Actually, the OW does owe me something....

[notserene]

well, we all hurt other people all the time. It is just that in some situations it is seen as legitimate.

 

Would you *always* give money to a stranger who claimed they needed it? Would you turn down an offer for your dream job if you found out another candidate was in a financial crisis and needed the job more than you? Would you leave your boy/girlfriend if you found out that someone else also was interested?

 

I think it is clear that people will inevitably be in competition and conflict with each other. It is therefore inevitable that some people will come out on top, and other people will get hurt. So, I just don't think it is black and white that people getting hurt is always morally wrong.

 

In relation to the infidelity, its a similar situation. If the WS is really in love with the OM/OW, should they remain forever attached in a miserable relationship with the BS? If the OM/OW genuinely loves the BS, why should then not try to be happy with them?

 

The problem I have with infidelity is that it is so dishonest and it betrays the trust of the WS/BS. If the BS wants to be with someone else - fine. But then they should leave before anything happens and just be honest about it. Unfortunately, that rarely happens.

 

Yes, the problem with affairs is that the betrayed spouse doesn't usually figure out that there is a competition going on until it's already underway.

 

There are honorable ways to end a relationship. People do it every day.

[tornapart2002]

Thank you! In a heated moment during a fight my husband told me our marriage was over before he ever had his affair. I told him he should hve let me know that first! Because he sure as hell let her know it when he jumped into bed with her!

 

And if that was his way of telling me he was a pussy and a coward.

 

Yes, the problem with affairs is that the betrayed spouse doesn't usually figure out that there is a competition going on until it's already underway.

 

There are honorable ways to end a relationship. People do it every day.

[cocorico]

So it would be OK for us here to have no respect for you whatsoever? Because you participated in an act that many people, BS's or not, find abhorrent.

 

Does that sound good to you?

 

It certainly sounds fair. I have no problem with people exercising their judgment just as I exercise mine.

 

I don't expect anyone here to respect me - though I do expect them to abide by the Community Guidelines of posting with "civility and respect" that they agreed to when they signed up.

[whichwayisup]

I had hired a PI when I suspected something. I learned more about her than my husband even knew.

 

I had no interest in an apology from her. A few weeks after my d-day I made the agonizing decsion to contact her husband, and sent him proof.

 

Ironically, she called me, and was angry and said I had no right to interfere in her life.

 

Yeah, she owed me nothing, as I owed her nothing.

 

Hypocritical, that she could sleep with my husband but it was wrong for me to give her husband the truth.

 

That's really f'ed up. Speechless here.

[tornapart2002]

I am just about to stand an applaud this. AMEN!

 

It's what I was trying to say and you said it perfectly!!!!

 

I think the OW/OM definately does owe the BS an apology for their actions in the affair. I think people do owe other human beings basic decency and basic respect. For the same reason a person doesn't go around throwing rocks at people's cars or go around punching people, out of respect for the rights of others, they shouldn't go around trying to damage/destroy a person's marriage/family. Of course, the latter would be much more harmful, but the point being that people do owe others basic respect and not to harm others or their families. The OW/OM may have not made a vow of fidelity, but they are certainly causing the WS to break his vow. Their actions are harming an unsuspecting person and their family, and for that, they are certainly accountable and should be held accountable. They owed the BS basic decency and respect, and instead caused great harm to the BS and her/his family.

[Fluttershy]

It is the self entitled attitude of caring only for your own and showing respect to only your own why such terrible things happen in the world. From mind boggeling acts to walking past another human being in trouble without helping. There is a difference between making choices that others may not agree with and deliberatly setting out to do something that is so utterly harmful and damaging to another human being.

 

And then you have those that gloat about doin so and een talk of a society that applauds such behaviour or finds it romantic (gag). All I can say is I am gla I am a part of a community that doesn't think being involved with a marrie person is even slightlu cruel or wrong. Unethical or immoral.

 

You don't have to want to stone or shun those that behave so poorly. But neither do you need to condone or encourage it.

[James-London]

What you say implies that a person who is perfectly happy and in love with their partner is equally likely to cheat as a person who is miserable. This cannot be true. Sure - being unhappy in a relationship is not enough on its own: the cheater has to be emotionally/morally messed up too. But being unhappy with the partner is a big factor.

 

People usually cheat because they feel there is something missing in their relationships. The OM/OW is not usually a better partner overall than the BS but they are meeting the needs of what the BS is not providing.

