Would you want to know?

[fellini]

Just picking your brain because your thought process is interesting to me, I'm not trying to dispute the validity of your thoughts, I would like to understand how you arrive at some of them because a few of them don't make sense to me, so maybe I'm missing something.

 

Ill try to answer the more complex questions as best I can.

 

First off, I do not believe Marriage is monolithic. I think each and every M is determined by what people are prepared/capable of putting in, and getting out of it. Of course I believe that there ares some things that form the bases of all marriages: fidelity, honesty, and empathy, not to mention love (whatever that is!). Notice I don't put trust in there. Because my experience has taught me that blind trust is a form of trust we do not think about. That's what makes it blind.

 

ok, sounds almost legit- but how likely is it in your opinion that a person with the personality traits necessary to allow an A to brew in the first place and participate in it for any length of time would be able to make all the personal growth needed to change their way of thinking completely on their own when there are no consequences except self imposed ones? Seems hypothetically impossible, and I've yet to read an example of this happening either.

 

I don't think they have to make ALL the growth. I think person growth is just that, "growth", so what Im saying is the bubble bursts and she returns to the marriage, having learned sufficiently that she no longer wants that A.

 

I can't imagine all those things happening together in reality. I can imagine a

WS

ending an A, deciding it's not worth the risk, and simply not disclosing. Maybe even never doing it again. The part I can't imagine is that same

WS

then taking it a step further and launching a thorough investigation into their own psyche and values and examining WHY they chose an A in the first place- and if somehow they did all that on their own with no catalyst, eventually they would come to some sort of wrestling match with their newly found (or rediscovered) integrity and be overwrought and preoccupied with the ethical dilemma of their ongoing deception to their

BS

. How do you see all this playing out? Do you really think this is all actually possible?

 

This goes back to my issue of growth. Often a WS (especially women I notice) have confidants. These persons can actually act as the stimulus for growth as they try to help them through understanding what they are doing. Men don't generally seem to do this. I haven't read any posts in which a WH discussed the progress of his EA into a PA with a "close friend" who later was able to help him through the damage control and personal change in posture vis a vis the affair. But LS has many many stories about women who do just that. I know my WS had someone, she was incapable of convincing her not to go PA, just as she was incapable of seeing how out of control the EA was. It seems too, that her own life was messed up and she simply wasn't paying close enough attention. And if my WS had chosen a different friend, she would probably had it under control much sooner.

 

assuming a

WS

learned all of these things, how might they justify ongoing continuous manipulation of their spouse by deciding which truths they were or were not capable of handling?

 

This is going to happen whether or not there is disclosure. Each new lie we tell our spouses or families or ourselves is done in the moment. I would call myself massively naive if I said that people, all people do not manipulate by deciding which truths, which details, which versions, which meanings, and what their interlocutors were capable of handling. This is precisely what we all do throughout our entire lives. Human beings are the only animals on the planet that know how to "lie". That said, I'm not saying that they are necessarily deciding FOR and ONLY FOR their spouses.

 

I believe they are also withholding because the MARRIAGE will not survive it. The question is not will the BS survive. Of course we will survive. The question is also, will the marriage survive, will the family survive, will the inlaws survive, will my untarnished career survive, and obviously I am saying that these things involve far more than just the BS. Another question is saying "although I know my spouse will survive, what sort of future am I offering him by telling him something I no longer need to do? no longer need to find out?

 

Yes, I think these are mature questions some WS's actually ask themselves when imagining what it is going to be like disclosing an affair.

 

I can see where you are coming from here. An intelligent person might be more likely to self examine and learn something from their choices in life than a person of average intelligence or a person who isn't very bright. On the other hand, a person with a high IQ could also be more adept at rationalizing and justifying their poor choices with arguments that are (almost) convincing and (almost) logical to a point that they are satisfied with being done thinking about it and can put the tiny voice in the back of their head that says "this thinking I'

m

doing is still wrong" by allowing their overdeveloped ego (which often tends to accompany high IQ) to get in the way

 

Sorry, I didnt intend for that to come off as elitist. Im not at all referring to IQ, Im talking about emotional and social intelligence, intelligence that comes from experience, and the ability to more or less think for oneself. Someone who might come into LS, for example, with a problem, and listen to all the advice, and know how to take away what is useful, discard the rest, and act upon that in their own life. Most people can do this, but certainly there are some who cannot.

