Mindreading

[newby]

i just read some posts from other men and can see the situation quite clearly.

women do use guys who are nice to them to make them feel stronger then they go for the a**hole who makes their heart beat faster.

 

as a woman that is quite clear cut to me.

 

but....is it the same with the married men? is this what they do/want?

 

are there any men who can say why the o/w are useful, is it the same thing ego boost and do they feel the same way about them i.e look at them with disrespect????????

[LucreziaBorgia]

It isn't so much about ego as it is about seeing that his needs are being met. If the W fails to meet a certain set of needs, he will go outside of the marriage to see that those needs are met. The problems come with the OW tries to overstep those needs or tries to fulfill needs that the wife is already meeting. Once she steps outside of those boundaries the MM has for her, she's doomed more or less. The MM has very little concern for the 'OW' needs, only concern for how well/often she is meeting his 'OW needs'. Once she fails to meet or tries to overstep those 'OW needs', its over - unless he intends to divorce his wife and transfer those needs to his OW. Which in that case, pray that you meet a greater percentage of needs than the wife before you, otherwise - someone will soon be taking the "OW spot" you left behind to take the "W spot".

 

If he is happy having his 'W needs' met by his wife and has no intention of divorcing, he'll probably go back to his wife and either work to see that she meets a greater percentage of his needs, or he'll take a break and then go back to finding another 'OW' - one who knows her place, and doesn't try to go outside of it. Its all about his needs. On some level that makes it about ego, I guess - but its not just an ego trip, its a need fulfillment. An unfortunate one, at that.

 

I think he will look at his OW with disrespect only when he has exhausted his need for her - particularly if she tries to upset his status quo. As long as she fulfills a certain narrow set of needs of his, she can do no wrong.

[newby]

thanks LB, very interesting.

yes i quite agree thats probably true.

my male friends say men are much simpler than that and it really is all just about sex. i fail to see how that can be when most of these relationships dont seem to involve that much sex and some none at all.

do any mm ever write in these posts? i doubt they would bother.

when it reaally reeeally comes down to it though, and actually your poem quote:

 

Sweet is the lore which Nature brings;

Our meddling intellect

Mis-shapes the beauteous forms of things:

We murder to dissect.

-- Wm. Wordsworth, 'The Tables Turned'

 

says it all in a way. when you analyse any relationship at all and the motives involved arent they all selfish at the end of the day and all about needs being met? i mean if i go back to previous relationships of mine in retrospect if i'm honest i was involved with that one as he made me feel better about this and him cos he made me feel better about that....etc..

[DinNJ]

I think the difference between the MM and MW is the emotional aspect of it. You hear alot less of MW straying then MM's... and I don't think it's because the MW is out for thrill of it or the sex. It's usually based on an emotional level.... an emotional affair if you will, which sometimes, could be alot more serious.

 

My 'friend' for example... has ALWAYS found a way to change the conversation from platonic to romantic when she's feeling down about her relationship. I never realized it, while it was happening until now and after looking back at our history. When she's not getting along or 'leaving' him again, she's got some wonderful things to say about me and us and how she really feels. Then after a couple weeks of myself building up her self asteem again, she cuts our friendship off and runs back to her ex. I think now, she finally realized what she's doing to herself and me.

[newby]

So, what you're saying is; women are more confused about it, whereas men know what they are doing, and don't get confused...just ensure that their needs are met.

[DinNJ]

hmmmm.... well I don't know if I'd say MEN aren't confused about it. I think ANYONE who strays from a relationship or marriage is confused. Not to mention... cowards. But I do think, and this is just an opinion.... that a MW strays for emotional reasons and emotional attachment and could keep it strictly emotional. And a MM likes to have his cake and eat it too. But both the MM and MW are wrong for doing so and both are very much confused. I don't have any respect for either.... hence, the coward comment. If you're married/dating and you're not happy..... get out of it!!! Period. If you keep going back to a 'bad' relationship knowing it's bad from the history.... grow up!!! Stop hoping against hope.... learn the lesson and get out!!! Kids, years invested... family.... love.... WHAT LOVE??? They're all excuses from someone who's afraid to be alone or start over. It's selfish for one to stray and drag someone along for the ride and into their problems.

