Absurdism

[jonsnuh]

I haven't finished reading all of Albert Camus' work, but it makes me wonder if this can really be a way of life.

 

I'm quite sure my ex was the Don Juan, or seducer, who lived in the moment and to take life as it is. Her behaviour was close to that of a libertine. It can be contrasted against Christianity where there is a right or wrong standard.

 

The core idea I agree with is that I may never figure out and accept what my purpose in life might be. But instead of the futile workings of arguing what is right or wrong with theories, could it be better to just accept the meaningless of life without having to commit suicide. In this sense, is this not living in ignorance, because life is short? Does this 'innocence' absolve me of my wrongdoings as seen by other religions or society? Is claiming that life is too short for these religious struggle or conflict valid? Is this not selfish? What is being selfish and is there a hierarchy?

[Ebman]

I haven't read any of his works. You seem to have a lot of questions for a 25 year old however I reckon your though processes will only mature in about 4 years time.

 

The human experience is by nature a heavy one. Personally I like to seek out the path that feel the lightest to me. You have time on your hands to expend on the heavy questions of life. As you move on in life you'll find that it's the small acts of kindness towards other that gives meaning to your human experience. At the end of the day we are all just walking each other home.

[jonsnuh]

I haven't read any of his works. You seem to have a lot of questions for a 25 year old however I reckon your though processes will only mature in about 4 years time.

 

The human experience is by nature a heavy one. Personally I like to seek out the path that feel the lightest to me. You have time on your hands to expend on the heavy questions of life. As you move on in life you'll find that it's the small acts of kindness towards other that gives meaning to your human experience. At the end of the day we are all just walking each other home.

 

To be honest, I feel I am running out of time and there are things that I am doing apart from all of this. But these thoughts have been gnawing on me, and I feel I need a sense of direction. There are many obligations and expectations that I missed out on being in a relationship with my ex and post-breakup.

 

I have read Dorian Gray, but as much as the work has given me the answer that his fate does not bode well, my ex had left wondering if people like herself really do not succumbing to their own faults and weaknesses. The answer I figured out is some do, some don't.

 

I think a lot of these questions are happening now, because I thought I had them answered as I grew up as a Christian. I know this might not be pertinent, but I thought that if I were to become a strong believer, I needed to: wipe away doubts, and challenge my values and beliefs so that if I could even more strongly live a Christian life. I began to see myself more as a humanist.

 

I still retain many of the core values that make a good person in my life. However, I could not help but think and realize that I missed many opportunities that my peers had taken the liberties to, in order to get ahead of others like myself. What does one take to live this life when how and what we do is relative between human beings?

[Smilecharmer]

I haven't finished reading all of Albert Camus' work, but it makes me wonder if this can really be a way of life.

 

I'm quite sure my ex was the Don Juan, or seducer, who lived in the moment and to take life as it is. Her behaviour was close to that of a libertine. It can be contrasted against Christianity where there is a right or wrong standard.

 

The core idea I agree with is that I may never figure out and accept what my purpose in life might be. But instead of the futile workings of arguing what is right or wrong with theories, could it be better to just accept the meaningless of life without having to commit suicide. In this sense, is this not living in ignorance, because life is short? Does this 'innocence' absolve me of my wrongdoings as seen by other religions or society? Is claiming that life is too short for these religious struggle or conflict valid? Is this not selfish? What is being selfish and is there a hierarchy?

 

 

 

Considering Camus' life, the fact that he was a war correspondent, often in the front lines in France, and also the sufferer of periodic, toxic tuberculosis made his search for meaning amidst the certainty of death rather remarkable. His idea was that there was no great meaning, only random events that ultimately led to death and as such he didn't place great importance in trying to have a coherent purpose or meaning for life. Except, through his philosophy, it made people understand that death was more of a spiritual tool than just concentrating on living....some people that really took that idea and ran with it were Ayn Rand and the founders of the Spiritualist Movement in the 1950s. Ayn Rands " We the Living" was a perfect example of a book about wartime efforts to try to find meaning in life and yet finding the absurd in that notion. By examining the absurd, people actually could find their own meaning without assigning any external value to it so it became liberating for many. Camus, who was a philosopher with a possibly deadly illness and inside the walls of a war obviously thought about death a great deal, but his absurdism wasn't to claim death as unimportant but to view it beyond our physical manifestation, beyond God, beyond the absurd man and his limited or unlimited rules which never quite encompasses the entire human experience.

