WW's this is some of the damage you have caused. A rant.

[road]

Even though my situation is different than yours I have the same symptoms. I can't get healthy again. I allowed myself to get so down I acquired MRSA in my spine, It has destroyed my immune system. There isn't anything I really like anymore, I did not divorce my wife, She thinks I am keeping her here to observe how I destroy the men she was with during our marriage, she says every time I do something to a past lover it tears her heart out. I said its a good thing its not your liver.

 

 

 

Has she told you why it tears her heart out?

 

 

What have you done to get back at them?

[snappytomcat]

what a great post,not great what happened to you,im sorry what your ww did to you,but I felt the same way,im a bw and have decided to reconcile,but it was such a hard decision,how can I stay with someone who murdered my soul?i have no idea,only time will tell,but so far so good,but we truly love each other

[revelations]

Good rant - I hope you felt better after writing it.

 

I understand that your view of women has been destroyed and vowing never to commit again is smart for any BH. I mean, why put yourself out there when you don't have to? You can get sex and companionship from any woman - you don't have to even like her. That said, I do wonder why your self-esteem seems to still be so crushed when you DIDN'T just stay around and be unhappily married. You had the good sense to recognize that you would never be able to accept what she did and the courage to do something about it and divorce her. Personal healing will take more time and staying out of any relationships with women is a smart thing to do. Just do what you believe is best for you and you'll end up fine.

 

 

Drifter777,

Actually part of what I was trying to show in the rant was that my self-esteem was crushed, however not gone. How the situation had confused me and you may say put be into a bit of a fog of my own. Then I had to take steps to end that confusion and lift the fog. Once my head became clear I had to rebuild myself, after all who else would? The xWW? Ha! Fat chance of that.

 

Rebuilding myself would be of little use if I did not protect what I was building. After all I had been that nice guy and this is ringing the dinner bell for the sharks. Maybe I should have stated it better in the end of my post, however my self-esteem is pretty high. I have enough respect for myself to not ignore those red flags I see. Like I had said I was trying to show how crushed a BH can be, however that they can also rebuild. I was also trying to show that to be happy does not require a man to have a woman at his side.

 

I agree with you about the getting laid part. I have actually had women take me out on dates and boy is that a twist. However I have been enjoying life and things keep improving for me. Dating is fun to me and it is amusing when I run into women such as the one I posted about later after the OP. The point is that it is how my perspective has changed. I no longer see a relationship as something I need to be happy. I now see women as something that can really screw up my happiness if I allow it. After all if I am responsible for my own happiness than am I not responsible for protecting it? So yes my self-esteem is a lot better and always improving. When I am ready to settle down I will buy a house near a fishing hole. Adopt a dog for companionship and then enjoy life even more. Hmm, maybe I should also include a near by nudie bar in that plan too..

[txgrl]

How old are you, if you don't mind my asking ? How long were you married ? Kids?

 

Unless you're 80 , I doubt that your fishing+dog+ bar plan will work out the way you envision it at this point . I'm not trying to disrespect it anything, the way you put it is hilarious .

[revelations]

txgrl,

 

I am in my early 40's and I was married for 15yrs one kid from a previous woman. I actually have found a few places were I can afford to buy a house outright and live on already. Yes they do have fishing holes nearby, I would just have to drive a bit for a nudie bar. However I don't think that I will be getting a place like this anytime soon. I still need to save more money to live on and I need to upgrade another skill I have to insure an income for a home business. So really it is not just a pipe dream, I am actually working towards it. However I am glad you see the humor in it, after all that is what I was going for also. Their is another line that I use a lot that I got from Tom Lykis which is "If it fly's, floats or f*cks, your better off renting it".

