Is it possible...

[Nattie]

Is it possible to weather the storm, and come out happy on the other side?

 

People who DO end up with their AP's, what was the process like? I know of three very happy couples who began as forbidden affairs. One was a sleeping with her sister's husband situation, shocking and horrible but over 30 years later they are just as in love and nobody can imagine a time when they weren't together. The other two are less than ten years in, but are happily married. Is it possible to find the one a little too late? My MM and I love each other. With each passing day he wants to move a little more toward leaving our spouses and being together, and so do I, but I just wish I could fast forward through all the drama, hurt and guilt, to a time when we're just openly together, happy, and don't get looks and whispers every time we go out. I know there aren't a ton of success stories, but they do exist. I keep telling myself, you have this one life, don't throw this love away because you're scared of change.

[veryhappy]

Try to search older threads. This question comes up regularly and people have written on it.

 

There are a few happy stories here. I saw a statistic somewhere that 20% of the couples started while in another relationship. Hope I remember that right. In many cases I'd expect people simply don't know for evident reasons. It makes people uneasy.

[DKT3]

After my divorce due to ex wifes infidelity I read and read. Couple that with being a numbers guy I wanted to know numbers. I know a lot of numbers.

 

What I will say about this, rare.

 

I know some get upset by data but the truth is only 9% of MM actually leave the marriage for OW. 30% of MW leave. Of the 30% roughly 3/4 attempt to return to the marriage within a year largest percent within 10 months.

 

About 82% of affair relationship fail within 2 years. It actually spikes to over 90% in your situation were both AP's are married.

 

Numbers and stats reflect human nature and give insight to the most likely outcome.

 

Can you and your MM live a happy life together? Sure, will you? Not likely. The numbers say its a long shot that both of you will even leave your marriages.

[carhill]

IME, when the partners are focused on each and other considerations are secondary and dismissed, it is possible, and likely, they can survive and thrive. Of the couples I've personally experienced, in at least one case where I was the one who 'lost', it's been the steadfast focus on each other regardless of the challenges that portended their future and happiness. Common? Not in my experience, but it happens. My anecdotes are clear affairs, not ambiguous beginnings, meaning the partners were clearly married to others when their relationship began. Small sample (under ten) but there ya go.

 

Such processes didn't happen overnight. In some cases, they took many years and weathered challenges and setbacks all along the way, especially where children were involved. Definitely not the easy path, IME.

[Speakingofwhich]

One was a sleeping with her sister's husband situation, shocking and horrible but over 30 years later they are just as in love and nobody can imagine a time when they weren't together.

 

Nattie, could you elaborate on how this couple was able to move from such a difficult situation and now be happily together? I'm really curious as it seems it would have destroyed the family of the sister and just wonder how a couple could find happiness after being a part of causing and coming out of such devastation. And are they still part of the family? What happened to the BS who was the sister?

 

I personally know of around 15 couples who are together after having began as an A. I also know of two couples who began as affairs, stayed together for 7-15 years and then divorced. One of the couples was an exit affair. The people in the other affair were both married and it wasn't an exit affair. Seems they were married at least 15 years, maybe more. Had three children and split when the kids were teenagers.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Yeah...my dad and his affair partner have now been married for 25 years and will be married forever ...but it came at a cost.

 

My father abandoned his children and put all his focus unto his new wife and her 4 children. He got up in court and told a judge he couldn't afford a lot of child support because he had 4 other children to support. So yeah, as Carhill says...If they live in their little selfish bubble and focus on each other...they might have a chance ...and Dad did. Focused on her....her children...and now her grandchildren....to the cost of his own children. He abandoned us...and now could not even have a healthy relationship with us if he tried...we don't trust him or respect him. Oh sure...He's sorry now...now we don't really need him as grown adults...He can cry all he likes - and he does- but it's all crocodile tears in our eyes...too little too late.

 

Can it work? Sure...but someone ALWAYS pays the price. Are you REALLY willing to sacrifice your children? Is he? Your relationship with OM and the welfare of all children are diametrically opposed. You cannot give to one without taking from the other....who will pay the price for you? Who will he choose?

