Grumpybutfun Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I was thinking about how some people can be poor and have great sorrow and troubles and say they are happy and have a blessed life and how others who have much and very few troubles, such as not having a gf or bf, can say they want to give up, and it made me think about "Man's Search for Meaning," by Viktor Frankl, a man who survived the concentration camps. He said, "We who lived in concentration camps can remember those who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken away from a person but one thing: the last of the human freedoms - to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way." Viktor Frankl How does this apply to our lives.... can we be as strong, as noble, as self sacrificing to give in the jaws of very death? Are we capable as people who live with very few hardships compared to these survivors capable of choosing our own mindset, which is really the gauge of happiness in life or are we determined to live in sadness, fear and self loathing? Can we accept that things sometimes don't work out the way we planned or are we going to reject any form of happiness without getting exactly what we want when we want it? Thoughts? Disagreements that we choose our own happiness, though we do not choose what happens to us. Reflectively, Grumps 8 Link to post Share on other sites
Lani Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I think a lot of this comes down to expectation. Too many people expect too much on a daily basis.. from events, from themselves, from others. If you really get to the heart of that, and understand that what YOU expect is not necessarily what will happen it releases you from the stress and anger of uncertainty. Because everyone has different expectations, and not everyones can be met. Living life without expectation can free your heart and mind to concentrate on the surprise and beauty of reality. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) Can we accept that things sometimes don't work out the way we planned or are we going to reject any form of happiness without getting exactly what we want when we want it? I think we have to accept that not everything works out the way that we want it to, whether we planned it or not. I think in our consumer culture, it's easy to see why (some, not all) people believe that external things like cars, homes, clothes, money, friends, lovers, are the cause of happiness. But these also bring us a lot of suffering. I think happiness and suffering are a side effect of having expectations. It's hard not to have expectations about people or situations either. But expectations are the quickest way to suffering too. So to practice not having expectations -- but patience -- is something I try to work on every day, because I'm by nature a very impatient person. Not being attached to an outcome, not trying to control someone or a situation to be what you want...I think that's the key to inner peace. Just to accept what happens and deal with it by understanding why it happened, the lesson it presented, and learning to "just be." Easier said than done though. When I studied with Buddhist Monks casually the year I taught in China, they constantly reminded me to be patient, because I wanted to learn as much as I could from them. When I eventually slowed down, I was able to understand more clearly the things they tried to teach me. I also met a Holocaust survivor when I did a play about her life in college. She flew from Poland to see the production. We had a reception for her and the cast of the production the day of our opening night. I spent about 20 minutes talking to her privately. She told me that the only reason she survived and that her family didn't is because she accepted her circumstance and refused to surrender to the fear and terror subjected to her on a daily basis for the 3 months she was a prisoner. Her entire family DIED but she survived, became a pediatrician, got married and raised a family. I kept in touch with her via snail mail after that for a year but we lost touch. She was a mentor to me because I'd just lost my dad to cancer, and she really helped me through my grief. Sometimes people come into our lives for a reason. I'm grateful she and the Buddhist monks came into my life. I still have the letters that the Buddhist monks wrote to me after I returned to the states when I finished my year teaching abroad. Edited April 29, 2014 by writergal 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grumpybutfun Posted April 29, 2014 Author Share Posted April 29, 2014 I think we have to accept that not everything works out the way that we want it to, whether we planned it or not. I think in our consumer culture, it's easy to see why (some, not all) people believe that external things like cars, homes, clothes, money, friends, lovers, are the cause of happiness. But these also bring us a lot of suffering. I think happiness and suffering are a side effect of having expectations. It's hard not to have expectations about people or situations either. But expectations are the quickest way to suffering too. So to practice not having expectations -- but patience -- is something I try to work on every day, because I'm by nature a very impatient person. Not being attached to an outcome, not trying to control someone or a situation to be what you want...I think that's the key to inner peace. Just to accept what happens and deal with it by understanding why it happened, the lesson it presented, and learning to "just be." Easier said than done though. When I studied with Buddhist Monks casually the year I taught in China, they constantly reminded me to be patient, because I wanted to learn as much as I could from them. When I eventually slowed down, I was able to understand more clearly the things they tried to teach me. I also met a Holocaust survivor when I did a play about her life in college. She flew from Poland to see the production. We had a reception for her and the cast of the production the day of our opening night. I spent about 20 minutes talking to her privately. She told me that the only reason she survived and that her family didn't is because she accepted her circumstance and refused to surrender to the fear and terror subjected to her on a daily basis for the 3 months she was a prisoner. Her entire family DIED but she survived, became a pediatrician, got married and raised a family. I kept in touch with her via snail mail after that for a year but we lost touch. She was a mentor to me because I'd just lost my dad to cancer, and she really helped me through my grief. Sometimes people come into our lives for a reason. I'm grateful she and the Buddhist monks came into my life. I still have the letters that the Buddhist monks wrote to me after I returned to the states when I finished my year teaching abroad. Wonderful words and