Cheating, Arguing, Guilt, More Arguing.

[tomcrash77]

Hello LSers,

 

I've been a long time reader. I've read tons of advice that helped me with relationships until now in my 30s. I don't know why I took so long to become a poster, but here I am. I hope that my story can give people some insight into their own relationships as so many posts have done for me. I also hope people can give me insight.

 

I apologize in advance for I am sure what I'm writing will be confusing, long-winded, and fraught with conflicts, but that's what I'm feeling at the moment.

 

Part 1: Intro

 

We are both 31 and have been together for about 9 years. We met when we were in university. She was hard to get, but I finally got her. Despite warnings from friends that she got around. I was young, blinded and didn't see that side of her because she didn't present like that to me. Though in hindsight, it was more she chased me because I was 'innocent' and I really was too dumb and truly innocent to see her as she was.

 

We went to grad school together and lived together for a few years.

 

Part 2: Where I think the problems started

 

Our relationship was one that was highly physical. Along with really loving our majors, which we discussed at length in some truly intellectually engaging conversations. We bonded over school, sports, and sex. During our final year, we had much fewer classes in order to work on our theses. We really bonded during this time.

 

When we moved out for grad school, the sex just stopped. Not right away, but a few weeks in, it stopped. I didn't understand it as we were happy to be living together and loved school. It wasn't all fun and games. It was a real shock for me to be living with a girlfriend. I learned many lessons.

 

But the sex thing really bothered me. She completely shut down. Then she cited her religion as a reason, but it was always back and forth. It wasn't the regular sex life I wanted in a long term relationship.

 

Part 3: After grad school

 

After we finished, we actually moved back to our respective parents' place while we were seeking employment. She went on teaching in her field, and I became a critical incident counsellor. We saw each other only a few days a week. But I usually squeezed in more days than that.

 

For those days, you know, I'd like to get physically intimate with my girlfriend once a visiting session. I don't think it's unreasonable (though I could be way off, please let me know if you think I am). I understand there's times you don't want to and I didn't push. Eventually got really frustrated and started cold shouldering during conversations. Sex became a huge topic of contention for us. She didn't like to do it at home, but wasn't open to other venues like getting away for a weekend. She basically shut down. She tells me now I wasn't fulfilling her emotional needs. But I did push eventually, and became emotionally unavailable to her because I felt if she didn't want to try for me, why should I for her. I would take her out and have great nights but sex was never on the table. She said low sex drive. We tried various forms of BC so we could be closer and they only served to drive down a non-existent sex drive. She saw a few doctors to no avail.

 

Part 4: Cheating

 

Months ago she cheated on me. I found out because I was on her phone. I was just installing some apps for her and tapped on a notification by accident. Normally I close it right away and don't read anything, no matter how innocuous or who it is from. But the word 'sex' jumped right out at me. Now, I see who it's from, and I take a look. Yup, someone she works with. I had an inkling, the way she talked about him.

 

I confronted her immediately and she just looked at me sheepishly and tried to deny it as they're just joking around, but there's nothing joking about what I read. It's explicit and clear.

 

I leave immediately.

 

I've got a head full of steam. I'm conflicted, confused, and infuriated. I reach out to a friend, who advises me to just break it off. We talk, and I eventually go home to stew.

 

Part 5: Cheating aftermath

 

I re-confront her. This isn't the first time she has done it. Let's call this guy OM1. There's also OM2 a while ago. She does not apologize to me, nor does she do anything to try to make amends to me. Rather she goes on the stance that sex is just sex. I firmly believe she honestly believes this. She goes on to describe that sex is just like friends helping each other out. How can you explain to someone who thinks that of sexual relations (and is pretty much giving it to everyone but their partner) that this is not how you can act in a relationship.

 

I'm so frustrated, conflicted, and betrayed. This happening to me? I'm sure everyone that has been cheated on feels this way. Despite the conflict between the advice of friends, my own rational mind, and my feelings, I stay and try to ride it out. In part it was because we had been together for so long and I wanted to give R a real good go. I had good advice from people, but I chose to put it in the back of my mind and it created terrible conflict within me resulting in a variety of health problems.

 

I demanded boundaries that I didn't think were unreasonable. Cut off all contact with OM1 and OM2, message me when you get to and home from work, emails and everything on the phone are open to whenever I want to look at it. Going out must be cleared with me, and I want some proof you are actually out with whom you say you are out with. She agrees with my demands. But she is rebellious and 'forgets' at times to tell me when she gets home from work. She doesn't block OM1 or OM2 either. I have to do it for her.

 

She feels chained down. I say trust must be earned back.

