Trading spouses

[LaylaSings]

We have been trying to go low contact and end our affair since the end of January but made a big step back mid march.. We have been trying hard again to move on and focus on our work, marriages and kids, but he's become increasingly sad and I'm not the only one who sees it. My husband and his wife have pointed out his off behaviour several times the last few weeks.

 

He says he's fine. It's obvious he's not and I feel horrible for him. It's hard to focus on anything else.

 

It's very hard not to reach out and try and cheer him up, but I haven't. It's killing me not to.

[Forever Learning]

Continue on the path to No Contact, in the long run it is the best solution to mitigate pain and suffering for all parties. Low contact doesn't work as well as No Contact. Low contact is a slippery slope back into an affair, in my view.

 

Keep busy and distracted, and focus, as you said, on the kids and work, and figuring out what you would like for the future of your own marriage, whatever that may be. I can promise you this - your kids need you 100%, focus on them, they matter, he's a grown man, they are still finding their way in this world. They need you (and you need them too ) All the very best to you!

[LaylaSings]

Continue on the path to No Contact, in the long run it is the best solution to mitigate pain and suffering for all parties. Low contact doesn't work as well as No Contact. Low contact is a slippery slope back into an affair, in my view.

 

Keep busy and distracted, and focus, as you said, on the kids and work, and figuring out what you would like for the future of your own marriage, whatever that may be. I can promise you this - your kids need you 100%, focus on them, they matter, he's a grown man, they are still finding their way in this world. They need you (and you need them too ) All the very best to you!

 

No contact would be horrible to deal with but maybe in the end it would have been easier to move on. I do recognize that. In our situation though, we own a business as partners.. I take care of their children daily and our lives are very intertwined. Without confessing, which we are not going to do no contact isn't even possible, but as it stands we've only seen each other twice in two weeks! That's barely anything if you consider we share a business and a yard.

[Forever Learning]

No contact would be horrible to deal with but maybe in the end it would have been easier to move on. I do recognize that. In our situation though, we own a business as partners.. I take care of their children daily and our lives are very intertwined. Without confessing, which we are not going to do no contact isn't even possible, but as it stands we've only seen each other twice in two weeks! That's barely anything if you consider we share a business and a yard.

 

Wow, that IS an extremely tough situation! It sounds like Low Contact is really the best you can do here. I wish you both the best.

[gettingstronger]

he knows it is all fake much like i have made him realise that his life at home is.

 

 

Manipulation- the question is who is manipulating who?

[DKT3]

We have been trying to go low contact and end our affair since the end of January but made a big step back mid march.. We have been trying hard again to move on and focus on our work, marriages and kids, but he's become increasingly sad and I'm not the only one who sees it. My husband and his wife have pointed out his off behaviour several times the last few weeks.

 

He says he's fine. It's obvious he's not and I feel horrible for him. It's hard to focus on anything else.

 

It's very hard not to reach out and try and cheer him up, but I haven't. It's killing me not to.

Oh boy, where to start?

 

Your not the keeper of his mental state, your focus should be on your husband and his well being.

 

I'm guessing it was you that wanted to slow down right? He is manipulating you. This will end badly. You are dead set against confessing yet its the only thing that will keep you two from being caught. This "low contact" will only last for so long before your back in bed with him.

 

In the early 90's there was a very good bank robber working the west coast. Robbed like 19 banks in 5 years. Tried to quit, missed the thrill of it all. Decided he would get his fix by knocking off a mini mart and got caught. Upon getting caught they investigated and found proof of bigger crimes. Now he is doing life. This is how I see this ending for you. Think about the pain and dissapointment on the faces of your BS's what about the kids? All the relationships that this will ruin when you get caught. Note I said when and not if. You will get caught. Even if you totally end it now, there is still a good chance it will come to light.

 

Guilt is a odd bird, it has a way of making us do things sometimes without thinking about it.

 

Good luck. Remember

[DKT3]

Layla, let me tell you how I see this ending. His wife will figure it out, I'm guessing for as careful as you two think you've been she is already tuned in. Maybe she has no clue its with you, but I bet she has a clue.