 

Many people who cheat still want to stay with their BS. If they did not, they would simply leave for the OM/OW or just be single. People stay because they still love their BS, or perhaps because it is not practical to leave.

 

As I have said above - people can always meet someone else and fall in love with them. So, there is nothing wrong with meeting someone else while you are married and falling for them. That's just life. Many people marry more than one person in their lives. However, if that happens, we should just leave our partner in favour of the OM/OW. We should not be jumping into bed with other people while in a committed relationship with someone else.

 

I guess there is always the risk of our partner meeting someone else and leaving us for them. Or worse - cheating before leaving us. However, I do think it is much less likely to happen when the WS is happy and secure in their relationship. In these cases, the WS would not usually have a roving eye and be considering other people.

 

 

Infidelity is rarely a marital problem. It's a personal problem with the wayward.

 

So of course they don't leave first. It isn't about the marriage.

 

( for reference, check Glass, Pittman, Fisher)

 

As for the rest of your comments, we view the world very differently. And that's okay. I will never ever do anything on purpose that involves the deceit of another human being. Being more qualified for a job is not even in the same league as the harmful things I was speaking about before, but I would suspect you know that.

[fellini]

People usually cheat because they feel there is something missing in their relationships. The OM/OW is not usually a better partner overall than the BS but they are meeting the needs of what the BS is not providing.

 

Many people who cheat still want to stay with their BS. If they did not, they would simply leave for the OM/OW or just be single. People stay because they still love their BS, or perhaps because it is not practical to leave.

 

I've enjoyed your posts so far, because I think you have a nuanced understanding of infidelity. IN this post I think you are giving away too much generalisations.

 

I don't think there is any need to discuss whether the marriage is good or bad. I think even those kinds of categories DO NOT HOLD WATER. Yes, there are some really sh--y marriages. But the trend is clear:

• really good marriages are now suffering infidelities
  
• really good people in two relationships just don't have the balls or know how to end their marriages (i.e. do the right thing)
  
• Needs are a very fuzzy thing. As soon as a potential EA enters into the scene, it's not that needs are no longer being met, it is more often the case that needs are no longer being petitioned. LATER the WS talks about "you didn't meet my needs", but an honest assessment is that "I withdrew from our bank and deposited in another"
  

 

I do not believe that people CHEAT BECAUSE something is missing. We are ALL missing something in our lives - be it financial security, a child, free-time, more oral sex, less farting in the bed, better job, less arguing, more foreplay, less football... it just is not possible to really talk about what is missing because people generally do that evaluation AFTER they have been caught and are looking for "false" causes. It's true people can feel a "void" about something in their marriage, but I doubt those voids alone can explain an affair

 

But it's also true that the expectation that a marriage will solve all one's needs is a serious imposition on a couple. It's just not going to happen.

 

I think that for many normal people affairs, as you indicated in an earlier post, creep up on people. For that reason I also agree with the perspective that the AP has something to do with this.

 

IN my own situation the AP is the central issue, not the "need" to cheat. My wife did NOT go out looking to cheat. It's not like she would have cheated "on someone else". She cheated because she found this guy irresistible, she fell for his undivided attention, flattery and companionship, and he essentially fell for her smile, her feeding back his attention, and that he spent too much time thinking about her breasts to let her flirtations pass.

 

She cheated with the guy she WANTED, not with "just anyone".

[HermioneG]

What you say implies that a person who is perfectly happy and in love with their partner is equally likely to cheat as a person who is miserable. This cannot be true. Sure - being unhappy in a relationship is not enough on its own: the cheater has to be emotionally/morally messed up too. But being unhappy with the partner is a big factor.

 

People usually cheat because they feel there is something missing in their relationships. The OM/OW is not usually a better partner overall than the BS but they are meeting the needs of what the BS is not providing.

 

Many people who cheat still want to stay with their BS. If they did not, they would simply leave for the OM/OW or just be single. People stay because they still love their BS, or perhaps because it is not practical to leave.

 

As I have said above - people can always meet someone else and fall in love with them. So, there is nothing wrong with meeting someone else while you are married and falling for them. That's just life. Many people marry more than one person in their lives. However, if that happens, we should just leave our partner in favour of the OM/OW. We should not be jumping into bed with other people while in a committed relationship with someone else.

 

I guess there is always the risk of our partner meeting someone else and leaving us for them. Or worse - cheating before leaving us. However, I do think it is much less likely to happen when the WS is happy and secure in their relationship. In these cases, the WS would not usually have a roving eye and be considering other people.

