"I will never be involved in an affair"

[AlwaysGrowing]

HS, I believe that for most...they can clearly see the difference between the act of cheating and the act of forgiving cheating.

 

Cheating is the act of allowing myself to become someone that goes against how I view myself and who I strive to be.

 

Forgiving..is the act of allowing another to carry the burden of their own actions.

 

One tarnishes my character the other strengths it. Again, I fail to see how you put both of these acts in the same category. To me it is like saying stealing is the same as donating.

 

For myself....anyone who is actively engaged in harmful behaviours...that is how I view them. Even though I understand that people are layered....choosing to hurt others because it benefits oneself is a HUGE negative character flaw...in my view. As long as they engage in those behaviours...that is how I would view them. If one wants to be viewed as someone who does not hurt others for personal gain..then that is how you have to behave.

 

Having said that..I am able to discern between actively and someones past. It also matters to me....how someone views their past..are they able to be critical of themselves...or do they always find a way to defend their past choices.

 

As far as a BS who then goes on to become a WS or an AP...they are no different than anyone else who used poor coping skills, had poor boundaries, made poor choices. Bottom line is that EVERYONE who willing enters an affair knowing the other person is married is the exact same as a BS who chooses the same path..they are not less aware of the negative responses/views of affairs and BS are more aware....all are engaging in harmful behaviours.

[HermioneG]

HS, I believe that for most...they can clearly see the difference between the act of cheating and the act of forgiving cheating.

 

Cheating is the act of allowing myself to become someone that goes against how I view myself and who I strive to be.

 

Forgiving..is the act of allowing another to carry the burden of their own actions.

 

One tarnishes my character the other strengths it. Again, I fail to see how you put both of these acts in the same category. To me it is like saying stealing is the same as donating.

 

For myself....anyone who is actively engaged in harmful behaviours...that is how I view them. Even though I understand that people are layered....choosing to hurt others because it benefits oneself is a HUGE negative character flaw...in my view. As long as they engage in those behaviours...that is how I would view them. If one wants to be viewed as someone who does not hurt others for personal gain..then that is how you have to behave.

 

Having said that..I am able to discern between actively and someones past. It also matters to me....how someone views their past..are they able to be critical of themselves...or do they always find a way to defend their past choices.

 

As far as a BS who then goes on to become a WS or an AP...they are no different than anyone else who used poor coping skills, had poor boundaries, made poor choices. Bottom line is that EVERYONE who willing enters an affair knowing the other person is married is the exact same as a BS who chooses the same path..they are not less aware of the negative responses/views of affairs and BS are more aware....all are engaging in harmful behaviours.

 

This is an awesome post!!!

[EasyHeart]

I doubt anyone entering a marriage thinks they are going to cheat.

 

IMO, people who think that it's impossible for themselves to cheat are more likely to have an affair because they are more likely to put themselves in situations where they might cheat. If you think that you'll never cheat on your spouse, it's easy to rationalize attraction for someone else and claim he/she is just a friend and nothing will happen if you spend time alone with him/her.

 

OTH, if you accept that anyone - even you - can be tempted, you are more likely to remove yourself from situations where you might cheat. If you find yourself attracted to someone (which is healthy and normal and happens dozens of times to most married people), you'll distance yourself from that person, avoid spending time with him/her and prevent yourself from ever being tempted.

[HermioneG]

I doubt anyone entering a marriage thinks they are going to cheat.

 

IMO, people who think that it's impossible for themselves to cheat are more likely to have an affair because they are more likely to put themselves in situations where they might cheat. If you think that you'll never cheat on your spouse, it's easy to rationalize attraction for someone else and claim he/she is just a friend and nothing will happen if you spend time alone with him/her.

 

OTH, if you accept that anyone - even you - can be tempted, you are more likely to remove yourself from situations where you might cheat. If you find yourself attracted to someone (which is healthy and normal and happens dozens of times to most married people), you'll distance yourself from that person, avoid spending time with him/her and prevent yourself from ever being tempted.

