever in my entire growing up and adult life thought I would have to worry about doing.

 

In fact, even as I knew how vulnerable my feelings were, I told myself, "It's fine to enjoy these compliments. After all, I'm a good Christian who knows the Bible and was a virgin when I married I'D never cheat!"

 

Two of my flaws were not listening to the signals that I was vulnerable and wide open, and assuming that I was way above such behavior. I had others, obviously, but those two (especially the second) were the most insidious because they "appeared" to be noble.

 

I know now. I know I am a human being. And because I know that and accept that, I can take steps to prevent getting anywhere near that choice again. Had I not been so naive and prideful, I likely would have avoided it altogether.

 

One of the things that most NON SERIAL cheater speak in therapy is the "it just happened syndrome" I used to think people were weak, selfish and had low boundaries/selfsteem... Sometimes and affair (and I am thinking emotional not sex related) is going on and you don't know for sure how deep you are in it.... you may not even hold hands, but there is a connection, and then by the time you figure out you are attached to somebody you JUST like...its way too late...

 

If it was so easy as to be black and white LoveShack would not be filled with people who cheated filled with remorse and saying I feel so bad about it but when I realized I was in an A it was too late and I never planed or intended....

 

My point is be careful when you point fingers, and never say never...

[purplesorrow]

One of the things that most NON SERIAL cheater speak in therapy is the "it just happened syndrome" I used to think people were weak, selfish and had low boundaries/selfsteem... Sometimes and affair (and I am thinking emotional not sex related) is going on and you don't know for sure how deep you are in it.... you may not even hold hands, but there is a connection, and then by the time you figure out you are attached to somebody you JUST like...its way too late...

 

If it was so easy as to be black and white LoveShack would not be filled with people who cheated filled with remorse and saying I feel so bad about it but when I realized I was in an A it was too late and I never planed or intended....

 

My point is be careful when you point fingers, and never say never...

Saying never is not the same as pointing fingers. Proof of my husbands affair caused me to hit an all time low in my life. In coping, I tightened boundaries to insure I wouldn't do something I would regret. I think having an affair is black and white, how you got yourself to that point may not be. There wouldn't be the remorse you speak of if folks didn't feel it was wrong.

[Shepp]

I'm not saying it makes anyone 'bad'. All i'm saying is that I, me personally, I don't understand it.

 

Infidelity is similar. Hurt people, hurt people. Do explanations create a "gray area" that excuses the deed? I don't think so. Explanations give us insight into how a cheater becomes a cheater and how an OW becomes an OW. A BS in a lot of pain, who doesn't know how to cope, who internalizes the betrayal and blames herself -who feels as if no one would want her, becomes vulnerable. She doesn't have the skills to cope or the self worth to realize it was about the cheater. If she also has poor boundaries, it is easy to see how an affair could happen

I just don't see it? Great reason to leave a relationship yeah, I don't get it being a reason for cheating.

 

Not trying to be like a jerk about it, I just don't comprehend.

 

 

We all make mistakes, but just calling it a "mistake" and not doing the work to find what issues within us led us down that path is shortsighted, IMO. Coming from dysfunctional families (me), never being given the tools to cope, having poor models for relationships, never learning proper boundaries does NOT mean we are bad. It just means that we were never given the tools required to make good choices for ourselves, and that sense of worthiness was never instilled in us. We are not bad, we were robbed. Robbed of the upbringing that is supposed to teach us these things. We do not have to be a product of our environment forever, though. We can acknowledge our flaws, educate ourselves and evolve.

Of course everyone has flaws and makes mistakes whatever there upbringing!! I've made enough! Everyone has different flaws and makes different mistakes, that's life.

[DKT3]

One of the things that most NON SERIAL cheater speak in therapy is the "it just happened syndrome" I used to think people were weak, selfish and had low boundaries/selfsteem... Sometimes and affair (and I am thinking emotional not sex related) is going on and you don't know for sure how deep you are in it.... you may not even hold hands, but there is a connection, and then by the time you figure out you are attached to somebody you JUST like...its way too late...

 

If it was so easy as to be black and white LoveShack would not be filled with people who cheated filled with remorse and saying I feel so bad about it but when I realized I was in an A it was too late and I never planed or intended....

 

My point is be careful when you point fingers, and never say never...

charlie, the how I never intended or planed stance is weak and a way of not taking ownership of ones own s**t.

