What's going on?

[Moose]

Originally posted by michelangelo

So if his mom says it is no big deal and you say it is a big deal, who wins the paper/rocks/scissors game being played out?

In our marriage, if we come to a head, we have a, "knee to knee you to me", conversation and work out the issue. We don't hold it in, and we don't, "Get even", in a successful marriage the paper/rock/scissors routine doesn't work.

 

You're making me wonder how you raised your 20 and 15 year old using such an immature method.

[michelangelo]

Moose,

 

You're getting defensive. I didn't say I and my wife use that method, but at least in the case of the untied shoe lace incident, you and your wife are.

 

what my wife and I do when we disagree on how a situation should be handled we make sure we're not being played by the kid and present a united front.

 

I do think we temper our wish to have the kids do what we ask them to do with a little understanding of how the teenage mind functions.

 

Yes, peering into that maw of unfinished synaptical firing is a daunting task!

 

If how you handle a teen is to merely "my way, I'm the head of the household!" approach, then you've lost an opportunity. No, I'm not advocating a kid disrespecting his dad. But come on, shoe laces?

[immoralist]

It really is rare that love just "dies" on its own...I know people say that all the time, but the reality is that something kills it..."lovebusters" as their known on the 'other' site. The only time people "fall out of love" with one another is when something has caused one or the other to stop working at the relationship. Or...possibly...they never learned to work on it in the first place. But, if that were the case here, this wouldn't be happening 'out of the blue'...because even he'd feel like something was wrong with the marriage.

 

Most people focus on the front end of a relationship--the falling in love part--I'm much more interested in the back end--the falling out of love part. People like to believe they're in control--especially of their relationships. I wish that maintaining a love attachment only requires "work"--whatever that means. Most people when they use the term "work" in the loss of loving feeling context usually mean that the alienated/disaffected spouse should tough it out indefinitely until someone or something turns the lovelight back on. Just ride it out, they say. Things will improve.

 

Well, guess what? Often things don't improve. The battery is cold and dead and can never ever be jump started, again.

 

Sometimes bad things happen between two good, well meaning people. What if the whole "lovebusters" thing is a myth to give reason and sense to what is , at bottom, a terrifyingly irrational and arbitrary occurrence: this falling out of love? The mind loves to give reasons, to assign blame and to apportion responsibility. The Heart, however, is not always so obliging.

[Moose]

michael,

 

Please, don't insult my intelligence. I know how to deal with my teenagers.....I really don't need your support unless I ask for it. I don't act as dictator in my house, and my son, the 15 year old with shoe laces stuck in his shoes has other issues with his appearance. It's my job to correct him.

 

If appearance is an attribute that I choose to instill in him, it's my business.

[KissMyTiara]

Moose - go to a childrearing forum to discuss whether or not it is appropriate to harp on your 15 year old about his FASHION decisions. (I happen to know that the shoelace thing is considered "cool" by many kids his age - leave him be, pick your battles!!!)

 

Everyone else INTERESTED IN THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD:

I just thought of something you might want to consider. His wife lost a lot of weight over the past year and a half (about 30 pounds, makes a BIG difference on her frame - he didn't lose weight, but he didn't have to, he is a good looking/fit guy - and he was very supportive of her while she made efforts to lose the weight), and about the same time is when she switched jobs to make a lot more money, have a lot more freedom, travel, etc. When she told him she never loved him, he asked her how long she has been having doubts about leaving, and she said a year and a half.

 

It's allllllll a year and a half - the job, the weight loss, the loss of love, the thoughts of leaving.

 

Also remember they got married at 23, and dated exclusively for 3.5 years prior to that. Perhaps she is just trying to "find herself" (for lack of a better phrase)??

 

I DO believe that sometimes love just DOES die. Sadly, it does.

[immoralist]

Relative value is very important in maintaining relationships. By that I mean, the couple should roughly have the same social market value in terms of weight, body type, general appearance, intelligence, etc.

 

When things go off sync--eg, the woman gains 150 lbs and the man keeps his trim college weight--the partners no longer possess equivalent value and the more marketable partner yearns to trade up to someone of his roughly equivalent social market value.

 

Love is often parity. And the loss of love is often preceded by the loss of parity.

 

It's a cruel world.

[Owl]

Well, Immoralist, you and I will have to continue to "agree to disagree" I guess. I think the Lovebusters "myth" is a far more likely reason for relationships to fail than a "well, that just happens" kind of thing. I too have had an interest in how people interact, and the one thing I've learned is that NO ONE does something for no reason at all. Any action we take, or don't take, is motivated by SOMETHING. Sometimes we're not able to see the reasons ourselves (but often an objective 3rd party can)...sometimes we're the ONLY ones who can truly see our reasons. But I've never bought that "just happens" theory. My PERSONAL opinion is that the "just happens" theory over why relationships end is often used by people who won't or can't face THE REASONS that their own relationships failed. (I'm not saying YOU, Immoralist. I'm saying that often people use the whole "just happens" theory in their own circumstances when they can't, or won't, face the facts of their own responsibility in the reasons that the relationship failed).