Edited April 29, 2014 by ThatsJustHowIRoll

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

The other question is how old are the children? I was 9 and caused a whole heap of heap of issues for my father and his OW. I made him choose between me and her. He chose her.

 

Children are people. They are not pliable and will not react in ways you always want them to. Ex partners may trash you to them...disclose everything. In my case I was told everything and then some and developed a hatred for OW. You cannot control the information fed to them fro. Your H and you will not be able to keep them from him. And if you think he never would ...well...you can't predict how a betrayed person will react or behave.

 

I think you're underestimating the storm.you will have to weather.

[eye of the storm]

Do some work out? Yes. Just like some people win the lottery. But there are way more people that spend their life savings on lotto tickets than win.

 

If you want a "forever" R with your AP, then both of you need to leave your BSs and try. End one R before starting another.

 

My ExH and his MOW tried (he left me, she was kicked out) but without the excitement of the A and with the drag of daily bills and chores they couldn't keep their R going. She ended up cheating on him (surprise) and he ended up living in his car for awhile.

 

Both of our kids have issues from that time period. He damaged his R with his kids more than he will ever fully realize. They love him, but they have issues fully trusting him and his judgment. They feel he chose the OW over them.

 

There is a cost to being in an A. And sometimes it is not the APs who pay the largest cost.

[Arieswoman]

Nattie,

I can't speak for all situations but when I found my WS was cheating I gave his AP what she wanted, and asked my WS to leave. I got a divorce from him after about 5 months. After their affair was on and off for some time (she had a fiance) they got together and married when she got pregnant.

 

(FB wasn't around at the time this happened so I was NC and moved to another area.)

 

I found her about a year ago on on FB.

They now have 2 children and she posts on FB regularly about how much she is taken for granted, how he moans all the time and how hard she has to work. (They have two children and she works p/t).

 

I smile to myself when I read this.

 

There is an old Chinese curse that says "May your every wish come true.":rolleyes:

[Nattie]

Nattie, could you elaborate on how this couple was able to move from such a difficult situation and now be happily together? I'm really curious as it seems it would have destroyed the family of the sister and just wonder how a couple could find happiness after being a part of causing and coming out of such devastation. And are they still part of the family? What happened to the BS who was the sister?

 

I personally know of around 15 couples who are together after having began as an A. I also know of two couples who began as affairs, stayed together for 7-15 years and then divorced. One of the couples was an exit affair. The people in the other affair were both married and it wasn't an exit affair. Seems they were married at least 15 years, maybe more. Had three children and split when the kids were teenagers.

 

I can try, they're much older than I am, but I'm very close with the family. Basically the BS sister was very ill, and was in poor health for a long time. Her H and sister fell in love while they were taking care of her. I think they came out together after BS sister passed away, so she wasn't around to cause conflict, but there were certainly other family members who were stunned. I met them after they had already been together for at LEAST ten years, and they really are a couple people can envy. They're retired, grandparents (he is stepfather to 2nd wife's child) and they're so sweet and considerate of each other. I know this is a freak success story, but it's amazing to see them.

[eye of the storm]

Nattie, that is kind of a unique situation. They didn't run around on the BS, they developed feelings while taking care and supporting someone they both loved. Personally I don't see anything wrong with it and I bet if the sister that passed on could weigh in she would be happy her sister and her H both found love. Dealing with someone who is suffering for a long time can either tear people apart or bind them forever.

[Nattie]

Nattie, that is kind of a unique situation. They didn't run around on the BS, they developed feelings while taking care and supporting someone they both loved. Personally I don't see anything wrong with it and I bet if the sister that passed on could weigh in she would be happy her sister and her H both found love. Dealing with someone who is suffering for a long time can either tear people apart or bind them forever.

I do know that there was some drama at some point while she was still alive... Unplanned pregnancy, abortion etc. I don't know the whole story but I was told it was a rough time in the beginning.

[gettingstronger]

Both of my husbands parents are in marriages that began as affairs-my husband had an affair-thats about all I can say on it-

[A.Moscote]

"...don't throw this love away because you're scared of change."

 

I think it is enough that you are aware of what you want and its long road ahead. Don't overwhelm yourself by ponder too much on the possibility and the ending. That just make it harder for you to make the change.