 

I don't think there are "good people" and "bad people"-

I agree. I think everyone is a good person. Even if they do bad things. There certainly are lost and/or broken people. But Im talking about people who have been functioning more or less within the paramaters of what some like to call normalcy, and then suddenly find themselves locked in an affair. Not some guy who has a bucket list to screw 1500 women in one year.

 

I think I understand your reasoning on this point, but I'

m

curious how likely you think it is that a person who was in the same predicament as your

WS

during her A- with a similar level of intelligence and capability for justification, would actually be able to suddenly stop, do all the necessary work on herself on her own and simultaneously, clandestinely (not sure if clandestinely is an actual word but I'll google it when I'

m

done typing this) cover up all traces of evidence and carry the burden of her betrayal to the grave? (And explain also how all of this somehow be considered healthy for either

WS

or

BS

) .

In my case completely. She was already with a therapist for several years to handle "energy" issues and depression for work stress. She went to see her IC one week before going PA. He told her to stop, he told her to talk to me about her needs, but not to mention the AP, and why. She did not do this. Because in the end, she was deceiving herself, it was not about needs not being met, it was an infatuation with a man, a kind of upgrade H, and so talking to me was never going to be the answer. She was too deep into her EA to "stop".

If she had the strength to start, and the strength to stop (which she didn't but many WS do) she could have gone right back into IC and get the treatment she needed ANYWAY, because after DDAY, this is precisely what she had to do. She realized her A robbed her of her dignity and she wanted that back more than telling me the 100% truth of the details of her A.

 

So I don't think marriages are monolithic, I think they are more adaptive and flexible than people realise. I think humans have an enormous capacity for change. But I really do not believe that all change from infidelity comes from seeing the BS suffer. I do not think many people have that much empathy. I believe its more self interested. They are ashamed that THEY caused THAT suffering, and do not consider themselves, or thought themselves CAPABLE of doing that much damage to another.

 

Most important for me is that a WS can wake up from an A without the BS knowing, and what they chose to do with this wakeup is about them, not the BS and is the key to their potential to remake themselves in light of the new found information that good people f--k up.

 

Hope that explains your interesting questions.

[dichotomy]

Ya know maybe she was in Rome for a conference, her mom died in a fiery car accident while she was there, she was drunk and a kind young handsome priest new to his celibacy vows... offed her comfort and then .... the next morning she ran to the Vatican for absolution ....throwing her self on the feet of the Pope in tearful agony...for years after this she devoted her self to me and the marriage - taking care of me in everyway.

 

oh forget it - I want to know.

Edited April 29, 2014 by dichotomy

[QuakerOats]

QO, You said,

 

 

 

Do they?

 

This is chance that the cheater takes if they don't disclose. They will have to live with the guilt for the rest of the association. Surely that must impact on their relationship, and their attitude to it ?

 

A psychologist once told me that a guilty conscience will punish you more than anything anyone else can do, or say.

 

I am sure some affairs never see the light of day but not many.

 

 

 

 

I don't know the numbers. This is just from my reading on the OW section. It seems a lot of affairs end without a d day and the WS goes back to the marriage. I assume in many of those scenarios, the affair went undiscovered, but I could be wrong.

[Quiet Storm]

I would want to know, because I feel that secrets block true intimacy.

[QuakerOats]

Quaker-

 

From what I understand the MM in your situation lied to you and claimed he was in the process of a divorce from the beginning of your relationship, but was in fact still living with his wife and had not even filed for a separation. This information was trickle truthed to you over the course of over a year and you were the one to end the A- hopefully I have my facts straight here?

 

Would you rather not know that he was married all this time? Assuming he was able to effectively lie and trick you, all the while still sleeping with his wife and telling her he loves her etc? If eventually down the road he did leave for you, or his wife kicked him out and he ended up with you instead, would you NOT want to know that he had lied to you for all that time?