 

I think there are people who have naturally high boundaries who know they will never cheat and shut down all possibilities. I've never ever put myself in a situation where it would even be a possibility. I naturally do exactly what you state- because it is a healthy choice. I do not do it out of fear of a weak decision by me. I do it because it is right.

 

I've got a good track record of not ever crossing a boundary.

 

I have no idea why some people claim that knowing those boundaries and observing them makes people like me *more* of a risk.

 

Read some Glass, Pittman, Gottman and Fisher. You'll see that people like me are actually in a lower risk group, not a higher, because we are acutely aware of boundaries.

 

I know not to play in traffic. That does not make me a higher risk for getting hit in a crosswalk than someone who dances in the crosswalk but eventually realizes after a few close calls that it may not be so safe. In fact, the claim that having tight boundaries and a deep personal knowledge of what lines they will not cross as being some sort of liability has always appeared to me to be a bizarre rationalization that makes very little sense.

[BHsigh]

I said that too. I would never, ever cheat. It's just not me. And what about the BS's that do it after saying they would never do it having known how painful it is? How are they different, is my question. I know you say you would 'never, ever' do something but others have said the same, even after experiencing the ultimate pain of it, and then did it. So what does that mean?

 

It means that there is a part of that persons decision making process that allows them to let themselves have an affair. Some people let themselves, some people don't, some people just don't care and others are not able no matter what.

 

Personally, I have nothing against any AP or WS, ad long as they know that having an affair was wrong and they are actively trying to fix it. If you're unapologetically in an affair, then I do think that you're a bad person. If you understand the pain that an affair can cause, and at least feel bad about it and are trying to learn and grow, then you are now a good person.

 

Learn and move on, that's all that you can do. This rationalization just sounds to me like you're trying to say that everyone can react like you did, but it's just not true. Just learn and grow, who cares if someone else can fall in the same situation or not.

[BHsigh]

I doubt anyone entering a marriage thinks they are going to cheat.

 

IMO, people who think that it's impossible for themselves to cheat are more likely to have an affair because they are more likely to put themselves in situations where they might cheat. If you think that you'll never cheat on your spouse, it's easy to rationalize attraction for someone else and claim he/she is just a friend and nothing will happen if you spend time alone with him/her.

 

OTH, if you accept that anyone - even you - can be tempted, you are more likely to remove yourself from situations where you might cheat. If you find yourself attracted to someone (which is healthy and normal and happens dozens of times to most married people), you'll distance yourself from that person, avoid spending time with him/her and prevent yourself from ever being tempted.

 

I fully agree with this last paragraph, this is so true.

[Hope Shimmers]

Okay. I guess I have not explained myself very well.

 

Learn and move on, that's all that you can do. This rationalization just sounds to me like you're trying to say that everyone can react like you did, but it's just not true. Just learn and grow, who cares if someone else can fall in the same situation or not.

 

*sigh*

 

I am not trying to rationalize what I did, BHsigh. I know what I did was wrong, and I'll never be repeating it. In fact I almost lost my life over it. I am just trying to have a discussion that might open some people's minds a little, same as every other discussion on this forum.

 

As far as most of the other responses, I am well aware that many people here say "I'll never have an A". That was my point. The question was - why do so many people say this and yet still do it? What is the difference between those people and those of you who are saying it on this thread? Are they worse people, or could it be that - because you have never found yourself in such a situation - that you don't understand everything that leads one to become involved in an A?

 

In discussing BS's who go on to have an A, I was not really referring to 'revenge' A's (although those are wrong too). I was referring to people who, years down the line, even after ending their M, end up an AP. Over the years I have read quite a few of those stories here. Why, if they KNOW the damage an A can cause, and they divorced their spouse over it, do they then inflict the hurt on someone else?