 

She will then tell your husband who by the stats will throw you out. Faced with the choose of you and his wife the OM will pick her and his kids. This leaves you without anyone.

 

Women are 7 times more likely to take back a cheating husband. The fact that the OM is his good friend almost ensures the end of your marriage when his wife tells him.

 

Him with his wife, your husband with the first smoking hot thing that gets his attention and you left pining for two men that wants nothing to do with you.

 

Since you won't confess the only shot you have is focus on what's real and let go of the fantasy.

[Patna]

His wife will figure it out, I'm guessing for as careful as you two think you've been she is already tuned in. Maybe she has no clue its with you, but I bet she has a clue.

 

Layla, DKT3 is right. Both of you are threading on thin line the way you are behaving. When I broke up with my exMM, he was affected and it shows all over his face. His wife suspected something was not right with him and started digging his emails and phone. That's how Dday happened for us. His wife said she could sense something was not right, and you can trust a woman's intuition on that. Especially the 4 of you will meet together, no matter how well both of you hide, some things will still show. After I confessed to my H, he also told me he knew something major happened to me, just no clue about what. He also said every time we go out together, he could sense I behave differently, more cold towards exMM than I normally would to anyone else. Just that he couldn't figure out what's wrong so he left it at that. So do be careful about what both of you are showing, consciously or subconsciously...

[LaylaSings]

I just have a hard time believing he's trying to manipulate me because he would have to be counting on my husband and his wife relaying the info to me. Which I know people would assume he's doing just that.. But I just have a hard time believing he would go that far.

When I see him he acts like he's fine.. He smiles and talks to me normally. Although we have both been avoiding situations where we need to be around one another the last couple weeks, just keeping busy with separate things.

But my husband says he's acting distant. He's tired a lot he says and doesn't respond to messages or call back as quickly as he used to. He's honestly busy with work, they work together.. But he's also busy with a side project and my husband assumes it's that.

 

His wife on the other hand says he's snapping at her out of the blue. He's sleeping a lot. He's being very pessimistic about any thing she's tried to discuss with him especially future plans and he's sleeping a lot and becoming a hermit. And has little to no interest in sex right now.. Very , VERY unlike him.

I'm not asking for any of this info by the way, I never do.

 

He's also being overly critical about her parenting style which I've brought up before is something we both bonded over immensely, was how we choose to parent and both his wife and my husband clash with us there but he's never really called her out on it and he is lately.

 

She has brought up his mood swings several times just this week.

 

When I see him he's smiling big and seems genuinely happy to see me and seems unaffected by what's going on.. If they were not telling me these things I would have no idea anything had changed other than he seems a little life distant.

[DKT3]

I just have a hard time believing he's trying to manipulate me because he would have to be counting on my husband and his wife relaying the info to me. Which I know people would assume he's doing just that.. But I just have a hard time believing he would go that far.

When I see him he acts like he's fine.. He smiles and talks to me normally. Although we have both been avoiding situations where we need to be around one another the last couple weeks, just keeping busy with separate things.

But my husband says he's acting distant. He's tired a lot he says and doesn't respond to messages or call back as quickly as he used to. He's honestly busy with work, they work together.. But he's also busy with a side project and my husband assumes it's that.

 

His wife on the other hand says he's snapping at her out of the blue. He's sleeping a lot. He's being very pessimistic about any thing she's tried to discuss with him especially future plans and he's sleeping a lot and becoming a hermit. And has little to no interest in sex right now.. Very , VERY unlike him.

I'm not asking for any of this info by the way, I never do.

 

He's also being overly critical about her parenting style which I've brought up before is something we both bonded over immensely, was how we choose to parent and both his wife and my husband clash with us there but he's never really called her out on it and he is lately.

 

She has brought up his mood swings several times just this week.

 

When I see him he's smiling big and seems genuinely happy to see me and seems unaffected by what's going on.. If they were not telling me these things I would have no idea anything had changed other than he seems a little life distant.