 

Now I understand that some women get offended by my viewpoint. However think about it just a little bit. Just put yourself into a man's shoes for a minute. Would you sign a contract with me that has certain things you have to do and maintain, however no matter who breaks the contract you will have to pay the price? That price being half of your income or more now, half of your retirement and assets. Aside from the emotional damage that is cause, men also suffer from financial ruin. If something happens were he is laid off or injured he cannot simply stop paying for a time. He will be thrown in jail over not being able to make the payments. A woman can marry a man, cheat on him, divorce him, take his stuff including his paycheck. If he cannot keep paying her off then he goes to jail. Effectively he is now her slave.

 

Now do not get me wrong I am not defending a man that cheats or anything like that. My point is would you be willing to jump into this situation? I want to give all of you women a newsflash.. Men are not afraid of commitment, we are afraid what you will do to us when that commitment goes sour. I do my best to simply warn other men out there especially the BH's that there is a better way of life without taking a risk such as marriage or even living with. This has nothing to do with being bitter it is just cold black and white logic. If a marriage contract was written up for any other business no one in their right mind would sign it.

 

So hopefully more men out their will look at it as if they were signing a business contract. Hopefully more women will see that what they are requesting is not just unfair, but unreasonable as well. The more women that use these courts to just take, the less men there will be to take from. When women start to understand what is going on and speak up about it they can help make changes in the laws in a big way. Men have no voice in the courts and as a result there is only one thing we can do. That one thing is to use the word "NO". No to living with you, No to marriage and No to kids. Men may not be able to fight the current system, however we can starve it out.

[janedoe67]

I hurt my husband terribly.

 

I betrayed my husband terribly.

 

I damaged my marriage to my husband terribly.

 

I also betrayed and disappointed my children terribly.

 

I hurt our families with my choices.

 

The man I married and to whom I made vows was very very hurt, angered, and crushed by my actions as his wife.

 

There's no way I will ever understand, even having watched it, the extend of the pain of the man I directly betrayed.

[gettingstronger]

I feel like as long as you're honest and upfront about what you're all about it's all good. To me, a player is someone who feels like you do but doesn't admit it. Although you wouldn't be the guy for me, I would appreciate and respect your honesty. Enjoy!!

[Fluttershy]

There comes a point when everyone should take responsibility for their actions. The only person who changes you, is you if you allow it. That is whya WS can never blame their S for their descision to cheat.

[SoulStorm]

Most women in the world are faithful and trustworthy. Don't judge the whole gender by the actions of some. I can understand your difficulty in trusting a woman again, given how you have been hurt, but to try to protect yourself by not allowing yourself the chance to find love again is hurting you, not your exWW. You can screen for those women who lack character and loyalty and reduce your risk of being hurt again by screening carefully. To take yourself out of the game completely is to deny yourself the chance to have your faith restored by a woman who will be loyal and faithful to you.

That's his dilemma, he just doesn't have faith in women anymore, due to his experience with them. Maybe he just has a bad picker or maybe he couldn't see that those women were good at deception, but that has been his experience.

 

Good women are being just as hard to find as good men.

[drifter777]

They aren't hard to find if you know where to look for them. Maybe he doesn't have a good screening process. Maybe he continues a relationship when there are red flags that should have alerted him to a character issue in a woman....

Ok, lets say all of this is true for some BHs - or a any man. Wouldn't that be a reason to avoid serious relationships with women? Projecting that he is "missing" something because he refuses to be in a LTR isn't fair. Maybe he falls in love nearly every night but when the sweat dries he's done with her and starts looking for tomorrow's love. As crass as this sounds, who are we to judge? If he's not lying or leading a woman on, this could be a solid plan - and one many men & women are following right now.

[janedoe67]

Ok, lets say all of this is true for some BHs - or a any man. Wouldn't that be a reason to avoid serious relationships with women? Projecting that he is "missing" something because he refuses to be in a LTR isn't fair. Maybe he falls in love nearly every night but when the sweat dries he's done with her and starts looking for tomorrow's love. As crass as this sounds, who are we to judge? If he's not lying or leading a woman on, this could be a solid plan - and one many men & women are following right now.

 

Even the best screening process isn't foolproof. Regardless of what someone THINKS they know, the only people who truly know a person's life and state are God and that person.

