25 years and out?

[Crossroads66]

I am a 47 year old married man, who got married without much consideration at the age of 23. Over the years there have been a few contented patches, but they have been very few and far between. While my wife is a good person (way better than me!) I fundamentally can't respect her no matter how much I try and brainwash myself. She is also emotionally unstable and our sex life has always been mediocre at best.

 

In 2008 I had an affair. It dissolved, out of frustration because I stayed married. I confessed the relationship (largely because I wanted to use that as a tool to end the marriage) but my wife clung on, and I did not want to be the guy who "wasn't prepared to give things a second go". Well, it didn't really work. Counselling was trite. I have tolerated my home life by wearing a mask of contentment, which is actually pretty transparent to everyone. The kids have witnessed more conflict than any kids should, and they have their own issues. To top it all off, I am just coming out of my second extra-marital relationship, which seems to be ending in similar circumstances to the first. This one remains unconfessed.

 

I have zero doubt, that if we did not have kids, I would be out of there. But - we do have kids. Two teenage daughters and a 7 year old. So I need to be sure. I certainly do have feelings for my wife, but it's more in the form of a very familiar roommate rather than someone with whom I have a deep connection. She will be utterly devastated if I go.

 

Help!

[d0nnivain]

You have more than one foot out the door.

 

If you want to save your marraige put all of your effort & energy into doing that. Get counseling. Date & romance your wife -- flowers, sweet talk, the whole thing.

 

If you don't want to do that, end itm before you cheat again. That's not fair to anyone including you.

[The Like Fairy]

Divorce isn't so bad.

 

Alot of times it's much better for the kids than staying married in an unhappy situation.

 

I say proceed with divorce if you are not happy.

 

Then you will both be free to live in peace.

 

Try to keep the divorce amicable for the sake of the kids.

 

I speak from experience, it can be done, even with an unstable ex-spouse.

 

A large part of this decision will depend on financial considerations as well.

 

Some folks stay together for that reason, as roomates, but separated, for quite a while, - until the unemployed or underemployed spouse gets career training to proceed in supporting themself. That's what I did. For about 3 years. Some situations just can't handle that though.

 

Keep the wellbeing of the kids first and foremost in how you proceed and treat one another. Therapy, even for separating, can be helpful for a mentally unstable spouse in some situations, and particularly helpful for the children in getting through it all. Good luck in any event.

[Crossroads66]

You have more than one foot out the door.

 

If you want to save your marraige put all of your effort & energy into doing that. Get counseling. Date & romance your wife -- flowers, sweet talk, the whole thing.

 

If you don't want to do that, end itm before you cheat again. That's not fair to anyone including you.

Thanks d0nnivain. The flowers, sweet talk....... I have never been able to do. It feels to me to be so forced and makes me want to scream. I completely acknowledge my wife deserves all that stuff though.

 

In terms of shielding the kids, that something my *wife* has never been able to do. They see everything. I'm sure, that after my initial cheating, they went through all the pain they would have for an *actual* divorce! So this as well is a major consideration.

 

Actual happiness in my marriage I don't think is attainable. The only real option for me is to put the mask back on. I'm a good enough actor, and my wife has the right mixture of gullibility and denial to make it work.

[The Like Fairy]

 

Actual happiness in my marriage I don't think is attainable. The only real option for me is to put the mask back on. I'm a good enough actor, and my wife has the right mixture of gullibility and denial to make it work.

 

Interesting. So what's in it for you to stay married?

[Crossroads66]

Interesting. So what's in it for you to stay married?

The social credibility of being a "happily" married man. A bit more financial security. Not ruining the lives of people who are important to me, when I've already done it once before.

[Michelle ma Belle]

You are checked out and done. It's clear as crystal. You're a shell of a man to both your wife and to your children.

 

I am a firm believer that LTR relationships, particularly ones that have children should be fought for and that every rock needs to be turned before jumping ship.

 

At the same time, children aren't stupid and they can sense when things aren't going well between their parents. Staying for the children isn't as noble as you might think especially if they are witnessing you and your wife fighting and arguing and NOT displaying any kind of affection, respect or love.

 

Is that how you want your children to view marriage and/or love?