 

I wish that you were correct.

 

It would certainly be very assuring to think that we have that kind of power over other people and can control their actions by being a kind and loving partner.

 

Did you know that the overbenefitted partner ( the one one who gives less) to th relationship is actually more likely to be wayward?

 

Infidelity is a personal problem, not a marital problem. The needs theory is one presented by a therapist who is known for placing the blame of infidelity on the only person who has no say in the affair, the betrayed. I give it no credence, and thankfully, the research into infidelity backs that position that it is not a marital issue.

 

I highly suggest you do some reading on the topic, and you'll learn that people don't control other people's bad decisions. A happy marriage is not an inoculation againt bad choices, and that no human being has the power to make someone else change.

 

As previously stated, start with Shirley Glass, Frank Pittman, Helen Fisher and John Gottman. You'll quickly learn the mechanics of why people actually cheat. It's eye opening.

[cocorico]

I think people do owe other human beings basic decency and basic respect. For the same reason a person doesn't go around throwing rocks at people's cars or go around punching people, out of respect for the rights of others, they shouldn't go around trying to damage/destroy a person's marriage/family.

 

Because those (bolded) things are against the law? apart from a handful of religious fundamentalist places! infidelity is not against the law, so that reason doesn't hold.

 

Nor, I'd wager, do most people who engage in As "go around trying to damage / destroy" someone else's M. That is neither their intent nor aim - their aim is to enjoy their R. Any damage or destruction to anyone else's M is mere collateral damage.

[notserene]

Because those (bolded) things are against the law? apart from a handful of religious fundamentalist places! infidelity is not against the law, so that reason doesn't hold.

 

While adultery/infidelity may no longer be technically illegal, it is regarded as morally repugnant by the vast majority of people, even (I would guess) by most of those who engage in it. Atheists disapprove of it at nearly the same rate as the God fearing folks.

 

The disapproval obviously stems from the dishonesty involved, not the sex or love involved. I don't get open relationships or polyamory, but the participants know where they stand.

 

People don't like or respect backstabbers. The "other person" is just as much of a backstabber as the cheating spouse IMO. I think the "accessory to a crime" analogy is an apt one.

[purplesorrow]

Because those (bolded) things are against the law? apart from a handful of religious fundamentalist places! infidelity is not against the law, so that reason doesn't hold.

 

Nor, I'd wager, do most people who engage in As "go around trying to damage / destroy" someone else's M. That is neither their intent nor aim - their aim is to enjoy their R. Any damage or destruction to anyone else's M is mere collateral damage.

 

Any adult engaged in an affair know they are causing harm. They wouldn't go through such great lengths to keep it a secret if they didn't. Collateral damage is damage to things that are incidental to the intended target. So if my family, my daughter and I are the incidentals. I can only assume that my WH and his ow were the intended targets. They did a fine job of destroying themselves. Me and my daughter are being rebuilt beautifully.

[James-London]

Hermione,

I do not appreciate your suggestion that I go out and "do some reading on the topic". My view is as valuable as yours or anyone else on here. We are all here trying to find some understanding from an awful experience; we are not here to be belittled.

 

With respect, I do not believe you have correctly represented my views, and this may be why we do not agree.

 

I was simply saying that people who are unhappy in their relationships are more likely to cheat. Nothing more than that. I was NOT SAYING it was the fault of the BS that the wayward is unhappy. And even if the BS was not pulling their weight in the relationship that is still no excuse for cheating.

 

You say that no happy marriage is an inoculation against cheating. I know that. That is what I was already saying in my previous posts. I am simply saying that people who are happy in their relationships are less likely to cheat.

 

You are free to disagree with anything and everything I say, but it would be more productive if you carefully read what I say first before suggesting I go off and "do some research".

 

 

I wish that you were correct.

 

It would certainly be very assuring to think that we have that kind of power over other people and can control their actions by being a kind and loving partner.

 

Did you know that the overbenefitted partner ( the one one who gives less) to th relationship is actually more likely to be wayward?

 

Infidelity is a personal problem, not a marital problem. The needs theory is one presented by a therapist who is known for placing the blame of infidelity on the only person who has no say in the affair, the betrayed. I give it no credence, and thankfully, the research into infidelity backs that position that it is not a marital issue.

 

I highly suggest you do some reading on the topic, and you'll learn that people don't control other people's bad decisions. A happy marriage is not an inoculation againt bad choices, and that no human being has the power to make someone else change.