In other words, he was thinking out loud about how absurd each of our ideas were, including his own. We make our own meaning from our own values, and we live those with a simple heart and expectations that being who we are is enough.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Smilecharmer

[jonsnuh]

Considering Camus' life, the fact that he was a war correspondent, often in the front lines in France, and also the sufferer of periodic, toxic tuberculosis made his search for meaning amidst the certainty of death rather remarkable. His idea was that there was no great meaning, only random events that ultimately led to death and as such he didn't place great importance in trying to have a coherent purpose or meaning for life. Except, through his philosophy, it made people understand that death was more of a spiritual tool than just concentrating on living....some people that really took that idea and ran with it were Ayn Rand and the founders of the Spiritualist Movement in the 1950s. Ayn Rands " We the Living" was a perfect example of a book about wartime efforts to try to find meaning in life and yet finding the absurd in that notion. By examining the absurd, people actually could find their own meaning without assigning any external value to it so it became liberating for many. Camus, who was a philosopher with a possibly deadly illness and inside the walls of a war obviously thought about death a great deal, but his absurdism wasn't to claim death as unimportant but to view it beyond our physical manifestation, beyond God, beyond the absurd man and his limited or unlimited rules which never quite encompasses the entire human experience.

In other words, he was thinking out loud about how absurd each of our ideas were, including his own. We make our own meaning from our own values, and we live those with a simple heart and expectations that being who we are is enough.

 

I think I read somewhere that the theory of the atom influenced many philosophers' of the time including Camus. To some, it is even arguable that he was not a philosopher, but rather a person who just felt that there was likely no definite answers from existentialists.

 

What I am trying to figure out is how to live life, along the lines of say carpediem, or #yolo. I don't think people should live life recklessly and isolate their decision making with myopia, but should not one get the most out of their lives knowing that their lives could change significantly at any moment beyond their control, in a sense have their past or present 'die' when faced with failure-- to bounce bank as a rebirth/metamorphosis into something greater?

 

I have faced depression and contemplated suicide in the past, how easy it would be to leave this world. Cowardice? Perhaps, but I feel many people faced with this decision need to consider what Camus had encountered: living without meaning in life is possible, and so is dying with meaning. Suicide should not be the absolute response to a lack of meaning in life.

 

Making our own meaning from our own values, does not answer to the question of conflicting values and expectations that I could have with another individual, though.

[Smilecharmer]

Perhaps it doesn't, but it is a start. If you do not know what you value, how can you line your expectations up with someone else's and find some meaning in your bond with them? If you are talking about not finding meaning as an absolute, perhaps you are looking to someone else to provide their own meaning to your life or up to make your life be perceived as meaningful. You only live once and carpe diem are usually very well for people who already have meaning or purpose but not for those who feel adrift in life without anything concrete holding them to this plane of existence. Are you looking for purpose or meaning in life or are you determined to not find any due to a predetermined value you place on death?

[angel.eyes]

A lot of tough, thoughtful questions tucked into your OP!

 

I haven't finished reading all of Albert Camus' work, but it makes me wonder if this can really be a way of life.

To a certain extent, Camus lived his beliefs in his own life. Others have too. There are always consequences to our choices, however, both societal and personal, even when we live solely in the moment. That includes whether we ultimately feel at peace and connected to others, or detached, alienated, empty, and meaningless. For example, would you ever want to be Meursault, even if he somehow escaped jail and execution?

 

The fact that most human effort is devoted in some way to building and maintaining relationships (or at least attempting this) suggests that most of us want some connection to others. We want to mean something to someone. So we struggle to attain that. Have you read any of de Beauvoir's novels?

 

What I like about Camus, is not just his skill as a storyteller, but also that his stories are compelling and richly layered like an onion. Peeling the layers forces self-reflection about what I believe, what I value, what gives my life meaning, and why we even exist. I especially liked L'Etranger and La Peste for that.