 

I was there. And although I probably stayed longer than I should have in my marriage initially because of my children, ultimately I left BECAUSE of them. They needed to see me happy and fulfilled. I want(ed) them to know what it means to love someone and be happily married and what was happening in my marriage at the time was NOT a good example of that.

 

I am inexplicably happier these days and now that my kids are older (teenagers), I have talked with them about my marriage and why I had to end it (keeping some details private of course). And whenever I do, I am always careful to remain respectful of their father. He may not have been the best husband but he's an awesome father and I can never take that away from him or his kids.

 

Bottom line - you want out, so get out. Stop making excuses about your wife or your kids. You're not saving anyone from anything and only prolonging the inevitable.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Michelle ma Belle

[Crossroads66]

You are checked out and done. It's clear as crystal. You're a shell of a man to both your wife and to your children.

 

IYou're not saving anyone from anything and only prolonging the inevitable.

Thanks Michelle. Wow.

 

Shell of a man? Yes, true. I hasten to add I manage to fulfil the role of father, and can go throught the motions of family life and activities; but the word "shell" did ring very true. Internally as much as externally.

 

Why do you think the inevitable is inevitable? I've been sucking this up for 25 years. My capacity to absorb low-grade unhappiness unfortunately seems infinite.

[Michelle ma Belle]

Thanks Michelle. Wow.

 

Shell of a man? Yes, true. I hasten to add I manage to fulfil the role of father, and can go throught the motions of family life and activities; but the word "shell" did ring very true. Internally as much as externally.

 

Why do you think the inevitable is inevitable? I've been sucking this up for 25 years. My capacity to absorb low-grade unhappiness unfortunately seems infinite.

 

Being physically present isn't the same as being emotionally, spiritually present. Are you really THAT great of an actor? I doubt it. We all see what we want to see.

 

I'm confused about what kind of advice you're seeking?

 

You're clearly not happy with your marriage. You claim that you "fundamentally can't respect her no matter how much I try and brainwash myself". (I'm not even sure I completely understand that). You've gone off and had at least two affairs so far and then flat out admit that if it weren't for the kids, you'd be gone already. I don't see a question in any of this.

 

Are you looking for advice on how to rekindle what you once had with your wife? Are you wanting advice on how you can help your wife with her issues? Are you looking for validation for your extra marital affairs? Need kudos for being so good at "sucking it up" and having a "capacity to absorb low-grade unhappiness"? Want advice on how to get out of your marriage while shielding your children? What?

 

What I would like to point out is that life is too short to live in an unhappy and fulfilling situation. Even if you've invested 25 years. I was with my ex for 20 years total so I know what I'm talking about.

 

But if living this way for the supposed betterment of those around you and running off with other women to fulfill a need is good enough for you, then good I guess. It's your life and your choice. I just don't know what you're asking of us.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Michelle ma Belle

[Crossroads66]

Are you looking for advice on how to rekindle what you once had with your wife? Yikes! No! Are you wanting advice on how you can help your wife with her issues? Again, no. I played the shoulder-to-cry on for 20 years. No more. Are you looking for validation for your extra marital affairs? Nope. Need kudos for being so good at "sucking it up" and having a "capacity to absorb low-grade unhappiness"? Again, no. Narcissism is one of my faults, but I'm not that bad. Want advice on how to get out of your marriage while shielding your children? Yes, that would be helpful.?

 

It's your life and your choice. I just don't know what you're asking of us.

Basically I need help just getting over the last little hump. I've given up waiting for 100% certainty that separation/divorce is the right thing. But I feel I need just a little more validation. Talking helps. Hearing others' opinions helps. That's why I'm here.

[Michelle ma Belle]

Basically I need help just getting over the last little hump. I've given up waiting for 100% certainty that separation/divorce is the right thing. But I feel I need just a little more validation. Talking helps. Hearing others' opinions helps. That's why I'm here.

 

Talking indeed helps.

 

So you know with 100% certainty that your marriage will NEVER get better then?

 

I certainly don't have any answers just MY experience. It helps to be on the same page with your spouse. Of course, that took some time, to get my ex husband to realize that we needed a separation (in fact, almost 4 years).

