Is it possible...

[Nattie]

The whole situation would have played out differently. You only need to read my story to understand the affair and betrayal kicked off a series of events that were out of his control and my own. My mother became nasty, vindictive, desperate and a shadow of her former self as a mother. She later married an abusive man who abused her children, but she was so afraid her would leave her too that she let him discipline us how he saw fit. And when we threatened his job (military) by threatening to report him, she chose him and my sister and I were both kicked out at various times. I lived on the street and group homes. My sister went to foster care. My father never knew these details until just recently. Because he NEEDED to put in 100% into his new relationship, which was founded on lies and distrust, to make it work.

 

BOTH my parents told me that one day I will be grown and out of the house and they will be alone, so no, we do not come first. BOTH parents said "they deserve to be happy", regardless of how we felt or were treated. In both instances our NEEDS were disregarded. I am a parent. My kids come first. Period. Their welfare comes first. Only recently has Nattie started talking about leaving her marriage, and all this wishy washy "what if" talk is exactly the same...putting her own wants above the best interests of her kids. Am I saying stay in a dead marriage? No. But she was not leaving when she started this affair. Now shes checking out of her marriage and giving it all to someone else. And rewriting a bit of history as she goes along. At one stage, she chose a man who she wanted to spend the rest of her life with..a man she deemed fit enough to have children with. These were her choices. Had she put as much work into the father of her children than a cheating liar, she may have a more favourable result for the tiny people she created who have no say. Who have no voice. Who have no choice. Her opening post smacks of entitlement and selfishnes...me me me.

 

I get it. Marriage is hard. My marriage is hard too. Ive even entertained the thought of cheating...but then I look at my children...How could I? I owe it to my kids to try and make it work before chucking in the towel. And it will NEVER get better by having an affair. Nattie knows this too. She just doesn't care.

 

Another anectode - my sister had an affair with a MM that had a DDay and they left their marriages to be together. More than 2 years later, they still attend couples counselling because guess what...she doesnt trust him. He has poor boundaires with women - hes recently been sending me very inappropriate private messages on Facebook. But she also has trust issues. And now they've had a baby. Talk about adding more pressure. They have already cancelled 2 counseling sessions because they are busy with new baby. My sister has already stated that she doesn't think the relationship will go the distance. And shes OK with that...except now there is another tiny person involved. Again, the child will suffer. How freaking sad.

 

I know Im not a BS or a WS, but im tired of seeing children spoken about as if they are inconsequential, or as if they will just have to get over it or deal with it. There is SO MUCH about children and divorce and infidelity that cannot be controlled or predicted. Divorce on me was tough, but infidelity told me as a child that I did not come first (he did) or second (she did) or even third (her kids did). Infidelity taught me that I wasn't even worth trying counselling for. Infidelity taught me that adults can be incredibly cruel and selfish, and sometimes those who are charged with protecting you, will hurt you the most.

 

AT the end of the day...he chose her over us. A co worker her 4 kids, over his 3 precious daughters. They grew up with a father, OUR father, and we didn't. That's the difference with infidelity.

 

First, thank you everyone for your responses! I appreciate them. As far as the quote... Not all people in A's will abandon their children. MM's dad did the same thing yours did when he was very young, and he still holds a lot of resentment. My dad didn't leave, but was a violent substance abuser. Neither of us could ever be that kind of parent. We thoroughly enjoy being an active part in our kids lives, in fact he's a phenomenal father. I wouldn't WANT someone who could do that to their own children. We've discussed many times that the proper steps and timelines need to be enforced. It's hard enough on kids going through parental separation, the last thing they need is to be exposed to new partners too quickly. We really would try to make all transitioning as smooth as possible. We're not horrible heartless people.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

First, thank you everyone for your responses! I appreciate them. As far as the quote... Not all people in A's will abandon their children. MM's dad did the same thing yours did when he was very young, and he still holds a lot of resentment. My dad didn't leave, but was a violent substance abuser. Neither of us could ever be that kind of parent. We thoroughly enjoy being an active part in our kids lives, in fact he's a phenomenal father. I wouldn't WANT someone who could do that to their own children. We've discussed many times that the proper steps and timelines need to be enforced. It's hard enough on kids going through parental separation, the last thing they need is to be exposed to new partners too quickly. We really would try to make all transitioning as smooth as possible. We're not horrible heartless people.

 

Im not saying you are heartless. Im saying you are choosing OM over your children's welfare.

 

What is best for them is to TRY and work it out with their father and TRY and keep their family intact. You have not done this. You've done the opposite.

 

You have chosen you, and OM, over them. There aint no way to pretty that up Im afraid. You just have.