[revelations]

I feel like as long as you're honest and upfront about what you're all about it's all good. To me, a player is someone who feels like you do but doesn't admit it. Although you wouldn't be the guy for me, I would appreciate and respect your honesty. Enjoy!!

 

I am honest when I date. Heck I even let them know if they want it to be exclusive then I am okay with that. I also let them know that we will never live together, marry or have kids and that it would be a long time before I will let them even come into my house. Now mind you, I am not trying to be mean or anything. It is just that I have gotten tired of the trouble that comes when a woman says "I love you".

[revelations]

Most women in the world are faithful and trustworthy. Don't judge the whole gender by the actions of some. I can understand your difficulty in trusting a woman again, given how you have been hurt, but to try to protect yourself by not allowing yourself the chance to find love again is hurting you, not your exWW. You can screen for those women who lack character and loyalty and reduce your risk of being hurt again by screening carefully. To take yourself out of the game completely is to deny yourself the chance to have your faith restored by a woman who will be loyal and faithful to you.

 

 

Every woman that I have ever been in a relationship with was faithful, TODAY. Tomorrow is a different story all together. That in a nutshell is the trouble, a few months from now or a few years from now is when they cheat. Usually by this time my guard is down, I am not looking for signs. However may I point out that I should not have to have my guard up if we are suppose to be in love. If I am suppose to keep track of her every move like a guard does or a PI then she should be paying me to be in a relationship with her. That is a lot of time and my time is worth money.

 

I do feel that it is nice of you to encourage me to give love a chance again, however my views are a little different. I don't need a woman at my side to enjoy life. As I am typing this I just got done playing an online video game for the last 4 hours with a cat slobbering all over me (oh how I suffer and hurt myself). Now this is just the start of what has so far been a great day for me. My reason for not wanting a relationship is not simply because I am afraid she will cheat. It also has to do with the misandry laws that make us men pay for the women being selfish. With the way things are now I am not just risking being hurt again, I am risking financial ruin and even jail time.

 

Let's face it women you are just not worth risking all of that to me. You maybe the best gal in the world, however I will not bet on it. Yes heartbreaks hurt, however so does giving your stuff away to her too. So understand that my choice is to either work, enjoy time with my friends and hobbies or try and fall in love again and risk not being able to have a retirement. Guess which one I am choosing.

 

Yes I still get laid and I am honest with those women. I even let them know that I'll be exclusive with them if they like. Usually the only thing I ask is to be honest and if they ask anything that they should follow the same agreement. However most that I have ran into are not even able to do this simple thing. Some of these women want to suck me into there drama of an ex or some other BS. Why the hell do I want that, I can turn on the TV for drama and it is a lot cheaper.

 

Let's face it there is just too high of a price to pay for going beyond anything but dating with women. Please do not believe me, many of you have been in the courts here. However look it up for yourself and ask yourself "Would I marry if this is what I face?". Let's face it I am done with that kind of BS. I am free from the plantation and I am not returning. Picking the right woman has nothing to do with it. Who she is today may not be the same person tomorrow. I am thankful that today my biggest worry is when I go to the store to pick porterhouse or NY steak.

[revelations]

That's his dilemma, he just doesn't have faith in women anymore, due to his experience with them. Maybe he just has a bad picker or maybe he couldn't see that those women were good at deception, but that has been his experience.

 

Good women are being just as hard to find as good men.

 

 

Actually I am not sure if it is a bad picker or not. Is what I have noticed is that after being in a relationship for a length of time they tend to feel they can get away with anything. I am actually a nice guy and I do treat women very well. When there is a problem I calmly explain what is bothering me or what I do not like or agree with. However most of the time, what I say is ignored. They seem to have no respect for me and I am often left feeling like they are anthropomorphizing me. This is also the reason they cheat. They show and have no respect for me because they have no respect for themselves.

