M30USA Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 ...do you think believe in a historical, physical resurrection of Jesus Christ and not merely that it's an allegory or "true in concept"? I've heard many people say it doesn't matter if the resurrection was literal in a physical sense; that it's true meaning is it gives hope to people where there is no hope, etc. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I believe in His resurrection just as it is written. Surely His remains would be somewhere had He not risen from the dead. The Apostles would have seen to that. So no. There is no doubt in my mind. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 I believe in His resurrection just as it is written. Surely His remains would be somewhere had He not risen from the dead. The Apostles would have seen to that. So no. There is no doubt in my mind. What really freaks me out is, if he resurrected physically, and if he ascended physically, then does this mean he is currently somewhere in the physical universe? Notice the text doesn't say he just disappeared or magically vanished. He ascended. Ascended WHERE? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 What really freaks me out is, if he resurrected physically, and if he ascended physically, then does this mean he is currently somewhere in the physical universe? Notice the text doesn't say he just disappeared or magically vanished. He ascended. Ascended WHERE? Into Heaven but remember what the angel told the Apostles of His second coming? Maybe in Heaven he is the one in the same earthly form for recognition among the souls there. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 Into Heaven but remember what the angel told the Apostles of His second coming? Maybe in Heaven he is the one in the same earthly form for recognition among the souls there. Good point. Jesus is the physucal manifestation of an invisible God. You said "into heaven", but which heaven? Did you know there are 2-3 different heavens in the Bible? One of them is the physical area around earth--what we would call the sky or space. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 The Resurrection is what set Jesus apart from other "gods", making Him the one true God along with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Good point. Jesus is the physucal manifestation of an invisible God. You said "into heaven", but which heaven? Did you know there are 2-3 different heavens in the Bible? One of them is the physical area around earth--what we would call the sky or space. The third heaven with the Father. He went there to "prepare a place" http://biblehub.com/john/14-2.htm 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 The Resurrection is what set Jesus apart from other "gods", making Him the one true God along with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. I've often wondered about that. What EXACTLY makes Jesus the true God? He wasn't the only person to rise from the dead. Lazarus did. Elijah will when he returns. And we as believers will also. I think what his resurrection means (and maybe this is what you meant) is that he was victorious over death. In other words, it was the visible evidence that he won. As far as what makes Jesus God, I have thought about this and I think it's just his his IDENTITY. He was God because he was God. He spoke truth. He lived truth. He lived sinless life. He perfectly displayed all the attributes of Jehovah. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) ...do you think believe in a historical, physical resurrection of Jesus Christ and not merely that it's an allegory or "true in concept"? I don't know. I do know though that I believe Jesus truly died on the cross, was buried, rose from the dead and showed himself to his followers, and that he is coming again someday. One thing that is interesting that Jesus said is a question that seems to be very relevant and continues to grow relevant: "However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?” (in Luke 18:8 NIV) Jesus also said, "At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other," (Matthew 24:10 NIV) Because of this, it is not a surprise at all to me that some people don't believe that Jesus truly died and rose from the dead, and that some people turn from the faith and/or don't love others. I think those who truly believe will become rarer and rarer as time goes on. I've heard many people say it doesn't matter if the resurrection was literal in a physical sense; that it's true meaning is it gives hope to people where there is no hope, etc.100% disagreed. The resurrection is vital because that's how Jesus fulfilled the prophecies concerning him accounted in Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22. Also, that's how Jesus fulfilled the harsh requirement of the Law of Moses for the animal sacrifice. I personally can't stand it that the Law God gave to the children of Israel through Moses included animal sacrifices. In Jesus' time, animals were still being sacrificed in the Temple at Jerusalem. Even after Jesus Christ died and rose again, animals were sacrificed in the Temple until the Romans destroyed the Temple around 70 AD. While it was very wrong for the Romans to destroy the temple and conquer the Jewish people (and other groups of people too), one reason why I think God allowed it was because Jesus Christ already fulfilled the requirement for innocent animal offerings, so animals should not be sacrificed anymore or ever again. Because many of the Jewish people did not accept that Jesus Christ is the Messiah (Anointed One), they did not realize that Jesus' death and resurrection fulfills prophecy and the harsh animal death requirement in the Law of Moses. However, the Jewish people who accepted Jesus Christ in his time (including his apostles) and Jewish people today who accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah, understand that Jesus Christ's death and resurrection fulfills prophecies in the Tanakh and completes the demand for blood sacrifice. Because of Jesus Christ fulfilling prophecy and eliminating the need for animal sacrifices, his death and resurrection are vital. Personally, I am so thankful that I do not live pre-Jesus Christ, because animal sacrifices make me so sad. While it saddens me as well that Jesus Christ suffered torture and died on the cross for us, it makes me so glad that he rose again, and that he is the King of kings!!! What he did once for all has an eternal impact!!! Edited May 7, 2014 by BetheButterfly 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 Butterfly, I think of it in this way: sin must be so incredibly awful and destructive in God's eye that he forced us to see something DIE and blood come out because of it. It's almost like in our primitive minds, he wanted us to see: "sin equals death/blood". 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 What % of professing Christians do you think believe in a historical, physical resurrection of Jesus Christ and not merely that it's an allegory or "true in concept"? Duh. Like 17%. Can't believe you didn't know that, OP! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Duh. Like 17%. Can't believe you didn't know that, OP! lol If the apostles of Christ are representative ratios of various Christian downfalls, I suppose 1 in 12 (1 a false convert; 1 doubting a physical resurrection)... I present my evidence 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) lol If the apostles of Christ are representative ratios of various Christian downfalls, I suppose 1 in 12 (1 a false convert; 1 doubting a physical resurrection)... I present my evidence It always reassures me when the very disciples had problems understanding what the heck was going on! M30, I agree with your confusion about the whole mechanics of the resurrection, and where exactly the physical body might be. Not only the resurrected Jesus, but it's a trip to think about where all of these spiritual beings are. Personally, I think of God and heaven and angels as being so close to us. Like, right around us, or in front of our very noses. But they're in another dimension that we can't register with our bodily senses. Like, if God wanted to, he could just open this invisible curtain, and we see this whole spiritual realm (the good and bad) that surrounds us all the time. Edited May 8, 2014 by pie2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 Duh. Like 17%. Can't believe you didn't know that, OP! You reminded me of the book "Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" where they invented the super computer named Deep Thought and asked it what was the answer to "life, the universe, and everything". After thousands of years of computing and thousands of generations, the computer finally gave the answer: 42! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 You reminded me of the book "Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" where they invented the super computer named Deep Thought and asked it what was the answer to "life, the universe, and everything". After thousands of years of computing and thousands of generations, the computer finally gave the answer: 42! As good an answer as any. Kinda seems what our answers to that question must sound like to God. Compared to the real answer to "life, the universe, and everything", anything us humans might come up with probably just pales in comparison, misses the mark, and might be completely nonsensical (much like 42). Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) It always reassures me when the very disciples had problems understanding what the heck was going on! M30, I agree with your confusion about the whole mechanics of the resurrection, and where exactly the physical body might be. Not only the resurrected Jesus, but it's a trip to think about where all of these spiritual beings are. Personally, I think of God and heaven and angels as being so close to us. Like, right around us, or in front of our very noses. But they're in another dimension that we can't register with our bodily senses. Like, if God wanted to, he could just open this invisible curtain, and we see this whole spiritual realm (the good and bad) that surrounds us all the time. Based on His Resurrection appearances He can manifest physically, but He can also enter directly into the spiritual realm. When He appeared to the disciples He would appear in their midst, even though the disciples were behind locked doors due to fear of the authorities. On the road to Emmaus, he disappeared from their sight. Jesus can also cloak Himself, an ability He displayed even before His resurrection. When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to them. And their eyes were opened, and they recognized him. And he vanished from their sight. They said to each other, “Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the Scriptures?” For example, when the Jews wanted to stone Him the bible states He would hide himself. Perceiving then that they were about to come and take him by force to make him king, Jesus withdrew again to the mountain by himself. So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. And they rose up and drove him out of the town and brought him to the brow of the hill on which their town was built, so that they could throw him down the cliff. But passing through their midst, he went away. When they came to arrest Him, the gospel of John states Jesus could knock down all the soldiers with a word. Then Jesus, knowing all that would happen to him, came forward and said to them, “Whom do you seek?” They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus said to them, “I am he.”Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them. When Jesus said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground. So, yes Jesus rose and has a physical body, but He is not limited to the physical realm like we are. Many times in the gospels Jesus demonstrated His ability to speak with authority in such a way that He could directly interact with and control the spiritual and physical realm. Demons immediately recognized Him. He would command his enemies and they would obey until He permitted them to take Him. The Pharisees heard the crowd muttering these things about him, and the chief priests and Pharisees sent officers to arrest him. The officers then came to the chief priests and Pharisees, who said to them, “Why did you not bring him?” The officers answered, “No one ever spoke like this man!” When Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, for he was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes. Edited May 8, 2014 by TheFinalWord 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 As good an answer as any. Kinda seems what our answers to that question must sound like to God. Compared to the real answer to "life, the universe, and everything", anything us humans might come up with probably just pales in comparison, misses the mark, and might be completely nonsensical (much like 42). Most people don't realize the Bible doesn't even explain what the meaning of life is! It explains who God is and who man is, as well as what we need to know to fulfill what God requires of us...but it never says what the purpose of it all is. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 So, yes Jesus rose and has a physical body, but He is not limited to the physical realm like we are. He's the Living Water. It's like he can take many forms, while maintaining his basic divine traits, the way water can change, and yet keep the same fundamental properties (I guess). Anyway, Jesus, angels and demons can all manifest physical bodies on earth, yeah? And when we die and are in heaven, we'll have physical bodies, but they'll be like new in the spiritual realm, and with them we'll have new traits probably? Like, the ability to travel through dimensions (time, space...) in new ways? Most people don't realize the Bible doesn't even explain what the meaning of life is! It explains who God is and who man is, as well as what we need to know to fulfill what God requires of us...but it never says what the purpose of it all is. So true. No one knows the answers to such questions. But getting to know God, and having a personal understanding of who we are in relation to God's love, does help clarify a few things about what we're doing here (at least in the meantime, till we get some better answers ). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Butterfly, I think of it in this way: sin must be so incredibly awful and destructive in God's eye that he forced us to see something DIE and blood come out because of it. It's almost like in our primitive minds, he wanted us to see: "sin equals death/blood". Thanks for explaining M30USA. Yeah, I can see that. While I personally wish God had not given us free will, I am so glad that we don't have to offer animal sacrifices like the children of Israel did. I'm so grateful that Jesus took care of that by suffering and dying for us once for all, and that he rose again and is coming back!!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Thanks for explaining M30USA. Yeah, I can see that. While I personally wish God had not given us free will, I am so glad that we don't have to offer animal sacrifices like the children of Israel did. I'm so grateful that Jesus took care of that by suffering and dying for us once for all, and that he rose again and is coming back!!! I'm so glad the debt's been paid as well! But why do you wish God had not given us free will? Link to post Share on other sites
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