A simple question for WS

[atreides]

A BH here.

 

One question that nags me to this day, 13 years after Dday, is WHY my WW chose to stay with me?

 

She has a long term affair. It was romantic. She and her OM professed true love for each other. They felt their relationship was a real one, not just a part time thing where they only saw the best sides of each other.

 

Let me stop you right there.... you are accepting a false premise. I know the OW/OM board is filled with "it was love", "it was real" blah blah blah...

 

Of course feelings are real but it is not love nor should the association be made... your WW's feelings did not have to endure the day to day, the mundane, the little annoying things that come with a relationship based on love. Affairs, are called "cheating" for two reasons, they cheat the BS and they cheat the WS. We all know the cheat the BS has in the result of an A but many ignore the WS cheating themselves out of what they know to be true and blindly telling themselves over and over that "no not me" "it was real love" , "that i could not leave my spouse for x,y& z reason" and so on. (no matter stories told, isn't it funny that it is never bad enough to leave and start a new love relationship)

 

Short of your WW actually having the day to day of what really tests what love is, she had a long vacation with someone else.

 

As for your question, i don't want answer it... quite simply because it implies you did something wrong or right. NO, affairs are all about the WS and nothing else. Only they can answer the why and to them it will only make sense. It takes a lot of soul searching for them and eventually as with others here on LS, they may find that answer but many even years later do not.

Edited May 13, 2014 by atreides

[LearningToMoveOn]

LearningToMoveOn...how are you? OUR stories are so similiar and I have not heard from you or seen you posting in OM/OW for a while. But, it appears from your posings on here you are still in NC...kudos to you on doing so incredibly well!

 

Thanks Mickey. I've been doing pretty well lately. Definitely still NC and plan to remain that way. Hope you are doing well too. I've been hoping that since you haven't been posting as often, that you've been healing and feeling better (though I know it's a very slow process).

 

Apologies for the t/j.

[Mickey1982]

Thanks Mickey. I've been doing pretty well lately. Definitely still NC and plan to remain that way. Hope you are doing well too. I've been hoping that since you haven't been posting as often, that you've been healing and feeling better (though I know it's a very slow process).

 

Apologies for the t/j.

 

Apologies as well for the t/j.......little better, but VERY VERY slow. I had to stay away for a little while beacuse of some of the comments. Just wish I'd get THERE!!!!

[LearningToMoveOn]

Apologies as well for the t/j.......little better, but VERY VERY slow. I had to stay away for a little while beacuse of some of the comments. Just wish I'd get THERE!!!!

 

You WILL get there. It's just going to take a lot of time and patience with yourself. I feel like it's one step forward, two steps back a lot of the time for me but we are both slowly making progress. I see it. Hang in there!

[Charlie Harper]

The go back because they don't want to put up with all the turmoil a divorce brings. Even if its an A not based on GIGS, and its long and filled with true ove ( not just sex or validation), the leaving A partner, can't or won't go through a D and then have social problems as a home wrecker...etc...kids the list goes on.

 

Pity because most of the time you return to a loveless life and live for the sake of others happiness, in the end that won't give you all the confort you need.

[Mickey1982]

the go back because they don't want to put up with all the turmoil a divorce brings. Even if its an a not based on gigs, and its long and filled with true ove ( not just sex or validation), the leaving a partner, can't or won't go through a d and then have social problems as a home wrecker...etc...kids the list goes on.

 

Pity because most of the time you return to a loveless life and live for the sake of others happiness, in the end that won't give you all the confort you need.

 

 

sooooooooooo very true.

[Mickey1982]

Let me stop you right there.... you are accepting a false premise. I know the OW/OM board is filled with "it was love", "it was real" blah blah blah...

 

Of course feelings are real but it is not love nor should the association be made... your WW's feelings did not have to endure the day to day, the mundane, the little annoying things that come with a relationship based on love. Affairs, are called "cheating" for two reasons, they cheat the BS and they cheat the WS. We all know the cheat the BS has in the result of an A but many ignore the WS cheating themselves out of what they know to be true and blindly telling themselves over and over that "no not me" "it was real love" , "that i could not leave my spouse for x,y& z reason" and so on. (no matter stories told, isn't it funny that it is never bad enough to leave and start a new love relationship)

 

Short of your WW actually having the day to day of what really tests what love is, she had a long vacation with someone else.

 

As for your question, i don't want answer it... quite simply because it implies you did something wrong or right. NO, affairs are all about the WS and nothing else. Only they can answer the why and to them it will only make sense. It takes a lot of soul searching for them and eventually as with others here on LS, they may find that answer but many even years later do not.

 

 

IF "Only they can answer", how do you know it was NOT love???? How can you ever know for sure what is in the heart of the APs????

[waterwoman]

Because she never intended to leave perhaps - maybe that was never on the cards. It wasn't for my H, they had even discussed it apparently and come to the conclusion it wouldn't happen. This was what prompted OW to 'end' the relationship about a week before dday. He was quite shocked when the first thing I asked him was 'When are you leaving then?'

 

In the end people do what they do because the positives of doing one thing outweigh the positives of doing the other I suppose.

[anne1707]

The go back because they don't want to put up with all the turmoil a divorce brings. Even if its an A not based on GIGS, and its long and filled with true ove ( not just sex or validation), the leaving A partner, can't or won't go through a D and then have social problems as a home wrecker...etc...kids the list goes on.

 

Pity because most of the time you return to a loveless life and live for the sake of others happiness, in the end that won't give you all the confort you need.

 

This may be the case for some but it is far from applicable to all as I know very well.

[snappytomcat]

The go back because they don't want to put up with all the turmoil a divorce brings. Even if its an A not based on GIGS, and its long and filled with true ove ( not just sex or validation), the leaving A partner, can't or won't go through a D and then have social problems as a home wrecker...etc...kids the list goes on.

 

Pity because most of the time you return to a loveless life and live for the sake of others happiness, in the end that won't give you all the confort you need.

maybe some go back to a loveless M,but not all do,and if the M is so horrible,why do most beg to stay on dday?

I know my husband didn't come back to a loveless M,cause we always had a loving M,he just had something wrong inside him that hes going to ic for,but our M,wasnt perfect but it wasn't horrible

[not-so-sure]

A BH here.

 

One question that nags me to this day, 13 years after Dday, is WHY my WW chose to stay with me?

 

She has a long term affair. It was romantic. She and her OM professed true love for each other. They felt their relationship was a real one, not just a part time thing where they only saw the best sides of each other.

 

Then something happened. I dont know what. But my WW dropped her OM like a hot coal. She thought her LTA would be a deal breaker and thought I would D her. She was surprised when I wanted to R.

 

So for those of you who were in a LTA. A true LONG term affair. There must have been feeling involved for each other. So why arent you with your OP?

 

If you loved your OP why did you decide to stay with your BS?

 

You will get no flaming or hurt feelings from me. All I want is the truth. Even if its painful.

 

thanx

 

I was at least clever enough to realise that the affair was where we both showed our best parts to each other. There is truth to those statements about bills and kids and holidays and not being in the bubble. We spoke about those things and her posturing was that it could be something to be managed, but the way she spoke about that gave me the idea we would be putting our relationship on hold on a week on/week off basis.

 

That said, I spent more time with her on a daily basis than I did with my wife during the affair. So we did get a good sense of our positives and negatives. Unbelievable.

 

Why did I stay? A good part of it was that I was able to see the bubble for what it was. I am still struggling with feelings a year down the track - they don't stop me from participating as much as I can in life and being productive. From an emotional point of view, though, I can say that even though the feelings I had with the MOW were within narrow confines I never had that rush with my wife. My wife and I had a slow burn thing. There are a lot of other things about that which will only sound like excuses and revisionism so I will leave those unsaid.

 

I can't fault my wife. She's an amazing person and I do love her, despite my choices. We don't do a lot of conflict, but when we do, we don't do it that well to be honest. All in all, the household demeanour is actually pretty good for our children. She is a wonderful life partner. I just have to get back there. I'm getting better but I still have a long way to go.

 

Also kids. The idea I would spend half my time away from them was difficult to comprehend even when the affair ended, but is impossible to contemplate now.

[atreides]

The go back because they don't want to put up with all the turmoil a divorce brings. Even if its an A not based on GIGS, and its long and filled with true ove ( not just sex or validation), the leaving A partner, can't or won't go through a D and then have social problems as a home wrecker...etc...kids the list goes on.

 

In trying to answer the OP's questions in relation to the above quote, Very few A's are based on GIG (like from arranged or very abusive Ms that i have seen), for GIG to be true, the WS would not split the time between M or AP as neither is greener by that action. Only leaving because truly it is greener would GIG apply.

 

As for "true love" this is in part what i meant by the WS also "cheating" themselves. Many will argue there are "many forms of love" or "i can love more than one" but for the context of a marriage or commitment, it is like saying, "i respect everyone" when in fact by saying so have set the respect for no one, such a tragedy for "true love." They cheat themselves out of what they wanted in the first place by having the A and then try to convince themselves that "while it was wrong of me to do" that it "felt so right, because i had real feelings" as if to say in one context or another, by being genuine made it right and themselves less of a "fool" if you will; because, after all, to look in the mirror and see it for what it is, is much more difficult. But at the same time, why we all make "fools" of ourselves, it is only a temporary identity crisis and we should grow stronger from it, that is if the lesson is learned.

 

Then there is this "it was not just about sex" I never understand this. Why is sex so downplayed and vilified? IT is the highest form of intimacy and attention a person can give. I read these statements about, "we had so much in common" and "he or she said the right things" as if that form of flattery supersedes sexual attention? Please, I would say to those WS's to own up to it.

 

Finally about "home-wrecker" social context, I would whole heatedly disagree as that presumes there would be no fallout from the A itself even before D is considered and is exactly in line with the thinking that further exacerbates the cheat upon the WS in cheating themselves. As if to say the social backlash if it even exists in most circles for the A in of itself coming to light has no social consequence. But, most of all which is so sad about that statement, it is based in whole in what the WS wants and further omits anything the BS could weigh in on.

 

Pity because most of the time you return to a loveless life and live for the sake of others happiness, in the end that won't give you all the confort you need.

 

Well said without the context and assumption that it is indeed "loveless" I would say most time not, but you make the point very well that the A for the context you wrote cheats the WS just as much.

Edited May 14, 2014 by atreides

[atreides]

IF "Only they can answer", how do you know it was NOT love???? How can you ever know for sure what is in the heart of the APs????

 

"If only they can answer" is solely for the context of "why" the A instates to exclude reasons that so many try to put on the BS. In that only the WS can solve that question, it is their burden to soul search the most.

 

As it pertains to the OP, and I know how hard you are working on you which is great as we have chatted before.

 

But knowing "true love" whether it be the AP or WS, the love was never strong enough to leave or build, it was "time-shared" Feelings are real but that does not mean that because the WS or AP "feel" that it equates to "true love"

Let me phrase it this way, what would be wrong with saying you felt so loved and such intimacy, that everything clicked from an AP partner who was not necessarily in it for a committed relationship, but a sexually shared and enjoyable relationship vs having to say "it was love?" Why is one regarded higher than the other for the context of an A? Does it even matter for the context of staying with the BS to make the delineation?

 

Love endures the whole of life, not just the vacation part. To the OP, that is in part why they go back, vacation by definition is not permanent. Nothing ever is in an A by its own definition, it can't be. The AP never has to meet the same qualifications as the M partner, just enough to meet specific perceived "wants" from the WS. To think if the WS started from scratch without an M, can the same "vetting" if any is ever done in an A be assumed? I think not.

Edited May 14, 2014 by atreides

[Charlie Harper]

I am going to make some more comment on what I wrote, because not all situations are equal, but some patterns emerge and those need to be covered.

 

While its true that some people have A and then a D day and have some form of counseling, couple work or simply forgiveness, and they can go on till death , it the case of the glued up broken vase, still in one piece but its never what it was. You can cook it anyway you like it but in practice is very seldom that people turn the page for good, the specter of cheating or the A is linger as a shadow.

 

Most people have A because of sex, but some of the WORST kind of A happen because there is emotional attachment, I would even go further and say that an Emotional A is worse than a casual fling with sex... some A are based on friendship / understanding and real feelings of making a "team" a "couple" and then comes the sex or intimacy, that rounds up the A but sometimes sex is not the reason, the bonding, in fact its the culmination of the emotional A.

 

But then What?

 

You are in love with someone else for a long time you know his/her flaws, good things, etc, and you have to make a choice Divorce and go through the BIG TURMOIL specially if there is family involved, Money, financial security, losing your house, cars, you name it and on top of that be scolded by friends, family etc... some people just can't do it, they give up and then they break up having a super big depression afterwards, less desire than ever, but routine, kids, schools, and such make life bearable .... but you know you went back to Mr. boring, Ms Ice cold or whatever.

 

In the end that kills you I have seen it with patients that masturbate their minds to accept the fact that it was the good choice, even when their heart and every cell in their bodies tell them otherwise.

 

The saddest thing is that sometime in the distant future (think over 60) when push comes to shove, those people won't make sacrifices for the Husband or wife because they are already disconnected, because they are not in love, they are just affectionate or accustomed to somebody....

 

This only applies to long term A...short ones are different (but can be as destructive)

[anne1707]

I am going to make some more comment on what I wrote, because not all situations are equal, but some patterns emerge and those need to be covered.

 

While its true that some people have A and then a D day and have some form of counseling, couple work or simply forgiveness, and they can go on till death , it the case of the glued up broken vase, still in one piece but its never what it was. You can cook it anyway you like it but in practice is very seldom that people turn the page for good, the specter of cheating or the A is linger as a shadow.

 

Most people have A because of sex, but some of the WORST kind of A happen because there is emotional attachment, I would even go further and say that an Emotional A is worse than a casual fling with sex... some A are based on friendship / understanding and real feelings of making a "team" a "couple" and then comes the sex or intimacy, that rounds up the A but sometimes sex is not the reason, the bonding, in fact its the culmination of the emotional A.

 

But then What?

 

You are in love with someone else for a long time you know his/her flaws, good things, etc, and you have to make a choice Divorce and go through the BIG TURMOIL specially if there is family involved, Money, financial security, losing your house, cars, you name it and on top of that be scolded by friends, family etc... some people just can't do it, they give up and then they break up having a super big depression afterwards, less desire than ever, but routine, kids, schools, and such make life bearable .... but you know you went back to Mr. boring, Ms Ice cold or whatever.

 

In the end that kills you I have seen it with patients that masturbate their minds to accept the fact that it was the good choice, even when their heart and every cell in their bodies tell them otherwise.

 

The saddest thing is that sometime in the distant future (think over 60) when push comes to shove, those people won't make sacrifices for the Husband or wife because they are already disconnected, because they are not in love, they are just affectionate or accustomed to somebody....

 

This only applies to long term A...short ones are different (but can be as destructive)

 

I did not stay with my H for kids,Money or house etc. I stayed because I loved him. I do not regret that for a single day because I still love him and we are good together. The marriage is not the same as it was before the affair. That's the whole point of reconciliation - it has to be different because of the way you learn from the past and how you put more into the marriage so as a result the marriage is better than it was. Again your post to clarify just relates to specific affairs.

[LearningToMoveOn]

I did not stay with my H for kids,Money or house etc. I stayed because I loved him. I do not regret that for a single day because I still love him and we are good together. The marriage is not the same as it was before the affair. That's the whole point of reconciliation - it has to be different because of the way you learn from the past and how you put more into the marriage so as a result the marriage is better than it was. Again your post to clarify just relates to specific affairs.

 

So, none of those other things were a consideration? You stayed purely because of the love you had for your husband? Your kids futures and well-being weren't a concern? Or the huge social and financial mess that could have followed? This is a genuine question so I hope it's coming across that way. It sounds like in your situation, your love for your spouse was the one and only reason you stayed and I think that's great and exactly how it should be. I think the point that some people are trying to make is that often, all of those other things (kids, house, societal pressures) play a big role in the decision.

 

I think that in some cases if the slate were clean so to speak, and the WS was "choosing" between the AP and the BS and there were absolutely no negative ramifications to that choice, the WS would choose the AP. As with anything in life, timing is everything. If you've already committed to and built a life with someone else, it's very difficult to undo all of that and start over. I'm certainly not saying that WS don't love their BSs and that's part of the reason they choose to stay (who would want to stay in a miserable M) but I think there is often a lot more than that to consider. I know BSs don't like to feel like they are the fallback option and want to believe their WS stayed only because of their love for them but absent the ability to wipe that slate clean, I don't think you can ever really know the true motivation in some cases.

 

I think some people look at the sum of the parts. Would I be happier staying with my BS when the marriage is pretty good and we have built a life together and have children to raise or throw all of that away and risk it all and start over, even if I have a stronger connection and love for someone else? I'm sure this isn't true in all cases as I've said but I know this was how xAP and I viewed it when we discussed it and made our decisions.

[Fluttershy]

Of course there are WS who would choose the AP. some actually do an regret it, some do and only regret the path they took, and some do and have no remorse for the damage they caused along te way.

 

And some simply had no plan to leave in the first place.

[veritas lux mea]

I have no kids, my home is worth far more than my remaining mortgage and I make the same as my husband. We both could sell our place which is designed for a family and purchase a smaller home each and be comfortable. We do not need each other to raise kids or for our finances. The only reason we are still together is because we love each other and want to grow old together.

[LearningToMoveOn]

I absolutely agree. Every situation is different and it depends on many, many factors...the length of the A, the state of the M, whether there are kids involved or not etc. I'm just stating what I found to be the case in my situation.

[anne1707]

I have no kids, my home is worth far more than my remaining mortgage and I make the same as my husband. We both could sell our place which is designed for a family and purchase a smaller home each and be comfortable. We do not need each other to raise kids or for our finances. The only reason we are still together is because we love each other and want to grow old together.

 

Pretty similar here. No kids. I earn more than my husband, the exOM earned more than me so financially I would have actually been better off with him () than with my husband. I could also afford a decent place on my own. So the only reason I stayed is because of love.

[Furious]

So, none of those other things were a consideration? You stayed purely because of the love you had for your husband? Your kids futures and well-being weren't a concern? Or the huge social and financial mess that could have followed? This is a genuine question so I hope it's coming across that way. It sounds like in your situation, your love for your spouse was the one and only reason you stayed and I think that's great and exactly how it should be. I think the point that some people are trying to make is that often, all of those other things (kids, house, societal pressures) play a big role in the decision.

 

I think that in some cases if the slate were clean so to speak, and the WS was "choosing" between the AP and the BS and there were absolutely no negative ramifications to that choice, the WS would choose the AP. As with anything in life, timing is everything. If you've already committed to and built a life with someone else, it's very difficult to undo all of that and start over. I'm certainly not saying that WS don't love their BSs and that's part of the reason they choose to stay (who would want to stay in a miserable M) but I think there is often a lot more than that to consider. I know BSs don't like to feel like they are the fallback option and want to believe their WS stayed only because of their love for them but absent the ability to wipe that slate clean, I don't think you can ever really know the true motivation in some cases.

 

I think some people look at the sum of the parts. Would I be happier staying with my BS when the marriage is pretty good and we have built a life together and have children to raise or throw all of that away and risk it all and start over, even if I have a stronger connection and love for someone else? I'm sure this isn't true in all cases as I've said but I know this was how xAP and I viewed it when we discussed it and made our decisions.

 

 

 

^^^^^this is why on my d-day I handed my husband his suitcase and wished him well.

 

This type of WS justifying, not only traps a betrayed spouse in an unauthentic and intimate relationship but is duped by a WS who is still pining for someone else.

 

Also this type of justication keeps an OW from moving on to heathy relationship with someone who can love and be there for them in the real world.

 

LTMO....does your wife know this is how you feel, if not , you're being cruel to her reality? If she were to read what you've posted would you be comfortable with her reading this?

[Charlie Harper]

I guess it boils down to being honest and decide... neither way is better or worse is simply choices, I know tons of people who have stayed with an abusive partner, just because financial security, also Men who are "home" because starting again at 45 and loosing a lot of your financial assets, is not an option.

 

In fact a lot of undiscovered A the WS goes back home and do not take the leap into D, they go back and say they did it for love or family or financial reasons, those people suffer the most since there is no discovery Day and they have to bury the feelings for a failed A and settle for the "confort zone".

 

If someone reconnects after an A kudos!, but most of the time it doesn't happen that way because if you had a BIG A the feelings and the situations make you disconnect from your S...

 

bottom line Divorce is no picnic...

[Furious]

I guess it boils down to being honest and decide... neither way is better or worse is simply choices, I know tons of people who have stayed with an abusive partner, just because financial security, also Men who are "home" because starting again at 45 and loosing a lot of your financial assets, is not an option.

 

In fact a lot of undiscovered A the WS goes back home and do not take the leap into D, they go back and say they did it for love or family or financial reasons, those people suffer the most since there is no discovery Day and they have to bury the feelings for a failed A and settle for the "confort zone".

 

If someone reconnects after an A kudos!, but most of the time it doesn't happen that way because if you had a BIG A the feelings and the situations make you disconnect from your S...

 

bottom line Divorce is no picnic...

 

..........never mind.

[LearningToMoveOn]

^^^^^this is why on my d-day I handed my husband his suitcase and wished him well.

 

This type of WS justifying, not only traps a betrayed spouse in an unauthentic and intimate relationship but is duped by a WS who is still pining for someone else.

 

Also this type of justication keeps an OW from moving on to heathy relationship with someone who can love and be there for them in the real world.

 

LTMO....does your wife know this is how you feel, if not , you're being cruel to her reality? If she were to read what you've posted would you be comfortable with her reading this?

 

Yes, my H knows I had very deep feelings for my xAP and I wasn't sure if I wanted to stay in the M or not at that time. I was very honest about how conflicted I was. He strongly considered leaving the M as well but ultimately decided to stay because of our kids and because he loved me. Just as I ultimately decided to stay because of our kids and because I loved him. I'm not sure how that means I'm tricking him or forcing him to live in an unauthentic relationship. I don't pine for my xAP. We're both where we need to be. But that doesn't mean that I won't always care about him and hope that he is happy.

 

If my H had handed me my suitcase and wished me well, that wouldn't have changed anything. That wouldn't have somehow meant that I was staying for him and him alone and not for other reasons as well. I'm not truly "free" to leave in that sense, regardless of whether he wished me well, wouldn't have fought me on it, etc. There would still have been a huge cost to leave my M. I have children to consider as well as a long history with my H including our friends and family. That doesn't mean I don't love my H but a lot of things factored into what I was thinking at the time. That's just the reality for me. Obviously every situation is different.

[Furious]

Yes, my H knows I had very deep feelings for my xAP and I wasn't sure if I wanted to stay in the M or not at that time. I was very honest about how conflicted I was. He strongly considered leaving the M as well but ultimately decided to stay because of our kids and because he loved me. Just as I ultimately decided to stay because of our kids and because I loved him. I'm not sure how that means I'm tricking him or forcing him to live in an unauthentic relationship. I don't pine for my xAP. We're both where we need to be. But that doesn't mean that I won't always care about him and hope that he is happy.

 

If my H had handed me my suitcase and wished me well, that wouldn't have changed anything. That wouldn't have somehow meant that I was staying for him and him alone and not for other reasons as well. I'm not truly "free" to leave in that sense, regardless of whether he wished me well, wouldn't have fought me on it, etc. There would still have been a huge cost to leave my M. I have children to consider as well as a long history with my H including our friends and family. That doesn't mean I don't love my H but a lot of things factored into what I was thinking at the time. That's just the reality for me. Obviously every situation is different.

 

 

Oh...I'm sorry...I had thought you were a male poster.

 

I get the impression you and your husband did not experience a-day. You were vague about this, saying he knew you had feelings for the OM but that's not saying he knows it was a physical and emotional affair.

 

You sound like someone who is freshly broken off with your OM, was it a mutual decision, or did your OM experience a d-day?