Author Partlys4int Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 Partlys4int, Why do you think it's not moral to talk about what's happening and yet it's moral to get together and marinate in the actual romantic tension that oozes around the two of you bringing both of you pleasure? It's OK to experience it, just not OK to talk about it? As of now, nothing has happened: no kiss (only formal), no holding hands, no intimate hugging,...nothing. The romantic tension is something one can not as easily control, so I just keep my distance according to my own set of principles. If I ask her out for coffee, that'd be wrong for two reasons: 1) We both know we aren't just feeling merely amical with each other. So this act gets a whole other meaning than just two friends getting a cup of coffee together. 2) If I ask her about her intentions towards me I basically force her to compose herself and form a plan about what is happening. So when there was just her and her boyfriend, with me playing a role in the shadows somewhere, there'd be suddenly two routes that I created. I'd not only possibly push her towards a decision, a decision no committed woman should make, but also incept even more doubts in her mind about her current relationship. For the moment I would have said that, I'd have acknowledged that I am indeed, an option she could choose. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 It's not a very moral thing to do... Then walk away. If you are attracted to her, want to have an emotional/physical relationship with her, but she's with someone else...and you want to do the moral thing...then end your friendship with her, and get out of her life so that you don't present a risk to her current relationship. It's THAT simple. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
sunburned Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Partlys4int, Why do you think it's not moral to talk about what's happening and yet it's moral to get together and marinate in the actual romantic tension that oozes around the two of you bringing both of you pleasure? It's OK to experience it, just not OK to talk about it? Yes, this is exactly what I was trying to say in my previous post. Speakingofwhich said it better! But Fellini basically confirmed his hunch that the OP would rather "live in a halo of romance" than get some concrete answers. OP, you said it yourself: "If I ask her about her intentions towards me I basically force her to compose herself and form a plan about what is happening. So when there was just her and her boyfriend, with me playing a role in the shadows somewhere, there'd be suddenly two routes that I created." Yes, precisely! We were under the impression you wanted this settled. It would appear you like living in the gray zone. Carry on and let us know how it works out! Edited May 1, 2014 by sunburned typos 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 OP...are YOU currently in any kind of relationship? Have you posted here before? Your situation and your posting style seem familiar now that I think about it, although I could be mistaken. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Partlys4int Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 Then walk away. If you are attracted to her, want to have an emotional/physical relationship with her, but she's with someone else...and you want to do the moral thing...then end your friendship with her, and get out of her life so that you don't present a risk to her current relationship. It's THAT simple. Easier said than done. We're following classes together, working on projects,... OP...are YOU currently in any kind of relationship? Have you posted here before? Your situation and your posting style seem familiar now that I think about it, although I could be mistaken. No, I am not. If I were I'd never expose myself to romantic signals. But I was naieve, before I knew it I was in. And only later did I know about her bf. And no, I'm completely new here. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Partlys4int Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 Yes, this is exactly what I was trying to say in my previous post. Speakingofwhich said it better! But Fellini basically confirmed his hunch that the OP would rather "live in a halo of romance" than get some concrete answers. OP, you said it yourself: "If I ask her about her intentions towards me I basically force her to compose herself and form a plan about what is happening. So when there was just her and her boyfriend, with me playing a role in the shadows somewhere, there'd be suddenly two routes that I created." Yes, precisely! We were under the impression you wanted this settled. It would appear you like living in the gray zone. Carry on and let us know how it works out! Most of all, I want to be close to her. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Easier said than done. We're following classes together, working on projects,... That my friend, is just an excuse to allow you to continue your immoral thoughts/actions/behaviors. If you want to do the right thing...leave her alone and get out of her life until she's free to be with you in the way that you desire. Best for her, best for you, best for her BF as well. Anything less is simple selfishness on your part. No, I am not. If I were I'd never expose myself to romantic signals. But I was naieve, before I knew it I was in. And only later did I know about her bf. And no, I'm completely new here. Thanks for the clarification, and apologies for confusing your story with anyone else's. Link to post Share on other sites