 

ETA: Your 'active participation' in your children s lives will be halved. That is the first price you will pay, SO you are that kind of parent. And phenomenal fathers do not betray the mother of their children. They just dont.

Edited April 30, 2014 by ThatsJustHowIRoll

[Striver]

DKT3.. I bet your numbers are right on the money. They certainly sound realistic. I guess the only thing I would add is that marriage, in and of itself, still hovers pretty close to a 50% success rate (give or take), which to me, doesn't sound a whole lot better than a "crap shoot" if you think about it, so maybe the most important thought behind any relevant statistic is that life is about making the best decisions you can make, with the circumstances you have, for yourself, and more importantly, for those you love.

 

Marriage success depends a lot on socioeconomic factors and age of first marriage as well. I think for women with a college education who marry 25 or older, the divorce rate is less than 20%. The divorce rate climbs when marriage occurs earlier or income in the family is lower.

 

Since Nattie has been with her H since she was a teenager, things may feel different for her than those of us who started our marriages when we were older. I expect if I had married that young, I might be curious as to what was out there as well.

 

Regardless, once kids enter the picture, the question of "greener grass" should take a back seat.

[Devastated1969]

Yeah...my dad and his affair partner have now been married for 25 years and will be married forever ...but it came at a cost.

 

My father abandoned his children and put all his focus unto his new wife and her 4 children. He got up in court and told a judge he couldn't afford a lot of child support because he had 4 other children to support. So yeah, as Carhill says...If they live in their little selfish bubble and focus on each other...they might have a chance ...and Dad did. Focused on her....her children...and now her grandchildren....to the cost of his own children. He abandoned us...and now could not even have a healthy relationship with us if he tried...we don't trust him or respect him. Oh sure...He's sorry now...now we don't really need him as grown adults...He can cry all he likes - and he does- but it's all crocodile tears in our eyes...too little too late.

 

Can it work? Sure...but someone ALWAYS pays the price. Are you REALLY willing to sacrifice your children? Is he? Your relationship with OM and the welfare of all children are diametrically opposed. You cannot give to one without taking from the other....who will pay the price for you? Who will he choose?

 

I agree with this... My parents wife swapped when I was 13. My mum divorced 10 years later and my dad is still married but only through his complete focus on his new family and his wife's children at the time. My sisters and I literally were erased from my dad's life for 3-4 years while he focused on his new relationship.

 

As a family we have recovered but there are still issues that will always remain and cause stresses and difficulties that cannot be resolved or overcome.

[goodyblue]

Not sure at all the assumptions that the kids would just be dumped for a new relationship. We have not dumped any of our children and they are each part of the new dynamic. I will say, his children are grown, mine are not. More time is spent with my children because of their needs. But we do have good relationship with his children but it is a little less contact because they have their own lives. We are content with our situation. Everyone is better off.

[HermioneG]

First, thank you everyone for your responses! I appreciate them. As far as the quote... Not all people in A's will abandon their children. MM's dad did the same thing yours did when he was very young, and he still holds a lot of resentment. My dad didn't leave, but was a violent substance abuser. Neither of us could ever be that kind of parent. We thoroughly enjoy being an active part in our kids lives, in fact he's a phenomenal father. I wouldn't WANT someone who could do that to their own children. We've discussed many times that the proper steps and timelines need to be enforced. It's hard enough on kids going through parental separation, the last thing they need is to be exposed to new partners too quickly. We really would try to make all transitioning as smooth as possible. We're not horrible heartless people.

 

Have you given thought to the issue that your MM's dad was a cheater, and he is repeating the pattern?

 

Have you thought about what that may do to his kids, and yours? What behavior that is modeling?

 

My spouse also had a dad who cheated. ( as an aside, my spouse has a sibling who cheated, married the AP, and they have been married a long time. Both have had multiple marital affairs.)

 

I fight like heck to make sure my kids learn healthy coping skills and I will

go down swinging trying to guide them into understanding clear boundaries and to make better decisions. I can't imagine anyone wishes that their kids grow up to be able to deceive their spouses and other people.

 

Food for thought. Patterns abound. Your story illustrates tem. Even your mention of a violent father can illustrate a coping issue that you may be demonstrating. Healthy people don't choose deception.

Edited April 30, 2014 by HermioneG

[Nattie]

Have you given thought to the issue that your MM's dad was a cheater, and he is repeating the pattern?

 

Have you thought about what that may do to his kids, and yours? What behavior that is modeling?

 

My spouse also had a dad who cheated. ( as an aside, my spouse has a sibling who cheated, married the AP, and they have been married a long time. Both have had multiple marital affairs.)