So you have this awesome connection but it takes other to tell you he is off?

 

Another thing, he knows the four of you are close so why wouldn't they mention to you that he seems down. I think your just looking for an excuse to get started back up.

 

Its not your problem, if you keep pushing your luck you will be burned. You stand to lose more then anyone in this situation you just can't see it. Look out for yourself kids firsts.

[Bittersweetie]

Layla, if you TRULY want to end this, and move on, then realize this:

 

He is not your problem.

 

I can understand that due to the situation you can not have absolute no contact, but...

 

who cares if he's snapping at his wife?

 

who cares if he's critical of his wife's parenting style?

 

That is not your problem! If the wife starts telling you these things, change the subject! It can be done politely.

 

You cannot control him, but you can control you.

[LaylaSings]

So you have this awesome connection but it takes other to tell you he is off?.

 

Not at all. I can see it with my own eyes and I can feel it when we are in the same room.. However I was expecting us to both be a little off I just didn't expect how things are playing out right now. He's very good at hiding his feelings just like I am.

[LaylaSings]

So you have this awesome connection but it takes other to tell you he is off?

 

Another thing, he knows the four of you are close so why wouldn't they mention to you that he seems down. I think your just looking for an excuse to get started back up.

 

Its not your problem, if you keep pushing your luck you will be burned. You stand to lose more then anyone in this situation you just can't see it. Look out for yourself kids firsts.

 

I am not looking for a reason to restart the affair. If I wanted to restart anything Id just have to call and ask him to meet me, he would in a heart beat and we both know that.

 

Yes the four of us are very close and mentioning he's down wouldn't be weird coming from them, it goes deeper than that though and my husband never talks about personal things like that about him to me because he's never felt the need and his wife is my friend we do discuss issues with our spouses but this is just different.

We generally are very positive when talking about each other.. No matter which of us is talking about who. It's not easy to explain I suppose.

I just know him. And some of the things his wife and my husband have said to me about him lately I don't believe he would be happy about. He likes to present himself in a very optimistic light. And he's struggling to do that lately. So much so that they have noticed.

It used to be me that picked up on his moods and it would go over their heads.

Around me he seems to try harder to do it and that's what I meant by he can sort of hide how he's feeling when around me but they are relaying info.

 

I know I'm over thinking everything and probably not making much sense. I'm coming here to vent instead of reaching out to him that's all.

[LaylaSings]

Layla, if you TRULY want to end this, and move on, then realize this:

 

He is not your problem.

 

I can understand that due to the situation you can not have absolute no contact, but...

 

who cares if he's snapping at his wife?

 

who cares if he's critical of his wife's parenting style?

 

That is not your problem! If the wife starts telling you these things, change the subject! It can be done politely.

 

You cannot control him, but you can control you.

 

Yes, logically I know all that. My heart just needs to get in line with my brain that's all.

 

And who cares? I care.

 

We run our homes and business like a big family. I care too much.

[LaylaSings]

I truly do want to end the affair but not the friendship.

[Spark1111]

Well good luck with that one.

 

Layla, an affair can be a wonderful diversion from depression....for awhile.

 

It spikes endorphins and feel good chemicals in the brain, the ones we associate with cocaine use and falling in love. Imagine that?

 

That's why affairs can be so addictive. But, the higher you spike in feeling good, the harder you fall when it ends.

 

There is also a category of AP in lieu of therapy.

 

You didn't cause it, you cannot control it, and of course, you cannot fix it for him.

 

Typical OW, you thought your love could save him, or at least, make him feel better about himself. It cannot. Not LONG-term.

 

Only he can do the hard work of fixing his own mental state through drugs, maybe, and therapy.

 

Stay the course. You be responsible for you. He, as an adult, has to be responsible for him.

[jellybean89]

I just know him. And some of the things his wife and my husband have said to me about him lately I don't believe he would be happy about. He likes to present himself in a very optimistic light. And he's struggling to do that lately. So much so that they have noticed.

 

It used to be me that picked up on his moods and it would go over their heads.