 

On the "work" thing... For many people, they just seem to think that "I'll fall in love with the RIGHT person, and everything will always be wonderful between us for the rest of our lives, no matter what." And..."If I AM having relationship problems, it's because I've got the WRONG person". They never recognize that a relationship of any kind requires them to put effort into maintaining it...if you have a friend, and never call them or talk with them, how long will they be your friend?

 

For a lot of people, communicating with another person doesn't come naturally. They have trouble in understanding social cues, in getting their own thoughts, ideas, feelings across to other people well. Many people never had a good relationship "role model" if you will...so they have no idea what they need to do to keep a relationship alive and working. They may be a little more self-centered than others... Does this mean that they're bad people? No. Does this mean that they can never have a good relationship? No. What it DOES mean is that they have to pay attention to things a little more...they have to learn to understand their SO's cues...they have to learn to express themselves in ways that their SO can understand. It's NOT natural for a lot of people...it's WORK. If someone is self-centered...getting to the point where they can start thinking "us, us, us" instead of "me, me, me" is darn tough...it takes WORK.

 

Take this instance that KMT has brought up. What are the odds that the wife has COMMUNICATED her unhappiness to her husband? Has she tried to figure out WHAT was lacking in the marriage? Has she asked him to start meeting those needs? Not likely...this was "out of the blue", remember? That tells me that they didn't work on COMMUNICATING. In a lot of ways...not communicating their needs, their wants...not communicating how unhappy she was... This didn't "just happen"...it happened because they didn't work TOGETHER. Because she didn't communicate her needs and unhappiness, because he didn't see them, never learned to ask her about them.

 

But if you just decide that relationships fail "just because"...and never take a look to figure out WHY it failed, you're doomed to make the same mistakes over and over and over....

[sumdude]

Originally posted by immoralist

Relative value is very important in maintaining relationships. By that I mean, the couple should roughly have the same social market value in terms of weight, body type, general appearance, intelligence, etc.

 

When things go off sync--eg, the woman gains 150 lbs and the man keeps his trim college weight--the partners no longer possess equivalent value and the more marketable partner yearns to trade up to someone of his roughly equivalent social market value.

 

Love is often parity. And the loss of love is often preceded by the loss of parity.

 

It's a cruel world.

 

Yikes, that is about the most cynical way of seeing things I've ever heard. Still wayyy off base. I know too many happily married couples whose bodies have changed differently over the years to believe this at all. Social Market Value, trade up? Damn we are not stock options or livestock.

[sumdude]

Originally posted by KissMyTiara

I just thought of something you might want to consider. His wife lost a lot of weight over the past year and a half (about 30 pounds, makes a BIG difference on her frame - he didn't lose weight, but he didn't have to, he is a good looking/fit guy - and he was very supportive of her while she made efforts to lose the weight), and about the same time is when she switched jobs to make a lot more money, have a lot more freedom, travel, etc. When she told him she never loved him, he asked her how long she has been having doubts about leaving, and she said a year and a half.

 

It's allllllll a year and a half - the job, the weight loss, the loss of love, the thoughts of leaving.

 

Also remember they got married at 23, and dated exclusively for 3.5 years prior to that. Perhaps she is just trying to "find herself" (for lack of a better phrase)??

 

I DO believe that sometimes love just DOES die. Sadly, it does.

 

I've seen this happen more than once. A couple meets and marries young. Then one day someone realizes they've never had thier independence. They think, "What did I miss? What else is out there?" They went straight from answering to the parents to answering to the spouse. Never having the chance to free fall and do whatever they like with no one to answer to. There may not be a specific somebody else but I'd bet there are plenty of potential somebody else's in her mind. Maybe just an anybody else.

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by sumdude

 

There may not be a specific somebody else but I'd bet there are plenty of potential somebody else's in her mind. Maybe just an anybody else.

 

This is EXACTLY what I thought.

[sumdude]

I sad thing could happen. She'll get her freedom and explore life and the world. Check out different men, finally see what's out there. Only to find out that she already had a good thing going. But then it might be too late. C'est la vie............

[aloneinTX]

Originally posted by sumdude

I sad thing could happen. She'll get her freedom and explore life and the world. Check out different men, finally see what's out there. Only to find out that she already had a good thing going. But then it might be too late. C'est la vie............

 

Amen, so sad when one learns to late