Speakingofwhich Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 As of now, nothing has happened: no kiss (only formal), no holding hands, no intimate hugging,...nothing. The romantic tension is something one can not as easily control, so I just keep my distance according to my own set of principles. If I ask her out for coffee, that'd be wrong for two reasons: 1) We both know we aren't just feeling merely amical with each other. So this act gets a whole other meaning than just two friends getting a cup of coffee together. 2) If I ask her about her intentions towards me I basically force her to compose herself and form a plan about what is happening. So when there was just her and her boyfriend, with me playing a role in the shadows somewhere, there'd be suddenly two routes that I created. I'd not only possibly push her towards a decision, a decision no committed woman should make, but also incept even more doubts in her mind about her current relationship. For the moment I would have said that, I'd have acknowledged that I am indeed, an option she could choose. is there possibly a third reason not to talk about it?: 3) If you talk about it together you both may be forced to acknowledge what's happening between the two of you and one or both of you may decide to end your dalliance. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Partlys4int Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 That my friend, is just an excuse to allow you to continue your immoral thoughts/actions/behaviors. If you want to do the right thing...leave her alone and get out of her life until she's free to be with you in the way that you desire. Best for her, best for you, best for her BF as well. Anything less is simple selfishness on your part. I agree, I feel selfish about this. Until I oppose it to her behaviour, which is of another degree. Remember, it's she who started this all. As for staying away: I'm trying. Oh yes, I'm trying. 1,5 months left and all this ends and I can only guess - but suspect I will be left with a hole in my chest- what she's up to before never seeing me again. is there possibly a third reason not to talk about it?: 3) If you talk about it together you both may be forced to acknowledge what's happening between the two of you and one or both of you may decide to end your dalliance. That, ofcourse, plays in my mind. I'd rather just let this all slip by and never see her again than end it so decisively. It's one thing not being with her, but being scratched from her 'romantic list' so to speak, would be devastating. Link to post Share on other sites
Speakingofwhich Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Ten characters Edited May 1, 2014 by Speakingofwhich Link to post Share on other sites
fellini Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 As for staying away: I'm trying. Oh yes, I'm trying. 1,5 months left and all this ends and I can only guess - but suspect I will be left with a hole in my chest- what she's up to before never seeing me again. That, ofcourse, plays in my mind. I'd rather just let this all slip by and never see her again than end it so decisively. It's one thing not being with her, but being scratched from her 'romantic list' so to speak, would be devastating. You should understand that, as with anyone struck with limerence, and you definately fall into that syndrome, NOT TALKING ABOUT what is going on FEEDS the limerence even MORE... You are in a bubble. Talking about what is going on will help burst that bubble and the two of you can get back to finishing your final projects without constantly imagining the sex you are not having! Limerence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Link to post Share on other sites
Author Partlys4int Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 You should understand that, as with anyone struck with limerence, and you definately fall into that syndrome, NOT TALKING ABOUT what is going on FEEDS the limerence even MORE... You are in a bubble. Talking about what is going on will help burst that bubble and the two of you can get back to finishing your final projects without constantly imagining the sex you are not having! Limerence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia First part in bold: I doubt it. I just doubt it. Second part: it goes so much further than that. I've been in love before, but she's the first woman I just think about in this tender way. I don't imagine her in a very sexual way often, I just imagine her being close to me. Link to post Share on other sites
fellini Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) First part in bold: I doubt it. I just doubt it. Second part: it goes so much further than that. I've been in love before, but she's the first woman I just think about in this tender way. I don't imagine her in a very sexual way often, I just imagine her being close to me. Look carefully, limerance is NOT about SEX, it's about LOVE. Attachment, Obsession. Whether or not you imagine sex with her, you cannot stop thinking about her. Everything she does, is a message to you about your feelings for her. When you start to hear a song on the radio, and it reminds you of her, or when you are doing something and you say, "I wonder what she would think about that", these are also very much limerance. As a university student I remember asking a girl to "study together" on the weekend. She said yes. Of course she must be attracted to me!!! Or was it that the exam was next week and she wanted a study partner? You would not believe the number of male University Faculty who MISTAKE when an attractive young woman walks into their office asking if they would be their supervisors to believe that this means she finds him ATTRACTIVE. It never occurs to them that this is a human being who has come to visit because HE is an expert in a field SHE wants to be an expert in too. She needs a supervisor, she chooses him. Before long he is hitting on this unsuspecting girl, who a) now also begins to think they are "soul mates" because he has been telling her for months how "brilliant" she is (read: I love your breasts and I would love to lick them), or b) then has to file a sexual harassment suit against her supervisor for making inappropriate comments or physically touching her. THis happens so often in campuses around North America that it has become a cliche. Limerance has a powerful effect because it does NOT NEED physical connection to nurture it. Most people in limerance do NOT FORCE their limerant object to DECLARE their feelings because they want the limerance to continue. It feels too good to want it to end. Many people stay in limerance for years. They don't want to burst the bubble. And it is a "bubble", it's a fantasy. It's all in your HEAD. Edited May 2, 2014 by fellini Link to post Share on other sites