 

Once we got to this point, we talked at great length about the well being of our children. We even sought help from our therapists on how to make this transition knowing full well that it was going to be hard no matter how miserable we all were living together.

 

When we broke the news, it was heartbreaking to see their reactions. Still brings tears to my eyes replaying that moment in my mind BUT it was necessary. I knew we all deserved better. I knew we could both be better parents if we were happier.

 

So we spent several days talking and crying about it. We were open and honest and made packs and promises to one another and then we KEPT those promises to each other and our children. THAT is critical.

 

Today, my ex and I are the best of friends, sincerely. We co-parent our children and stay in constant communication regarding them. We are always respectful, accommodating, kind and loving when speaking of the other person and remind our children that the reasons for why it didn't work had absolutely NOTHING to do with them.

 

I know we are very unique, or at least that's what everyone tells us and I'm proud of that fact. At the same time, it isn't impossible but you both have to come to the same head space and work together otherwise it will be very challenging.

[Crossroads66]

So you know with 100% certainty that your marriage will NEVER get better then?

No...... and I guess that's another factor. But there's no denying the last 25 years - even before we had kids, part of me was screaming to get out. Back then, I assumed that *I* was the problem.

 

I don't ever see us coming to a mutually agreeable decision. Conversations along these lines - when we get down to the gutsy stuff - invariably just degenerate into floods of tears.

[Michelle ma Belle]

No...... and I guess that's another factor. But there's no denying the last 25 years - even before we had kids, part of me was screaming to get out. Back then, I assumed that *I* was the problem.

 

I don't ever see us coming to a mutually agreeable decision. Conversations along these lines - when we get down to the gutsy stuff - invariably just degenerate into floods of tears.

 

Have you tried marriage therapy? Is your wife seeing a therapist for her issues? Have you talked at all or at any great length about your unhappiness? How does your wife view your marriage? What do you think SHE wants?

[beach]

Is there any point to staying married when it's a dishonest M and the kids see a poor example of what marriage is?

 

You can be their Dad even when you divorce.

 

Solving your marital problems by having affairs is not a solution.

 

You are hurting many people the way you are participating in your marriage.

 

Get honest again with your wife - she deserves a man to REALLY love her if he says he does.

[beach]

Thanks Michelle. Wow.

 

Shell of a man? Yes, true. I hasten to add I manage to fulfil the role of father, and can go throught the motions of family life and activities; but the word "shell" did ring very true. Internally as much as externally.

 

Why do you think the inevitable is inevitable? I've been sucking this up for 25 years. My capacity to absorb low-grade unhappiness unfortunately seems infinite.

 

Obviously you don't absorb low grade unhappiness without finding a selfish solution outside your marriage.

 

Now you've used two more women and caused more harm because you don't want to get divorced.

 

Come on, either stay faithful and stop cheating or get divorced and date whoever you want!

 

Doing both is just hurtful to everyone but yourself.

[Crossroads66]

Obviously you don't absorb low grade unhappiness without finding a selfish solution outside your marriage.

 

Now you've used two more women and caused more harm because you don't want to get divorced.

 

Come on, either stay faithful and stop cheating or get divorced and date whoever you want!

 

Doing both is just hurtful to everyone but yourself.

Yep fair cop.

[Crossroads66]

Have you tried marriage therapy? Is your wife seeing a therapist for her issues? Have you talked at all or at any great length about your unhappiness? How does your wife view your marriage? What do you think SHE wants?

All valid questions. Yes, we endured marriage therapy after my first affair. It's contribution is that it gets you talking and expressing, that's true; but in terms of seeking clarity, or even relationship advice? - forget about it. They basically tell you "relationships take work/there's give & take/men are from Mars, women are from Venus" and then charge you $150. Spare me.

 

I have talked a bit about my unhappiness, but much of it stems from the fact I'm just not happy with her as a person, in fundamental ways she can't change (nor should she even want to). How does one even begin to put that nicely?? I don't want to destroy the mother of my children any more than I absolutely have to. In terms of how she views things - well, prior to my first affair she thought we were happy (we most definitely were *not*). I think she's never really known what a positive relationship can be, so doesn't know what she's missing. She deserves a partner who actually wants to be around her. I'm not that guy, but she doesn't see it. I was astonished to discover from my friends, that some of them actually, genuinely *do* want to spend time with their wives. I didn't think that was even possible!