 

As previously stated, start with Shirley Glass, Frank Pittman, Helen Fisher and John Gottman. You'll quickly learn the mechanics of why people actually cheat. It's eye opening.

[gettingstronger]

apart from a handful of religious fundamentalist places! infidelity is not against the law, so that reason doesn't hold.

 

 

There are still adultery laws here in CO as well as 22 other states

(not sure if the link violates the guidelines-its for a newspaper-if its redacted-google it for yourselves)

 

Mass. among 23 states where adultery is a crime, but rarely prosecuted - Nation - The Boston Globe

[BHsigh]

It certainly sounds fair. I have no problem with people exercising their judgment just as I exercise mine.

 

I don't expect anyone here to respect me - though I do expect them to abide by the Community Guidelines of posting with "civility and respect" that they agreed to when they signed up.

 

Hey, more pwer to you then, at least you're fair in that regard.

 

I however respect everyone until such a time as their actions cause them to lose that respect. I respect you as a person and would never do anything to you or your family with such a silly excuse as "I don't know you" or "I didn't make vows to you". This is true even though I find your past action abhorrent.

 

The fastest way for people to lose respect is by not respecting others, as that is the basis of respect in itself.

[HermioneG]

Hermione,

I do not appreciate your suggestion that I go out and "do some reading on the topic". My view is as valuable as yours or anyone else on here. We are all here trying to find some understanding from an awful experience; we are not here to be belittled.

 

With respect, I do not believe you have correctly represented my views, and this may be why we do not agree.

 

I was simply saying that people who are unhappy in their relationships are more likely to cheat. Nothing more than that. I was NOT SAYING it was the fault of the BS that the wayward is unhappy. And even if the BS was not pulling their weight in the relationship that is still no excuse for cheating.

 

You say that no happy marriage is an inoculation against cheating. I know that. That is what I was already saying in my previous posts. I am simply saying that people who are happy in their relationships are less likely to cheat.

 

You are free to disagree with anything and everything I say, but it would be more productive if you carefully read what I say first before suggesting I go off and "do some research".

 

I wish you well.

 

I'll not respond further to you. I have had zero misunderstanding of your position. On a public debate forum, there will be differing viewpoints, and suggestions made. You have made several statements that are not borne out by research and psychology. On the assumption that a varied amount of people read these threads and exchanges, it seems wise to offer the resources the corroborate statements made regarding these issues.

 

I meant no offense, only discourse. I am sorry you took offense to that. I'll leave you be now.

[James-London]

Thanks for your post Fellini.

 

What you said has helped me re-evaluate my own experience. It is interesting what you said about how "needs are no longer being petitioned". This is exactly what happened to me. It was certainly not a case of me not doing enough for her. The reality is that she got really excited by this other guy and got swept along when he gave her attention. She did not cheat with anyone else. She was nuts about this guy and that is the guy she wanted.

 

She did not seem to see the OM as a viable option as he was very independent and did not want to have a serious relationship with her. But then, I guess that lack of control made the OM all the more attractive. She loved the feeling of safety and security I gave her, but I don't think she really took me that seriously.

 

As you say, these claims about being unhappy with me are just after the fact justifications. If she really was unhappy, she could have taken steps to improve the situation. The reality is that she was just "having some fun" with another guy she found irresistable, and she never dreamed she would get caught. She didn't want to leave me and she didn't want me to get hurt. But at the same time she was happy to keep the other guy in the background and she was not really serious about developing our relationship further. It seems I was just the "safe and secure" guy.

 

As you say, needs are fuzzy things. Often the WS does not really know why they cheat, so it is even more confusing for the BS to try and work it all out. i guess there are lots of different reasons why people cheat. Some people are just nasty and have no respect for others. Others are really insecure or have other personal issues. Other times, a reasonably well adjusted person can end up meeting the OM/OW and falling for them. I'm sure it happens all the time.... I do think the quality of the relationship is relevant though. If the WS's needs are not being met in the relationship, they will likely start looking around.

 

In most cases, I think people will cheat for a variety of all the above reasons. Once it happens, I guess all you can do is try to forgive or walk away. In my case, my ex could not take proper responsibility for what she did (she could not even tell me the truth about it). She could not fight for me as I have heard other WSs doing in the stories on this forum.... So, the decision for me was, while very painful, fairly straight ford.

 

 

I've enjoyed your posts so far, because I think you have a nuanced understanding of infidelity. IN this post I think you are giving away too much generalisations.