 

I fight like heck to make sure my kids learn healthy coping skills and I will

go down swinging trying to guide them into understanding clear boundaries and to make better decisions. I can't imagine anyone wishes that their kids grow up to be able to deceive their spouses and other people.

 

Food for thought. Patterns abound. Your story illustrates tem. Even your mention of a violent father can illustrate a coping issue that you may be demonstrating. Healthy people don't choose deception.

 

I guess I can't tell what makes another person tick, but I don't think so. I think if anything he feels worse about what he's doing because of his father. My H's father was a notorious serial cheater, didn't even try to hide it, and as a result my H is the opposite in every way. I think different experiences affect people in different ways. This isn't that deep, we just love each other. We are completely ourselves, we laugh, we care about each other's feelings, needs, wants. It's refreshing when you've been dealing with someone for so many years who always wants to change something about you.

[HermioneG]

I guess I can't tell what makes another person tick, but I don't think so. I think if anything he feels worse about what he's doing because of his father. My H's father was a notorious serial cheater, didn't even try to hide it, and as a result my H is the opposite in every way. I think different experiences affect people in different ways. This isn't that deep, we just love each other. We are completely ourselves, we laugh, we care about each other's feelings, needs, wants. It's refreshing when you've been dealing with someone for so many years who always wants to change something about you.

 

Haven't you stated in previous posts that your H is a great guy? Or do I have you confused with another person?

 

*eta, I checked. You say your spouse is a really great guy, so that does not mesh with your current descriptions of him. Perhaps you could look at your posting history and see the evolution of your perspective ? You're falling into a trap of comparison that isn't fair to anyone- including yourself.

 

Anyway- no matter. To me- if your MM actually felt bad, he would not perform the behavior he is displaying.

 

I can see you've given this some thought, so I'll not say anything further than I would highly suggest reading up on affair dynamics ( Not Just Friends, Glass) before you go any further, but as always, the choice is yours.

Edited April 30, 2014 by HermioneG

[Nattie]

Haven't you stated in previous posts that your H is a great guy? Or do I have you confused with another person?

 

*eta, I checked. You say your spouse is a really great guy, so that does not mesh with your current descriptions of him. Perhaps you could look at your posting history and see the evolution of your perspective ? You're falling into a trap of comparison that isn't fair to anyone- including yourself.

 

Anyway- no matter. To me- if your MM actually felt bad, he would not perform the behavior he is displaying.

 

I can see you've given this some thought, so I'll not say anything further than I would highly suggest reading up on affair dynamics ( Not Just Friends, Glass) before you go any further, but as always, the choice is yours.

 

Oh he is a great guy! He really is, everyone loves him, I will never deny that, but he and I? We're very different. Views, beliefs, interests...we're opposite in a lot of them and over time has led to degrading one another. He loves me unconditionally, I know that, but he doesn't like the person I am. It's little things, and I think we both walk on eggshells a lot. I WAS considering leaving him before my MM came along, but caved to family pressure telling me to stay. I've known we're not a forever couple for a while now, I just happened to meet someone and fall for them, and the timing couldn't get worse.

[DKT3]

I've known we're not a forever couple for a while now, I just happened to meet someone and fall for them, and the timing couldn't get worse.

 

Maybe this is the problem. Maybe?

[Nattie]

Im not saying you are heartless. Im saying you are choosing OM over your children's welfare.

 

What is best for them is to TRY and work it out with their father and TRY and keep their family intact. You have not done this. You've done the opposite.

 

You have chosen you, and OM, over them. There aint no way to pretty that up Im afraid. You just have.

 

ETA: Your 'active participation' in your children s lives will be halved. That is the first price you will pay, SO you are that kind of parent. And phenomenal fathers do not betray the mother of their children. They just dont.

 

So you think it's better for kids to grow up in unhappy homes with parents who show each other little to no affection? In MM's case nonstop bickering... that's better than letting them witness a separation and down the road seeing their parents happy with someone else? Sorry but I don't agree. I shutter to think what my life would have been like had my mother stayed with my father for the sake of making it work for the kids.

[cocorico]

From reading here and elsewhere it seems the one's most likely to work in the long run are those where the AP had clear guidelines regarding what they would put up with. Most refuse to let the A linger and have clear expectations of the MP to end the, their marriage, sort themselves out and be an 'open' couple before moving in together. There are a few successful relationships on here that began with an A, maybe they can give advice as to what worked.

 

It seems to me that those that are going to leave do so fairly quickly with no drawn out excuses as to why they cannot. I have also read some AP's discuss how they expected the WS to seek IC or at least reflect on why an A was the solution to a poor marriage rather than them leaving. otherwise there is no guarantee that they won't look to fix any future problems by conflict avoidance rather than fixing what is broken.