so very synergistic with my own right now. I love the idea of mentors and have had many and tried to be good ones for others. Buddhism is such a profound ideology because it Is perfect for releasing ego and that is truly one of the best paths to enlightenment and freedom from self and expectation. It really is about internal choices and how you perceive then deal with difficulties, not the difficulties in themselves. Good chat, Grumps 3 Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) Thanks Grumpy. When I lost my dad to cancer I was 21. I felt like a prisoner of grief. If I hadn't met that Holocaust survivor just mere months after my dad's funeral, well, I wouldn't have recovered as well as I did. The Buddhist monks were SO patient with me. I was a handful as their student. I tested their Buddhist ideologies that year. Haha. It really is about internal choices and how you perceive then deal with difficulties, not the difficulties in themselves. That's exactly what the Buddhist monks said to me, back in 1997. Happiness and Suffering are not caused by external things but are internal mindsets. We cause our own happiness, our own suffering. Not the other way around. It's like that cliche, "wherever you go, there you are." We can escape our circumstances...but never ourselves. Unless you're a Borg... Edited April 29, 2014 by writergal 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grumpybutfun Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Thanks Grumpy. When I lost my dad to cancer I was 21. I felt like a prisoner of grief. If I hadn't met that Holocaust survivor just mere months after my dad's funeral, well, I wouldn't have recovered as well as I did. The Buddhist monks were SO patient with me. I was a handful as their student. I tested their Buddhist ideologies that year. Haha. That's exactly what the Buddhist monks said to me, back in 1997. Happiness and Suffering are not caused by external things but are internal mindsets. We cause our own happiness, our own suffering. Not the other way around. It's like that cliche, "wherever you go, there you are." We can escape our circumstances...but never ourselves. Unless you're a Borg... Very intuitive post. The internal is what drives us...I like the idea that perception is reality but our perception is molded by our attitude. When our friend found out she had cancer, she started healing her heart and embracing the things that were important to her such as friends and family. She really went out and embraced life by doing things on her bucket list but not losing sight of the people she loved by just doing that. She wanted to experience things only if her friends and family wanted to also. I can still remember a long time ago when we took her diving and ended the day in a sharks cage. It was a pretty intense experience and my wife and I were amazed at how she saw the experience...she really saw beauty where some would just see jaws and blood and the fear of the unknown. That reminded me of how she saw death...something beautiful and something to be curious about but not to fear. She made her own happiness and she rejected that suffering was all there was to this side of dying. It was a profound moment when She courageously decided to be happy in spite of certain death. It taught me a lot about how we create our own reality and how we choose our reality. Best, Grumps 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Candy_Pants Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Having a maintaining a positive attitude and outlook is the cornerstone of my life. I had a very..."turbulent" youth. Actually, I never had a youth, it was stolen from me. It caused me to observe others closely and most of what I saw I despised. They could "have it all" and still chose to be miserable and, in a few cases, evil. Then I saw a select few who had nothing but troubles and still remained hopeful and full of light (joy and love). I instinctively knew I had to live like that, or I wouldn't survive. So I poured my energy into finding wonder and amazement. Giving my heart and all my effort to my sister, who needed me more than I needed to be righteously angry. And my life slowly became something I looked forward to living, instead of something I hated. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Very intuitive post. The internal is what drives us...I like the idea that perception is reality but our perception is molded by our attitude. When our friend found out she had cancer, she started healing her heart and embracing the things that were important to her such as friends and family. She really went out and embraced life by doing things on her bucket list but not losing sight of the people she loved by just doing that. She wanted to experience things only if her friends and family wanted to also. I can still remember a long time ago when we took her diving and ended the day in a sharks cage. It was a pretty intense experience and my wife and I were amazed at how she saw the experience...she really saw beauty where some would just see jaws and blood and the fear of the unknown. That reminded me of how she saw death...something beautiful and something to be curious about but not to fear. She made her own happiness and she rejected that suffering was all there was to this side of dying. It was a profound moment when She courageously decided to be happy in spite of certain death. It taught me a lot about how we create our own reality and how we choose our reality. Best, Grumps All of that in bold. I think your friend's perception of life is one that everyone has the capacity to achieve -- to see the beautiful in the ordinary. It's all around us, but our busy lives blur our focus with bills, meetings, conversations, commitments, worries, family, friends, work, etc. Like, the percussionist Evelyn Glennie. She's a deaf percussionist. But like your friend, she can see the beautiful in the ordinary through sound. Listening to music in the world around us, not just inside an amphitheater where an orchestra plays. But as you cross the street, listening to the rhythm of the traffic noises, footsteps around you, people's voices...if you really, really listen, you can hear syncopation, meter, beats, rests, and actual MUSIC in the life around you. And see the beauty of death. I don't like the way Western culture conditions us to fear death, and view it as something evil that happens to us. It's a part of our human condition. We're mortal. If anything, death should invite a celebration of life. I had the chance to watch my father pass away from cancer in our home and it was an interesting experience for me. While my mom and siblings left the room out of fear as he took his last breathes, I stayed behind. My dad was there for my birth, I wanted to be there for him in his death. I owed him that. I didn't want him to be alone. I wanted him to know his