 

A few weeks later she finds out that our friends know. When I say that, they were her friends and I integrated into the group as the years went by. I feel horrible at times in taking this group away from her, but I felt that the cheating was so egregious and blatant that I needed to discuss with these people and they provided me with great insight. They aren't surprised by the cheating, nor that it happened with OM1. Apparently those two had skirted the line of inappropriateness for a girl in a relationship and a guy knowing that fact. In past occasions, I'm told that they've had to C-block for me. Obviously I'm not happy to hear that and they bolster my decision to leave for good, but obviously I ignored that and tried to repair things. She eventually found out people knew, and the inner turmoil and conflict just drove me to leave for good.

 

I tried to practice NC, but you can still leave voicemails. Her crying took a heavy toll on my heart and I spoke to her. She accused me of turning everyone against her and I only left her with those she cheated on me with. I don't know what to say. I'm not a vindictive person by nature, and I didn't approach friends with that intent in my heart.

 

We talk on and off for weeks. It's all a mess up in my head. We have multiple conversations. She flip flops back and forth between being apologetic and that of one where I was at fault for everything such as being emotionally distant and frustrated because of the lack of sex leading her to cheat. Well maybe if she had talked to me about it instead of just cutting me out.

 

She maintains her sex is sex attitude. As the weeks go on, she starts to say things to try to get me back. Our conversations are her getting more and more desperate. But never obviously desperate because that would mean that I have the upper hand and that I might be right. She'll say we should go our own way, then she'll accuse me of not fighting for it. She says if she can forgive what I did to her, I can forgive what she did to me. She asks why I cannot accept her for who she is.

 

I've pursued some IC (despite being a counsellor myself, we need to have others talk to us sometimes). I think I'm able to put the cheating behind me as long as it never happens again. I firmly believe boundaries must be set. The same ones I set out before. She refuses to give up OM1 and OM2. I argue that R cannot happen unless they're gone. In return I work on my emotional unavailability and keep sex off the table until she reaches a point of happiness again. We argue some more, but nothing changes. She wants OM1 and OM2 since they are the only 'friends' left and I don't like it at all. She offers to not meet them, never to talk to them when I am present. I'm still not happy.

 

She offers no cheating ever which should have been offered from the start. But brings up that this is her. For whatever reason, she needs to or has urges to be with other men. I was never meant to find out of the infidelity. Well duh. She says I have not lost like she has. I counter with, let's not compare the pain we both have. I truly do feel regret for what I did. In ways, I almost wish I stayed silent and walked away, but I still don't feel what I did was vindictive since that was not the intent I had. I wonder if she does. It might even be a moot point at this time.

 

So here I sit. Honestly it is outright insane that I do sort of want to go back. But I know I'm getting walked over by allowing OM1 and 2 to remain in the picture. For her motions in trying to piece things back together, it's not even good. I've read other stories where other cheaters are apologetic right away, HB, and all sorts of things to prove they truly are remorseful. I don't feel the remorse here at all. She emanates loneliness and desperation and it tears me apart because I caused it and I know I can fix it. Albeit, at my own expense. Though I really wonder if it could be good again. Given what we now know about each other, could it be a foundation to a better relationship? I think I'd need more commitment from her though.

 

She offers limited contact with OM1 and 2, but refuses to cut them out. She won't let me take anything else away from her. She also says she can't take my word that I've changed through my IC and see how I was and what I need to change. I really dislike how sex is used as a bargaining chip. But I also held emotional availability hostage as well.

 

Ugh, such conflict. I don't even know why there's confusion in what action I should take. I'm pretty sure reading what I wrote, you'll see the internal conflict that I have.

 

How have you guys dealt with this. Obviously I must practice better NC. But I'm on the edge. I'm obviously very jealous which I wish I could put out of my mind. I have been informed that she is chasing another taken guy and he wants to be a willing participant in cheating on his own relationship.

 

It's absolutely insane that I want to go back. I have my blinders on and see no cheating and building happiness. I feel like a misguided teenager. I'm not sure what advice I seek here. I doled out advice in my very first post about leaving a cheater, and I feel like such a hypocrite that I can't seem to follow my own advice. I'm almost ashamed to be a counsellor myself (though relationships is not my specialty). I am lonely as well, and that doesn't help in my decisions. I really want to see her change. But does that seem doubtful or is it genuine? I don't know.

 

Anyways, it does feel good to get it all off my chest. Do I qualify for longest post?

 

Thanks all.

-Tom

[Darren Steez]

You were told she got around before you got together. You still pursued her.

She cheated on you twice. You still pursue her.