 

I think this is spot on.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

So you think it's better for kids to grow up in unhappy homes with parents who show each other little to no affection? In MM's case nonstop bickering... that's better than letting them witness a separation and down the road seeing their parents happy with someone else? Sorry but I don't agree. I shutter to think what my life would have been like had my mother stayed with my father for the sake of making it work for the kids.

 

No. I didnt say that. But you're not paying attention anyway because you are going to do what you are going tò do...everyone else be damned. You are now justifying, but admit it...you have not put the work into your marriage. Nowhere have I said stay for the kids. What I have said is you owe it to them to try and make your marriage work. IC and then MC. Clear communication. You werent always the couple you are now,or you wouldnt have married. And stop the affair of course. You do all that and it still doesnt work, then you can look at your kids square I the eye and say 'I tried everything'....Arent they worth it? Dont they deserve it? Nomproblem ever got solved by screwing someone else. Youve made things so much worse. Thats all on you.

 

All I hear isexcuses excuses excuses. They sound pretty BS to me and may sound that way to your kids later.

 

The truth is you dont want to even try...and thats selfish. Own it.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

 

Another anectode - my sister had an affair with a MM that had a DDay and they left their marriages to be together. More than 2 years later, they still attend couples counselling because guess what...she doesnt trust him. He has poor boundaires with women - hes recently been sending me very inappropriate private messages on Facebook. But she also has trust issues. And now they've had a baby. Talk about adding more pressure. They have already cancelled 2 counseling sessions because they are busy with new baby. My sister has already stated that she doesn't think the relationship will go the distance. And shes OK with that...except now there is another tiny person involved. Again, the child will suffer. How freaking sad.

 

Just for the sake of completion, Nattie...thought id update you.

 

My sister found out 2 days ago he cheated on her. With another married woman. Hes only confessed to what she found, which is evidence he had sex with an ex co worker ...he has also had several online EAs which he says were never physical, but hes a cheating liar, so why believe him?

 

My sister is heartbroken and shattered. Her baby is 4 weeks old. This should be the most joyful time of her life. But she chose a cheating liar over a man with honour and integrity...and thats what she got.

 

Their poor little baby

[Poppy's sister]

Nattie,

 

glad you came along

as said before similar situations ...ish

Can you do personal messages ? I am not sure how they work but would like to talk off the forum.

My only advice from my perspective is start now, start making firm steps , because doing it a controlled manner in which you have the ability to talk to your children and husband in a calm manner when you chose. You can decide how you explain this.

DO NOT wait....you have one life

If you wait as my AP and i did, thinking we had all the time in the world, and then you get caught out, it is harder not easier.

People on here say oh if he gets caught and he doesnt then leave for you he doesnt love you etc etc....because if he did and you were planning on ebing together then there is the ideal chance....BUT for us it hasnt been that way.

Leaving in the throes of d-day would have been a disaster, no chance of controlling things, no chance of preparing children slowly for changes.

Now we are in the mire of it all and whatever we do it is going to be an unholy mess.

If I could go back, i would have had the conversation with him and made a plan and then carried it out.

and that plan would have been we both separated and stayed apart from each other for a period of time , and then dated very very slowly, and eventually introduced out children/families as if we had met after separating.

No one would need to know we had met before.

[Poppy's sister]

oh and one more thing...

 

yes i still hope for a happy ever after ....but not sure if will ever get it....hard not to long for and want this so much ...hard to be patient...even OW/OM are human beings !

[Scott Thomas]

Nattie,

 

 

 

Are you being honest with your H?

Is this possible?

You loved him once, enough to walk down the aisle, and swore to protect, cherish and honour him. You say that you still love him a friend. Wife/marital vows aside, can you act like a good friend and practice some honesty? I'm not goading you or trying to pull a rug from underneath your feet. I just can't comprehend the depth of your actions.

 

Why not bring up the idea that you'll allow him to see another woman?

 

On another note,

1. Read "Another sad story with no happy ending" BY Lostfaith.

2. Read "WW's this is some of the damage you have caused. A rant." by Relevations.

 

 

Just food for thought.

 

What do you want? Remaining in this state isn't a good option. The OM or the H? Pick a choice and take the leap of faith.

If the H, forget about the OM, confess and work on becoming the best wife you can become.

If the OM, divorce your H and start a genuine relationship with the OM. If things don't work out, or the OM dumps you, well...sh*t happens....

 

 

As for the question,

yes it s likely but not very common. There's only one way to find out.