 

DTK3 - You said this: "But its sooo very personal. For most to engage in an affair they must first demonize the spouse while putting the AP amoung the stars. Need proof, find some wayward wives here and follow their stories over the months and years. So often they start out saying "my BS is a good guy that doesn't deserve this and I have no plans to leave" then as time pass its "our marriage has been bad for a long time I should have left years ago."

 

Your posts are so narrowly focused that it's almost impossible to respond. That is true for YOUR situation but not all (probably not even most). For example, many OW/OM aren't married in the first place (including me).

 

For the comments about judging - I do believe it is wrong to judge other people. Others have different opinions, clearly. I just find judging others to be painful and unnecessary. I don't believe empathizing with someone in pain is the same thing as understanding what they have experienced (either in the case of an BS or OW/OM). Do I think that others who say "I would never cheat" are judging others who do? Yes... maybe just in their head, but oftentimes also in posts they make.

 

With this thread I was just trying to (unsuccessfully, it seems) bridge the gap that exists between BS and OW/OM and suggest that all isn't black and white, and that not everything can be understood without having experienced it. I fully accept that what I did was wrong. This is not about trying to rationalize what I did and suggest everyone should do it.

[waterwoman]

Oh I don't know. I see what you mean, the road to hell and all that, but I firmly beleive I won't. At least I will definitely not go looking for one and I will be far more careful with my interactions with others than I have been in the past.

 

I did have an EA a long time ago. I didn't call it that then, I had never heard the term, I thought it was a lot of flirting, and too much headspace being given too each other...until he told me one morning he had left his GF and would wait for me to divorce H. I ran like the wind! Left my job asap and never contacted him again. I can honestly say I wandered into that with my eyes closed, with inadequate boundaries established, but no deliberate intent and I ended it as soon as I realised how stupid I had been. I was genuinely shocked at the outcome. But I do know better now.

 

Having been on the side of the BS now, I can say that this side stinks too

 

In fact it is a stick with both ends covered in s***! I would be crazy to try to touch it ever again.

[janedoe67]

If someone says "I will never cheat because I have chosen to have firm and vigilant boundaries" I believe them.

 

If they say "I would never cheat because I'M better than that" I just roll my eyes because that was me. And Proverbs has something to say about that

[blueskyday]

We judge people all the time. Judging is not exclusive of compassion. When someone steals, lies, cheats we cannot help but judge them to be an unethical person. It doesn't mean we don't have compassion for them or understand how they might have crossed the line. We do understand that.

 

But it doesn't this excuse the fact that they have done something wrong. Judging it to be wrong is okay. It is the truth.

 

I can say I'll never cheat because I know myself. I've defined who I am, and that is not what I do. Because of that, I do not put myself in situations where cheating could occur. I do not take one step down the road that might lead there.

 

It means I do not flirt with a coworker or feel flattered by compliments from members of the opposite sex. It means I would distance myself from anybody who would try to enter into an affair with me. Believe me, there have been many many times I've been hit on by married men and I have never crossed the line.

 

I was in an abusive relationship, and didn't cheat. That didn't mean I wasn't tempted. What it meant is when I was tempted I didn't view cheating as an opportunity. I discovered I had to meet my needs ethically. I could have either worked on my marriage or I could have gotten out of it. Cheating was simply not in the mix, or an option .

 

It is that simple. And it's a mindset.

Edited April 26, 2014 by blueskyday

[Hope Shimmers]

We judge people all the time. Judging is not exclusive of compassion. When someone steals, lies, cheats we cannot help but judge them to be an unethical person. It doesn't mean we don't have compassion for them or understand how they might have crossed the line. We do understand that.

 

But it doesn't this excuse the fact that they have done something wrong. Judging it to be wrong is okay. It is the truth.

 

I can say I'll never cheat because I know myself. I've defined who I am, and that is not what I do. Because of that, I do not put myself in situations where cheating could occur. I do not take one step down the road that might lead there.

