25 years and out?

[still_an_Angel]

I'm not married as long as you have been but can relate to your situation. I had some niggling doubts when I married the hubby but I chose to ignore them (and all the negative stuff my family had to say) and married him anyway. 10years on, he finally got up and left us, my youngest child at the time was 2years old. We did not do any counselling or saw anyone who might have helped, he chose to move to australia and after some time, cut off all contact. I was too busy scrambling and putting together our lives back to even think about what could have been done to make the transition for the kids more subtle and acceptable. So me being the parent who dealt with all of the kids' issues know and understand how hard this is. I had to get professional help for my eldest child who was most affected by the events in our lives.

 

After 2 years the hubby came back stating he realised being with us is where he wants to be. It was primarily for the kids and not the relationship with me that he decided to come home. It took me months , and him being broke, jobless and homeless, to allow him to live with us. We are separated again now, this time round it was me who asked him to leave (he's back on his feet again) and neither of us is interested in reconciling for us, our relationship has been long over and dead. Staying together for the kids did not work, the few times that we were both inside the house was filled with fighting, animosity, or dead silence ignoring each other that it wasnt healthy for everyone. This might not be whats going on in your house but children are far more perceptive than you might think. You may be the best actor but your kids can feel what is real and know what is really going on. It was not the best move because real happiness cannot be faked, the kids can see through the facade, trust me.

 

Now that we are separated and both happier with our lives, the kids look forward to spending time with both parents in a relaxed environment. They can feel this, and its far healthier for everyone. My eldest child has even told me that our situation is better now, the underlying stress is gone and parents no longer walk on eggshells around each other, laughing is for real.

Edited May 9, 2014 by still_an_Angel

[SpiritualAlchemy]

Your wife deserves better. You don't fundamentally like who she is? Fine, leave her so she can grieve, then find someone who does think the world of her!

 

You've talked about "acting" and this kind of behavior in your homelife, and marriage. Are you serious? Time to leave. Don't put your kids and wife through this any longer! You find it hard to respect her? She's not the one cheating on you - twice! Tell her about your second affair, I bet the decision will be taken out of your hands and then you can both move on to have happier lives!

[joanofark]

To an extent, I acknowledge the paradox. But the flowers/romance seems to me such an insincere expression of love/affection which gets acknowledged as the opposite. That makes me want to scream.

 

Just typing that, I realise it indicates something pretty huge.

 

you aren't happy. let both of you be happy. just get it over with. you obviously aren't willing to "work" for your marriage. it isn't a priority, but thats OK. nobody ever died because of divorce. although i could be wrong. a good marriage is both people working together to make it right, not one person feeling badly and making one person happy while the other is "screaming" to get out.

[beach]

No, you misunderstand me. Of course I know relationships take effort. My point is that marriage therapy just states the bleeding obvious. In terms of seeking clarity, I found it useless.

 

My second point? My wife *is* a good person. Her ethics, sense of right and wrong are impeccable. But she isn't on my wavelength. I can't communicate with her without using subtitles. She can also be incredibly tactless and not realise it. My attempts at intimacy, and sharing are either unrecognised as such, or just get trampled on. She gets severely anxious over relative trivia. I could go on and on, but I feel dirty even typing that much.

 

Of course you couldn't possibly be on the same wavelength - you state she has ethics and you don't.

 

You can't communicate well because you likely lie and cover up to avoid telling her your truth.

 

There is NO WAY to communicate with a person who lies.

 

So, I'd bet the communication problem is with you.

 

You seem like you don't like your wife - why not divorce her? She deserves better than what you've offered her.

[Crossroads66]

You can't fool yourself. You can lie to yourself (denial of your truth) - but deep down you know what is real.

 

That much pretending will make a person physically sick from betraying self.

 

Actually it did! I had two years of severe psychosomatic illnesses the first time when I was really churning all this over in my brain.

[Crossroads66]

Of course you couldn't possibly be on the same wavelength - you state she has ethics and you don't.

 

You can't communicate well because you likely lie and cover up to avoid telling her your truth.