[Michelle ma Belle]

All valid questions. Yes, we endured marriage therapy after my first affair. It's contribution is that it gets you talking and expressing, that's true; but in terms of seeking clarity, or even relationship advice? - forget about it. They basically tell you "relationships take work/there's give & take/men are from Mars, women are from Venus" and then charge you $150. Spare me.

 

I have talked a bit about my unhappiness, but much of it stems from the fact I'm just not happy with her as a person, in fundamental ways she can't change (nor should she even want to). How does one even begin to put that nicely?? I don't want to destroy the mother of my children any more than I absolutely have to. In terms of how she views things - well, prior to my first affair she thought we were happy (we most definitely were *not*). I think she's never really known what a positive relationship can be, so doesn't know what she's missing. She deserves a partner who actually wants to be around her. I'm not that guy, but she doesn't see it. I was astonished to discover from my friends, that some of them actually, genuinely *do* want to spend time with their wives. I didn't think that was even possible!

 

Oh my goodness.

 

Having that kind of attitude about marriage therapy certainly doesn't help. I think you're like most men and just assume marriage is supposed to be easy, that somehow, unlike when you were dating and having to woo her, once you put a ring on her finger you finally got to take a break, sit back and relax and expect that things will somehow remain as it was.

 

Doesn't work that way I'm afraid.

 

My ex had the same attitude about marriage therapy. I had to drag his ass to them and when we got there, he was the perfect participant. He smiled and laughed, he charmed the therapist, said all the right thing, nodded his head when he thought it was appropriate and agreed to do the work. The minute we left the office, he checked out again and complained the whole care ride home that therapy was ridiculous.

 

Guess what? We're divorced now

 

Marriage, or rather ANY relationship takes work and effort. You either WANT to do it or you don't. There is no in between and no getting around it IF you want to be happy in it.

 

On to your second point; you say that you don't like her as a person and yet you describe her as being a good woman, better than you even. That you still have feelings for her and a connection. How can you say those things and then claim your have a problem with who she is fundamentally? Please explain.

 

She might be an emotional wreck and you might think you're saving her a massive breakdown by staying with her but what about YOU? What about your kids? Again, they aren't stupid. You have teenagers. I have a teenager too. Just because they might not tell you how they're feeling doesn't mean they don't. Maybe you're not the only good actor in the family.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Michelle ma Belle

[Mystery2Me]

So sorry I am your family finds themselves living in such challenging conditions.

 

About 3 yrs ago, after enduring a very similiar marriage (no kids) my ex-husband left me after pretending all was well.

 

Of course I was shocked not because I thought our marriage was a good one....but rather because he lied and was not honest about his plan to just abandon the marriage.

 

Literally on our 15th anniversary during dinner is when he announced he was DONE!

 

So it wasn't that I so blind about the circumstances of the marriage, had I known I would have been so hurt.

 

See it was his treatment of me rather than how much he still loved me.

 

Fast forward, I healed living a great life....I just returned from a solo vacation in France:D:D:D

 

See my ex-husband overrated himself...and only caused my great heartache because of Completely Un-Needed Drama!!!!

 

Do not under estimate how agreeable you wife maybe to be free of the shell of a marriage too. (Just like Fairy Tail indicated).

 

In the end you are a bit to self-absorbed, you wife may be a completely different person once free from dealing with the long-lasting effects of being married to a serial cheater.

[Crossroads66]

Oh my goodness.

 

Having that kind of attitude about marriage therapy certainly doesn't help. I think you're like most men and just assume marriage is supposed to be easy, that somehow, unlike when you were dating and having to woo her, once you put a ring on her finger you finally got to take a break, sit back and relax and expect that things will somehow remain as it was.

 

Doesn't work that way I'm afraid.

 

My ex had the same attitude about marriage therapy. I had to drag his ass to them and when we got there, he was the perfect participant. He smiled and laughed, he charmed the therapist, said all the right thing, nodded his head when he thought it was appropriate and agreed to do the work. The minute we left the office, he checked out again and complained the whole care ride home that therapy was ridiculous.