 

I don't think there is any need to discuss whether the marriage is good or bad. I think even those kinds of categories DO NOT HOLD WATER. Yes, there are some really sh--y marriages. But the trend is clear:

• really good marriages are now suffering infidelities
  
• really good people in two relationships just don't have the balls or know how to end their marriages (i.e. do the right thing)
  
• Needs are a very fuzzy thing. As soon as a potential EA enters into the scene, it's not that needs are no longer being met, it is more often the case that needs are no longer being petitioned. LATER the WS talks about "you didn't meet my needs", but an honest assessment is that "I withdrew from our bank and deposited in another"
  

 

I do not believe that people CHEAT BECAUSE something is missing. We are ALL missing something in our lives - be it financial security, a child, free-time, more oral sex, less farting in the bed, better job, less arguing, more foreplay, less football... it just is not possible to really talk about what is missing because people generally do that evaluation AFTER they have been caught and are looking for "false" causes. It's true people can feel a "void" about something in their marriage, but I doubt those voids alone can explain an affair

 

But it's also true that the expectation that a marriage will solve all one's needs is a serious imposition on a couple. It's just not going to happen.

 

I think that for many normal people affairs, as you indicated in an earlier post, creep up on people. For that reason I also agree with the perspective that the AP has something to do with this.

 

IN my own situation the AP is the central issue, not the "need" to cheat. My wife did NOT go out looking to cheat. It's not like she would have cheated "on someone else". She cheated because she found this guy irresistible, she fell for his undivided attention, flattery and companionship, and he essentially fell for her smile, her feeding back his attention, and that he spent too much time thinking about her breasts to let her flirtations pass.

 

She cheated with the guy she WANTED, not with "just anyone".

[fellini]

Yes, I agree. It's true, of course, that a wayward can point to bad things in the marriage that "justifies" their thinking they are entitled to an A. I'm sure you are right that when a marriage isn't great, it increases the chances of one partner being vulnerable (I would use this word over "seeking" definitely) to connecting with a co-worker or "friend" more so than if they were happy. This is I think without an debate. As humans, when something in our lives is not going the way we think it should, our emotions are unstable and we are more vulnerable to positive feelings we might get from those we even have known and felt nothing, but suddenly.... feel them in a different light.

 

But I have also witnessed how a wandering wife can suddenly repaint the canvas of her marriage in order to explain what she knows is completely inexplicable: doing what neither she nor the 10 closest people to her could imagine, and step out of the marriage for a little fun.

 

And I think in these kinds of cases the "reasons" are like you say, impossible to nail down, because as the infatuation (with its own logic of "I know my limits) turns to EA ("this guy seems to really understand me") to PA ("I need the intimacy of sex to complement this incredible feeling Im getting") becomes a LTR ("I'm not giving this guy up for anything") I think the "reasons" are going to change through the entire process.

 

One thing is for certain though: before anything was even "cooking" my wife was hiding this guy from me from the beginning. 1.5 years of hiding. I knew about this "guy" but he was always on the peripheral. Of course when she told me on DDay she was "seeing someone" (funny way to talk about another man to your husband, like you were a teenager talking to your dad) I knew instantly who it was. Everything suddenly made sense.

 

In my case she was pretty much at this point shifting into exit affair, and I pretty much think she was expecting me to do the BS job of divorce for her. (Proving of course that the AP was perfect for her and that she wasn't doing anything wrong, just the way she went about doing it). But it didn't work that way. And she did do the WS remorse thing for the most part, a lot of trickle truthing, and only recently, past 1year DDay, when I said to her, "I think sometimes you still entertain the idea that you threw your future happiness under the bus", she tells me yes, but also she is sure that she did the right thing by returning to the marriage. Im beginning to think this means she is still living in a split self: The RIGHT thing to do is stay married, THE Emotional thing to do was to move forward with the AP. It's been a year of NC, even though they continue to work in the same Faculty, but there is still that lingering doubt in my mind about if it is really, deep down over, and not just on pause.

 

I will need to find a way to discuss this with her because if she senses that the answer to the question is a deal breaker, then I already know how well she lies about her feelings.

 

PFFF. Sorry, went off the line a little there!

 

 

Thanks for your post Fellini.

 

What you said has helped me re-evaluate my own experience. It is interesting what you said about how "needs are no longer being petitioned". This is exactly what happened to me. It was certainly not a case of me not doing enough for her. The reality is that she got really excited by this other guy and got swept along when he gave her attention. She did not cheat with anyone else. She was nuts about this guy and that is the guy she wanted.

