25 years and out?

[Crossroads66]

Going home is not going to make everyones pain go away? How?

Because that's what my wife and kids desperately want.

 

Are you sleeping with both during this time period ?

For the love of heaven, no. I moved out of the family home, and there was no sex at home for two months prior to that.

 

What is morally reprehensible is to string the two women along whilst you half-assed attempt both at the same time

I agree, it's far from tidy, but can I not be forgiven at all for the fact that I am constantly pleaded with to come home screws with my head a bit...... and what I "want" changes from one moment to the next??

 

You had this professed "come to Jesus" moment months ago. What's changed?

I had "come to Jesus" moments back the other way.

 

but you obviously don't love her so let her go

Please - explain to me like I'm a two year old - why is this obvious?? Thanks.

[Downtown]

Thanks downtown, yes you are right to ask. No drug abuse or hormone change.... What she actually has is an anxiety disorder with occasional bouts of depression as well.

Perhaps so, Crossroads. Yet, if she truly is emotionally unstable as you have said, that instability would not have arisen from anxiety or depression alone. Most people suffering from depression or anxiety are quite stable. I therefore suggest again that you follow the link I gave you about the typical differences between BPD and bipolar warning signs. I also suggest you look at my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar.

[Crossroads66]

Perhaps so, Crossroads. Yet, if she truly is emotionally unstable as you have said, that instability would not have arisen from anxiety or depression alone. Most people suffering from depression or anxiety are quite stable. I therefore suggest again that you follow the link I gave you about the typical differences between BPD and bipolar warning signs. I also suggest you look at my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar.

Some sound very familiar (in particular points 6, 10 and 15) But not others - eg. the impulsive behaviour is not there (quite the opposite in fact). Regards

[beach]

You bivouacs intend to keep seeing your OW.

 

And your attempt to break free from your M in the past few months has you visiting there most days.

 

So start changing things. I'm sure your OW doesn't like that you stop at your wife's place every day! What are you doing there every day? Does your wife feed you? What's the point? Your W is likely to get the impression that you can't live without seeing her. What - does she cook for you and do your laundry?

 

Have your kids come to your place if you intend to see them! Stop going over to see your wife. It's giving her the impression you still love her and need to be with her. It probably pisses off your OW that you stay so connected to your wife.

 

Be a man. Stand on your own. Start to live independently of your wife. Stop going over there. When you do your W will get the idea that the M is over.

 

Have you filed for divorce? If not, why not? You don't love her so file.

 

Start acting as if you intend to divorce - otherwise you're just sending the W mixed signals which is mean and cruel. It really makes you look like a baby that is attached to his MOMMY'S purse strings. Start being ON YOUR OWN.

[lolablue17]

You say you have some feelings to your wife. You say that she can tolerate herself even when you went in\out.

 

So why do you think that the only options are totally in, or totally out?

It could be that your wife fulfills some of your needs, but not all.

 

Ask her if she is willing to live in an open marriage with you. Open marriage doesn't mean everybody go $crewing others every night, but it can tolerate some degree of freedom, with agreed boundaries.

 

I'm almost sure that if and when you get that pass, You will rarely use it. But you will get the feeling of freedom and maybe that's all you need. Ask her, what have you got to lose?

[still_an_Angel]

 

I take your point about "letting my wife go", but in my case that actually means "finally pushing her away", and she has said she will be devastated if/when that finally happens. And in the meantime, my urge just to go running home and make everyones' pain go away is occasionally huge.

 

 

 

When my stbxH asked to come home after his 2year stint overseas, I very very reluctantly agreed. He was broke, jobless, carless, homeless, etc and the kids begged. Although I knew it wasn't going to be for the best, I did it because of the kids. I thought it will ease everyone's pain and will help my son with his problems. Big mistake, after a couple of months, we all were in a worse position and it did not help when I asked him to leave. The kids were distraught, upset, and I was angry. I know my situation is far from yours but my point is if you come back (against your true wish not to) and "try again", if it fails, the effect on the children (who you are doing it for in the first place) is more devastating. Why give them false hope? Why go back to pretend that you really want to be there? You will not do anyone any favours, kids are not dumb and can pick up on so many things that you think they're oblivious to, even if you are the best actor. Besides, being an actor is for everyone to see, for the audience, The real players in this drama go by underlying feelings which even the best actor cannot completely hide.

 

 

I think you need to work on yourself first. You jumped from your M to another relationship without finding yourself first. This is probably why you are lost, you can't stay with your new partner and wish to be at home with your W & kids, because you do not know yourself. I believe you must be able to be happy with yourself first before you can share yourself with another person. You can't place your happiness on another and hope that this person will 'complete' you.