Around me he seems to try harder to do it and that's what I meant by he can sort of hide how he's feeling when around me but they are relaying info.

 

I know I'm over thinking everything and probably not making much sense. I'm coming here to vent instead of reaching out to him that's all.

 

You do realize his wife knows him probably quite a lot better than you do right? Thyn dated, got engaged, got married, planned a future...

 

I am sure his wife has gotten to know his moods, etc way more than you realize, she has lived with him for years. I don't say this to be mean, but to help you understand that she knows him very well.

[LaylaSings]

You do realize his wife knows him probably quite a lot better than you do right? Thyn dated, got engaged, got married, planned a future...

 

I am sure his wife has gotten to know his moods, etc way more than you realize, she has lived with him for years. I don't say this to be mean, but to help you understand that she knows him very well.

 

I do know that she knows him on an entirely different level than I do, however the things she knows are sometimes vastly different from how he really felt or feels now. Just like me there are large chunks of our past that we never told anyone but each other, me and him, including not telling our spouses.

 

She knows him very differently than I do but we both are privy to very different sides.

 

I do not think badly of his wife, I love her to death, that's what makes this all so crazy.

 

If you were mostly responding to where I said his moods and feelings often went over her head.. They did, that's not a fault against her so much as hr deliberately hid a lot of his feelings from her, but it also just has to do a lot with personalities and her knowing him it not.. They are very different people and where I would pick up on things, because I could relate, she often couldn't.

 

I know him very well. That's not me trying to belittle her.

Edited April 8, 2014 by LaylaSings

[DKT3]

I do know that she knows him on an entirely different level than I do, however the things she knows are sometimes vastly different from how he really felt or feels now. Just like me there are large chunks of our past that we never told anyone but each other, me and him, including not telling our spouses.

 

She knows him very differently than I do but we both are privy to very different sides.

 

I do not think badly of his wife, I love her to death, that's what makes this all so crazy.

 

If you were mostly responding to where I said his moods and feelings often went over her head.. They did, that's not a fault against her so much as hr deliberately hid a lot of his feelings from her, but it also just has to do a lot with personalities and her knowing him it not.. They are very different people and where I would pick up on things, because I could relate, she often couldn't.

 

I know him very well. That's not me trying to belittle her.

you know only what he allows you to know. I honestly think your reaching in suggesting that you have a deeper connection. Its the fog talking.

 

Affair are fantasy where the AP's put their best foot forward. This is the same story with different names. He understands me, she gets me, we connect on a higher plain. UNTIL you get caught that its a race to see who can push the other in front of the speeding bus first.

 

Honestly, how do you see this playing out? You staying friends and maintaining contact with your lover is as disrespectful as the affair itself. Not to mention a sure way to get caught. One drunken night, one miss placed glance. One slip in affection were you reach out for his hand in eye sight of one of the BS's.

 

Restarting the affair? Maybe not what your allowing yourself to admitt, yet everyone that has dealt with infidelity can tell you, your actions are louder then your words.

[Hope Shimmers]

you know only what he allows you to know.

 

True for both the OP and WS, no?

[Hope Shimmers]

Well good luck with that one.

 

Layla, an affair can be a wonderful diversion from depression....for awhile.

 

It spikes endorphins and feel good chemicals in the brain, the ones we associate with cocaine use and falling in love. Imagine that?

 

What about affairs that last years? Is that different from a good marriage in terms of what you said above (chemically)? Is it different from an AP who goes back to his W after an A?

 

Really just curious on the data about that and how it relates to affairs of different lengths, types, etc.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I do know that she knows him on an entirely different level than I do, however the things she knows are sometimes vastly different from how he really felt or feels now. Just like me there are large chunks of our past that we never told anyone but each other, me and him, including not telling our spouses.

 

She knows him very differently than I do but we both are privy to very different sides.

 

I do not think badly of his wife, I love her to death, that's what makes this all so crazy.