 

Obviously it's a different situation than a long term married BS never discovering an A but I'm curious what your thought process is on this.

 

 

 

Yes, you have my story correct. And yes, I'd like to know the truth. That is why I never understood my mother's lack of curiosity, but then again, it was a much different day and she is a much different woman.

 

As far as if the affair happened many years prior and was never found out, I think I'd still want to know, and it would certainly raise doubts, but I'm not sure if it would end the marriage. Hard to say.

[QuakerOats]

I would ask, though: If you're suspicious that your spouse had an A, would it be that much worse to have that suspicion confirmed?

 

Personally, I would want to know. If the marriage is in fact "good", I'd like to think that an honest disclosure by my WS wouldn't do that much damage. I wouldn't want her carrying that around for the rest of her life.

 

 

This is a good point. Honest and complete disclosure can certainly go a long way for healing.

[QuakerOats]

I don't know of any BS (who has never engaged in an affair) who thinks that an affair is just a "bump in the road of married life".

 

I have seen some former BSs who then became an OW/OM or MM/MW have this attitude, but it is just used to excuse their behavior as "no big deal".

 

 

I don't think the affair is ever just a "bump" when it happens, but many years after the fact, as in the case of my parents, it doesn't define the marriage. The marriage is made up of many years of good times mixed with bad times, and that is more how it is thought of, rather than a defining crisis. Not trying to minimize the impact of an affair on many people. For many, it is a defining moment in the marriage and it can break the marriage certainly.

[notserene]

There are many times that I wish I didn't know, but I am glad that I do.

 

I feel like I might have been spared pain but then I wouldn't have the truth about my own life.

[BHsigh]

I feel that some people confuse "not wanting to know" with "I wish it never happened", if they didn't know they wouldn't have to deal with it, but that still doesn't make the affair any less true.

 

I personally want to know about any issues that affect me and my life, and my marriage is a part of my life.

 

I don't believe that ignorance is bliss, I prefer knowledge over an easy time.

[salparadise]

I feel like I might have been spared pain but then I wouldn't have the truth about my own life.

 

I'm pretty sure I'd be good with a lifetime of exceptionally nice delusions. The truth delusion is sometimes not so nice.

[BetrayedH]

Ya know maybe she was in Rome for a conference, her mom died in a fiery car accident while she was there, she was drunk and a kind young handsome priest new to his celibacy vows... offed her comfort and then .... the next morning she ran to the Vatican for absolution ....throwing her self on the feet of the Pope in tearful agony...for years after this she devoted her self to me and the marriage - taking care of me in everyway.

 

oh forget it - I want to know.

 

Sorry, just have to say that I thought this was really funny, Dichotomy. Not too many posts make me laugh out loud.

[gaius]

Nobody in their right mind who loves someone would want to know they were cheated on. Unless it was some kind of ongoing issue that put them at serious risk for public embarrassment or STDs.

[fellini]

I feel that some people confuse "not wanting to know" with "I wish it never happened", if they didn't know they wouldn't have to deal with it, but that still doesn't make the affair any less true.

 

I haven't seen that confusion anywhere, especially here, those like myself who say they prefer not to know bend over backwards to explain why. I fail to see where the confusion lies if each of us gives very explicit personal reasons.

 

That said.

 

On the side of those that claim that true intimacy (like everyone has "true intimacy") can only be achieved when the truth is told. I don't buy that one bit. There are lots of secrets in marriages. Secrets are healthy. Some secrets, like infidelity are problematic. None of us lives in a state of total consciousness of our SO. Just not happening. And as humans we pass the vast majority of our lives (our jobs for example) being relatively in the dark about what is going on around us. Some people actually have more vibrant lives in their jobs than in their personal lives, yet they manage. (Not drawing a comparison, Im making a point that people have enormous capacities to adjust to the realities of their existence, and this includes being enlightened or not about everything that matters to them.)

 

If you also look at the stories of infidelities that were not discovered for 20, 25, 30 years: even some of those stories here in LS: these stories reflect that many of those past ENDED affairs resulted in GOOD MARRIAGES.