 

I'm quite sure my ex was the Don Juan, or seducer, who lived in the moment and to take life as it is. Her behaviour was close to that of a libertine. It can be contrasted against Christianity where there is a right or wrong standard.

I suspect that what troubles you most about the experience is your ex' seemingly callous disregard for your feelings? I don't know anything about your back story, so I might be completely wrong.

 

At any rate, most societies, Christian or not, have standards of right and wrong. I would argue that any relatively stable group develops standards and rules by which everyone plays, and creates consequences for group members who don't.

 

I think it's critically important when seeking a relationship, to find someone who shares your life philosophy and values-- in other words, an individual who wants the same things you do and will "play" by the same rules.

 

The core idea I agree with is that I may never figure out and accept what my purpose in life might be.

Life is a journey. It's a moving video rather than a snapshot in time. Not sure of your age, but your thinking will probably evolve over time. Mine has. With experience, I've come to answers I'm comfortable with for myself. Just because you aren't certain of an answer today, doesn't mean that you won't eventually come to one that feels right for you. Also, after you've found answers, you'll still find yourself revisiting the same questions. I lost someone very close to me a few years ago (my first personal loss and totally unexpected). I was thrown for a loop, and had a hard time with "meaning of life" questions all over again. I've come full circle again.

 

But instead of the futile workings of arguing what is right or wrong with theories, could it be better to just accept the meaningless of life without having to commit suicide.

That's one option. Another is to figure out and define what life, meaning, and happiness mean to you, and then ensure that whatever these entail gets reflected in your life. That's the route I'm taking. The option you suggest would leave me hopeless, depressed, and empty. I'm a "glass half full" optimist, so that would never work for me. My suggestion gives me the option to feel fulfilled, happy, and satisfied with my life...despite bumps and frustrations along the way.

 

We all have to figure out what we believe, what we value, and what if anything, gives our lives meaning. For me, that's my family, my community, and my sense of purpose. I'm contributing positively to the world I live in, even if it's forgotten in a generation or in a few days. It's the interconnectedness I have with others I'm close to and the fact that we are interdependent and enjoy a shared history. It's also my faith, and the fact that I believe there is more than the very transient time we spend living our current lives.

 

In this sense, is this not living in ignorance, because life is short? Does this 'innocence' absolve me of my wrongdoings as seen by other religions or society?

No. "I didn't know" is not a "get out of jail" card regarding consequences in any system. You struggle and suffer the results of your choices until you have an epiphany, become "enlightened," and change your behavior.

 

Is claiming that life is too short for these religious struggle or conflict valid? Is this not selfish? What is being selfish and is there a hierarchy?

I think even if you eliminate religion from it, you still end up with the same questions and dilemmas!

 

Selfishness, like beauty, can be in the eye of the beholder. I'll stop now, instead of starting a new treatise on the meaning of selfishness.

Edited May 6, 2014 by angel.eyes

[angel.eyes]

To be honest, I feel I am running out of time and there are things that I am doing apart from all of this. But these thoughts have been gnawing on me, and I feel I need a sense of direction. There are many obligations and expectations that I missed out on being in a relationship with my ex and post-breakup.

You're treating life as if it were a sprint. It's not. It's a marathon. Life is a series of experiences. Who we are, is in part a result of the varied experiences we have. For me, I focus on the lessons I can extract from each experience--good or bad. You took what you thought was the best path based on what you knew at that point in time. Hopefully, you've grown in some way from each choice. Let the rest go. Dwelling on "what ifs," harboring regrets about what you may have missed, remaining frustrated or angry with others (who aren't even in your life anymore) simply holds you back from living your life fully in the present and the future.

 

Have you seen the movie Sliding Doors?

 

I have read Dorian Gray, but as much as the work has given me the answer that his fate does not bode well, my ex had left wondering if people like herself really do not succumbing to their own faults and weaknesses. The answer I figured out is some do, some don't.

You mentioned that you were Christian...or were once Christian. Peter was rebuked a few times for worrying about what God was going to do to others. He was told to focus on his own fate.