 

There is NO WAY to communicate with a person who lies.

 

So, I'd bet the communication problem is with you.

 

You seem like you don't like your wife - why not divorce her? She deserves better than what you've offered her.

All largely true - although I hasten to add I was 100% faithful for 19 years before the lies started, and all that time I was banging my head against a brick wall in my attempts to communicate. I *do* have ethics - in that I certainly don't like what I've become and as how others have pointed out how I've chosen to (not) confront the issues.

 

The nail which you've hit on the head is true- I just don't don't like my wife. That makes me feel really guilty! Because, while she certainly has her faults, she is a very good person. So a scumbag like me *should* worship the very ground on which she walks. But I just don't.

[beach]

All largely true - although I hasten to add I was 100% faithful for 19 years before the lies started, and all that time I was banging my head against a brick wall in my attempts to communicate. I *do* have ethics - in that I certainly don't like what I've become and as how others have pointed out how I've chosen to (not) confront the issues.

 

The nail which you've hit on the head is true- I just don't don't like my wife. That makes me feel really guilty! Because, while she certainly has her faults, she is a very good person. So a scumbag like me *should* worship the very ground on which she walks. But I just don't.

 

So set her free so she can find someone who loves her the way she deserves.

[Crossroads66]

So set her free so she can find someone who loves her the way she deserves.

Yes - this is what she deserves. But she doesn't realize it. I know it has happen. It's all just so hard though.

[Mystery2Me]

Of course your wife does not realize she is better off with you....because you are lying and playing happy faimly.

 

Again please don't confuse her logical mourning of the loss of the fake family life you created with she actually will be devestated by life without the authentic you...the Cheater!!!

 

You are living a fantasty life...perhaps is you (not your wife) who is dependant on this family life. So much easier to blame your family...than to really grasp the bull by the horns really admit your life is still jacked-up becuase it is YOU not your family.

 

Stop making the wife and kids the scapegoat...time to show your cards.

[Crossroads66]

Okay the message I seem to be getting from here is "face facts, and take the pain; it's over". I get so close, then see stuff like this that basically says that unless there is constant open hostility and/or physical violence; it's better to stick a bad marriage out.

 

HowStuffWorks "Debunking 10 Divorce Myths"

[beach]

You're not the husband she THINKS you are - so you've made the M a farce.

 

That's why she will be happier in the long run.

 

Hurry - she's not getting any younger - she can find a new guy with integrity and morals next go around - one who effectively communicates with honesty.

[Crossroads66]

You're not the husband she THINKS you are - so you've made the M a farce.

 

That's why she will be happier in the long run.

 

Hurry - she's not getting any younger - she can find a new guy with integrity and morals next go around - one who effectively communicates with honesty.

Hang on a moment. I'm not here to receive "husband of the millenium", but I *do* have integrity and morals. While if refuse to detail all my wife's failings here (they're not relevant) suffice to say that there are very definitely two sides to this story. It was integrity that kept me in the marriage and faithful for 19 years.

 

I'm trying to put my own needs least here. My kids would want me at home. And so does my wife. Maybe carrying the burden of perpetuating the farce is my penance.

[beach]

Hang on a moment. I'm not here to receive "husband of the millenium", but I *do* have integrity and morals. While if refuse to detail all my wife's failings here (they're not relevant) suffice to say that there are very definitely two sides to this story. It was integrity that kept me in the marriage and faithful for 19 years.

 

I'm trying to put my own needs least here. My kids would want me at home. And so does my wife. Maybe carrying the burden of perpetuating the farce is my penance.

 

Make up your mind.

 

You don't love her. That's cruel to stay.

 

Yet you think you are a good person now - because you stay after you cheated - knowing full well you don't love her?

 

 

Just decide - then live with your decision.

 

But don't try and tell us you're a great husband/Dad when you stay and don't intend to love her.

 

It doesn't work both ways...no matter how much you dress it up or try to convince us otherwise = it's still cruel to HER.

[Crossroads66]

Make up your mind.