 

The one who is straying from the relationship doens't have any respect for himself/herself nor the spouse, so how in the hell could they EVER have respect for the OM/OW???? Because they say so? Guess what? Actions speak louder then words... and at the end of the day, the MM/MW is going back home to his W.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by newby

are there any men who can say why the o/w are useful, is it the same thing ego boost and do they feel the same way about them i.e look at them with disrespect????????

 

that is how I would look at it as a man. many times contempt and love exist side by side.

[newby]

alphamale are you saying they have contempt for the o/w yet may still love her?

is this how men think?

[alphamale]

Originally posted by newby

alphamale are you saying they have contempt for the o/w yet may still love her?

is this how men think?

 

yes NEWBY, that is what i am saying. how can a man respect the OW when he is most likely using her for sex and/or emotional support.

 

men instinctually know that most OW have low self-esteem issues and that is why they get involved with MM in first place. OW don't think they are good enuf to have a real relationship

[newby]

alphamale are you a cheating mm?

appreciate the honesty,

in your opinion once disrespected can u get the respect back?

[DinNJ]

oh oh, can I answer that??? *raises hand* and leave room for alpha to answer it too?

 

My opinion in getting the respect back and how to go about doing it? Walk away. Period. Show em' that you can live with or without them. Because by you playing second best to his wife and allowing yourself to be in the position is what lost the respect in the first place. So getting back the respect would be respecting yourself, and walk away with your head up high. Letting him know you're nobody's doormat.

[newby]

hee hee,

yes youre right ofcourse thanks, but i mean i have exposed myself as a snivelling idiot (kind of) whilst im walking away thats exactly what im doing im talking about how i am sad how i feel bad about whole thing etc

isnt that even worse?

i feel like i have to else i will convince myself that im playing the love game to perfection and im so cool and mysterious and hes gotta wonder what im doing etc

so if i just let it all hang out then i cant possibly play anymore can i?

and prob he has the least amount of respect for me now but at least i wont do it anymore knowing that

[lynnered]

Originally posted by alphamale

that is how I would look at it as a man. many times contempt and love exist side by side.

hey newby!!just had to comment I'm not a man but from my xmm (we talked alot good communication)

quite the opposite he held me in high regard actually nobody had ever treated him so well ,he wished he met me years ago ,perfect woman ,he's not over emotional type, but when i broke up with him there were tears in his eyes &he said alot but what brought tears to my eyes(didn't cry ,never let em see you cry!!)

who will i talk to everyday on my way to &from work ,maybe it was differnt with us but Im sure there are other guys that feel like that.

yes ow/om meet a need not met at home ,but all are not are so messed up to have that love hate thing going on ,

you sound like a very sweet wonderful person if you stay or go whatever i just wish you wouldn't be so stressed but please don't think of yourself being thought of negatively because I'm sure thats not the case.

[newby]

Thank-you so much thats so sweet,

 

I'm sure its not the case entirely things are not so black and white and truth is a fleeting thing.

[DinNJ]

Newby - forget looking like a whining fool.... of course self assured confindence is always a better way to 'go out'. You didn't, so what? A month from now, he's not going to be thinking about that. And it's not a game... it's you looking out for you. He's in a win/win situation, and you're in a lose/lose situation. You looking out for yourself and eliminating yourself from the triangle, no matter how you looked gettin' out of it, will earn a certain degree of respect from him.... over time. So long as you don't look back or break contact, or show any emotion towards him when he tries to contact you.