 

Your ex is your ex. Leave her in your past, where she belongs. Let her worry about her life and figuring out what she wants or needs. You need to focus on you. If you were unhappy with the way she treated you, figure out why you stuck around instead of leaving sooner. What warning flags did you miss or choose to ignore, and why? What could you have done differently? That's way more productive than worrying about when she might get hers, have some epiphany, change her behavior, etc. She's out of your life. Figure out how you can avoid making the same mistakes again. If we don't learn from history, we're doomed to repeat it. Besides, you can't move forward as long as you remain mired in your past with her.

 

I think a lot of these questions are happening now, because I thought I had them answered as I grew up as a Christian. I know this might not be pertinent, but I thought that if I were to become a strong believer, I needed to: wipe away doubts, and challenge my values and beliefs so that if I could even more strongly live a Christian life. I began to see myself more as a humanist.

You'll revisit the same questions many times. Questioning why you believe what you believe isn't necessarily a sign of weak faith. The first time I really questioned the meaning of life, I was a teenager, hurt to discover that a "long-time" "friend" was simply taking advantage of me and my generosity. I was reading Flaubert and Sartre at the time, who while very different both raise questions about moral relativism and beg the question, "What's the point?" in their novels.

 

I've revisited the same questions many times, each time the result of some life event...each time from a slightly different angle and a somewhat more experienced perspective. My basic belief and value systems haven't changed so far, although my understanding of human nature and motivation has been sharpened significantly. That impacts who I allow into my life.

 

I still retain many of the core values that make a good person in my life.

How do you define a good person? This was one question I spent a lot of time tackling. We all do good and bad things to others, no matter how pure or well-meaning our intentions. Why do we have a tendency to define ourselves as good while seeing clearly how others hurt us? What do the terms good and evil mean to you?

 

However, I could not help but think and realize that I missed many opportunities that my peers had taken the liberties to, in order to get ahead of others like myself. What does one take to live this life when how and what we do is relative between human beings?

In what way(s) have others gotten ahead of you? How do you define success? What are your goals for your life? Be careful not to become a hungry ghost. Life isn't a competition. If you live it as such, down the road, you will end up a very unhappy, dissatisfied person, who will feel that the life you led had no meaning. Seek to be the best version of you, rather than better than person XYZ.

 

Understand what matters to you and what brings you true happiness. Make sure to focus on those things. Worry less about measuring yourself against others. In the end, no good comes of such comparative exercises.

[jonsnuh]

You're treating life as if it were a sprint. It's not. It's a marathon. Life is a series of experiences. Who we are, is in part a result of the varied experiences we have. For me, I focus on the lessons I can extract from each experience--good or bad. You took what you thought was the best path based on what you knew at that point in time. Hopefully, you've grown in some way from each choice. Let the rest go. Dwelling on "what ifs," harboring regrets about what you may have missed, remaining frustrated or angry with others (who aren't even in your life anymore) simply holds you back from living your life fully in the present and the future.

 

Have you seen the movie Sliding Doors?

 

 

You mentioned that you were Christian...or were once Christian. Peter was rebuked a few times for worrying about what God was going to do to others. He was told to focus on his own fate.

 

Your ex is your ex. Leave her in your past, where she belongs. Let her worry about her life and figuring out what she wants or needs. You need to focus on you. If you were unhappy with the way she treated you, figure out why you stuck around instead of leaving sooner. What warning flags did you miss or choose to ignore, and why? What could you have done differently? That's way more productive than worrying about when she might get hers, have some epiphany, change her behavior, etc. She's out of your life. Figure out how you can avoid making the same mistakes again. If we don't learn from history, we're doomed to repeat it. Besides, you can't move forward as long as you remain mired in your past with her.

 

 

You'll revisit the same questions many times. Questioning why you believe what you believe isn't necessarily a sign of weak faith. The first time I really questioned the meaning of life, I was a teenager, hurt to discover that a "long-time" "friend" was simply taking advantage of me and my generosity. I was reading Flaubert and Sartre at the time, who while very different both raise questions about moral relativism and beg the question, "What's the point?" in their novels.

 

I've revisited the same questions many times, each time the result of some life event...each time from a slightly different angle and a somewhat more experienced perspective. My basic belief and value systems haven't changed so far, although my understanding of human nature and motivation has been sharpened significantly. That impacts who I allow into my life.