 

Plan and act on things one at a time. Start with the small changes that you can make, they will give you the momentum and pile up your courage.

 

It is what you do right now that gives values to you as a person, not what you dream of. Face the challenge. release your H from this unfair and sad situation, prepare your family for the ending no matter how difficult it is. Maybe your AP is looking up to you, show him that you are really into this R.

 

Again, don't worry too much about the ending. There is always a success story for any situation. Some get through the whole stage easily, lucky for them. Some other are bit more complicated. Keep in mind that it is never impossible to be happy in any marriage/relationship.

 

Be strong and good luck.

[Speakingofwhich]

I can try, they're much older than I am, but I'm very close with the family. Basically the BS sister was very ill, and was in poor health for a long time. Her H and sister fell in love while they were taking care of her. I think they came out together after BS sister passed away, so she wasn't around to cause conflict, but there were certainly other family members who were stunned. I met them after they had already been together for at LEAST ten years, and they really are a couple people can envy. They're retired, grandparents (he is stepfather to 2nd wife's child) and they're so sweet and considerate of each other. I know this is a freak success story, but it's amazing to see them.

 

Wow, thanks for sharing, Nattie! I'm so glad the other sister didn't have to know what happened. Yes, that's really a freak story! Can see how it worked out since the sister died.

[Nattie]

"...don't throw this love away because you're scared of change."

 

I think it is enough that you are aware of what you want and its long road ahead. Don't overwhelm yourself by ponder too much on the possibility and the ending. That just make it harder for you to make the change.

 

Plan and act on things one at a time. Start with the small changes that you can make, they will give you the momentum and pile up your courage.

 

It is what you do right now that gives values to you as a person, not what you dream of. Face the challenge. release your H from this unfair and sad situation, prepare your family for the ending no matter how difficult it is. Maybe your AP is looking up to you, show him that you are really into this R.

 

Again, don't worry too much about the ending. There is always a success story for any situation. Some get through the whole stage easily, lucky for them. Some other are bit more complicated. Keep in mind that it is never impossible to be happy in any marriage/relationship.

 

Be strong and good luck.

 

Thank you for this. I may be looking at the situation from the wrong angle. Staying in a marriage that isn't what it should be because I'm terrified of the unknown. It's almost like, this type of R is all I've ever known, since I was a teenager, and I question whether or not better is possible.

[nightmare01]

Personally I think that if you both are really wanting to be together, the best thing to do is just get on with the process of making it happen.

 

Get D papers drawn up and have your BH served. Your AP should do the same for his BW.

 

Get a move on and just get it done. Dont prolong the agony.

[fellini]

Any two people regardless of cicumstance can easily end up together. Gretting together throughInfidelity is not the breaker of the new marriage . Its more likely not to work if the real reasons for marrying an AP are not the same reasons anyone marries anyone. If only one of this new partnership have issues - and I mean emotional, not financial - like lingering unthought or felt out issues with the previous partner, its probably going to fail. The same hapens when two people break up but one of them is just self deceiving that its time to move on.

 

Love is love.

[sunburned]

Yeah...my dad and his affair partner have now been married for 25 years and will be married forever ...but it came at a cost.

 

My father abandoned his children and put all his focus unto his new wife and her 4 children. He got up in court and told a judge he couldn't afford a lot of child support because he had 4 other children to support. So yeah, as Carhill says...If they live in their little selfish bubble and focus on each other...they might have a chance ...and Dad did. Focused on her....her children...and now her grandchildren....to the cost of his own children. He abandoned us...and now could not even have a healthy relationship with us if he tried...we don't trust him or respect him. Oh sure...He's sorry now...now we don't really need him as grown adults...He can cry all he likes - and he does- but it's all crocodile tears in our eyes...too little too late.

 

Can it work? Sure...but someone ALWAYS pays the price. Are you REALLY willing to sacrifice your children? Is he? Your relationship with OM and the welfare of all children are diametrically opposed. You cannot give to one without taking from the other....who will pay the price for you? Who will he choose?

This is a sobering, eye-opening post, TJHIR. They both were. Thank you -- boy the damage my xAP and I could have inflicted on 10 children combined is unconscionable.