 

I blew it with my 'friend' too... my response to her 'letting me go' email was me basically putting her down for her decision... I put her exH down for hitting her son and put her down some more for forgiving the guy and using me as an emotional doormat... I was very emotional and very upset which I'm quite sure, she understood. When it reality, all I should've responded with was.... "Ok, I wish you well" I sure then her perception of me would've been a whole lot different. But over time, she won't remember my being upset, but she will notice that I can and have chosen to live without and can do very well without.... which will most likely, get the best of her.

Of course... I know she's reading all of my posts.... so all of my actions are null and void.

 

[newby]

hee hee,

is that a joke? does she really read your posts?

ha ha thats funny.

well yes actions do speak louder than words, it doesnt really matter what i say/said as long as when he next knocks on my door i dont let him in. at least one benefit of having him on my msn was that he realised i dont go to bed early anyway and havent just been waiting up for him

thats gonna be the real challenge, not letting him in the next time as i'm sure there will be a next time. anyway at least now with all my sad babbling he cant delude himself that i am happy with the situation and i cant delude myself that i have any self respect in the situation.

sorry i'm waffling i know but it really does help to talk, wish i'd done this long ago.

[DinNJ]

Yea, I'm pretty sure she does... there's a certain silence between us right now and I've got a 'gut' feeling that she's lurking and doesnt have to contact me cause she's getting her information right here. Seven years of every day contact... 2,462 days... everyday. And now, nothing??? Ugh, the silence is killing me. The 'gut' has always been right though, when it comes to her. I know her like the back of my hand, better then her husband and better then she knows herself. That's why it scares the shi! out of her.

 

We deleted each other from msn... first I did, then I put her back... sent her a heartfelt, nice email, and she in turn deleted me.... go figure. I'm not mad at her anymore... just disappointed. Disappointed that she lead a lie for seven years. Yea, it hurt, but with hurt comes a lesson. The lesson that she'd be willing do something to me, that I would've NEVER have done to her. Forgive, but never forget.

[newby]

We deleted each other from msn... first I did, then I put her back... sent her a heartfelt, nice email, and she in turn deleted me.... go figure. quote

 

oooh harsh

 

7 years is a long time, have you tried other relationships since?

[DinNJ]

nahhh... well, I am talking to someone now... but it's all still fresh (the friend) , so my heart really isn't it. She bamboozeled me pretty good when I least expected it. It wasn't easy to listen to her tell me the only person she loved more then me was her son... but it's an 'unrealistic' love, so she was gonna 'make things better' with her exH. Sweet words, huh? Think she was confused?

[li'l bunny]

It sounds like she really loves you though DinNJ. I have a friend in that type of situation and she says she loves both guys. She says she feels she should stay with her H for the kids sake but at the same time she doesn't want to let her 'friend' go. Selfish maybe or maybe it's a survival instinct, maybe your friend NEEDS you to survive?

[DinNJ]

It sounds like she really loves you though DinNJ

 

yea, I wish Lil' bunny. Even though I've always known her to be sincere and genuine over the years... honestly, I'd have to agree with most when I say IF she loved' me then she would be with me, OR at the very least, she would've said "Woah! I've got feelings for this guy, so let me spend time by myself to sort out my feelings and NOT rush back to my ex" ya know?

For her to tell me she loved me, her feelings were sincere but unrealistic and NOT say she was in love with her ex is just crazy talk. Not to mention the whole 'kids' thing. Her exH ISN'T her sons father, so she can't use the... "my son needs a daddy' excuse. In fact, she complained a hell of alot less about the kids biological father then she did this creep. *L* sorry, I'm still bitter I guess.

Quite possibly, she just could've been completely overwhelmed by my spending a week with her in her apartment, same bed, morning, noon and night with her son on vacation after NOT seeing her for four years. It may have been a little too much for her to handle emotionally... which I could totally understand. What I can't understand was her cold way of ending the friendship so soon after the vacation together... and probably never will. *shrugs* Thought she was a friend that respected me, apparently not. Time to move onto bigger and better, not to mention sweeter.