 

It means I do not flirt with a coworker or feel flattered by compliments from members of the opposite sex. It means I would distance myself from anybody who would try to enter into an affair with me. Believe me, there have been many many times I've been hit on by married men and I have never crossed the line.

 

I was in an abusive relationship, and didn't cheat. That didn't mean I wasn't tempted. What it meant is when I was tempted I didn't view cheating as an opportunity. I discovered I had to meet my needs ethically. I could have either worked on my marriage or I could have gotten out of it. Cheating was simply not in the mix, or an option .

 

It is that simple. And it's a mindset.

 

I agree with this. I was in an abusive marriage too and was tempted to cheat, and had many opportunities to do so, but I chose divorce.

 

My mistake was not realizing I had bad boundaries by dating a separated and divorcing man after my own divorce. I stupidly thought he would follow through and I believed him for far too long. Longer than I should have, and that was my fault. I know better now but I never could have imagined getting myself in that and certainly didn't choose to.

[Hope Shimmers]

Oh I don't know. I see what you mean, the road to hell and all that, but I firmly beleive I won't. At least I will definitely not go looking for one and I will be far more careful with my interactions with others than I have been in the past.

 

I did have an EA a long time ago. I didn't call it that then, I had never heard the term, I thought it was a lot of flirting, and too much headspace being given too each other...until he told me one morning he had left his GF and would wait for me to divorce H. I ran like the wind! Left my job asap and never contacted him again. I can honestly say I wandered into that with my eyes closed, with inadequate boundaries established, but no deliberate intent and I ended it as soon as I realised how stupid I had been. I was genuinely shocked at the outcome. But I do know better now.

 

Having been on the side of the BS now, I can say that this side stinks too

 

In fact it is a stick with both ends covered in s***! I would be crazy to try to touch it ever again.

 

I love your last line - I couldn't agree more.

[ThatMan]

Grown adults aren't hapless children who so happen to fall into whatever they stumble across. Grown adults are often confident in their own decisions.

 

Now what's all this about empathy?

 

Speaking for yourself and your own point of view isn't a judgement being shilled out against everyone else with board strokes. We all know that we're capable of affairs. We also know that it's impossible to slip on a banana on any given crosswalk and accidentally find our penis landed inside of somebody else. The reality is that people choose to have an affair because that's what they wanted. To suggest otherwise is the furthest you can be from empathy, I assure you.

[BHsigh]

Okay. I guess I have not explained myself very well.

 

 

 

*sigh*

 

I am not trying to rationalize what I did, BHsigh. I know what I did was wrong, and I'll never be repeating it. In fact I almost lost my life over it. I am just trying to have a discussion that might open some people's minds a little, same as every other discussion on this forum.

 

As far as most of the other responses, I am well aware that many people here say "I'll never have an A". That was my point. The question was - why do so many people say this and yet still do it? What is the difference between those people and those of you who are saying it on this thread? Are they worse people, or could it be that - because you have never found yourself in such a situation - that you don't understand everything that leads one to become involved in an A?

 

In discussing BS's who go on to have an A, I was not really referring to 'revenge' A's (although those are wrong too). I was referring to people who, years down the line, even after ending their M, end up an AP. Over the years I have read quite a few of those stories here. Why, if they KNOW the damage an A can cause, and they divorced their spouse over it, do they then inflict the hurt on someone else?

 

DTK3 - You said this: "But its sooo very personal. For most to engage in an affair they must first demonize the spouse while putting the AP amoung the stars. Need proof, find some wayward wives here and follow their stories over the months and years. So often they start out saying "my BS is a good guy that doesn't deserve this and I have no plans to leave" then as time pass its "our marriage has been bad for a long time I should have left years ago."

 

Your posts are so narrowly focused that it's almost impossible to respond. That is true for YOUR situation but not all (probably not even most). For example, many OW/OM aren't married in the first place (including me).