 

 

You are not your wife's only source of happiness and sunshine, you might be surprised how people can cope with life once they're thrown a bag of nails. She is a grown woman who has to learn somehow that you do not hold the sun that lights her life. You need to let her go, specially since you were never her true love and lover.

[81West]

I take your point about "letting my wife go", but in my case that actually means "finally pushing her away", and she has said she will be devastated if/when that finally happens. And in the meantime, my urge just to go running home and make everyones' pain go away is occasionally huge.

 

Sometimes the pull to feel or act in any given direction flows from an emotional discomfort that actually serves you more effectively than it serves the hard truths of a situation. In the same way that the parent of an addict can be an unintentional enabler because it pushes the pain and terror of seeing their child in danger and distress just ahead, always just a little bit ahead, a spouse can linger too long in a failing marriage. If you go home it needs to be because it is as right a thing as can be determined, not because you are unwilling to bear the way breaking up your family makes you feel. There is no perfect course here, but surely there is one direction better than the other that can be gleaned.

 

I think it starts with a clear, hard, dispassionate view of what your marriage really is, and how it impacts all involved, wherever that leads. If you go home your pain at their pain will go away. But you will be normalizing your marriage for your children who always learn so much more from what we do than what we say. Would you wish your marriage on your children? Or do you want something different for them that you could model if you take another path? You need to figure out what the true best interests of all parties are, and you need to be willing to do the best thing even if it's the excruciatingly hard thing. And really, aren't the right things to do usually the terribly hard things to do?

[Mr. Lucky]

I agree, it's far from tidy, but can I not be forgiven at all for the fact that I am constantly pleaded with to come home screws with my head a bit...... and what I "want" changes from one moment to the next??

 

You're overthinking this. Even you would admit this can't go on much longer.

 

Man up, pick one course and accept the benefits and consequences. Your life will go on, your wife and kids will survive either way and you'll hopefully find peace preferable to paralysis ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Angies100]

Hi crossroad,

 

I am new to this forum and never posted any responses but I felt compelled to respond to yours as I can relate to your story.

 

I want to share with you my personal story with my ex husband. I have been divorced from my ex husband for 20 years so I can really look back and see that divorce was the best action for all concerned.

 

I got married to my ex husband at the age of 24 when we found out that I was pregnant with my first child. So our marriage did not get off on a good start. On my part I loved and respected my ex husband very much but I am not sure I cannot say the same for how he felt for me.

 

At about the 5 years mark I can feel that the love and affection had gone in our relationship. It seemed such a chore for him to be the husband and the father. He gave everything to his job and family and friends but gave very little to his little family emotionally and financially. It was obvious to me that he did not want to be there.

 

At one point around this time I started to feel that the marriage is no longer sustainable but I did not have the courage to call it quit as I was not sure if this was the right thing for me to do. So I kept at it. I tried to keep him happy and kept the marriage exciting, but this did not work when only one partner is willing.

 

My ex husband had many affairs in the last few years of the marriage but felt that he needed to stay for the children's sake and want to keep this happy family facade up until our youngest turned 18. When I found out about his affair I demanded a divorce. He told me at this point that he never loved me. Our 11 years together was just a flow of motions of setting houses and bringing up kids. This admission was devastated to me. I felt like I have wasted 11 years of my youth to this person.

 

So if I had a backbone I shouldn't have married this person in the first place or had the courage to leave after 5 years. If he got a backbone he should have left before he started his affairs. Needless to say the divorce was the best thing that happened to all of us. He married his mistress soon after the divorce finalized and proceed to have 2 children with her. I worked hard to rebuild my career and bring up 2 children by myself. We are much happier people separately.

 

So the best policy is honesty. Be honest with yourself, stay if you really want to be there or have the courage to leave. It is easy to stay and play happy family or give your wife the wrong impression that you are willing to reconcile when you are not. Children are resilient and they will recover. Just make sure that you will be there to support them.

[Crossroads66]

I'm going back.

 

Firstly, and inescapably, there's no getting away from the fact that what I have done, and who I have slowly become, goes against all my values. Okay, I never had the chance to find myself as an adult - but my fundamental values of being a good person, honesty, and integrity were all there at one time. And now I have had not one, but *two* extramarital relationships?? For crying out loud.......

 

Secondly, no-one can ever predict whether a relationship plagued only with doldrums/low-level conflict is worth salvaging. Every decision to divorce (or not) is something of a coin toss. There is no crystal ball. While the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour, there are no guarantees. People can, and do, change. And with children in the equation, why would anyone walk away from a relationship before knowing, in your heart, that you have tried as much as you can? In my case, I don't know that - yet. Sure, I have put in the "time" (25 years of it). But was it quality time? Did I try as much as I should? Did I behave as well as I should? No.

[BlueIris]

I'm going back.