She's said she's not giving up the OM. You are still there.

 

I'm thinking you don't really listen.

 

If you are married get a divorce.

If you're not married, just leave.

 

Really that simple

[tomcrash77]

Yep.

 

I definitely feel the simplicity of it after you lay it out like that. Even though I already knew that, but thanks for laying it out like that.

 

I am not a good listener when it comes to my own relationship.

 

I am leaning heavily towards letting it all go. It's simple, yet I don't know why so difficult.

 

I must practice much better NC.

[ExpatInItaly]

There isn't a future here. Let her go and let yourself heal and find someone who loves and respects you enough to stay faithful. She doesn't. Plain and simple.

[lolablue17]

The cheating itself is irrelevant now. She told you 100 times in explicit word:

 

a. She needs sex with other men rather the her spouse. That's who she is.

b. Apparently sex is not just sex because she wants to keep them as friends. (potential with benefits)

 

It's all loud and clear - living with her means you should accept the fact that sometimes she must have sex with others, and after that keeping them as friends.

 

Last thing - She doesn't love you. She only needs you as support. Because when she have the choice to lose you and keeping OM 1 + 2, she chooses to lose you. If you love someone you choose otherwise.

[photonxyz]

You need to clear your mind- you are far too heavily invested in the relationship. Go out, join a gym, get exercise, start a new hobby, try some new things! You are dwelling on things and not thinking rationally. I’d recommend putting her photos away or anything else that reminds you of her. Delete her old text messages, emails or communications- shelve everything. Get your sanity back so you can start thinking rationally. I really don’t see the need for NC; just treat her as a friend now. However, move on with your life.

 

Tom, your last paragraph really tells the tale. You specifically mentioned being lonely- this is your BIGGEST problem. You also mention YOU “want to see her change”. However, only SHE can want change or make it happen. Choose sanity, mix things up in your own life, and get out of the mental torture chamber you yourself are constructing.

[ThatGirl213]

I am sorry you are in such a terrible situation.

 

I understand that because of the long history you both have and that you are in love with this woman, you want to see her change but after reading your story, I don't think she wants to change. You give a cheater a chance only if you see that they are genuinely making a effort. Not because you want to see them change.

 

Honestly I don't think she gives a damn about your feelings. She had the balls to say she will try not to talk to them when you are around and won't let them go. Why not? Are they options for her if you both don't work out? Being in a relationship with a person who thinks sex is like helping a friend out is a huge risk. You will have to be watching your back every single time she isn't around you. And talking to your friends is fine because everyone needs someone to vent their feelings to. You even got to know more about her after talking to your friends. She is only using it against you to feel less guilty. If she was truly sorry, she would put all that past and try to work it.

 

I am sorry but this won't work out right now. You will just be a doormat for her. Maybe several years down the line, when she realizes sex isn't sex and there is a connection you make with the person you sleep with, you may give it a try. But definitely not now.

[italianjob]

I think she has been quite clear. She doesn't believe in sexual exclusivity, it just means nothing to her. Some people are like that. She just has a different view of relationships that is not compatible to the one you have.

To be with her you would have to accept one heartbreak after another, or she would have to accept your view and end up frustrated and feeling trapped.

Move on, find someone who shares your values.

She doesn't and to pursue a serious relationship with her is just a waste of time for you IMO.

[No Limit]

She's even told you that she doesn't mind cheating and she's even demands to keep her lovers.

 

Dude, RUN. You've wasted 9 goddamned years. RUN RUN RUN RUN!

[Friskyone4u]

This one is simple. If you stay in this relationship you will either accept her sleeping with other guys, or she will do it by cheating on you. She has actually done you a favor by being so open about the fact that she plans on continuing to have sex with other men. That is about as clear cut as it can get.

No one here can give you any advice because only you can make that decision that either you are going to accept it or leave it. She is doing nothing to find out why she feels this and is refusing any effort to stop.

If you stay you are in for a lot of hurt

[drifter777]

Its difficult to leave her because you don't have good self-esteem. You have no confidence you will find another woman. You are afraid, and that is the worst (WORST) reason to stay with a cheater. Every day you are with her you will think about her having sex with these other guys - and it will make you sick. You cannot trust her; she's told you she has "urges" to screw other men and do her damnedest to hide it from you. All of this will weigh on your psyche and hurt you self-esteem even more. After all, you are settling for a woman who cheats, has no respect for you, and clearly does not love you.

 

Stop putting yourself through this and start building your self-respect. If not now, when? Get into counseling. Move away if you have to. You have a lot of life ahead of you and you need to break this horrible rut in order to have a chance at happiness. Be strong.