 

For the comments about judging - I do believe it is wrong to judge other people. Others have different opinions, clearly. I just find judging others to be painful and unnecessary. I don't believe empathizing with someone in pain is the same thing as understanding what they have experienced (either in the case of an BS or OW/OM). Do I think that others who say "I would never cheat" are judging others who do? Yes... maybe just in their head, but oftentimes also in posts they make.

 

With this thread I was just trying to (unsuccessfully, it seems) bridge the gap that exists between BS and OW/OM and suggest that all isn't black and white, and that not everything can be understood without having experienced it. I fully accept that what I did was wrong. This is not about trying to rationalize what I did and suggest everyone should do it.

 

And that is the problem right there, you trying to bridge the gap between the AP and the BS, there is no bridging that gap. One was betrayed and the other took an active part in that betrayal (unless they honestly thought that the WS was single, then they at least have an honest excuse and could be considered the same as the BS).

 

That itself is rationalization, the BS and the AP are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I know that most AP wish that it wasn't true, but it is. The good people own their actions and seek to learn and prevent themselves from choosing that path again, the bad ones make excuses such as "I'm in the same shoes as the bs". This isn't true no matter what, exBS, exWS, first time AP or multiple times AP.

[Hope Shimmers]

And that is the problem right there, you trying to bridge the gap between the AP and the BS, there is no bridging that gap. One was betrayed and the other took an active part in that betrayal (unless they honestly thought that the WS was single, then they at least have an honest excuse and could be considered the same as the BS).

 

That itself is rationalization, the BS and the AP are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I know that most AP wish that it wasn't true, but it is. The good people own their actions and seek to learn and prevent themselves from choosing that path again, the bad ones make excuses such as "I'm in the same shoes as the bs". This isn't true no matter what, exBS, exWS, first time AP or multiple times AP.

 

Who said they were in the same shoes as the BS? That's not even remotely what I said.

 

If there is no bridging that gap, then please explain why so many BS's go on to become OW/OM.

[Hope Shimmers]

And that is the problem right there, you trying to bridge the gap between the AP and the BS, there is no bridging that gap. One was betrayed and the other took an active part in that betrayal (unless they honestly thought that the WS was single, then they at least have an honest excuse and could be considered the same as the BS).

 

That itself is rationalization, the BS and the AP are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I know that most AP wish that it wasn't true, but it is. The good people own their actions and seek to learn and prevent themselves from choosing that path again, the bad ones make excuses such as "I'm in the same shoes as the bs". This isn't true no matter what, exBS, exWS, first time AP or multiple times AP.

 

And another thing - in my case I didn't think the 'WS' was single, but I knew he was separated and living on his own and going through the process of divorce. I DATED him. So I learned that it is an affair to date someone before the divorce papers come through. That does NOT mean I think I am in the same shoes as the BS - not even close. Because at some point I should have realized that I was being lied to, but I just didn't. Yet she knew he was dating when we first started seeing each other. When it all blew up was when he told her (voluntarily) that he was in love with me. I suppose that was when the A technically started. And no, I didn't leave... I had invested years at that point, I loved him, and I chose to believe him.

[purplesorrow]

And that is the problem right there, you trying to bridge the gap between the AP and the BS, there is no bridging that gap. One was betrayed and the other took an active part in that betrayal (unless they honestly thought that the WS was single, then they at least have an honest excuse and could be considered the same as the BS).

 

That itself is rationalization, the BS and the AP are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I know that most AP wish that it wasn't true, but it is. The good people own their actions and seek to learn and prevent themselves from choosing that path again, the bad ones make excuses such as "I'm in the same shoes as the bs". This isn't true no matter what, exBS, exWS, first time AP or multiple times AP.

I agree, no bridge. My wh's ow was single. She knew he was married from day one. Even knew he had no plans on leaving. When she wanted my husband, it would be just a little fun, all colorful. Once she got caught and didn't want to be exposed, It was somehow black and white. She did wrong and didn't want anyone to know.

[DKT3]

Okay. I guess I have not explained myself very well.