 

Hey, there are people who have not SUFFERED INFIDELITY who live in really SH--TY marriages. And there are some who have undisclosed infidelities who live in GREAT MARRIAGES (post A) and there are some, disclosed and recovered marriages that are GREAT.

 

I don't see how we can line up our feelings on one side, and put on the other side the effect on the marriage (BAD, GOOD). It doesn't work like that. The only thing we can do is use our experience to say: this happpened to me, and we recovered and this is where we are today. Another couple will say, the same thing happened to us and we are somewhere else.

 

It isn't about the marriage, it's about the people in it. IMHO.

Edited April 30, 2014 by fellini

[BHsigh]

I haven't seen that confusion anywhere, especially here, those like myself who say they prefer not to know bend over backwards to explain why. I fail to see where the confusion lies if each of us gives very explicit personal reasons.

 

That said.

 

On the side of those that claim that true intimacy (like everyone has "true intimacy") can only be achieved when the truth is told. I don't buy that one bit. There are lots of secrets in marriages. Secrets are healthy. Some secrets, like infidelity are problematic. None of us lives in a state of total consciousness of our SO. Just not happening. And as humans we pass the vast majority of our lives (our jobs for example) being relatively in the dark about what is going on around us. Some people actually have more vibrant lives in their jobs than in their personal lives, yet they manage. (Not drawing a comparison, Im making a point that people have enormous capacities to adjust to the realities of their existence, and this includes being enlightened or not about everything that matters to them.)

 

If you also look at the stories of infidelities that were not discovered for 20, 25, 30 years: even some of those stories here in LS: these stories reflect that many of those past ENDED affairs resulted in GOOD MARRIAGES.

 

Hey, there are people who have not SUFFERED INFIDELITY who live in really SH--TY marriages. And there are some who have undisclosed infidelities who live in GREAT MARRIAGES (post A) and there are some, disclosed and recovered marriages that are GREAT.

 

I don't see how we can line up our feelings on one side, and put on the other side the effect on the marriage (BAD, GOOD). It doesn't work like that. The only thing we can do is use our experience to say: this happpened to me, and we recovered and this is where we are today. Another couple will say, the same thing happened to us and we are somewhere else.

 

It isn't about the marriage, it's about the people in it. IMHO.

 

The people in the marriage are what makes the marriage. Like I've said before though, I guess I expect more out of marriage than that, I would be horribly unhappy in a marriage that you describe.

 

And secrets have no place in a marriage, unless that marriage is being defined like a teenaged relationship.

 

Secrets are anathema to me, I have no secrets that I keep from my wife, and I expect the same from her.

Edited April 30, 2014 by BHsigh

[BHsigh]

10 characters

Edited April 30, 2014 by BHsigh

[PinkInTheLimo]

I would want to know, even years after. And it would most probably mean the end of the marriage.

I was less radical before I was the OW of an MM for a while. He lured me into the relationship by telling me a lot of lies (I did not know he was married). Because there were so many lies I snooped and found out that for years he had had several affairs. His wife did not have a clue. I was the one who told her what I had found out (which certainly was not the whole truth because there must have been more).

The situation was so schizophrenic: on the one hand the good family guy, on the other hand a serial cheater. If I would not have searched for the truth noone would ever have known. She decided to stay with him but now at least she knows (that is if she actually looked at the proof I sent her - she asked me to do so).

 

I would never be able to tolerate that my husband had had that kind of double life, even if it is years away. I find it extremely scary that someone I am living with has a totally secret life for me. To be capable of this is for me the indication of a very sick mind, and I don't want to have to do anything with such a person. I myself I am a complete person, I can only be mentally and emotionally in one spot and I want to be with someone who functions like me.

[Betterthanthis13]

 

There are lots of secrets in marriages. Secrets are healthy. Some secrets, like infidelity are problematic. None of us lives in a state of total consciousness of our SO. Just not happening.

 

Secrets are not healthy. They aren't unhealthy either- They are a choice. If an action someone takes is a healthy action that is contributing to their happiness, or their spouse's happiness (or the happiness of the marriage as a separate entity) then there is no need for said action to be a secret.