 

You don't just walk up to some one and fall into an affair. Its more like you come up to a mile long hallway filled with 100 doors. At each door you have to choice to open it and walk through. At the other end is a full blown affair. Getting there is on purpose and truely ones intent. Those people are seeking something so they keep making the chioce to go through the doors one after another until none are left, all the while saying its not so bad as they pass. Once they have gotten through the 100 doors its pretty hard to say the end wasn't the what was intended why else would you open the doors if you weren't after what was on the other side?

[Charlie Harper]

charlie, the how I never intended or planed stance is weak and a way of not taking ownership of ones own s**t.

 

You don't just walk up to some one and fall into an affair. Its more like you come up to a mile long hallway filled with 100 doors. At each door you have to choice to open it and walk through. At the other end is a full blown affair. Getting there is on purpose and truely ones intent. Those people are seeking something so they keep making the chioce to go through the doors one after another until none are left, all the while saying its not so bad as they pass. Once they have gotten through the 100 doors its pretty hard to say the end wasn't the what was intended why else would you open the doors if you weren't after what was on the other side?

 

I understand and I agree that its a choice, btw don't think I am defending that way I know its wrong, but the situations that may make it happen are so different, Il l give you an example, Lets say you have a very close connection and friendship with a woman who is not your wife, that relationship is 30 year in span.... and yes you might have opened 40 of the 100 doors and that won't have an affair but then you meet someone and by door 4 you are in an Affair, you never had a large buildup, some markers you knew were wrong etc.... the point here is that not everyone goes through phases and see the possibility from a distance, sometimes is something so fast and unexpected, that by the time you realize it, you are emotionally attached. (and yes I think becoming emotionally attached to somebody is actually worse than a ONS just for the sex and experimentation)

[seren]

I know me, I know what I value for myself and I can say with absolute conviction I will never have an A. The reason is very simple, I could never knowingly share the person. I love with another. I value me too much. When H told me of his A, I made an informed choice to reconcile it has worked and we are happy. It all boils down to choices and I wouldn't choose to wait while someone decided to wait for whatever before being with me, nor would I be content to be a secret. Nothing could persuade me otherwise.

[Hope Shimmers]

I know me, I know what I value for myself and I can say with absolute conviction I will never have an A. The reason is very simple, I could never knowingly share the person. I love with another. I value me too much.

 

I said the same thing. With absolute conviction. And completely (rudely) shut down anyone who flirted while I was still married.

 

Things change though. What happens if your husband died or left you and you suddenly found yourself in a dating situation with a man who lied to you about being married for months on end? Or he was legally divorced but ended up going back to his wife?

 

I can tell you from experience that there are MANY, MANY men out there (especially on dating sites, but not just restricted to there) who are married and lie about it. I even ended up dating one a few months ago two or three times until I met he and his wife in a retail store and found out otherwise.

[Hope Shimmers]

I know me, I know what I value for myself and I can say with absolute conviction I will never have an A. The reason is very simple, I could never knowingly share the person. I love with another. I value me too much.

 

I meant legally separated, not legally divorced.

[HermioneG]

I am one who also believes I will never cheat, but that does not stop me from having strong boundaries and distancing myself from situations.

 

IMO, it is easy for women stay out of an affair if you simply decide not to engage with other men (if you are married) or married men (if you are single). Many men (married & single) have tried to flirt with me over the years, and I make it clear through my body language, lack of eye contact and my short/curt responses that I am not interested. And I will watch these same men move on to the next chick, who will thank him for his compliments, engage in conversation, laugh at his jokes, give him lots of eye contact, etc. It's all about boundaries. The woman that engages will eventually say "It just happened" because she doesn't see how she fed her attraction to him by engaging.

 

I don't even accept PM's here at loveshack because men will flirt with me. My husband is fine with me posting advice & feedback, but he isn't cool with private messages. That is a boundary that my husband and I have agreed upon. Not because I don't trust myself, I just don't want the aggravation of dealing with it.

 

As a married person, I never put myself in any situations with someone of the opposite sex where I could ever be in any kind of "gray area". I consider my marriage as something that should be respected & protected. I always have that in the forefront of my mind when interacting with other men, so flirting back isn't even an option with me. I just don't go there.

 

There is a saying that I often say- "Hurt people, hurt people". The long version is "Hurt people that are unable to cope with their pain, hurt people". People who have good coping skills, impulse control, a good sense of self worth can overcome a betrayal without making unhealthy choices. We see it a lot here on LS.