 

 

 

*sigh*

 

I am not trying to rationalize what I did, BHsigh. I know what I did was wrong, and I'll never be repeating it. In fact I almost lost my life over it. I am just trying to have a discussion that might open some people's minds a little, same as every other discussion on this forum.

 

As far as most of the other responses, I am well aware that many people here say "I'll never have an A". That was my point. The question was - why do so many people say this and yet still do it? What is the difference between those people and those of you who are saying it on this thread? Are they worse people, or could it be that - because you have never found yourself in such a situation - that you don't understand everything that leads one to become involved in an A?

 

In discussing BS's who go on to have an A, I was not really referring to 'revenge' A's (although those are wrong too). I was referring to people who, years down the line, even after ending their M, end up an AP. Over the years I have read quite a few of those stories here. Why, if they KNOW the damage an A can cause, and they divorced their spouse over it, do they then inflict the hurt on someone else?

 

DTK3 - You said this: "But its sooo very personal. For most to engage in an affair they must first demonize the spouse while putting the AP amoung the stars. Need proof, find some wayward wives here and follow their stories over the months and years. So often they start out saying "my BS is a good guy that doesn't deserve this and I have no plans to leave" then as time pass its "our marriage has been bad for a long time I should have left years ago."

 

Your posts are so narrowly focused that it's almost impossible to respond. That is true for YOUR situation but not all (probably not even most). For example, many OW/OM aren't married in the first place (including me).

 

For the comments about judging - I do believe it is wrong to judge other people. Others have different opinions, clearly. I just find judging others to be painful and unnecessary. I don't believe empathizing with someone in pain is the same thing as understanding what they have experienced (either in the case of an BS or OW/OM). Do I think that others who say "I would never cheat" are judging others who do? Yes... maybe just in their head, but oftentimes also in posts they make.

 

With this thread I was just trying to (unsuccessfully, it seems) bridge the gap that exists between BS and OW/OM and suggest that all isn't black and white, and that not everything can be understood without having experienced it. I fully accept that what I did was wrong. This is not about trying to rationalize what I did and suggest everyone should do it.

 

If your not married then how can you demonize your spouse? Clearly I was talking about single people.

 

I feel that your so set on defending YOURSELF that you don't really get what people are saying.

 

And yes it is black and white. When I was married I was physically attracted to a lot of women and in the one case I mentioned before also an emotional attraction. The black and white of the situation is I knew it was wrong so I didn't engage with her. Its really that simple. In no time the attraction faded. There lays the difference. You don't fall for some one. You have to first engage. That isn't narrow. If you don't open the door to the dark room there is no way to get locked in there. But if you open it and peek in you've put yourself in position to be pushed or pulled in. It is that black and white no matter if you a WS or OW/M.

 

Your situation is slightly different being that your MM was heading towards D when you started. Yet the choice by you was made to continue once he went back to the marriage. As I said everyone involved in affairs has a choice except the BS.

[AlwaysGrowing]

HS

 

You answered your own question. Some people learn about boundaries sooner than others. I believe that most of us are unaware of how loose our boundaries are until we get ourselves into trouble.

 

For some, it was a dysfunctional relationship that they learned how they allowed others to plow through their boundaries/self respect, for others it was by their own hand.

 

I also believe that most of us never learned how to self advocate without feeling like we are being "mean" or not "nice"...for women...feeling like a "bitch".

 

Not to mention how infrequently we give consequences to those that repeatedly try to breach our boundaries. We tend to stay polite....try not to offend...try to compromise...try to be fair...to someone who clearly does not give the same consideration. Why? Why are we afraid to enforce boundaries with others? Why do women feel it makes them a "bitch"? Why is it not okay to be offended when another thinks it would be just great for us to wear the AP hat badge? Why do so many feel it is a compliment for a married person to want to have a relationship with us....while still married????