 

Secrets are kept out of shame, or not wanting to deal with consequences, or wanting to continue an unhealthy activity, not wanting to hurt someone's feelings etc. Secrets involve lying, whether by outright lies or lies of omission.

 

Then there is the argument about how lies are not always bad- you can lie to yourself about how awesome you are in order to psych yourself up for something, which in turn gives you the courage to perform better and achieve a goal, you can tell a white lie to someone to encourage them, etc etc

 

The choice to tell a lie or keep something a secret doesn't have a good/bad value on its own, it really depends on the reason for the lie/ secret in the first place. Is the reason something that will result in happiness?

 

To drastically simplify, you seem to argue that it is potentially healthy for a WS (and by extension AP and whoever else knows about it) to keep an A secret from a BS (if a few conditions are met) because it might ultimately cause less harm to the marriage (and/or BS) than telling would.

 

That argument is technically valid as far as I know, but it seems to me to be unsound because it presupposes many things that are variable and disputable, such as what love is, what happiness is, and what the purpose of a marriage is.

 

I believe you when you say you would rather have not known about the A and had your W go through all the personal growth necessary on her own to get back to a place where she could be present in your marriage, I think that you truly believe that would have been the better option, and is the better option for others in certain cases under certain conditions. The question is, why would it be better for a BS/marriage? I think it would only be better if the actual goal of the marriage was to create the illusion of happiness, not to work together as a unit towards real happiness. But that is just my opinion.

 

I think that under all your arguments about why you wouldn't have wanted to know is a profound sadness, and a restless mind that is trying very hard to rationalize the irrational in the name of self (and marriage) preservation. What it says to me is that you really love your wife, and will go through whatever mental gymnastics necessary to come up with alternative solutions to this horrible event. Again, just opinion, I could be wrong.

[fellini]

Secrets are kept out of shame

 

Then there is the argument about how lies are not always bad

 

 

To drastically simplify, you seem to argue that it is potentially healthy for a WS (and by extension AP and whoever else knows about it) to keep an A secret from a BS (if a few conditions are met) because it might ultimately cause less harm to the marriage (and/or BS) than telling would.

 

 

I think that under all your arguments about why you wouldn't have wanted to know is a profound sadness, and a restless mind that is trying very hard to rationalize the irrational in the name of self (and marriage) preservation. What it says to me is that you really love your wife, and will go through whatever mental gymnastics necessary to come up with alternative solutions to this horrible event. Again, just opinion, I could be wrong.

 

No. Secrets are not always bad. That just cannot be. We all know this to be not true, just as we all know that secrets are not always about shame.

 

Lies are not always bad. We all know this as adults. We tell our children, "It's very bad to tell a lie", which is, in itself, a lie. Because we all lie about things, big or small, during our lives. How can any skill set that we have, ONLY be bad? From a pure logic point of view, that just cannot make sense. Lies are tools, language is a tool. These are part of our tool sets and how we use them is more important than THAT we use them. If it is impossible for you to imagine how a LIE might be good, or a SECRET not shameful, or not good, then we can't really have a conversation about things which have no possibility for flexibility and interpretation can we?

 

I don't know about profound sadness or restlessness of mind. I think I can be sad my wife had an affair, whether I wanted to know or not.

 

The point is this: someone asked if we would prefer not to have known.

I say yes. I told my wife either on DDAY or the day after, I wish she had just ended it herself and not told me. Why did she have to put the entire thing on ME if at the end of the day she didnt want to leave me, wanted to end it, and fix her marriage. I still believe this today. This is why I say it, not because of mental acrobatics. It is how I felt then, and it is how I feel now.

 

In the end I have to have confidence that my wife is capable of individual insight, change, and commitment. Otherwise I wouldn't be in this for the long run.

[WasOtherWoman]

I believe that, with age, comes perspective.

 

Being a BW all those years ago, I immediately ended the marriage when I learned of my then-husband's infidelity. I mean REALLY.. he cheated on ME???? I was in my twenties, a professional women who taught a 6 am aerobics class on the side, you could bounce a quarter off of my butt.... I mean who cheats on that, right? Sooooo naive, I was. Have to say though, I was probably more mad than hurt.

 

Year later, married to the man of my dreams for almost 15 years, just keeps getting better every day.