 

Guess what? We're divorced now

 

Marriage, or rather ANY relationship takes work and effort. You either WANT to do it or you don't. There is no in between and no getting around it IF you want to be happy in it.

 

On to your second point; you say that you don't like her as a person and yet you describe her as being a good woman, better than you even. That you still have feelings for her and a connection. How can you say those things and then claim your have a problem with who she is fundamentally? Please explain.

 

She might be an emotional wreck and you might think you're saving her a massive breakdown by staying with her but what about YOU? What about your kids? Again, they aren't stupid. You have teenagers. I have a teenager too. Just because they might not tell you how they're feeling doesn't mean they don't. Maybe you're not the only good actor in the family.

No, you misunderstand me. Of course I know relationships take effort. My point is that marriage therapy just states the bleeding obvious. In terms of seeking clarity, I found it useless.

 

My second point? My wife *is* a good person. Her ethics, sense of right and wrong are impeccable. But she isn't on my wavelength. I can't communicate with her without using subtitles. She can also be incredibly tactless and not realise it. My attempts at intimacy, and sharing are either unrecognised as such, or just get trampled on. She gets severely anxious over relative trivia. I could go on and on, but I feel dirty even typing that much.

[Michelle ma Belle]

No, you misunderstand me. Of course I know relationships take effort. My point is that marriage therapy just states the bleeding obvious. In terms of seeking clarity, I found it useless.

 

My second point? My wife *is* a good person. Her ethics, sense of right and wrong are impeccable. But she isn't on my wavelength. I can't communicate with her without using subtitles. She can also be incredibly tactless and not realise it. My attempts at intimacy, and sharing are either unrecognised as such, or just get trampled on. She gets severely anxious over relative trivia. I could go on and on, but I feel dirty even typing that much.

 

If I could wave a magic wand over your marriage, what would you want it look like? What is the ideal outcome you want from all of this?

[Crossroads66]

If I could wave a magic wand over your marriage, what would you want it look like? What is the ideal outcome you want from all of this?

Never to have happened in the first place. Make that 23 year old listen to the voices in his head telling him not to do it.

 

So, I wouldn't have married this person if I had my time again, but that doesn't necessarily clinch the argument that I should cause more people even more pain now. Okay, so me with a mask on, playing a role is not the perfect husband/father; but it just might be better on them than the divorce.

 

So magic wand? I guess it would be divorce, with non-traumatised kids and two parents that can interact amicably.

[d0nnivain]

You are willing to "put on a mask" and fake happiness for some sort of social conformity but you aren't willing to fake sweet talk & flowers because those feel too insincere to you?

 

 

Ummmmm. . . . . maybe you want to rethink that?

 

 

If you are going to try to hide your own feelings (which I don't think is a great idea), at least give the flowers & romance a shot. They don't even have to be expensive florist flowers. Since Mother's Day is Sunday, every grocery store has beautiful bouquets.

[Crossroads66]

You are willing to "put on a mask" and fake happiness for some sort of social conformity but you aren't willing to fake sweet talk & flowers because those feel too insincere to you?

 

 

Ummmmm. . . . . maybe you want to rethink that?

 

 

If you are going to try to hide your own feelings (which I don't think is a great idea), at least give the flowers & romance a shot. They don't even have to be expensive florist flowers. Since Mother's Day is Sunday, every grocery store has beautiful bouquets.

To an extent, I acknowledge the paradox. But the flowers/romance seems to me such an insincere expression of love/affection which gets acknowledged as the opposite. That makes me want to scream.

 

Just typing that, I realise it indicates something pretty huge.

[beach]

You can't fool yourself. You can lie to yourself (denial of your truth) - but deep down you know what is real.

 

That much pretending will make a person physically sick from betraying self.

 

Your W may not be as devastated as you think. Affairs cause a person to be more guarded - she may actually be secretly happy since you've given time and energy outside your marriage.

 

You can't be that great of a husband and father when you cheat to solve your issues.

 

Don't think you're irreplaceable.

Edited May 9, 2014 by beach