[Hope Shimmers]

HS

 

You answered your own question. Some people learn about boundaries sooner than others. I believe that most of us are unaware of how loose our boundaries are until we get ourselves into trouble.

 

For some, it was a dysfunctional relationship that they learned how they allowed others to plow through their boundaries/self respect, for others it was by their own hand.

 

I also believe that most of us never learned how to self advocate without feeling like we are being "mean" or not "nice"...for women...feeling like a "bitch".

 

Not to mention how infrequently we give consequences to those that repeatedly try to breach our boundaries. We tend to stay polite....try not to offend...try to compromise...try to be fair...to someone who clearly does not give the same consideration. Why? Why are we afraid to enforce boundaries with others? Why do women feel it makes them a "bitch"? Why is it not okay to be offended when another thinks it would be just great for us to wear the AP hat badge? Why do so many feel it is a compliment for a married person to want to have a relationship with us....while still married????

 

Hi AG,

 

You make good points. I think part of what I do (what I need to do to make sure I move on properly) is examine the reasons why I stayed in a situation which was clearly wrong and believed someone when I should have known better. I could go into more detail on how what you said applies to me, but it really doesn't matter to others - plus certain people would just say I was 'defending myself' (not you). Understanding the reasons for past actions is not the same as making excuses for them, but some cannot see that.

 

Thanks for your post.

[Hope Shimmers]

If your not married then how can you demonize your spouse? Clearly I was talking about single people.

 

Huh?

 

That was exactly why I said what I did - you referred to 'demonizing your spouse' as happening in affairs, so you would have to be referring to married people by definition.

 

We speak totally different languages. No matter.

[Quiet Storm]

Who said they were in the same shoes as the BS? That's not even remotely what I said.

 

If there is no bridging that gap, then please explain why so many BS's go on to become OW/OM.

 

Bad boundaries, poor coping skills, sometimes low self worth. Some BS do other unhealthy things, too, like drinking, pills, etc. It is a lot to cope with, and some people don't have the coping skills to deal with it.

[BHsigh]

Who said they were in the same shoes as the BS? That's not even remotely what I said.

 

If there is no bridging that gap, then please explain why so many BS's go on to become OW/OM.

 

They go on to be AP for the exact same reasons that anyone else does, why does any gap have to be bridged to explain it?

 

And why the statement of "so many BS's go on to become OW/OM"? Unless it's a significant number of them then I see no need whatsoever to think that anything else was at play.

[BHsigh]

And another thing - in my case I didn't think the 'WS' was single, but I knew he was separated and living on his own and going through the process of divorce. I DATED him. So I learned that it is an affair to date someone before the divorce papers come through. That does NOT mean I think I am in the same shoes as the BS - not even close. Because at some point I should have realized that I was being lied to, but I just didn't. Yet she knew he was dating when we first started seeing each other. When it all blew up was when he told her (voluntarily) that he was in love with me. I suppose that was when the A technically started. And no, I didn't leave... I had invested years at that point, I loved him, and I chose to believe him.

 

Well, I know that this isn't a part of your original point, but it's your thread so I'll answer. I am able to look at individual cases of course, but if you started dating openly, he was separated and his spouse knew about it, plus they were waiting on divorce papers. While the law in certain states may call that an affair, I sure don't. It was open and you two weren't sneaking around? So what was the problem? Did he lie and get back together with his wife or something? If so then I would consider you wronged by him, just as much as his wife in that case.

[AlwaysGrowing]

HS:

 

I am of the camp that revenge affairs are no different than any other "titled" affair.

 

All affairs are entered into without acknowledging the self cost one might have to pay.

 

FTR, I believe without self reflection we never learn and grow in life. I believe emotional maturity has little to do with what year one was born in. Often, I encounter such wisdom from those much younger than I.

 

I also encounter stiff resistance to the idea of self empowerment. If only folks realized that they navigate their own ship.....that life doesn't just generally happen to us...how much quicker would they be able to course correct and start their journey anew.