 

I am happy. If he had an affair, it was over and he wasn't in love with her and leaving me, do me a favor and don't tell me. Please.

[Betterthanthis13]

I believe that, with age, comes perspective.

 

Being a BW all those years ago, I immediately ended the marriage when I learned of my then-husband's infidelity. I mean REALLY.. he cheated on ME???? I was in my twenties, a professional women who taught a 6 am aerobics class on the side, you could bounce a quarter off of my butt.... I mean who cheats on that, right? Sooooo naive, I was. Have to say though, I was probably more mad than hurt.

 

Year later, married to the man of my dreams for almost 15 years, just keeps getting better every day.

 

I am happy. If he had an affair, it was over and he wasn't in love with her and leaving me, do me a favor and don't tell me. Please.

 

Would you prefer now to never have learned of your 1st husband's cheating and still be married to him, never knowing he cheated?

[BHsigh]

No. Secrets are not always bad. That just cannot be. We all know this to be not true, just as we all know that secrets are not always about shame.

 

Lies are not always bad. We all know this as adults. We tell our children, "It's very bad to tell a lie", which is, in itself, a lie. Because we all lie about things, big or small, during our lives. How can any skill set that we have, ONLY be bad? From a pure logic point of view, that just cannot make sense. Lies are tools, language is a tool. These are part of our tool sets and how we use them is more important than THAT we use them. If it is impossible for you to imagine how a LIE might be good, or a SECRET not shameful, or not good, then we can't really have a conversation about things which have no possibility for flexibility and interpretation can we?

 

I don't know about profound sadness or restlessness of mind. I think I can be sad my wife had an affair, whether I wanted to know or not.

 

The point is this: someone asked if we would prefer not to have known.

I say yes. I told my wife either on DDAY or the day after, I wish she had just ended it herself and not told me. Why did she have to put the entire thing on ME if at the end of the day she didnt want to leave me, wanted to end it, and fix her marriage. I still believe this today. This is why I say it, not because of mental acrobatics. It is how I felt then, and it is how I feel now.

 

In the end I have to have confidence that my wife is capable of individual insight, change, and commitment. Otherwise I wouldn't be in this for the long run.

 

I'm not saying that you're wrong for feeling that way at all, but to me marriage is a partnership, we are supposed to work with our spouses. An affair is a huge issue in the marriage, and it deserves to be worked on by both partners. It is highly unfair to not let your partner know what you are capable of letting yourself do.

 

Perhaps your wife just needed help, even though she should have sought it out before having an affair. That's what we're supposed to do with our spouses, we love and care for them, we need to be with them to help them when needed as well. If your spouse truly just dumped all this on you for you to take care of, then I belive that you should have reacted differently. Like I said, marriage is a team effort, and you carrying the entire decision to reconcile isn't a team effort, it's truly no wonder that you feel like you do about confession.

 

My wife tried to pull the same thing on me, one time very early on when we were talking, she asked why I was staying, so I told her because I love her and think that we can work through this. When I asked her the same thing, she said that she wanted to see what I would do. That was one of many points that led me to give up and decide on a divorce, there was no way that I was going to do all of the work by myself after she had an affair, after that her tone changed compeltely and she was 100% involved in trying to save our marriage, then we were able to work on it together.

[WasOtherWoman]

Would you prefer now to never have learned of your 1st husband's cheating and still be married to him, never knowing he cheated?

 

No, but not because I would prefer to be married to him. Back then, I was a pretty crappy wife, I have to admit. (NOT that I am taking responsibility for his cheating, please note). I think in general that marriage was probably not meant to be.

[fellini]

Perhaps your wife just needed help, even though she should have sought it out before having an affair. That's what we're supposed to do with our spouses, we love and care for them, we need to be with them to help them when needed as well. If your spouse truly just dumped all this on you for you to take care of, then I believe that you should have reacted differently. Like I said, marriage is a team effort, and you carrying the entire decision to reconcile isn't a team effort, it's truly no wonder that you feel like you do about confession.

 

When I said my wife dumped it all on me, I am speaking of the affair, not the reconciliation. That we have done together (and apart as one of us is the BS and other the OW).