 

You don't love her. That's cruel to stay.

 

Yet you think you are a good person now - because you stay after you cheated - knowing full well you don't love her?

 

 

Just decide - then live with your decision.

 

But don't try and tell us you're a great husband/Dad when you stay and don't intend to love her.

 

It doesn't work both ways...no matter how much you dress it up or try to convince us otherwise = it's still cruel to HER.

I never suggested I am a great husband/Dad, nor that "I am a good person now". I'm simply trying to balance all the factors and work out what's best for *all* parties concerned. There will be pain, whatever path is chosen.

 

Thanks for all the responses; I do appreciate it even when it's tough to hear.

[beach]

I never suggested I am a great husband/Dad, nor that "I am a good person now". I'm simply trying to balance all the factors and work out what's best for *all* parties concerned. There will be pain, whatever path is chosen.

 

Thanks for all the responses; I do appreciate it even when it's tough to hear.

 

We weren't discussing whether or not you were a great husband or Dad.

 

Yet you changed the subject.

 

You don't love her - that's the bottom line here. And you've cheated on her twice!

 

She has spent her entire adult life with a man who didn't intend to marry her. That's just not right of you to do to her.

 

Why don't you divorce her so she has a chance in life with a man who will love, honor and adore her?

[Crossroads66]

We weren't discussing whether or not you were a great husband or Dad.

 

Yet you changed the subject.

 

You don't love her - that's the bottom line here. And you've cheated on her twice!

 

She has spent her entire adult life with a man who didn't intend to marry her. That's just not right of you to do to her.

 

Why don't you divorce her so she has a chance in life with a man who will love, honor and adore her?

I didn't change the subject at all - your previous post said "But don't try and tell us you're a great husband/Dad when you stay and don't intend to love her.", when I had tried to tell you no such thing.

 

I agree with your assertion She has spent her entire adult life with a man who didn't intend to marry her. That's just not right of you to do to her. I was 21, she asked me to marry her and I thought it would be churlish to refuse, never believing it would *actually* happen. Yes, I want to grab that 21 year old and shoot him.

 

But I don't agree that this necessarily means separation/divorce now is a no-brainer, particularly given there are three children involved. That's something I'll have to decide alone, and once again I'm very grateful for all the advice received.

[2sunny]

Why did you say you married at 23 then changed it to 21.

 

Fact remains - you said you don't love your wife.

 

So divorce so SHE can find the happiness SHE deserves!!!

 

What you want ended when you decided to cheat as a solution instead of being honest with your wife.

 

Believe me - she won't be devastated when she finds out you keep cheating.

[Crossroads66]

Why did you say you married at 23 then changed it to 21.

 

Fact remains - you said you don't love your wife.

 

So divorce so SHE can find the happiness SHE deserves!!!

 

What you want ended when you decided to cheat as a solution instead of being honest with your wife.

 

Believe me - she won't be devastated when she finds out you keep cheating.

I was engaged at 21, married at 23.

[SpiritualAlchemy]

Please give her the opportunity to make her own decision. Be honest with her just as you have been here. You owe her at least that. Forcing something that doesn't fit will bring misery to everyone.

[Michelle ma Belle]

Okay the message I seem to be getting from here is "face facts, and take the pain; it's over". I get so close, then see stuff like this that basically says that unless there is constant open hostility and/or physical violence; it's better to stick a bad marriage out.

 

HowStuffWorks "Debunking 10 Divorce Myths"

 

Well, here is another point of view that says that says staying in an unhappy marriage for the sake of the children ISN'T as good of an idea as you might think. Watch and listen;

 

Staying in a Dead Marriage for the Kids. | elephant journal

[MsOptimist]

Just wanted to give my input which largely involves personal experience.

 

I have not been in your shoes exactly, but my parents stayed together a LONG time "for the sake of the kids," and also financial reasons, and I can tell you first hand that it was a big mistake. My parents eventually divorced when I was 17.