 

Firstly, and inescapably, there's no getting away from the fact that what I have done, and who I have slowly become, goes against all my values. Okay, I never had the chance to find myself as an adult - but my fundamental values of being a good person, honesty, and integrity were all there at one time. And now I have had not one, but *two* extramarital relationships?? For crying out loud.......

 

Secondly, no-one can ever predict whether a relationship plagued only with doldrums/low-level conflict is worth salvaging. Every decision to divorce (or not) is something of a coin toss. There is no crystal ball. While the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour, there are no guarantees. People can, and do, change. And with children in the equation, why would anyone walk away from a relationship before knowing, in your heart, that you have tried as much as you can? In my case, I don't know that - yet. Sure, I have put in the "time" (25 years of it). But was it quality time? Did I try as much as I should? Did I behave as well as I should? No.

 

Something else is going on because this makes no sense. What’s the work/financial situation for each of you? Does someone have a drug or alcohol problem? Is there something else?

[Crossroads66]

Something else is going on because this makes no sense. What’s the work/financial situation for each of you? Does someone have a drug or alcohol problem? Is there something else?

I earn 80% of the household income. We have had major issues with our kids at various times. No one has a drug or alcohol problem. My wife came from a family background like that and brought baggage from it into our marriage; but I think now after 30 years that has ceased to be the millstone it once was. Thanks for your reply, but I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at?

[Pinkdisney]

You're overthinking this. Even you would admit this can't go on much longer.

 

Man up, pick one course and accept the benefits and consequences. Your life will go on, your wife and kids will survive either way and you'll hopefully find peace preferable to paralysis ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I completely agree - and I don't know what drew me to this post or part of the forum because I was cheated on repeatedly by my Ex-H of 13 years and the fact you think this revolving door is better for anyone involved is totally wrong. My Ex was emotionally checked out of my marriage for years, blaming me for everything wrong. I knew he was cheating on me and I built up so much resentment for it and it was an awful way to live. When he finally did me a favor by stranding me in another country with myself and my children and I had to come back home with my tail between my legs did I finally see my self-worth enough to rip off the band-aid and file for divorce. I'm now close to 3 years out and life has gone on. It's not been all roses but i've kept things comfortable and familiar for my children while rebuilding my life and career. I even met someone 2 years ago and we've been going strong ever since. You think you're doing everyone a huge favor but you're not. Sorry for being blunt but I can't help but say how I feel.

[BlueIris]

I earn 80% of the household income. We have had major issues with our kids at various times. No one has a drug or alcohol problem. My wife came from a family background like that and brought baggage from it into our marriage; but I think now after 30 years that has ceased to be the millstone it once was. Thanks for your reply, but I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at?

 

Beach, Mystery2Me and others already covered all of this pages back. But you’re moving back. That just doesn't make sense to me and there's usually a practical reason and a benefit derived. Occam's Razor-ish. I tend to think that the more complex the justification, the simpler the real reason.

 

Given how you’ve described your wife, marriage and family, you must have some reason that is a benefit to you because it doesn’t sound like a benefit to them. I’d hate to be used as the reason or excuse for someone’s ongoing misery. That’s a terrible millstone to place on someone else, especially family.

 

From what I've seen, the most common “real” reason that people stay, while miserable and stressing everyone else, is money. There are other common reasons, like fear, having someone to blame, not facing something, having someone who will do the parenting and caregiving. Maybe it's related to having affairs. I don’t know. Only you do.

[Crossroads66]

Beach, Mystery2Me and others already covered all of this pages back. But you’re moving back. That just doesn't make sense to me and there's usually a practical reason and a benefit derived

There is most definitely no ulterior motive. What doesn't make sense to *me* is that my wife is absolutely clear that I am capable of changing my behaviour permanently, and being a good husband/father again. In spite of my (and others!) repeated encouragement to look at the hard facts; she is absolutely clear she wants me back to work at our marriage. So there is pressure from her, and the kids. And I have always maintained that if I *could* have an open, honest, loving and intimate relationship with my wife....... that would be the best thing for all concerned.

I’d hate to be used as the reason or excuse for someone’s ongoing misery

Absolutely, and this is my major concern. That after the "yay Dad's back" euphoria settles, the same resentments start creeping back in....... and then we're back to square 1. Only worse this time.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm going back.

 

What does that mean in practical terms? Back to the misery that drove you out of the house in the first place? It would seem you see this as doing right by your wife and kids, not really the case unless real change is effectuated.

 

How will that happen ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Crossroads66]

What does that mean in practical terms? Back to the misery that drove you out of the house in the first place? It would seem you see this as doing right by your wife and kids, not really the case unless real change is effectuated.

 

How will that happen ???

 

Mr. Lucky

It means go back, rebuild trust......... and yes, effect real change. Open communication and honesty, even when it's difficult. Be engaged. Develop genuine intimacy. Stop all the bad behaviour (on both sides).