 

Not sure if I am on to something with that. Truthfully I am not spending much time thinking about it. I do appreciate you pointing out to others that this is my own perspective and path. I find it amusing that when you say "I quit this relationship BS" women try and change your mind. Yes I know their are good women out there. Trouble is that none of them will treat me good. Then I read articles with titles like "Where have all the good men gone". Hell I can tell you were they have gone and may even write a book on it. The title of the book would be "The good men have gone away from you".

 

The WW's that have apologized to me, thank you. However it is your BH's ass you should be kissing and not mine. Truthfully your BH's ass should be being kissed so much he has a hard time sitting down. However I have been stung a few times in this area so I would not be an ideal man to try and save a relationship with.

[revelations]

No, that would be a reason to improve your screening process and be more alert to red flags that appear, in order to reduce the risk of being betrayed later on down the road. To avoid all relationships and deny oneself the opportunity to find love with a woman who can be trusted is only hurting himself and limiting his life in a way that is so unnecessary. To refuse to take any risk with a woman in fear of being eventually hurt is denying yourself the opportunity to find love and find that there are women who can be trusted. I don't believe denying oneself love is the answer. It only hurts himself, and doesn't help him to trust others. There are many women who can be trusted. Most of them can be trusted.

 

 

 

I don't think meaningless sex or casual relationships where you are unwilling to invest your emotions and risk your heart for the opportunity to find true love with a partner you can trust is healthy or a good answer for his dilema. It only makes it worse to harden his heart like that.

 

 

I would love you to point out how I am hurting or limiting myself? I actually have a lot of people in my life that I do trust, it is just that most of them are men. The women I do trust is for a reason, we are not lovers. So there is no actual gain they get by betraying me. However I would love to hear about how I am hurting and limiting myself. Seems to me that I am not being hurt anymore (well no new hurt) and my only limit is how many condoms I can buy. Seems to me that my freedom and options are wide open, ripe for the picking.

[revelations]

High price to pay, huh? Well, what price do you put on true love? On having someone to truly care about you and care for you? Someone to build a wonderful history with? Maybe have a family with? Most people feel the risk is worth the reward, but there are certainly ways you can reduce your risk of being cheated on, by engaging in a good screening process, and then doing whatever it takes to keep your relationship healthy.

 

I can tell you that I put a high value on true love. The trouble you seem to have understanding is that I put a higher value on myself. Why should I risk everything that I have earned again for "true love'? Hell I can buy a dog and get unconditional love from that dog. Funny thing is that dog won't run off with my stuff (well okay maybe a shoe but so what).

 

If I look back on my life the majority of the times when I have been sad or depressed there was the actions of a woman I was in love with that was responsible for it. This of course is with the exception of someone dropping dead. However even the friends that have died did not cause me as much pain as the love of a good woman.

 

So please explain this "Love of a good woman" to me again. I'll sit back and enjoy my coffee and cigar and finish my reading while you do this.

[revelations]

You are preventing yourself from finding love and being loved by a woman who can be trusted.

 

So you have freedom to have casual sex, but won't allow yourself the freedom to find true love with a woman you can trust.

 

 

Seems like a poor trade off IMO, and not one that will lead to lasting happiness. People do have a need to feel loved. Genuine love. Meaningless casual encounters do not fill a person's need/desire to be loved. I'm sorry you've hardened your heart because of the hurt you have experienced.

 

Funny thing is that I do feel loved. I have friends that love me dearly and are very protective over me. Let's face it, women have made the cost of being in love with them just too high. For you or anyone else claiming otherwise is to be disengaged from reality to a point that I could never dream of achieving.

 

I will give you credit KathyM and that is you really stick to your guns when trying to get me to change my perspective. The sad part is that I have already paid the price for that same perspective you have now. I forget who said it, but the quote is "Repeating the same action over and over again expecting different results is the definition of insanity". Now guess who is not repeating the same action anymore?