oldest child was with him. I think, I hope, he did know. I'm grateful I had that experience. His death was very peaceful. Having a maintaining a positive attitude and outlook is the cornerstone of my life. I had a very..."turbulent" youth. Actually, I never had a youth, it was stolen from me. It caused me to observe others closely and most of what I saw I despised. They could "have it all" and still chose to be miserable and, in a few cases, evil. Then I saw a select few who had nothing but troubles and still remained hopeful and full of light (joy and love). I instinctively knew I had to live like that, or I wouldn't survive. So I poured my energy into finding wonder and amazement. Giving my heart and all my effort to my sister, who needed me more than I needed to be righteously angry. And my life slowly became something I looked forward to living, instead of something I hated. I'm sorry that your youth was stolen from you, Candy. It's not right. And your instinct to have hope for a better life beyond your circumstances is a perfect example of how we create our own reality, how happiness and suffering are internal mindsets under our own control. On some level, you knew that you had the capacity to escape your circumstances for a better life. You believed in yourself. Imagine if we all did that how much easier our lives would be? Edited April 30, 2014 by writergal 3 Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Just because I've never been in a Nazi concentration camp does not mean I have no right to feel miserable. Each of us has our own needs that have differing levels of importance to us. Some of those needs we set ourselves, some of them we don't. The affect of those needs not being met vary depending on the person and how much value they those needs to them. Link to post Share on other sites
Candy_Pants Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Just because I've never been in a Nazi concentration camp does not mean I have no right to feel miserable. Each of us has our own needs that have differing levels of importance to us. Some of those needs we set ourselves, some of them we don't. The affect of those needs not being met vary depending on the person and how much value they those needs to them. You're missing the point. We all have things we wish were different. It's about changing what you CAN, and appreciating the little things. For instance- have you ever felt so happy to be merely alive it felt like you were the sun itself? Have you ever stared in wonder at a butterfly feeding on the nectar of a flower and realizing that this small insect (with an incredibly short lifespan) helps pollinate many plants every single day, helping the cycle of life continue far after its left the earth? Or even let a stranger's small act of kindness create a ripple across your life and taken it upon yourself to be as kind and as beautiful as that one act, for the rest of your life? I have had some true horrors occur in my life. And I don't have it "easy", even now. But my strife doesn't make me who I am, what I've chose to do with that energy DOES. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grumpybutfun Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Just because I've never been in a Nazi concentration camp does not mean I have no right to feel miserable. Each of us has our own needs that have differing levels of importance to us. Some of those needs we set ourselves, some of them we don't. The affect of those needs not being met vary depending on the person and how much value they those needs to them. I know you feel that way, and I know you are in a sad place right now. Don't worry, this isn't meant to be judgment of your pain, SD. This is something you can revisit later when you are in a better place if you choose....if you don't, no worries. In empathy, G 2 Link to post Share on other sites
regine_phalange Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 As my lovely Tom Robbins says, “When you're unhappy, you get to pay a lot of attention to yourself. And you get to take yourself oh so very seriously. Your truly happy people, which is to say, your people who truly like themselves, they don't think about themselves very much. Your unhappy person resents it when you try to cheer him up, because that means he has to stop dwellin' on himself and start payin' attention to the universe. Unhappiness is the ultimate form of self-indulgence.” 3 Link to post Share on other sites
regine_phalange Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 On the other hand, a slight dissatisfaction moves things forward. Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I know you feel that way, and I know you are in a sad place right now. Don't worry, this isn't meant to be judgment of your pain, SD. This is something you can revisit later when you are in a better place if you choose....if you don't, no worries. In empathy, G Perhaps I'm being egotistical, but I feel that I was possibly in your mind when you made this thread. Even if not your statement "how others who have much and very few troubles, such as not having a gf or bf" is very offensive. You have no right to judge somebodies troubles. I have spent the vast majority of my life wishing I would die in my sleep because I felt that nobody would ever love me. That I was worth absolutely nothing and better off dead. It didn't take long for the thoughts of wishing to die in my sleep to return after my ex dumped me. Link to post Share on other sites
quidproquo89 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 it can often be quite difficult to distinguish between being happy with what you have/who you are and what you are doing and striving to make yourself better - opportunities (work, social, financial). I am confident and ambitious, once I get a scent for something I strive for it. Sometimes; we all get this, its hard to know what path to take, because we walk blind. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tayla Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Without realistic expectations we are apt to miss opportunities. I am not a Geared up "The cup is always full person." I surrender to being content and in that...happiness is a lingering mode. How a person chooses to "re-act" to a scenario can indeed play a crucial part in the outcome. I find more glow in life when there is a gratitude. Most moments are happiness fleeting. So its appercaited when it comes around 1 Link to post Share on other sites
FitChick Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 My friend's parents met in a concentration camp and married after the war. He said they told him that Hitler ruined their lives only while they were in the camp. They weren't about to let him ruin the rest of their lives as well. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
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