[beach]

It means go back, rebuild trust......... and yes, effect real change. Open communication and honesty, even when it's difficult. Be engaged. Develop genuine intimacy. Stop all the bad behaviour (on both sides).

 

That's good to hear!

 

What exactly are you planning to do to be sure you participate so the above is your outcome?

 

What is your plan of action?

[BlueIris]

There is most definitely no ulterior motive. What doesn't make sense to *me* is that my wife is absolutely clear that I am capable of changing my behaviour permanently, and being a good husband/father again. In spite of my (and others!) repeated encouragement to look at the hard facts; she is absolutely clear she wants me back to work at our marriage. So there is pressure from her, and the kids. And I have always maintained that if I *could* have an open, honest, loving and intimate relationship with my wife....... that would be the best thing for all concerned.

Absolutely, and this is my major concern. That after the "yay Dad's back" euphoria settles, the same resentments start creeping back in....... and then we're back to square 1. Only worse this time.

 

I don’t think it’s wise or fair to go back if you think you’re doing it under pressure from her and the kids. We all have the freedom and responsibility of an adult, spouse and parent to do what we think is right no matter what anyone else does. Placing responsibility on her (she wants, she thinks, she’s putting pressure on) sounds like it could be a set up to blame her again and that you're not all in. Sure, damage and resentments will come up. But embracing the power of being responsible for our own choices and actions makes things much much better, not worse.

[Crossroads66]

That's good to hear!

 

What exactly are you planning to do to be sure you participate so the above is your outcome?

 

What is your plan of action?

Thanks Beach

 

It would mean

1. Returning home, and announcing I'm here to stay. Have a family talk encouraging honesty, respect, and sharing feelings.

2. Get through the first painful couple of weeks when I'd be missing the AP like hell. This is actually what scares me the most.

3. Give wife full access to phone, computer etc.

4. Go into counseling. I think counseling - in terms of seeking clarity and insight is often fairly useless, but it does at least provide a safe environment to share feelings and problems.

5. Behave well. Do nothing I wouldn't do with my wife standing there.

[Crossroads66]

I don’t think it’s wise or fair to go back if you think you’re doing it under pressure from her and the kids. We all have the freedom and responsibility of an adult, spouse and parent to do what we think is right no matter what anyone else does. Placing responsibility on her (she wants, she thinks, she’s putting pressure on) sounds like it could be a set up to blame her again and that you're not all in. Sure, damage and resentments will come up. But embracing the power of being responsible for our own choices and actions makes things much much better, not worse.

I take your point in that unless *I* take responsibility for this choice now and forever, I'm setting it up to fail again. In terms of "freedom and responsibility"....... yes, we have that, but as a parent (and a spouse) you also have responsibilities that supersede our selfish desires.

[KBarletta]

Thanks Beach

 

It would mean

1. Returning home, and announcing I'm here to stay. Have a family talk encouraging honesty, respect, and sharing feelings.

2. Get through the first painful couple of weeks when I'd be missing the AP like hell. This is actually what scares me the most.

3. Give wife full access to phone, computer etc.

4. Go into counseling. I think counseling - in terms of seeking clarity and insight is often fairly useless, but it does at least provide a safe environment to share feelings and problems.

5. Behave well. Do nothing I wouldn't do with my wife standing there.

 

I hope this is the right decision for you, and I hope it all works out.

 

These sound like productive steps to take. But PLEASE do not go into counseling with anything approaching an idea in your head that it is useless or you will be doomed to fail. If you ask me, you both need a long time in counseling before you can begin to get to solid ground. If one of you isn't 100 percent committed to that aspect of the healing process, you're likely doomed.

 

My advice- Go into everything you list above with an open mind and open heart, or don't go at all.

[BlueIris]

...In terms of "freedom and responsibility"....... yes, we have that, but as a parent (and a spouse) you also have responsibilities that supersede our selfish desires.

 

What I meant was that we are free and have individual responsibility when we choose. If our marriage and family is truly first, there's nothing competing, nothing to supersede, no sacrifice. We're doing what we want most to get what we want most- being "selfish." That's what I meant.

[Mr. Lucky]

4. Go into counseling. I think counseling - in terms of seeking clarity and insight is often fairly useless, but it does at least provide a safe environment to share feelings and problems.

 

As others have pointed out, a dangerous attitude.

 

I'd focus on IC first. You have some tendencies in conflict avoidance and poor coping skills that make you a tough candidate for a successful marriage (as do I ). You'll want and need to better understand your own role in all of this. Best of luck...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr. Lucky]

Stop all the bad behaviour (on both sides).

 

Also, you're only in charge of you. Realizing that helps you accept her warts and all...

 

Mr. Lucky