Author Partlys4int Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 ... It's all in your HEAD.... Hey Fellini. I really appreciate your view on the matter and you taking the time to help me out. But could you just go with the premise that it's not in my head? Consider this as a given. She has very strong feelings for me, atleast when I'm with her. I just can't tell how strong (compared to her other feelings) or how wanted these feelings are. Link to post Share on other sites
fellini Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Hey Fellini. I really appreciate your view on the matter and you taking the time to help me out. But could you just go with the premise that it's not in my head? Consider this as a given. She has very strong feelings for me, atleast when I'm with her. I just can't tell how strong (compared to her other feelings) or how wanted these feelings are. When I say it's all in your head, its because it is in your head where you live through your emotional life with her. By your own admission, you two are doing nothing physically with each other. You find yourselves thrown together because of your school commitments, and you get this chemistry between you. Correct? You say she has feelings, but you have not discussed those feelings. She is not carressing you, you are "getting" those feelings BEING IN HER PRESENCE. Now I don't know in what faculty you are studying but if it were in psychology you would know that everything you know about this girl is obviously inside your HEAD. Nothing is actually moving between you two physically. And this thing we call chemistry BETWEEN two people is not actually what it seems to be. THERE IS NOTHING BUT AIR between you two. What is happening is that thinking about her, and being in her presence is ACTIVATING a chemically induced state of "being in love" (or limerance): specifically the creation of brain levels of testosterone, dopamine, seratonin, oxytocin, and vasopressin. (The later two come from long term attachment, so you might be only experiencing huge concentrations of dopmaine and testosterone (brain, not in your "active parts") and that is what we call chemistry. It produces a high similar to taking Cocaine. Im not going to ask you if you know that high. I have tried cocaine, and I know the feeling it produces. It's pretty damned exciting to be on cocaine. These are not opinions, they are based in neurological studies performed by scientists on the chemistry of love. The only way to stop this is to interrupt them at the level of the BRAIN. If you are not going to move forward on this girl you have to do something about continuously feeding these chemicals to your body. Because when she leaves at the end of term, the chemicals are not going to stop: the thoughts are IN YOUR HEAD, and are activating these chemicals. It's not her that is activating them, it is YOU. You are mirroring her and she is mirroring you. Let me put it to you this way: If I was a member of your class, and I entered the room, and she smiled at me, I would smile back and say Hi, how are you? How was your weekend. When you enter the room, and she smiles the very same smile, you see a woman who is as attracted to you as you are to her. This is what we mean by its in your head. It doesn't mean it's not real, it's about processing external stimulus. She isn't "giving" you love, you are creating the effect yourself. And the exact same thing is happening to her. That is why we call it mirroring. Edited May 2, 2014 by fellini Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hey Fellini. I really appreciate your view on the matter and you taking the time to help me out. But could you just go with the premise that it's not in my head? Consider this as a given. She has very strong feelings for me, atleast when I'm with her. I just can't tell how strong (compared to her other feelings) or how wanted these feelings are. Are you only wanting advice that tells you what you want to hear, or are you looking for advice to help you resolve this situation one way or another? If you're just wanting to be told that she loves you like you love her, and go ahead, it doesn't matter that she's in a committed relationship with someone else...you don't need anyone's permission. You can do that right now by simply ignoring the advice your giving here and not posting again. If you're wanting some HONEST advice from folks trying to help you...start by not trying to limit what they're saying to fit what you want to hear. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Partlys4int Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) I appreciate your advice. From everyone here. It's very kind to even try to grasp this situation and type an elaborated opinion on this. Thank you for that. But there's just some things that I can't quite nuance enough. I wish I could show you some footage from my POV or something lol. I already am quite familiar with the chemical processes that happen to persons in love or otherwise Fellini, but thank you anyway. I surely keep this advice in the back of my head (especially from Owl, fellini- who help me to balance my brain- and from decipleoflove- whom I consider a brother in arms) . As hard as I try to balance things out and be rational, other perspectives sure come in handy and will help me develop a better hold of the situation and decide how far I can go or how far I need to retreat. At heart, I am very driven by my own set of principles that are- to some, so I've heard- sometimes a little too empathetically defined or, as you wish, 'soft'. In these last couple of months I have started to believe, and this thread has helped to polish that belief, I ought to move forward (or backward) from a utilitarian perspective now. Thank you again, all of you. Edited May 2, 2014 by Partlys4int Link to post Share on other sites