 

If you were mostly responding to where I said his moods and feelings often went over her head.. They did, that's not a fault against her so much as hr deliberately hid a lot of his feelings from her, but it also just has to do a lot with personalities and her knowing him it not.. They are very different people and where I would pick up on things, because I could relate, she often couldn't.

 

I know him very well. That's not me trying to belittle her.

 

 

Isn't it emotionally/mentally exhausting keeping all the characters, their motives, the conjectures, who knows what, where is so and so, what does that mean, past histories, being the go-to person to disclose feelings/speculation/talking behind the back of the other 3?

 

Do you ever take a break from all of this? Do you enjoy being the linchpin of the four of you? Wouldn't it be great....to just be concerned/spend emotional energy for yourself and yours? How do you not get depleted?

[DKT3]

It is no different from any other relationship in regard to falling in love. Call it fog, call it drug induced, but lots of affairs are actually falling in love and of course that is addictive. and very very hard to give up

 

Quote

 

Affair are fantasy where the AP's put their best foot forward. This is the same story with different names. He understands me, she gets me, we connect on a higher plain. UNTIL you get caught that its a race to see who can push the other in front of the speeding bus first. quote

 

funny that, I always saw a real side of my MM, I guess I would after six years. I often wish he would put on a front and just let us have a 'happy day' without talking about US and the future, but no getting away from the reality of being in love with someone is not all frills and dinners and hot sex, it can be very emotionally draining and has ups and downs like any long term relationship

 

I have no doubt that people fall in love. That doesn't prevent it from being fantasy. The draining stuff is self centered and selfish "what about me" "why can't I be happy with someone elses spouse" its rarely abou the pain and dysfunction this will cause those in the path of the wreckage.

[Journee]

These

I have no doubt that people fall in love. That doesn't prevent it from being fantasy. Thcheated over draining egostuff is self centered and selfish "what aboIt ut me" "why can't I be happy with someone elses spouse" its rarely abou the pain and dysfunction this will cause those in the path of the wreckage.

 

 

 

Sometimes you come to find out that the marriage was the fantasy. Sometimes you come to find out you never really did know your spouse. It was all just a dream.

 

I fantasized for years about my M getting better and standing the test of time despite tremendous obstacles. My H cheated over and over. While it was I that lived in a fantasy world. It was all an illusion.

 

 

What's more real? The facade of an M without truth, intimacy, direction or commitment from one or both spouses... or the A's where some of the same components are present?

[LaylaSings]

you know only what he allows you to know. I honestly think your reaching in suggesting that you have a deeper connection. Its the fog talking.

 

Affair are fantasy where the AP's put their best foot forward. This is the same story with different names. He understands me, she gets me, we connect on a higher plain. UNTIL you get caught that its a race to see who can push the other in front of the speeding bus first.

 

Honestly, how do you see this playing out? You staying friends and maintaining contact with your lover is as disrespectful as the affair itself. Not to mention a sure way to get caught. One drunken night, one miss placed glance. One slip in affection were you reach out for his hand in eye sight of one of the BS's.

 

Restarting the affair? Maybe not what your allowing yourself to admitt, yet everyone that has dealt with infidelity can tell you, your actions are louder then your words.

 

I think you are wrong about my situation. You are looking at it as if it's an affair where we only present our best sides and know little of one another's true natures?

 

Our front doors are less than five feet apart. We share a business and basically a home, our yards connect, I care for their children full time. I have known him for years in this close environment, long before the affair ever began. We lost three people close to us do to tragedy that bonded us but we also share a very parallel past and I know him very well. I'm not in a fog.

 

If you read my first posts you'll see that I admit and am well aware that I was magnifying my husbands faults to myself in the beginning but that doesn't discount my real connection to this other man.

 

However it is depleting. It is exhausting and it is wrong.

 

I'm not reaching for anything.

You do not sound like you have read any of my threads and are more giving me general advice "with just the names changed" based on how you perceive 'most' affairs.

 

I'm not saying me and him are soul mates. I love he. Very much but I can clearly see his faults and he can see mine. I do not have to reach for a connection, it is electric anything we are together. What I do want is to end it with as little hurt as possible.