 

 

How do you define a good person? This was one question I spent a lot of time tackling. We all do good and bad things to others, no matter how pure or well-meaning our intentions. Why do we have a tendency to define ourselves as good while seeing clearly how others hurt us? What do the terms good and evil mean to you?

 

 

In what way(s) have others gotten ahead of you? How do you define success? What are your goals for your life? Be careful not to become a hungry ghost. Life isn't a competition. If you live it as such, down the road, you will end up a very unhappy, dissatisfied person, who will feel that the life you led had no meaning. Seek to be the best version of you, rather than better than person XYZ.

 

Understand what matters to you and what brings you true happiness. Make sure to focus on those things. Worry less about measuring yourself against others. In the end, no good comes of such comparative exercises.

 

It seems like I have a bit of catching up reading to do before I answer. Thanks for now!

 

I have not watched Sliding Doors, although I do get the concept of it.

[angel.eyes]

No rush...and no reading assignments imposed. I was simply responding to your questions and thoughts about the intersection of morality, humanism, and absurdism.

 

Given your focus, the playwright, Jean Anouilh, might also interest you. I especially liked Le Voyageur sans bagage and Le Bal de voleurs. His later plays (Antigone, etc.) are also good, but I found them somewhat depressing.

[jonsnuh]

No rush...and no reading assignments imposed. I was simply responding to your questions and thoughts about the intersection of morality, humanism, and absurdism.

 

Given your focus, the playwright, Jean Anouilh, might also interest you. I especially liked Le Voyageur sans bagage and Le Bal de voleurs. His later plays (Antigone, etc.) are also good, but I found them somewhat depressing.

 

I've thrown everything in my ever growing GoodReads 'will read list'. the backlog is horrendous

 

I'll definitely look at these! Thank you!

[Candy_Pants]

Hi . I felt the same restlessness, during the time I was gaining independence from my family. During my "youth" my life was not my own. All my independent thoughts, and actions, held great consequences, so I stuffed them down, and kept them to myself. They fermented and became something they weren't originally. They became this absolute need to rebel.

 

Luckily, I somehow knew which lines I could not cross, and I didn't. But all other lines, I did. Towing the line of danger, and in some cases death, was an aphrodisiac of sorts. I felt extraordinarily alive, and yet I had numbed myself in order to deal with these situations.

 

As I matured I distanced myself from the situations and people that I once embraced. Instead, I became closer to mother nature and my true self. Then, in my best "YOLO" moment, I moved to another country. It changed my life. And while there I was able to get to know myself in ways I could've never previously imagined. I bloomed, and slowly, I no longer wanted to "feel alive" by towing the line of death and life.

 

Lots of beauty and poetry came out of that period of my life. But I much prefer the life I have now, where I am the beauty and the poetry.

[angel.eyes]

I've thrown everything in my ever growing GoodReads 'will read list'. the backlog is horrendous

 

I'll definitely look at these! Thank you!

 

I stopped using Goodreads because they were spamming me. I can assure you though that my Amazon wish list is just as horrifically long! That's before my board on Pinterest, my virtual bookshelf at my library's website, my physical "to read" bookshelves at home, the cancerous pile on my nightstand, the lengthy list on my smartphone, and numerous lists on my laptop. I'm positively buried!

[angel.eyes]

...Then, in my best "YOLO" moment, I moved to another country. It changed my life. And while there I was able to get to know myself in ways I could've never previously imagined. I bloomed, and slowly, I no longer wanted to "feel alive" by towing the line of death and life.

 

Lots of beauty and poetry came out of that period of my life. But I much prefer the life I have now, where I am the beauty and the poetry.

 

I think travelling to another country and living there is one of the best ways to discover yourself. It helps you figure out who you are and what really matters in life to you!

[todreaminblue]

I want to study philosophy and theology quite badly ........the thing is that goes against me living a simple life a happy one writing childrens books reaching to children simply with hope.......

 

 

 

maybe that wanting to study is only because my ancestory involves philosophy and i want to feel closer to my ancestory to know how my ancestor thought and what one in particular believed in......because his words and writings are quite beautiful....centred around spirituality, family and the grace we were given to be simply human

 

 

i have always believed in carpe diem......sieze the day ...because tomorrow is not known.....in seizing that day though i believe it should not be seized if it causes torment or pain for someone else to feel.....i believe in selflessness and being in service of others....neglected others in particular ...i also believe in protection of human rights......