 

Hurt people, hurt people. We could also apply that to pedophiles. Although certainly a different breed than cheaters, what is interesting is that pedophile's often claim a "gray area". Most were sexually abused themselves as children, and never got proper treatment to deal with their own victimization. Some were so abused and neglected that they felt the sexual attention was "love", and genuinely see their sexual attraction towards kids as "love" (because that is all they knew). I call this an explanation, not a "gray area". It gives us insight as to how the child molester came to be, instead of just labeling him "evil". However, it does not excuse the act, nor does it diminish the pain he causes to his victims.

 

Infidelity is similar. Hurt people, hurt people. Do explanations create a "gray area" that excuses the deed? I don't think so. Explanations give us insight into how a cheater becomes a cheater and how an OW becomes an OW. A BS in a lot of pain, who doesn't know how to cope, who internalizes the betrayal and blames herself -who feels as if no one would want her, becomes vulnerable. She doesn't have the skills to cope or the self worth to realize it was about the cheater. If she also has poor boundaries, it is easy to see how an affair could happen. As with the child molester scenario above, I think this is simply an explanation, not a "gray area". It gives us insight into why the BS/OW chose her path, but is not an excuse, and it certainly does not diminish the pain the cheater's wife/family feel.

 

Most cheaters and current OW, whether they are formerly BS or not, do have issues. This DOES NOT mean they are bad people, but they could certainly do some work on themselves to improve. Their choices are related to issues within themselves, although many are not self aware enough to see it. They will see our observations about their coping skills, or impulse control, poor boundaries or low self worth as insults & criticism. (They think I'm a bad person!!!).

 

Our advice will be immediately discarded as "not applying to them" because these people who have made poor choices, tolerate poor treatment from others, blame others for their problems, engage in "close friendships" with married men are such well rounded, confident, emotionally healthy individuals with no issues.

 

We all make mistakes, but just calling it a "mistake" and not doing the work to find what issues within us led us down that path is shortsighted, IMO. Coming from dysfunctional families (me), never being given the tools to cope, having poor models for relationships, never learning proper boundaries does NOT mean we are bad. It just means that we were never given the tools required to make good choices for ourselves, and that sense of worthiness was never instilled in us. We are not bad, we were robbed. Robbed of the upbringing that is supposed to teach us these things. We do not have to be a product of our environment forever, though. We can acknowledge our flaws, educate ourselves and evolve.

 

To quote the Partridge Family, I think I love you. So well said.

 

( but in a totally platonic, crossing no boundaries, admiration of your ability to communicate way )

[sweet_pea]

I said the same thing. With absolute conviction. And completely (rudely) shut down anyone who flirted while I was still married.

 

Things change though. What happens if your husband died or left you and you suddenly found yourself in a dating situation with a man who lied to you about being married for months on end? Or he was legally divorced but ended up going back to his wife?

 

I can tell you from experience that there are MANY, MANY men out there (especially on dating sites, but not just restricted to there) who are married and lie about it. I even ended up dating one a few months ago two or three times until I met he and his wife in a retail store and found out otherwise.

 

You end it immediately and tell his wife/SO?

[Hope Shimmers]

You end it immediately and tell his wife/SO?

 

Well in my case his wife already knew - from the beginning. And it was YEARS before I knew for sure he wasn't going to D. By then we were engaged (I had a ring) and we had an apartment to move into.

 

I get that you think this should be very black and white, but by then I loved him more than have ever loved anyone, and it's just not that easy. I loved him as much as you BS's love your H's, and he loved me.

 

I am sure that you will say "Well I would do it because it's the right thing to do. I wouldn't even think twice". You don't know until you are in those shoes. You don't.

 

You end it immediately and tell his wife/SO?

 

You want to believe and trust in the person you love. You give them chances to prove it to you. Just like BS's do with their WS's. He was still telling me he loved me, he was done, hang in there, etc.

 

I hadn't done anything wrong to that point. I had no obligation to tell his W anything. She knew anyway - she knew we were dating and she knew he loved me because he told her. Maybe someone on the outside would have made better choices, but I wanted to believe him. I loved him. I was pregnant with his daughter.

 

You end it immediately and tell his wife/SO?

 

This is pointless. It will always be about the W no matter what, even if the guy is separated and divorcing and even if it has been years into that scenario. And everyone will always believe A's are black and white and that OW/OM are evil. I tried but I give up.

Edited April 29, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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