 

 

Nattie, you're going to do what you're going to do. I wish you well but as someone else said, I think you are under-estimating the fallout even with younger children.

[Speakingofwhich]

Blending families when children are still living in the home is very difficult whether the marriage is a result of an affair or not.

[Striver]

Thank you for this. I may be looking at the situation from the wrong angle. Staying in a marriage that isn't what it should be because I'm terrified of the unknown. It's almost like, this type of R is all I've ever known, since I was a teenager, and I question whether or not better is possible.

 

At the end of the day, your AP is just another guy, and you are just another woman. The key in identifying whether you two could make it as a long term couple is a more sober analysis of the personal qualities of the two of you. Interests, values, personality traits. Plenty of couples have been in love at one time or another and don't make it.

 

Also the fallout from how your marriages end will make your potential relationship with AP easier or harder.

 

Do you plan to tell your spouses of the affair or keep it a secret? What if the spouses want to reconcile, will there be a token (false) effort towards that, a genuine effort, or will that be refused?

[goodyblue]

My current relationship started as an affair. We were careful to have a plan in place before anything happened. It helped us that even when he left, he got an apartment and we dated. We didn't just rush to live together, and got to really know one another outside of the affair (but honestly, it wasn't different and we're very happy).

 

I think what you said is right though OP, if you're both unhappy, it seems silly to stay in a place that doesn't fulfill you. I know it's scary, but for us it's been very worth it. His children and mine are fine. His kids knew he had been unhappy and while they were sad to see the marriage between their parents end, they understood.

 

If there is any way to get out of your marriages without the BS's finding out, that's the way I'd go. It made it more difficult for his BS and also his place in the community could have been threatened.

 

Good luck OP, I hope you find your peace, whatever that is.

 

I'm a little sick of hearing things like "bubble of selfishness". I guess it goes both ways. In my case the BS tried to get my guy to stay, and she knew he was miserable. For me, THAT was selfish.

[FoolishOW]

Yeah...my dad and his affair partner have now been married for 25 years and will be married forever ...but it came at a cost.

 

My father abandoned his children and put all his focus unto his new wife and her 4 children. He got up in court and told a judge he couldn't afford a lot of child support because he had 4 other children to support. So yeah, as Carhill says...If they live in their little selfish bubble and focus on each other...they might have a chance ...and Dad did. Focused on her....her children...and now her grandchildren....to the cost of his own children. He abandoned us...and now could not even have a healthy relationship with us if he tried...we don't trust him or respect him. Oh sure...He's sorry now...now we don't really need him as grown adults...He can cry all he likes - and he does- but it's all crocodile tears in our eyes...too little too late.

 

Can it work? Sure...but someone ALWAYS pays the price. Are you REALLY willing to sacrifice your children? Is he? Your relationship with OM and the welfare of all children are diametrically opposed. You cannot give to one without taking from the other....who will pay the price for you? Who will he choose?

 

 

This is a wickedly awful scenario and I'm sorry you had to experience this as a child, and apparently still, as an adult. I'm not trying to diminish your point, or your pain, but I wonder, specific to your father, if his despicable abandonment of you and your siblings would have played out any differently had he started his new relationship after being divorced. I'm not condoning affairs in ANY way at all, far from it, I'm simply noting that a situation like this isn't necessarily the result of an affair, as much as the result of an extremely hurtful and reckless man who left his family/children behind for incredibly selfish reasons. There are divorced men/women all across this country who are guilty of the same. Again, that just happened to come to mind when I read your post. I am sorry you've had to experience this from a "father". How incredibly painful for a child.

 

 

DKT3.. I bet your numbers are right on the money. They certainly sound realistic. I guess the only thing I would add is that marriage, in and of itself, still hovers pretty close to a 50% success rate (give or take), which to me, doesn't sound a whole lot better than a "crap shoot" if you think about it, so maybe the most important thought behind any relevant statistic is that life is about making the best decisions you can make, with the circumstances you have, for yourself, and more importantly, for those you love.

[seren]

From reading here and elsewhere it seems the one's most likely to work in the long run are those where the AP had clear guidelines regarding what they would put up with. Most refuse to let the A linger and have clear expectations of the MP to end the, their marriage, sort themselves out and be an 'open' couple before moving in together. There are a few successful relationships on here that began with an A, maybe they can give advice as to what worked.