 

 

i don't think anyone should seize the day to cause hurt to someone else.....i have felt pain ......often people who really hurt others have been hurt themselves its a cycle...like your don juan guy...

 

 

i dont intend to continue the abuse cycle it stops with me...just because i have been hurt it makes me want to prevent stop and see people who are hurting not create more hurt in the world....carpe diem that way for me...because i dont have long to do so.....i know that.......and i wont even try to understand why i have had pain like i have or why i can never say goodbye and then beat myself up when i dont say goodbye to others who have passed ....some of them family who suffered painful deaths..it makes me cry thats why..... i want to see and feel things i have learned and appreciated along the way remember not the pain .....but the love i have felt for others and them for me now and past and future...not the ones ones who set out to hurt me and destroy my happiness the ones who made me different....for the very best of reasons not the worst............i wish you well on your journey.......i hope you enjoy the view ....be it in a philosophical book...or out there touching others hearts.....be well and do well by others......best wishes..deb

Edited May 8, 2014 by todreaminblue

[The Like Fairy]

The human experience is by nature a heavy one.

 

Personally I like to seek out the path that feel the lightest to me.

 

You have time on your hands to expend on the heavy questions of life.

 

As you move on in life you'll find that it's the small acts of kindness towards other that gives meaning to your human experience.

 

At the end of the day we are all just walking each other home.

 

Awesome.

[jonsnuh]

I feel this is a point in my life where I have freedom, yet huge consequences will occur with what path I take.

 

I have been less successful than other people, so much to the point where my direction has been fuzzy. My values and beliefs have been shaken with just philosophy and my ex. In some ways, I hate that skepticism has overpowered everything in my life. I feel like Sisyphus, about to accept that my life is likely to be mundane, underpaid, and to revel in broken dreams that only contrast the happy memories of the past.

[littleplanet]

I think I read somewhere that the theory of the atom influenced many philosophers' of the time including Camus. To some, it is even arguable that he was not a philosopher, but rather a person who just felt that there was likely no definite answers from existentialists.

 

What I am trying to figure out is how to live life, along the lines of say carpediem, or #yolo. I don't think people should live life recklessly and isolate their decision making with myopia, but should not one get the most out of their lives knowing that their lives could change significantly at any moment beyond their control, in a sense have their past or present 'die' when faced with failure-- to bounce bank as a rebirth/metamorphosis into something greater?

 

I have faced depression and contemplated suicide in the past, how easy it would be to leave this world. Cowardice? Perhaps, but I feel many people faced with this decision need to consider what Camus had encountered: living without meaning in life is possible, and so is dying with meaning. Suicide should not be the absolute response to a lack of meaning in life.

 

Making our own meaning from our own values, does not answer to the question of conflicting values and expectations that I could have with another individual, though.

 

I put it to you:

A successful life can be measured by how much that person was loved, and by how many.

But - what if this well-beloved could not love back? Or love at all?

Then what does the love they inspired really mean?

 

On the other hand, if reversed, then it becomes a successful life measured in how much one has loved. (And what if they are not loved back? Does it add up to the same? Or is it truly reversed?)

 

Can meaning in life be interpreted in terms of humanity?

We are born human, of course.

But can we live in such a way as to become 'more' human?

And can this be measured?

And if so, by what standard of measurement?

 

Is your belief truly your own, or a held up mirror to beliefs that went before?

 

Like characters in novels of our own creation, we decide at any given moment an appropriate response to any circumstance.

Yet in clear moments of blind and primal response, we are sometimes most alive to our own inner reality.

And so the dance of humans becomes a social discourse.

Meaningless?

Who decides?

 

When a thing 'feels' true.....is it ever true by fact?

(Or does this need a human stamp of validation?)

 

Can a childhood sense of wonder be preparation for questions without answers?

Is what you perceive your reality to be at any moment - relative to everyone else's?

 

Fear, depression, despondency......are all emotional acts.

So is great joy.

Meanwhile happiness is the thing we contend to pursue.

Yet we find at times, a thousand dollars' worth does not add up to what a nickel provided. How is that?