 

Although we all played happy family fairly well to outsiders, both my brother and myself knew that my parents didn't have a great relationship with each other. Most importantly, they didn't SHOW us what a healthy marriage and relationship looked like - and that likely played a role in myself choosing the wrong life partner, as well as having under-developed communication skills, which then led to my own divorce. I'm not saying that it was my parents' fault for all of these things, but I do think that what went on in my childhood home largely shaped my own relationships.

 

I also saw that my parents were better off themselves when apart. I think we all breathed a sigh of relief when the tension lessened after their divorce.

 

Fast forward to my own divorce in my 30s. We did not have kids, but I was in your wife's position. Plodding along thinking that my marriage was ok or above average. I was very blind-sided by my ex-husband. Devastated and hurt beyond words, but I survived.

 

And here I am on the other side and I know without a doubt that my marriage was BAD and now I am HAPPY that I got the opportunity to move on and be with a much better match. Knowing myself better and making better decisions for myself, including choosing a better life partner. You and your wife can get to this point as well. It's amazing how your eyes open up and see things clearly after the dust settles.

 

Just this past weekend my boyfriend and I were enjoying a fabulous evening, snuggling on the couch after dinner with wine. He turned to me and said, "I never thought I'd say this, but I am SO HAPPY that I got divorced." He does have children, so he knows first hand how hard it is to uproot everyone's lives. It's not fun and it's not easy. Neither of us are advocates of breaking up families, but he is happy to have found a better match for himself and to be able to show his kids what a better and healthier relationship looks like.

 

When I read stories like yours I feel compelled to admit that sometimes divorce really is the best choice for everyone involved.

[JK321]

Crossroads66 - I just want to say that I feel pretty much exactly as you do and find it reassuring to be able to relate as such.

 

My circumstances are almost the same as yours except I don't have kids. But I still feel all this debilatating and ambivalent stuff. And it stops me from taking any positive action.

 

I think it really boils down to being "approval seeking" and feeling "guilty". Usually as a result of early family approval seeking messages and leftover guilt carried around from childhood memories.

 

Rather than accept and reinforce that this is just the way you are. These negative traits should be eliminated.

 

I like how you eloquently explain your thoughts - I can tell you are a deep and careful thinker.

[Crossroads66]

Thanks again for the replies.

 

I'm pretty convinced that confessing my latest affair is *not* the way to go. While honesty and openness are laudable things; so too is not creating hurt and that would seem to be the greater priority.

 

The question that remains, is can I now put both feet firmly in my marriage - never having truly done it in the first place? I doubt it. And if I do decide to leave, how do I do it? Do I arrange a place to live first? How do I handle all the second-guessing which would invariably take place?

Edited May 17, 2014 by Crossroads66

[beach]

Thanks again for the replies.

 

I'm pretty convinced that confessing my latest affair is *not* the way to go. While honesty and openness are laudable things; so too is not creating hurt and that would seem to be the greater priority.

 

The question that remains, is can I now put both feet firmly in my marriage - never having truly done it in the first place? I doubt it. And if I do decide to leave, how do I do it? Do I arrange a place to live first? How do I handle all the second-guessing which would invariably take place?

 

There's no use talking about any of it until YOU make the DECISION of what action you are going to take.

 

Your decision ignites the action to make sure things happen based on your decision.

 

No decision = just wasting time and energy "thinking about it".

[oldshirt]

I fundamentally can't respect her no matter how much I try and brainwash myself.

 

 

Then you are doing both her and yourself a disservice by staying. you are cheating her out of being with someone that will love her and respect her and you are forcing yourself to tolerating someone you don't really love or respect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

She is also emotionally unstable and our sex life has always been mediocre at best.

 

 

That is because her husband does not love, cherish or respect her.

 

In 2008 I had an affair. It dissolved, out of frustration because I stayed married.

 

 

so an illegitimate relationship that may have had some potential failed because you remained in a known bad marriage??

 

 

 

 

I confessed the relationship (largely because I wanted to use that as a tool to end the marriage) but my wife clung on,

 

 

She probably won't make that same mistake again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

and I did not want to be the guy who "wasn't prepared to give things a second go"

 

 

so ego made you stay because you didn't want the church ladies to tongue-click?

 

 

 

 

 

 

. I have tolerated my home life by wearing a mask of contentment, which is actually pretty transparent to everyone.

 

 

Probably more transparent than you are even realizing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The kids have witnessed more conflict than any kids should, and they have their own issues.

 

 

Then you know your current situation is causing your children harm and you are choosing to remain in it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

To top it all off, I am just coming out of my second extra-marital relationship, which seems to be ending in similar circumstances to the first.

 

 

So you didn't learn the first time?

 

 

 

 

 

 

This one remains unconfessed.

 

 

 

I'm putting my money on she already knows or just assumes.

 

 

 

 

 

I have zero doubt, that if we did not have kids, I would be out of there.

 

 

So you are holding them responsible for remaining in a failed marriage that is making all parties miserable.

 

 

 

 

But - we do have kids. Two teenage daughters and a 7 year old. So I need to be sure.

 

 

What evidence or signs or proof do you need to "be sure?"

 

 

 

 

I certainly do have feelings for my wife, but it's more in the form of a very familiar roommate rather than someone with whom I have a deep connection.

 

 

Does she want a roommate arraignment or does she want a full-service marriage with love, respect, intimacy etc etc?

 

Do you want a roommate arraignment or do you want a full-service relationship?

 

 

 

 

She will be utterly devastated if I go.

 

 

I really really think you need to seriously challenge that belief.!

If my math is accurate, when she found out about your first affair, she had one baby/toddler and two young children. Many mothers with children of that age would be willing to piss on a spark plug to keep the home intact and keep the roof over their heads and food on their table.

 

several years have passed. The youngest child is school age and does not need 24/7 hands on care to survive. the other two are sub-adults.

 

Yes a divorce will be change but if it were to be done amicably and fairly with due regard to child support and a fair division of marital assets and if it were to be done without mudslinging or attacking-counterattacking each other, no real harm will be done.

 

It is true that children of all ages will do best in an intact home with two loving, devoted parents that love each other, treat each other well and are devoted to taking good care of the children.

 

You already do NOT have that loving relationship with each other. Both of you may be devoted to taking good care of the children and both may be good parents but you can do that from two separate homes.

 

Divorce does not need to involve hate and fights and hurting each other. Many divorces can be quite civil and compassionate.

 

Women are often quite reactive to how their mates feel about them and they aren't easily fooled. She likely feels about you how you feel about her. You are trying to put on a façade, so she probably is too. Her façade will fool you more than your façade will fool her so you only think she still loves and respects and wants to remain married to you.

 

Her mother instincts forced her to try to remain an intact family in 2008 and forced her into counseling and to "try." Her rational brain may very well override that maternal instinct in 2014 now that the kids are all older and more independent.

 

She may be quite agreeable to an amicable, fair and equitable divorce today.

 

 

 

Help!

 

 

OK so here is my recommendation. Don't say anything to her yet but start consulting a lawyer and financial advisor. Go into it with an expressed objective of an amicable and fair divorce that is fair and reasonable for both of you. work with them to come up with a game plan that is as reasonable and sane as possible and get as good of an idea as to what a post-divorce life will look like for all of you as possible.

 

Have the papers drawn up but don't file yet.

 

Then set up a meeting with your wife without kids present and as calmly and compassionately as possible, tell her that you know that neither of you are very happy in this marriage and that you have been working with a lawyer and financial advisor to come up with as fair and reasonable plan as possible and inform her what a post-divorce life could look like for both of you.

 

Then give her time to let it soak in and time to consult her own attorney and time to respond where she doesn't feel like her back is being forced against the wall and doesn't have to fight an immediate threat.

 

I think if you were to give her the option of an amicable and fair divorce, she would take it.

 

 

I'm not sure your most recent affair is even all that relevant here. She'll probably ask but she may take the divorce even without it. If she did know about it, it probably would be the final nails in the coffin.

 

 

 

 

Responses in bold above.

Edited May 17, 2014 by oldshirt