 

It seems to me that those that are going to leave do so fairly quickly with no drawn out excuses as to why they cannot. I have also read some AP's discuss how they expected the WS to seek IC or at least reflect on why an A was the solution to a poor marriage rather than them leaving. otherwise there is no guarantee that they won't look to fix any future problems by conflict avoidance rather than fixing what is broken.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

This is a wickedly awful scenario and I'm sorry you had to experience this as a child, and apparently still, as an adult. I'm not trying to diminish your point, or your pain, but I wonder, specific to your father, if his despicable abandonment of you and your siblings would have played out any differently had he started his new relationship after being divorced. I'm not condoning affairs in ANY way at all, far from it, I'm simply noting that a situation like this isn't necessarily the result of an affair, as much as the result of an extremely hurtful and reckless man who left his family/children behind for incredibly selfish reasons. There are divorced men/women all across this country who are guilty of the same. Again, that just happened to come to mind when I read your post. I am sorry you've had to experience this from a "father". How incredibly painful for a child.

 

.

 

The whole situation would have played out differently. You only need to read my story to understand the affair and betrayal kicked off a series of events that were out of his control and my own. My mother became nasty, vindictive, desperate and a shadow of her former self as a mother. She later married an abusive man who abused her children, but she was so afraid her would leave her too that she let him discipline us how he saw fit. And when we threatened his job (military) by threatening to report him, she chose him and my sister and I were both kicked out at various times. I lived on the street and group homes. My sister went to foster care. My father never knew these details until just recently. Because he NEEDED to put in 100% into his new relationship, which was founded on lies and distrust, to make it work.

 

BOTH my parents told me that one day I will be grown and out of the house and they will be alone, so no, we do not come first. BOTH parents said "they deserve to be happy", regardless of how we felt or were treated. In both instances our NEEDS were disregarded. I am a parent. My kids come first. Period. Their welfare comes first. Only recently has Nattie started talking about leaving her marriage, and all this wishy washy "what if" talk is exactly the same...putting her own wants above the best interests of her kids. Am I saying stay in a dead marriage? No. But she was not leaving when she started this affair. Now shes checking out of her marriage and giving it all to someone else. And rewriting a bit of history as she goes along. At one stage, she chose a man who she wanted to spend the rest of her life with..a man she deemed fit enough to have children with. These were her choices. Had she put as much work into the father of her children than a cheating liar, she may have a more favourable result for the tiny people she created who have no say. Who have no voice. Who have no choice. Her opening post smacks of entitlement and selfishnes...me me me.

 

I get it. Marriage is hard. My marriage is hard too. Ive even entertained the thought of cheating...but then I look at my children...How could I? I owe it to my kids to try and make it work before chucking in the towel. And it will NEVER get better by having an affair. Nattie knows this too. She just doesn't care.

 

Another anectode - my sister had an affair with a MM that had a DDay and they left their marriages to be together. More than 2 years later, they still attend couples counselling because guess what...she doesnt trust him. He has poor boundaires with women - hes recently been sending me very inappropriate private messages on Facebook. But she also has trust issues. And now they've had a baby. Talk about adding more pressure. They have already cancelled 2 counseling sessions because they are busy with new baby. My sister has already stated that she doesn't think the relationship will go the distance. And shes OK with that...except now there is another tiny person involved. Again, the child will suffer. How freaking sad.

 

I know Im not a BS or a WS, but im tired of seeing children spoken about as if they are inconsequential, or as if they will just have to get over it or deal with it. There is SO MUCH about children and divorce and infidelity that cannot be controlled or predicted. Divorce on me was tough, but infidelity told me as a child that I did not come first (he did) or second (she did) or even third (her kids did). Infidelity taught me that I wasn't even worth trying counselling for. Infidelity taught me that adults can be incredibly cruel and selfish, and sometimes those who are charged with protecting you, will hurt you the most.

 

AT the end of the day...he chose her over us. A co worker her 4 kids, over his 3 precious daughters. They grew up with a father, OUR father, and we didn't. That's the difference with infidelity.