[snappytomcat]

revelations,i hope some day you find someone worthy of you,but I hope you don't push the right one away,and im a bs,my husband cheated and have chosen to reconcile for now,but I was also a good woman,a good friend,a good mother,a good listener(cause he bitched a lot sheesh and they say woman do)and his maid,and chef and I did these things cause I love/loved him,and if it doesn't work out for us,i hope to be able to do these things with someone else,cause I do have a lot of love to give,but I also never want to be married again,or have children,but that's ok,im to old for that anyways

wish you luck in your healing

[revelations]

So you are protecting yourself in order to avoid potential pain, but at what cost? The cost is never having the love of a woman you can trust. If that is something you are willing to give up in order to prevent yourself from risking pain, then I feel sorry for you. Most people would not be willing to live a loveless life. I know you may have parents/siblings/friends who care about you, but that is not the same as experiencing romantic love of a woman you can trust.

 

This statement above completely ignores that I am risking far more than a broken heart. You might as well say that I should look for true love even if it cost me my freedom or has me working until I drop dead.

 

Most people feel the potential benefits far outweigh the potential risks. If money is so important to you that you don't want to risk half of it in order to find true love and happiness, then that's unfortunate. Money is not a permanent thing either. It comes and goes, as if it had the wings of a bird, regardless of your best efforts. Most people put a higher value on love than on money. Money won't buy you happiness, it will only give you a false sense of security.

 

This in a nutshell is a shaming or guilt tactic you are using. I have heard statements similar to this a million times. True money does not buy happiness, however it does keep you from being homeless and hungry. However if money is not important then why do so many women request it during a divorce? Seems to me that as a woman with this view you should be asking that the laws to be changed were no alimony is given at all. Hmm, something seems fishy to me their. Perhaps it is just not important that I have it. Well I'm going to keep my money. Not that I have any great love for it. Just that I enjoy eating and living indoors.

 

Well, if the love of a dog is enough for you, who can't talk to you, who can't dream with you, who can't make love to you, who can't relate to you, who can't do most things with you, who can't take care of you, etc., etc., then, again, I feel sorry for you if you think that will be enough for the long term.

 

Yet again, more guilt and shame from the statement above with a dash of pity. Very impressive run their for you. However since we are listing out what a dog cannot do, let's keep this list going shall we? That dog cannot divorce me (never married duh). That dog cannot take half or more of my retirement. That dog cannot take a large sum of money each month for alimony. That dog cannot have me thrown in jail because I missed a payment or was late. That dog will not compare me to other men at an attempt to lower my self-esteem. So like with anything in life it is a bit of a trade off.

 

Love and relationships come with both extasy, joy, fulfillment, excitement, and with pain. It's a part of life. If you choose a partner wisely, however, you can minimize your pain.

 

Again, has nothing to do with being bitter or minimizing pain. Has everything to do with wanting to stay out of jail and retire. I do not want to be 70yrs old and working because I have to pay alimony. If I am working at that age I want it to be because I want to, not have to.

 

Love of a good woman: someone who is excited to be with you, who appreciates you and treats you well, who is there for you in good times and in bad, who is supportive of you and of your dreams. Who you can relate to on a deeper level. Who cares about you and cares for you. If you don't think that's something worth having, and that the few negative experiences you've had are going to make you deny yourself from experiencing that love, then again, I feel sorry for you.

 

We close it out with even more pity and shaming tactics. Bravo!! What you fail to say in this statement is the joy, love and happiness that she will have watching me work myself to death to pay her off through alimony payments. However I have learned over the years that people find happiness in different ways. Some people look within and are happy from learning and grown as a whole person. Other people look outside of themselves. Material things and money and such to make themselves happy. Usually they gain these things by taking it from others and also get joy making that person suffer. Now I ask, in divorce court who is normally the taker and who is normally the giver? I just want to be able to be comfortable in my old age. It does take money to be able to do this. So is money really that important to me? The answer is NO, it is not. However I do view it as a tool that I need to survive with. So ladies listen up. Money is not that important to me, it is just more important than you.