 

Long ago, I found one of the hardest things to do in life - is truly laugh at myself.

Now that I'm older, I realize that this only works when I get the joke!

[writergal]

Are you familiar at all with the comedy of Eddie Izzard? I highly recommend you watch his videos on YouTube. I think you'd like him.

 

Here's a little taste.

 

I feel this is a point in my life where I have freedom, yet huge consequences will occur with what path I take.

 

I have been less successful than other people, so much to the point where my direction has been fuzzy. My values and beliefs have been shaken with just philosophy and my ex. In some ways, I hate that skepticism has overpowered everything in my life. I feel like Sisyphus, about to accept that my life is likely to be mundane, underpaid, and to revel in broken dreams that only contrast the happy memories of the past.

[umirano]

I haven't read any of his works. You seem to have a lot of questions for a 25 year old however I reckon your though processes will only mature in about 4 years time.

 

I'm I the only one who thinks that's arrogant to say? I think we'd be better off if more of the 25yo had this type of questions. Even if they don't find a satisfying answer. Most of what makes us hate each other as humans is people making claims all over the place in an attempt to camouflage the fact that they do not know the answer. The effort goes into defending (emotionally mostly) the answer, instead of scrutinizing the evidence for the answer.

 

I don't see how the OPs post implies a lack of maturity.

[umirano]

I feel this is a point in my life where I have freedom, yet huge consequences will occur with what path I take.

I don't think that's true. Yeah everybody tells us all the time that the things we decide will have a huge influence. But first, what reason do we have to think that we really decide freely in the first place? And secondly, with regard to the scale of the consequences, even if we assume that you really have some willful influence on the consequences, I'm sure you'd also agree that many factors outside of your influence have huge consequences, and to expand this thought a little, maybe there are even more factors outside your influence than inside, so, you really don't have that much power over your fate, even if we assume that you can profoundly change the course of your life just by making the "right" decisions.

I have been less successful than other people, so much to the point where my direction has been fuzzy. My values and beliefs have been shaken with just philosophy and my ex. In some ways, I hate that skepticism has overpowered everything in my life. I feel like Sisyphus, about to accept that my life is likely to be mundane, underpaid, and to revel in broken dreams that only contrast the happy memories of the past.

 

This deserves a full quote, as I feel very much the same. I'm resorting to materialism and looking for a soul-mate (which I think my ex is, but she's just that right now, so...). I also try to be kind to my close ones and I'm trying to find a way to make money that doesn't rob me of self-respect and that isn't to dull intellectually. It ain't that easy.

 

OP, maybe take a look at

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynicism_(philosophy)

Edited June 12, 2014 by umirano

[umirano]

I'll try to offer a more positive view

I have been less successful than other people,

Define success.

so much to the point where my direction has been fuzzy.

Having a fuzzy direction can be contrasted with being "unsuccessful" how? If you end up happy somewhere all the detours were necessary. Detours increase the knowledge of the area, no?

 

My values and beliefs

What do you believe and why?

 

have been shaken with just philosophy and my ex.

Did your ex question your beliefs or make you drop previous beliefs?

In some ways, I hate that skepticism has overpowered everything in my life.

Meh, think deep, would you really rather be a sheep, not seeing through the curtains? Life may look a little more dull or bleak, now that the fairies that religions offer are seen for what they are. The cobwebs of lies fed to us to think that there's more than living and having a good life here, making it a good life for ourselves and our close ones are cleared away, and I find it empowering. It lets me focus on the important things:

 

• Being here for my family and friends
  
• Learning as much as I can. Arts, Science, languages
  
• Having a good time, doing things I like
  

And not waste my time with meaningless debates, with people who don't care for an educated discussion. I've freed up an incredible amount of time in my life by not participating in debates with people who emotionally defend answers they like instead of investigating their reasons carefully in the first place. It also took away a lot of my worries (political, social questions).

 

I feel like Sisyphus, about to accept that my life is likely to be mundane, underpaid,

If you have a talent, something that you love doing and that makes money, your problem is already solved, you just have to go all the way. Because no number, however high, on a paycheck can reimburse you for the time wasted on something you don't like, makes you feel like you lie to yourself or even worry that it's outright evil.