 

She did not seem to see the OM as a viable option as he was very independent and did not want to have a serious relationship with her. But then, I guess that lack of control made the OM all the more attractive. She loved the feeling of safety and security I gave her, but I don't think she really took me that seriously.

 

As you say, these claims about being unhappy with me are just after the fact justifications. If she really was unhappy, she could have taken steps to improve the situation. The reality is that she was just "having some fun" with another guy she found irresistable, and she never dreamed she would get caught. She didn't want to leave me and she didn't want me to get hurt. But at the same time she was happy to keep the other guy in the background and she was not really serious about developing our relationship further. It seems I was just the "safe and secure" guy.

 

As you say, needs are fuzzy things. Often the WS does not really know why they cheat, so it is even more confusing for the BS to try and work it all out. i guess there are lots of different reasons why people cheat. Some people are just nasty and have no respect for others. Others are really insecure or have other personal issues. Other times, a reasonably well adjusted person can end up meeting the OM/OW and falling for them. I'm sure it happens all the time.... I do think the quality of the relationship is relevant though. If the WS's needs are not being met in the relationship, they will likely start looking around.

 

In most cases, I think people will cheat for a variety of all the above reasons. Once it happens, I guess all you can do is try to forgive or walk away. In my case, my ex could not take proper responsibility for what she did (she could not even tell me the truth about it). She could not fight for me as I have heard other WSs doing in the stories on this forum.... So, the decision for me was, while very painful, fairly straight ford.

[KathyM]

Because those (bolded) things are against the law? apart from a handful of religious fundamentalist places! infidelity is not against the law, so that reason doesn't hold.

 

Nor, I'd wager, do most people who engage in As "go around trying to damage / destroy" someone else's M. That is neither their intent nor aim - their aim is to enjoy their R. Any damage or destruction to anyone else's M is mere collateral damage.

According to the link posted previously by another poster, infidelity is against the law in 23 states - almost half the country. But you are implying that there is no such thing as a moral compass and a desire to do no harm, and that the only reason people do not harm others is because something is against the law, but that is not the case. I could go out and inconspicuously run a key across the side of my neighbor's car if he parks in the space I would have liked, and no one would know it was me who did it, but I don't because I have basic respect and decency towards my neighbor. Unfortunately, some people only care about themselves and what they want, and so they trample on the rights of others without regard for the damage they do, because they feel entitled to. That is psychopathic: severely harming others with no remorse or empathy for the people (BS and children) that you are harming.

 

 

You are saying that the OW/OM has no intent to harm the BS and her/his family, and that somehow that makes it O.K. because she doesn't intend to harm, yet she/he knows that her/his actions cause harm to the BS and the family and does it anyway. I would call that intent to harm, if you know your actions will harm the BS and his/her family, and you do it anyway. Of course, you also have the OW/OM that purposely tries to break up the marriage/family. Neither of those is showing any respect or empathy to the people they harm.

[cocorico]

apart from a handful of religious fundamentalist places! infidelity is not against the law, so that reason doesn't hold.

 

 

There are still adultery laws here in CO as well as 22 other states

(not sure if the link violates the guidelines-its for a newspaper-if its redacted-google it for yourselves)

 

Mass. among 23 states where adultery is a crime, but rarely prosecuted - Nation - The Boston Globe

 

That does not negate my statement. I did say that a handful of religious fundamentalist places had laws against infidelity.

[cocorico]

Any adult engaged in an affair know they are causing harm. They wouldn't go through such great lengths to keep it a secret if they didn't.

 

Not every AP does.

[Sub]

Not every AP does.

 

They would have to be extremely naive or willfully ignorant to not be aware of the negative consequences of their involvement. Unless I'm misunderstanding what your referring to.

[purplesorrow]

Not every AP does.

 

If they know the other person is married, they know they are helping to cause harm to the relationship. Or maybe I don't know what you mean by this?

[cocorico]

They would have to be extremely naive or willfully ignorant to not be aware of the negative consequences of their involvement. Unless I'm misunderstanding what your referring to.

 

If they know the other person is married, they know they are helping to cause harm to the relationship. Or maybe I don't know what you mean by this?

 

I was commenting that not every AP goes to "such great lengths" to keep the A a secret. Some are pretty open about it. Thus, the claim that they must be aware that they are "causing harm", is moot.

[BHsigh]

Not every AP does.

Nevermind, you explained.