[janedoe67]

I think part of what KathyM is trying to say is that it is not fair to consign A:: women to this category of being untrustworthy and not worth the risk just because some of us have made crappy choices. And I agree. It is not fair to "punish" faithful woman for the choice of unfaithful ones.

 

I know some BH's who are angry, bitter, and hardened. Should I then presume that ALL BH's are angry, bitter, and hardened?

 

Don't lump the good women in with the bad.

[revelations]

snappytomcat,

 

I am sorry for what you went through. I also think that it is sweet of you to worry about me in the way you do. Yes I have felt all of those things I have posted and I actually worked through it. When I look back on all of it I had to ask myself "what price am I willing to pay" and "am I happy alone or in a relationship with a woman". So my views became as if I was going to gamble on a roulette table. The odds are against me and I have already lost everything a couple of times due to a bad bet or more. Now I am rebuilding my bank and do I want to risk it all again? Of course not, I learned my lesson so I quit gambling.

 

I know this thread comes off a bit bitter, however that is not my perception or intent of this thread. My point is simply that on the other side of that pain is freedom and happiness for me if I chose to accept it. That happiness comes from never having to worry about what a woman can do to me in the family courts again. Trust me the comfort and peace that I feel because of this, is something that no price tag can be placed on. I hope that other men will read this and relate. Maybe even realize that they don't have to marry. Maybe just live with a woman if they really need someone around. I am just hoping to stop at least one man from becoming another slave.

[janedoe67]

I do want to point out that I do not find YOU bitter, revelations. It seems you are in pain and are truly trying to find a way to deal with it all without hurting others.

[snappytomcat]

snappytomcat,

 

I am sorry for what you went through. I also think that it is sweet of you to worry about me in the way you do. Yes I have felt all of those things I have posted and I actually worked through it. When I look back on all of it I had to ask myself "what price am I willing to pay" and "am I happy alone or in a relationship with a woman". So my views became as if I was going to gamble on a roulette table. The odds are against me and I have already lost everything a couple of times due to a bad bet or more. Now I am rebuilding my bank and do I want to risk it all again? Of course not, I learned my lesson so I quit gambling.

 

I know this thread comes off a bit bitter, however that is not my perception or intent of this thread. My point is simply that on the other side of that pain is freedom and happiness for me if I chose to accept it. That happiness comes from never having to worry about what a woman can do to me in the family courts again. Trust me the comfort and peace that I feel because of this, is something that no price tag can be placed on. I hope that other men will read this and relate. Maybe even realize that they don't have to marry. Maybe just live with a woman if they really need someone around. I am just hoping to stop at least one man from becoming another slave.

I really don't find you bitter,hurt yes,and very understandably so,you are very honest in your post which I like,your pouring your feelings out there

[revelations]

I think part of what KathyM is trying to say is that it is not fair to consign A:: women to this category of being untrustworthy and not worth the risk just because some of us have made crappy choices. And I agree. It is not fair to "punish" faithful woman for the choice of unfaithful ones.

 

I know some BH's who are angry, bitter, and hardened. Should I then presume that ALL BH's are angry, bitter, and hardened?

 

Don't lump the good women in with the bad.

 

 

I cannot disagree with what your saying janedoe67 it is unfair to lump everyone in. However it is still a bet that I do not have the bankroll to gamble with.

 

Truthfully this is were all women, not just WW's or BW's all women can actually help out all men. If you notice I talk a lot about the family courts and how bias they are against men. Hell let's face it they make slaves out of us. Men alone cannot cause change in these laws nor can we fight them, let's face it you have all of our money. The only thing I can do is say NO to marriage or say NO to a woman. If women would also encourage changes in the law then you can make yourselves a safe place to be again. You can make marriage safe or having a family safe again. However without these changes you will see more and more men like myself saying NO to all women.

[revelations]

I do want to point out that I do not find YOU bitter, revelations. It seems you are in pain and are truly trying to find a way to deal with it all without hurting others.

 

 

Thank you.. However most of that pain is gone now. I still have nightmares, however I wake up relived and thankful that I am single and no longer living in that pain.