 

and to revel in broken dreams that only contrast the happy memories of the past.

Create new happy memories. And pursue your dreams. Realizing them is all you will ever get. There is no paradise waiting for you. You are responsible for your own happiness. Adapt your dreams to your capabilities or vamp up your capabilities to match your dreams. relative total Happiness = realized dreams / unrealized dreams. Simple.

 

I'm not there either It's just easy for me to write it down because I've spent a considerable amount of time thinking about this problem myself. I'm working on it though, and I think I'm not completely off the mark.

[todreaminblue]

the meanderings of feelisophy is to see meaning in personal feeling any particular way that has substance enough to make you feel convicted to a theory an ideal or belief

 

 

if life were meaningless wouldnt you cease to feel the answer to your question needed a definitive response, because if life had no meaning or were as you put meaninglessness....then really what right do we have to live with meaning or even quest for meaning....or serve any purpose but to meander in a dream like state until you go back to dust......

 

 

where is a higher thought required or warranted when everything ceases to mean anything..for if life were meaningless all life is meaning less.....less being not important to think about when you could have more than less........i prefer to think life has a rich and diverse substance of possibility and that every design in all life is intricately suited to a higher power to debunk or theroize and beyond comprehension to the nth degree for a mortals bias opionin garnered between pages of a book that are literally as you said...without purpose...no that fact doesnt make me suicidal...i just would prefer to read the bible and hope and pray for the best for all i love including me....than meander lost in transit on the road to nowhere soon or descend into a pool of pointlessness... or could i possibly desire to hopethereof instead,

 

that hope breathes sanity and instils a certain peace that it matters not what i know but how i live what i do know, for in certainty i can guarantee, I do have this life to live...but most imprtantly I have to live this life reagrdless of meaning or if it were to more of meaning or meaningless to god i entrust my purpose because he gave me that purpose, when i was lacking god gave more, not less, may it be that god also find more in me at the end of this life i have to give and not find in me less of what my life could have amounted to

Edited June 12, 2014 by todreaminblue

[littleplanet]

the meanderings of feelisophy is to see meaning in personal feeling any particular way that has substance enough to make you feel convicted to a theory an ideal or belief

 

 

if life were meaningless wouldnt you cease to feel the answer to your question needed a definitive response, because if life had no meaning or were as you put meaninglessness....then really what right do we have to live with meaning or even quest for meaning....or serve any purpose but to meander in a dream like state until you go back to dust......

 

 

where is a higher thought required or warranted when everything ceases to mean anything..for if life were meaningless all life is meaning less.....less being not important to think about when you could have more than less........i prefer to think life has a rich and diverse substance of possibility and that every design in all life is intricately suited to a higher power to debunk or theroize and beyond comprehension to the nth degree for a mortals bias opionin garnered between pages of a book that are literally as you said...without purpose...no that fact doesnt make me suicidal...i just would prefer to read the bible and hope and pray for the best for all i love including me....than meander lost in transit on the road to nowhere soon or descend into a pool of pointlessness... or could i possibly desire to hopethereof instead,

 

that hope breathes sanity and instils a certain peace that it matters not what i know but how i live what i do know, for in certainty i can guarantee, I do have this life to live...but most imprtantly I have to live this life reagrdless of meaning or if it were to more of meaning or meaningless to god i entrust my purpose because he gave me that purpose, when i was lacking god gave more, not less, may it be that god also find more in me at the end of this life i have to give and not find in me less of what my life could have amounted to

 

 

oh Bravo, Deb

 

(standing ovation) :bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny:

 

(even bunnies would agree - and they're a tough audience!)

 

Just like the parable of the talents (always my favorite).........there is always freedom to talk oneself in or out of anything.

But it is that endless dance between internal and external......and the balanced motion between, that ever embraces any true state of grace.

 

It is in the times of life when one forgets to think......and remembers to feel......that meaning flourishes.

 

yeah.......and then the two get back together again - soon enough.

[littleplanet]

Ebman,

 

At the end of the day we are all just walking each other home.

This would make a great line in a good song.

 

One of those kinds of lines that just says simply what entire novels stumble around trying to do.

 

Tip of the hat