 

What my wife did to me was to sit down, after I suddenly asked about something I found on her Ipad (a week before but being blind it slipped my mind until that day), and say to me: I am seeing someone.

 

Just writing those 4 words made me stop for a few minutes.

 

Essentially what followed (in the next hours/day) was that she was leaving all the decisions up to me, to tell her to stop, to tell her to get out, to scream, to shout, to ask her what now. She had no idea what she was going to do telling me that. So it was a disclosure without any idea of what was to follow - she didn't even know if she was going to end it! That was the first thing I asked her: Are you prepared to end this now? and her answer was NOT yes.

 

I walked out. Left her about 2 hours alone to think about it, while I sought support from friends, and when I returned. I had to ask again, and then she said Yes. Our post DDay discussions revealed that at no time telling me did she have a plan. Just put it out there and see if my H can survive, and see what he wants to do about MY A!...

 

To this day I believe if I had kicked her out, she would have gone straight to the AP. Maybe she was even hoping I would do that (Exit affair), or maybe she was so lost (Langley's Limbo) or wanted us both (Brown's Split-self affair). Ill never really know. What I do know is that I was not the primary relationship at that moment (she had just returned hours before from his apartment for mid-day lovemaking and he told her he loved her) and that even when she said yes, I later saw that it was a panic response when she saw the house of cards coming down on her and every single professor in the university was going to know that she and the Vice-dean were POS scumbags who cheated on a perfectly innocent man and his 9 year old daughter.

Edited April 30, 2014 by fellini

[fellini]

My wife tried to pull the same thing on me, one time very early on when we were talking, she asked why I was staying, so I told her because I love her and think that we can work through this. When I asked her the same thing, she said that she wanted to see what I would do. That was one of many points that led me to give up and decide on a divorce, there was no way that I was going to do all of the work by myself after she had an affair, after that her tone changed compeltely and she was 100% involved in trying to save our marriage, then we were able to work on it together.

 

WOW! So similar. Later I asked my wife about her change of mind about the affair. She said "you won me over". and I am like? Noooooo. I walked out on you, nothing was said. I won no one over. But she said later (like 2 weeks of living in hell later) when I saw how you handled it, you conquered me again.

 

I thought I had conquered her 17 years ago! I could have sworn I was a nicer guy to be around BEFORE DDAY than after immersed in PTSD.... Go figure.

[BHsigh]

When I said my wife dumped it all on me, I am speaking of the affair, not the reconciliation. That we have done together (and apart as one of us is the BS and other the OW).

 

What my wife did to me was to sit down, after I suddenly asked about something I found on her Ipad (a week before but being blind it slipped my mind until that day), and say to me: I am seeing someone.

 

Just writing those 4 words made me stop for a few minutes.

 

Essentially what followed (in the next hours/day) was that she was leaving all the decisions up to me, to tell her to stop, to tell her to get out, to scream, to shout, to ask her what now. She had no idea what she was going to do telling me that. So it was a disclosure without any idea of what was to follow - she didn't even know if she was going to end it! That was the first thing I asked her: Are you prepared to end this now? and her answer was NOT yes.

 

I walked out. Left her about 2 hours alone to think about it, while I sought support from friends, and when I returned. I had to ask again, and then she said Yes. Our post DDay discussions revealed that at no time telling me did she have a plan. Just put it out there and see if my H can survive, and see what he wants to do about MY A!...

 

To this day I believe if I had kicked her out, she would have gone straight to the AP. Maybe she was even hoping I would do that (Exit affair), or maybe she was so lost (Langley's Limbo) or wanted us both (Brown's Split-self affair). Ill never really know. What I do know is that I was not the primary relationship at that moment (she had just returned hours before from his apartment for mid-day lovemaking and he told her he loved her) and that even when she said yes, I later saw that it was a panic response when she saw the house of cards coming down on her and every single professor in the university was going to know that she and the Vice-dean were POS scumbags who cheated on a perfectly innocent man and his 9 year old daughter.

 

Ah, my apologies for misunderstanding that.

 

And nevermind about the rest, I was getting confused, lol.