Confusion_Reigns Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 You can spend eternity wondering or you can ask. She's going to do what she's going to do. Either way. If you ask you're not creating a second choice for her, it's already there. She's already thought of that choice otherwise she wouldn't be sending the signals that she's interested in you. Really, I think it all boils down to if you want to take a chance or not. That doesn't mean that you cross that line and if it's an EA now then that lines already been crossed. No matter what you say or do SHE is going to decide what SHE is going to do with whatever you share with her. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
fellini Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 You can spend eternity wondering or you can ask. She's going to do what she's going to do. Either way. If you ask you're not creating a second choice for her, it's already there. She's already thought of that choice otherwise she wouldn't be sending the signals that she's interested in you. Really, I think it all boils down to if you want to take a chance or not. That doesn't mean that you cross that line and if it's an EA now then that lines already been crossed. No matter what you say or do SHE is going to decide what SHE is going to do with whatever you share with her. Exactly. He is mirroring her, and it might turn out that the only thing is she finds him HOT. She imagines being with him, but will never do it. Or she is waiting for him to make the move, and wondering what is taking him so long she is beginning to think he is gay. Now that she thinks he is gay, she can be safe and flirty with him.... anything in the world can be going on in her mind, but he thinks that she thinks what he is thinking is what she is thinking. Classic mirroring. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Partlys4int Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) Exactly. He is mirroring her, and it might turn out that the only thing is she finds him HOT. She imagines being with him, but will never do it. Or she is waiting for him to make the move, and wondering what is taking him so long she is beginning to think he is gay. Now that she thinks he is gay, she can be safe and flirty with him.... anything in the world can be going on in her mind, but he thinks that she thinks what he is thinking is what she is thinking. Classic mirroring. So you're saying there are indeed women, who stay in a relationship until they've found a 'better' partner? This is mindboggling to me, I could never fathom the idea. Oh, and I already made clear that I'm not gay. I told her the story of a gay intern hitting on me once and me gently deflecting his attempts. Edited May 3, 2014 by Partlys4int Link to post Share on other sites
KaliLove Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 How do you know she has these strong feelings for you? Has she told you? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Partlys4int Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) How do you know she has these strong feelings for you? Has she told you? I could give you a list of examples (and there are already some in this thread) but let me just say that I've had my fair share of women who were in love with me and made it clear. This one is, by far, the most obvious one. I'm embarassed, proud, flattered and my heart grows fonder at the same time when she's in one of our class night outs standing next to me (seeking my proximity, leaning towards me, dooey eyes,...). I'm afraid the others might talk to me about it, well knowing she has a boyfriend. Ofcourse I can never be sure. As fellini and others pointed out. She might as well be crazy for all I know lol It'd be very loveable craziness, that's for sure. Edited May 3, 2014 by Partlys4int Link to post Share on other sites
KaliLove Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 None of the things listed in this thread are solid proof that she has feelings for you. Looks can be misinterpreted. As for standing next to you or wanting to talk to you..she probably just knows that you have a crush on her and it makes her feel good so she encourages it by flirting with you. But if she really liked you as much as you think she does, she would leave her boyfriend. There's no reason for her to stay with him if she loves someone else..they're not married, they have no children together..what's keeping her there? I think you are misinterpreting her intentions. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Partlys4int Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 None of the things listed in this thread are solid proof that she has feelings for you. Looks can be misinterpreted. As for standing next to you or wanting to talk to you..she probably just knows that you have a crush on her and it makes her feel good so she encourages it by flirting with you. But if she really liked you as much as you think she does, she would leave her boyfriend. There's no reason for her to stay with him if she loves someone else..they're not married, they have no children together..what's keeping her there? I think you are misinterpreting her intentions. I'm keeping my distance. Also, yes looks can be misinterpreted. But do know that I act stoic when we're in company of others. She doesn't gain anything out of it. Link to post Share on other sites
KaliLove Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I'm keeping my distance. Also, yes looks can be misinterpreted. But do know that I act stoic when we're in company of others. She doesn't gain anything out of it. You might think you're acting stoic but it might be obvious to her or others around her. I still think you're just an ego boost to her and nothing else. There are plenty of other fish in the sea..why not go find a single one? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts