Actually, the OW does owe me something....

[Hope Shimmers]

I understand your point, however I am of the mindset that what someone does/feels about an apology I give is not for me to determine nor is it the point of an apology. An apology is something that I owe for my actions/words not what another deserves.

 

I agree with you completely.

[Fluttershy]

I understand your point, however I am of the mindset that what someone does/feels about an apology I give is not for me to determine nor is it the point of an apology. An apology is something that I owe for my actions/words not what another deserves.

 

This.

 

If a person Truly regrets the damage and hurt they caused an apology is in order. And when someone is truly sorry, has no selfish agenda over it (expectif a certain outcome) but wants to do the only thing they can buy saying I'm sorry, what I did was shtty, it doesn't matter if it is recieved. They did what was right. The person wronged may never accept it or may take a while to get to a plave it matters to them but that is on them and doesn't weigh in on whether you say sorry or not.

 

It is simple and the right thing to do. Unfortunatly we as humans justify our actions and often do not truly feel remorse. And we also do things that we even know are wrong and hurtful.

 

Whether OW. wS BS or average joe. I have a lot of respect for a person who owns their crap and shows true remorse for it and works at changing their behaviour.

[troubadour]

What can any of us expect from the AP?

 

This was a question I asked myself during an entire year. What can I say to the AP? What does he owe me.

 

And in the end, I realised he owes me nothing. He has already taken, and lost. But for months I was nagged by something that needed to be said. And so finally, on the anniversary of year one, I finally heard what it was I needed to do. I sent the AP an email. And in that email, as you have done above, I spoke about human dignity. I spoke of his contribution to the affair, I spoke of his contribution to the pain and suffering he was complicit with in so many people, families, friends. And I spoke of his indignity in participating in a pathetic game in which there was never going to be a resolution for anyone, and they both knew that from go. I spoke of his indignity in having sexual relations with another man's wife, knowing she continued to share a bed at night. I spoke of the indignity of his behaviour as a professional, as a educated professor in a faculty of education where his role was to shape the minds of young aspiring teachers and the incredible duplicity, the incredible hypocrisy of his actions in terms of his career. And I reminded him that as BS who lost his own spouse to an AP that his complete non hesitation to enter into this game with my wife was, above all, a repugnant disgrace to the year of pain he passed through with his own WS. To demean his own suffering by doing the very same to others, to more, to the family of a co-worker, this made him a pathetic and unworthy person.

 

But above all, I realised, that while I could not ask anything of him that he had not already taken that was impossible to return, I asked that he never again, when faced with an opportunity, regardless of how attractive, or intelligent, or how flattering or how seductive she is, to think twice about the enormous pain and suffering he is going to cause the families and friends of the women he chooses to pursue. I asked him to think about turning her down. I asked him to behave, next time, with dignity.

 

There is nothing we can do to change people, there is nothing we can do to stop people from doing what they do, the best we can do is to ask them to change themselves, and to learn about themselves knowing that they are not innocent or without responsibility.

 

 

Fellini, have you exposed the affair? I can guess that you haven't.

 

Although, I agree with what you have said above but your email had accomplished absolutely nothing. It's very unlikely that it was the first rodeo for him and he probably just had a good laught reading it. If you aren't ready to get in OM' face, don't send him any messages. It makes you look even weaker than you really are. Sad but true.

[fellini]

I read this several times and I have no idea what your paragraphs about social community and workplace abuse of privileges have to do with this topic at all. Sorry.

 

It has everything to do with your evaluation of the role of the AP (OW or OM).

 

While it is true that the AP is "outside" the marriage, and his/her direct affect on the privacy of the marriage is LESS than the WS, the role the AP plays in the destruction of the public aspect of the affair: the connections between the AP, workplace, BS, WS, best friends, colleagues, other spouses of workplace and nonparticipating workers can be quite devastating.

 

An AP who contributes to his own affair, for example in the workplace, (or in a close community, or within a school community or within a church community) can have massive effects on the social life, the feeling of safety, the moral, and the general lives of those who come into contact with the affair (and those before it and those who worry about who is next etc).

 

The AP contributes to a toxic workplace. Regardless of whether a couple decides to D or to R, this toxicity is maintained by the fears, by the sordid interest in knowing the details etc. by those who know about it and keep it alive at the water cooler.

 

What goes on between a BS and a WS in the home, more or less can stay in the home, but an infidelity CAN become a beast, a huge issue in work places and the AP shares that load.

[fellini]

Fellini, have you exposed the affair? I can guess that you haven't.

 

Although, I agree with what you have said above but your email had accomplished absolutely nothing. It's very unlikely that it was the first rodeo for him and he probably just had a good laught reading it. If you aren't ready to get in OM' face, don't send him any messages. It makes you look even weaker than you really are. Sad but true.

 

To expose the affair publicly would mean to expose my WS. She has no choice but work in this environment until she retires at the age of 67. The nature of her work means that exposing this affair might do damage to her ability to work, to obtain research money (ability to find a good research team), her classes, her students, obtain graduate students who want to work with her, etc. etc. We might be able to send a robot to mars, but women are still held morally responsible for infidelities, especially if the AP was a single man.

 

That said, as I indicated, three female colleagues have been informed that there was an affair, and these are among three of his best "friends" in the university. What they decide to do about him is their business, but they understand perfectly that the AP is NOT to be welcomed into any social situation (coffee, dinner, conferences, field trips, meetings, talks, committees, gatherings around the water cooler etc.) in which my WS is already committed to being involved in.)

 

I know for a fact this was his first LTR since he divorced his WS who left him for her AP. What we don't know is if his WS had a revenge affair or if it was as much a shock for him and it was for me. Either way, he knew what he was doing. I know who this AP is, it is a small Faculty in a small university, and easily 70% of the people in the faculty have a relationship with me because of my marriage. I know this man to be highly regarded by most of the people who work around him. HE is not just some joker who got off on another man's wife, he is a professor who allowed my wife to seduce him into having an affair. They both knew it was going to end badly - they said that to each other on several occasions , not just for the marriage, but potentially for the workplace. (See my previous post about toxic workplaces).

 

It seems to me that in a professional or very social workplace, that when it comes to infidelity, the attempt is to get the marriages to end. The only solution that can possibly save face is for the two affair partners to end up together "proving" that they were actually meant for each other. Otherwise it needs to END silently or it will taint the relations among everyone for years.

 

So my email was probably received differently than you imagine. At no point did I imagine, nor do I still, that this man is laughing. This man tried to steal my wife, he knows it, I know it, and most of what I have said to him is that he behaved with no dignity in his role in the affair. This man was in love with my wife. By asking him not turn down married woman, I am telling him that if I hear about another workplace relationship, I have things to say.

[cocorico]

I have to disagree cocorico that just because we don't know someone we owe them nothing and that respect is earned. Civil societies are built on the notion of mutual respect.

 

While true egalitarian societies - if there are any left - might be based on mutual respect, "modern" capitalist societies are based on the exploitation of labour by capital, which is premised on the most fundamental disrespect. But even if one were to accept that within "their" society, the social contract was underlaid with respect, it would still remain a factor pertaining only to *that* society. Outsiders are not party to the same rules of engagement - millennia of warfare, colonisation, imperialism etc prove this again and again. People can be civil and respectful to those they consider part of their in-group, but they do not extend that to those they other. So it's not as simplistic as "I don't know her, so I owe her nothing"; more like "I don't recognise any commonalities that would place her into any group to whom I owe loyalties as opposed to those out groups who exist to provide resources for my ingroup". She was one of "them", not one of "us".

[cocorico]

So she deserved to be cheated on? Not to have been divorced or given decency? She deserved to be humiliated and you wer te one to doll out her punishment? And who made you judge and jury and God..someone who can make the decision whether or not to make sure a person suffers?

 

She "deserved" to be treated according to the values that she broadcast herself as holding - isn't that the golden rule? Treat others as they wish to be treated? So if you state consistently that marital fidelity is stupid, that M exploits women, etc and have a history of cheating yourself, laughing at hose,who chose to be faithful, as well as of encouraging and facilitating the infidelity of your friends, others would assume that marital fidelity meant nothing to you, and that you would be quite OK with you receiving the same treatment you were happy to dish out to others. In which case yes, she "deserved" to "be cheated on", since those were the values she claimed to espouse.

 

Humiliated? That she did herself. After decades of humiliating others, it was inevitable that she would end up humiliating herself. And no, it was not me "dolling" it out, it was her own actions that led to her humiliation.

 

She certainly did deserve to be divorced, which is why she recede that, too.

[peaksandvalleys]

I don't know if this is referring to me or not, but since you said 'ballpark' I'm guessing you are referring to my post.

 

I have no idea why you would think I (or anyone) said that a single person isn't doing a crappy thing by having an affair. It seems lots of words are being put into my mouth in this thread. What I said was that the single person didn't break marital vows (or commitments or promises or whatever word you like) to a spouse, and if everything that all of you are saying is true about how important those are to a marriage, the breaking of those should be a much bigger deal to the BS than the "crappy" AP.

 

 

 

Shouldn't the BS get to decide what the bigger deal is to them?

[peaksandvalleys]

My post was not about you peaksandvalleys, it was just in general how I feel about it, more in reply to a couple of other posts in the thread. Of course you get to decide. I never said that you didn't, and I in fact agree with you. She owed you an apology (at least).

 

 

 

It is the ballpark remark and in denial remark that I found offensive. Not whether she owed me(generally) an apology. Personally, the OW and ex showed me that some people are just scum and no amount of apologizing would do a thing for them or me. They also showed me that taking what I consider my power back dismissed any need for an apology.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

To expose the affair publicly would mean to expose my WS. She has no choice but work in this environment until she retires at the age of 67. The nature of her work means that exposing this affair might do damage to her ability to work, to obtain research money (ability to find a good research team), her classes, her students, obtain graduate students who want to work with her, etc. etc. We might be able to send a robot to mars, but women are still held morally responsible for infidelities, especially if the AP was a single man.

 

That said, as I indicated, three female colleagues have been informed that there was an affair, and these are among three of his best "friends" in the university. What they decide to do about him is their business, but they understand perfectly that the AP is NOT to be welcomed into any social situation (coffee, dinner, conferences, field trips, meetings, talks, committees, gatherings around the water cooler etc.) in which my WS is already committed to being involved in.)

 

I know for a fact this was his first LTR since he divorced his WS who left him for her AP. What we don't know is if his WS had a revenge affair or if it was as much a shock for him and it was for me. Either way, he knew what he was doing. I know who this AP is, it is a small Faculty in a small university, and easily 70% of the people in the faculty have a relationship with me because of my marriage. I know this man to be highly regarded by most of the people who work around him. HE is not just some joker who got off on another man's wife, he is a professor who allowed my wife to seduce him into having an affair. They both knew it was going to end badly - they said that to each other on several occasions , not just for the marriage, but potentially for the workplace. (See my previous post about toxic workplaces).

 

It seems to me that in a professional or very social workplace, that when it comes to infidelity, the attempt is to get the marriages to end. The only solution that can possibly save face is for the two affair partners to end up together "proving" that they were actually meant for each other. Otherwise it needs to END silently or it will taint the relations among everyone for years.

 

So my email was probably received differently than you imagine. At no point did I imagine, nor do I still, that this man is laughing. This man tried to steal my wife, he knows it, I know it, and most of what I have said to him is that he behaved with no dignity in his role in the affair. This man was in love with my wife. By asking him not turn down married woman, I am telling him that if I hear about another workplace relationship, I have things to say.

 

Thank you for sharing this Fellini. There is no question affairs are far reaching. Mine was very public and exposed in a big way. It did not in any way help in our recovery - it in fact delayed it. And I always maintain (even though my husband had his own choices) because of the way it was handled and the way my family was pretty much thrown to the streets it left my husband vulnerable to an affair because he had absolutely no support. So he did have an affair. His affair was kept quiet because I wasted to handle things differently than mine was. She was an employee and she had to leave her job and friends that she loved (my demand). But I see my husband and he lives every day with the possibility of it coming out. Xmow's husband does not know nor does anyone in the workplace as she sometimes stops in just to "see the girls".

 

Although my situation could have been handled much differently (and should have been), there is value to having it out - I have nothing to hide.

Edited May 11, 2014 by lilmisscantbewrong

[Hope Shimmers]

It has everything to do with your evaluation of the role of the AP (OW or OM).

 

Actually fellini, it has absolutely nothing to do with my evaluation of the role of the AP.

 

The thing is, I believe you want to think this is how I believe, simply because you know I am an ex-OW, but that doesn't make it so.

 

While it is true that the AP is "outside" the marriage, and his/her direct affect on the privacy of the marriage is LESS than the WS, the role the AP plays in the destruction of the public aspect of the affair: the connections between the AP, workplace, BS, WS, best friends, colleagues, other spouses of workplace and nonparticipating workers can be quite devastating.

 

An AP who contributes to his own affair, for example in the workplace, (or in a close community, or within a school community or within a church community) can have massive effects on the social life, the feeling of safety, the moral, and the general lives of those who come into contact with the affair (and those before it and those who worry about who is next etc).

 

The AP contributes to a toxic workplace. Regardless of whether a couple decides to D or to R, this toxicity is maintained by the fears, by the sordid interest in knowing the details etc. by those who know about it and keep it alive at the water cooler.

 

What goes on between a BS and a WS in the home, more or less can stay in the home, but an infidelity CAN become a beast, a huge issue in work places and the AP shares that load.

 

I don't disagree with any of this (nor did I the first time you posted it). I might state it in fewer words... such as "Affairs have very negative impact to social/community relations and those of the workplace". But other than that, to me it's a no-brainer. My point - which I believe is what I stated in my post - is that I didn't see how it had anything to do with the topic, which is that in my opinion (emphasis on the 'in my opinion' part) betraying a marital commitment is far worse than any other betrayal or destruction that an affair causes.

 

Anyway, it's just my opinion and I didn't state it to inflame you, which it clearly did. My apologies for triggering you. It's really not something to bicker over I don't think, because affairs pretty much destroy everyone.

[cocorico]

It has everything to do with your evaluation of the role of the AP (OW or OM).

 

While it is true that the AP is "outside" the marriage, and his/her direct affect on the privacy of the marriage is LESS than the WS, the role the AP plays in the destruction of the public aspect of the affair: the connections between the AP, workplace, BS, WS, best friends, colleagues, other spouses of workplace and nonparticipating workers can be quite devastating.

 

An AP who contributes to his own affair, for example in the workplace, (or in a close community, or within a school community or within a church community) can have massive effects on the social life, the feeling of safety, the moral, and the general lives of those who come into contact with the affair (and those before it and those who worry about who is next etc).

 

The AP contributes to a toxic workplace. Regardless of whether a couple decides to D or to R, this toxicity is maintained by the fears, by the sordid interest in knowing the details etc. by those who know about it and keep it alive at the water cooler.

 

What goes on between a BS and a WS in the home, more or less can stay in the home, but an infidelity CAN become a beast, a huge issue in work places and the AP shares that load.

 

I think this depends very much on the organisational culture of the workplace. In some sectors As are common, are normalised and accepted, and the only rules governing them concern power - e.g. Rs between staff and students, or between managers and line-staff, are embargoed, whether or not any of the parties are M, because the assumption is that consent cannot be freely given when one party holds the power to determine another's future. For the rest, romantic Rs (whether either party is committed elsewhere or not) are treated as any other kind of R, be they commercial, contractual, platonic, social etc, in that they need to be disclosed to the lowest common line manager lest interpersonal politics influence decision-making (especially important in academia where governance is by committee). So the "responsibility" of the AP is no different to the responsibility of a tenant working in the same organisation as their landlord, or the HS xGF whose HS xBF turns up applying for a post - to disclose the R to their manager.

[Hope Shimmers]

Shouldn't the BS get to decide what the bigger deal is to them?

 

Of course; that's why it was just my opinion and why I said the word "should". But based on everything I have read on this forum, what I have learned is that this is in fact the bigger deal. Just saying it like I see it.

[Hope Shimmers]

It is the ballpark remark and in denial remark that I found offensive. Not whether she owed me(generally) an apology. Personally, the OW and ex showed me that some people are just scum and no amount of apologizing would do a thing for them or me. They also showed me that taking what I consider my power back dismissed any need for an apology.

 

I never meant to offend you. I sincerely apologize.

[fellini]

Actually fellini, it has absolutely nothing to do with my evaluation of the role of the AP.

 

The thing is, I believe you want to think this is how I believe, simply because you know I am an ex-OW, but that doesn't make it so.

 

Actually I have never looked at your profile, I have no idea where you come from, and I am the last person anyone here is going to accuse of judging a person based on whether they are a BS, WS, AP or whatever.

 

I responded, as is the point of the forum, to what you said, not making any assumptions about what perspective might have led you to say it.

 

This discussion focuses on the role of the AP and the damage. My point has been to spell out what I have seen as the damage the AP is able to do in a workplace environment. I disagree with weighing in the AP against the WS, because, as I have shown, I believe the damages they cause can be catastrophic in each of their respective environments. As a BS whose WS has to spend the next 15 years working in the same toxic environment as her AP, I can assure you that the AP continues to harm our relationship merely by continuing to EXIST.

 

If tomorrow he died in a car crash I would feel NOTHING but RELIEF.

[fellini]

I think I am talking more about responsible, as in the extent of the blame, not some contractual understandings in a work culture. In any work culture there are the established (or not) guidelines, and there are the transgressions.

 

This is pretty much the equivalent of a marriage: There are "vows" or understandings, and then, there are the transgressions.

 

I think people tend to focus ONLY on the impact of an A in terms of the privacy of the marriage, and clearly there is a lot to say about how it promotes/increases/creates or otherwise contaminates the work culture environment.

 

Of course it doesn't always happen, but surely people are beginning to become more aware of this as the number of workplace affairs is increasing at a rate much higher than domestic / private affairs (between friends, for example)

 

 

I think this depends very much on the organisational culture of the workplace. In some sectors As are common, are normalised and accepted, and the only rules governing them concern power - e.g. Rs between staff and students, or between managers and line-staff, are embargoed, whether or not any of the parties are M, because the assumption is that consent cannot be freely given when one party holds the power to determine another's future. For the rest, romantic Rs (whether either party is committed elsewhere or not) are treated as any other kind of R, be they commercial, contractual, platonic, social etc, in that they need to be disclosed to the lowest common line manager lest interpersonal politics influence decision-making (especially important in academia where governance is by committee). So the "responsibility" of the AP is no different to the responsibility of a tenant working in the same organisation as their landlord, or the HS xGF whose HS xBF turns up applying for a post - to disclose the R to their manager.

[tornapart2002]

I want to commenton this because I think I misread some of what you were trying to say. I do think you seem like a troll, at times, but I also think that during part of this you meant well. I wanted to read over this again after you reported me for my last comment about you being a troll. I think you do mean to encourage in some ways so for that I thank you. I don't think you have some of my facts straight in your comments, but you aren't in my "real life" so to speak, and can't see what's really been going on and happening, so you have to base it on what I wrote. That's understandable. Thanks for trying to bring what you felt needed to be brought into the conversation and take care. And no, I am not writing that in a sarcastic tone!

 

 

Its sad ,but true. We are really on our own.

 

 

 

 

It far more easier isn't it? To hate on some woman instead of focusing on the facts. The partnership you have with your spouse has been breached by your spouse, ONLY. It simply can't be. Sadly it is and that is the fact twice that you know about now. Facts are good they lead to correct answers and paths for OUR ...INDIVIDUAL life paths. Sure there are good eggs out there that will stop things, alert people, walk away or tell, or not give a damn and engage, such are the flavors of people and circumstances. Figure out your circumstance and put yourself on a path for YOU!

 

 

 

It is not your problem. Your problem is a cheater for a husband.

 

 

 

 

In a perfect world, alot of things would and would not happen. Then there is reality and YOUR life. Of course no one deserves to be cut off in traffic, but it happens, no one deserves to have a tornato land on their house but it happens, no one deserves to be victimized, but it happens (sigh). It is how you react, and doing the same thing over expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. Experiences, even the most painful ones, can help our soul's grow.

 

 

 

Okay, I read this alot. Personally I disagree to an extent. Being dumped just plan sucks, 1 year, 5 years, pregnant (with twins), 20 years....15-85 being heartbroken is never pleasant. It hurts. Being cheated on is a betrayl, being dumped because you just didn't cut it, well that hurts like swallowing razors too. There is no Gold metal in the pain olympics. Don't compete.

 

Accept your hand and play, because life has alot of good too. Much more if you let that cheater fend for themselves.

 

My 0.2

[Hope Shimmers]

Actually I have never looked at your profile, I have no idea where you come from, and I am the last person anyone here is going to accuse of judging a person based on whether they are a BS, WS, AP or whatever.

 

I responded, as is the point of the forum, to what you said, not making any assumptions about what perspective might have led you to say it.

 

This discussion focuses on the role of the AP and the damage. My point has been to spell out what I have seen as the damage the AP is able to do in a workplace environment. I disagree with weighing in the AP against the WS, because, as I have shown, I believe the damages they cause can be catastrophic in each of their respective environments. As a BS whose WS has to spend the next 15 years working in the same toxic environment as her AP, I can assure you that the AP continues to harm our relationship merely by continuing to EXIST.

 

If tomorrow he died in a car crash I would feel NOTHING but RELIEF.

 

My situation didn't impact the workplace or social/community lives so it's not something that has a big impact on me personally.

 

I've read several of your posts and my opinion is that your wife needs to quit her job, however difficult that may be (yes I get that she teaches/does research at a university - so did I, and there are other jobs out there even if you have to switch careers). You don't seem to be healing and as long as she works with this man then I don't think you ever will.

[tornapart2002]

I don't know your full situation so I am not sure where you are coming from, but I was trying to say all people deserve respect (well..not Hitler or Stalin types..heh) and you deserve respect by not stooping to her level, I guess? I don't know, but I'm gonig to go read over your original comment again so I can see what I may have misinterpreted. sounds like you were involved in a crappy situation all around there.Sorry you had to be caught up in that.

 

She "deserved" to be treated according to the values that she broadcast herself as holding - isn't that the golden rule? Treat others as they wish to be treated? So if you state consistently that marital fidelity is stupid, that M exploits women, etc and have a history of cheating yourself, laughing at hose,who chose to be faithful, as well as of encouraging and facilitating the infidelity of your friends, others would assume that marital fidelity meant nothing to you, and that you would be quite OK with you receiving the same treatment you were happy to dish out to others. In which case yes, she "deserved" to "be cheated on", since those were the values she claimed to espouse.

 

Humiliated? That she did herself. After decades of humiliating others, it was inevitable that she would end up humiliating herself. And no, it was not me "dolling" it out, it was her own actions that led to her humiliation.

 

She certainly did deserve to be divorced, which is why she recede that, too.

[fellini]

My situation didn't impact the workplace or social/community lives so it's not something that has a big impact on me personally.

 

I've read several of your posts and my opinion is that your wife needs to quit her job, however difficult that may be (yes I get that she teaches/does research at a university - so did I, and there are other jobs out there even if you have to switch careers). You don't seem to be healing and as long as she works with this man then I don't think you ever will.

 

In a country where the unemployment rate is 26%, and tenure means you are tied to that job, no, there are no alternatives. There are no other jobs.

 

I don't think it's about healing. It's about knowing that nothing good in the marriage was good enough to stop her from being with this man. Right now I know she wants no part of him. But a single man who is going nowhere either and a partner who can throw a marriage under the bus as fast as she can throw her AP later, under the bus is, ultimately, an unknowable quantity for me.

[tornapart2002]

I know you mean well. I just felt bad if you had had to report me. I was pretty dang snotty. So maybe a moderator just caught me then. Ha. either way it was warranted. I need to listen more and run my mouth less when I get upset. This is a forum ripe for misunderstandings, though, with emotions running so high.The moderators do a good job reminding us to watch ourselves!

 

I did not report you. I laughed, actually. I commented alot in '07 then took a long break until age, wisdom and experience caught up with me. DANG! Being gone so long made me forget how fresh some pain can be. It is a common defence mechnism to lash out at advice. Hey take it or leave it, sort of thing, you know?

 

I do post with a pitchfork, but it is gilded is kindness.

[underpants]

I know you mean well. I just felt bad if you had had to report me. I was pretty dang snotty. So maybe a moderator just caught me then. Ha. either way it was warranted. I need to listen more and run my mouth less when I get upset. This is a forum ripe for misunderstandings, though, with emotions running so high.The moderators do a good job reminding us to watch ourselves!

 

Hugs, you will get through this.

[cocorico]

I do post with a pitchfork, but it is gilded in kindness.

 

This is true.

 

(That is off topic - apologies.)

[beatcuff]

... To hate on some woman instead of focusing on the facts. The partnership you have with your spouse has been breached by your spouse, ONLY...

 

you are deflecting your energy in the wrong direction.

 

AP owes you NOTHING. she was not party to the M. AP did not take your WS from you. what the AP did is nothing more than provide an opportunity. WS took it. WS fault not AP.

 

i love all this society 'stuff': a/k/a once i claim my property no one else can touch UNLESS i decide.

 

reality is long-term relationships can never compete with lust. M gets harder every year. it takes work. with all these countless stories (on this board) --- the real truth is there were issues in M that were ignored or not seen or the full magnitude was not understood.

 

My 0.2

 

inflation? i think you meant 0.02 Or 2 cents (not twenty).

[cozycottagelg]

you are deflecting your energy in the wrong direction.

 

AP owes you NOTHING. she was not party to the M. AP did not take your WS from you. what the AP did is nothing more than provide an opportunity. WS took it. WS fault not AP.

 

 

I tend to agree with this. If it wasn't that AP, it would have been a different one. But I say that as someone who hasn't dealt with this first hand.