Daughter's bf is a punk

[Grumpybutfun]

My eldest daughter is probably like me more than any of my kids. She is a linear thinker, blessed with an ability to empathize, and likes to work really hard. She also became an Engineer, like me. Her bfs in the past have been very responsible people with high morals and good priorities. However, her latest bf is a thirty year old commercial artist (whom my wife and other daughter assures me is very attractive, he looks like a punk to me.) It isn't that he is an artist as my wife is also an artistic type, very head in the clouds, dreamy and I find it very irresistible because it is so opposite of me. Honestly, it isn't that he is flighty but because he sounds irresponsible. He talks like a surfer half the time and brags about some rather questionable things like running from the law on his motorcycle and being disrespectful of the elderly. Honestly, I am still trying to figure out what this is about...I kept asking over the weekend if my daughter was having a go at us..playing a belated April 1st joke. She isn't. She thinks he is so talented and funny. He is a punk...brash, rude and sounds ignorant as hell. Not used to this with my kids, but my wife suggested she is going through her bad boy phase now that I don't have such a dominant role in her life, trying to assert her independence from us. She is 23 and usually very smart and responsible. He hasn't done anything outwardly wrong, more of a hunch....but my wife says to say nothing...I know from raising them that out and out displeasure is just going to make her want him more, and I also know that at her age, she is an adult who can make her own decisions and I can't control her life...wouldn't want to do that. I suppose what I am asking is best way to address this adult to adult....though they are your kids...any life experience in dealing with adult child's odd choices in dates?

Honestly, flummoxed at her choice,

Grumps

 

P.s. I am also having issues with him being 13 years younger than me dating my daughter, though it isn't fair to them as we adopted and she wouldn't be as old if she were my natural daughter.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Grumpybutfun

[Grumpybutfun]

She is probably going through her "bad" boy phase.

 

You know you cannot say / show your displeasure but do not "bless" their relationship in any way.

 

If his name is brought up, find stuff to do like cleaning the gutters, go check the air in your wifes car, go cut the grass, go water the bushes, move things around in the attic, etc.

 

If they come over to visit, go run errands before they get there and don't return till they are gone. If forced to be their presence (holiday / family gathering), go find things to do that keeps you away from them like I mentioned earlier. Maybe it was a coincidence but my dad throughly cleaned all his guns when my sisters brought certain guys around.

 

When your wife or daughter asks you why you are not around... Play "dumb". You know the drill.

 

Good, this is exactly what I did right down to cleaning the gutters...great minds and all that....

G

[ja123]

Oh boy, I don't envy you, Grumps. But, yes, I think this is a phase. As previously mentioned, you'll only make her want him more if you put up a stink. So, make yourself scarce!

 

 

She sounds like a great girl with her head on her shoulders, so have confidence that she will grow out of this. Give her time and space.

[Grumpybutfun]

Oh boy, I don't envy you, Grumps. But, yes, I think this is a phase. As previously mentioned, you'll only make her want him more if you put up a stink. So, make yourself scarce!

 

 

She sounds like a great girl with her head on her shoulders, so have confidence that she will grow out of this. Give her time and space.

 

 

Good point...she has the tools and is a good daughter....but the heart want what it wants and even as blind and obtuse as I am, she really likes him....my wife thinks he's just not socialized well. Definitely not going to interfere...he doesn't seem dangerous at this point but all unknowns are dangerous up to a point.

Thanks,

Grumps

[regine_phalange]

As a daughter: I could use some protective -even slightly paranoid- fatherly advice, some moments of my life, before situations became bad.

 

I think, when she asks you abour your opinion of him, it would be nice to give a short and honest advice for facts about him that you didn't like and why, without sounding judgemental of her judgement/selection of boyfriends.

 

Don't worry, at some point (in some months or years) she will be coming running to you, asking your honest opinion about her boyfriends, and will beg you not to be discreet about it. Or even if you don't say anything, she will take your facial expressions into account when she introduces you to someone.

[Shepp]

my wife thinks he's just not socialized well

 

Funny, I remember my best mates mum using that turn of phrase about my gf when we kids "Kids aren't that different from puppies, you have to love them and socialise them when there young, do it too late and they'll always be wary" ...she's a dog trainer, love's her dog analogies!

 

 

I'm sure she'll be fine though G! You've taught her the skills she needs, when she needs them - she'll use them! I actually remember my sister having a boyfriend just like you describe when I was a little kid - everyone thought he was a bit of an idiot, in the end she did too - she just had to see it for herself!

[preraph]

Speaking as someone who liked the artistic and musician types pretty much exclusively, they can just be so fascinating to talk to and watch create. And yes, they were nearly all too irresponsible for me to even think about marrying. Loved them madly. Knew better than to marry one. But he is a "commercial artist." I'm telling you that may be different. My old flame I have carried a torch for all these years was one. Very creative, but he still had business acumen and ambition. He ended up a dean at a university eventually. He was gorgeous, long-haired, arrogant, and had to swat women away like flies. But he had a chivalrous side and liked to help women, like step in if their boyfriend was abusing them, things like that.

 

Just don't paint him with one brush because he's probably more complex. And if your daughter is a responsible person, if he crosses the line and does something she isn't ethically okay with, she will drop him. I have done this twice. Once with a glam rocker who told me he hit and run a car and once with a young punk I'd been seeing for 4 years because he stopped cleaning his hamster cage! I mean, I dropped them the same day and with very little fanfare because I can't live with that. If she's as great as you say, and I bet she is, let her expand her universe and her good judgment that you spent years instilling in her will eventually filter out the really bad ones.

 

The main thing you have to be on alert for with young women is most of them still believe if they love someone enough, it's meant to be and/or if they love someone enough, they will change for them and that love cures everything. So they will hang on to problematic relationships believing he will eventually come to be as faithful and loyal and respectful as she is. Now probably isn't a good time to have that talk because it will be seen as an attack on her new guy, but once that's blown over, do let her know that people don't change much and not to hang around if there's a dealbreaker.

[Grumpybutfun]

My little girl called me today and first thing she said was, you didn't like him at all, did you? I told her with a chuckle that I couldn't find anything overt that left me feeling like he was a serial killer. She said he comes off rough but I made him really nervous ( I reminded her that was my job to make sure they knew she has a father who loves her) and she said he didn't act like that when they were alone anymore as he has a bit of an anxiety around people. I told her I raised her to know her own worth and to make responsible choices as an adult so I don't have to like him if she does, but yes, he came off as a bit of a punk. She knew I would think that apparently, but she really feels for him, he is very complex, makes her laugh, treats her really well and is so talented and smart. I admit I didn't see any of that...she said she hasn't felt like that around anyone ever before and he has only been great to her, been very attentive and caring and fun. She told me she loves him...and I just about fell out of my chair as she has never said that before. He is nice is her stock answer for every guy she has ever dated.

I told her it is my job as her Poppy to make sure she gets the best in life, and she said she knows that and she wishes I would give this guy a chance because when she first met him she hated him and it grew into something really intense and emotional for them. They fought like cats and dogs because she thought he was a punk, but now he is so important to her. She said those fateful, terrible words...he loves me.

Preraph, He works for the Design Team who works with them on city projects up north. He is the lead Designer so preraph, what you wrote makes sense. I told her we could give it another go so my wife and I are going to meet them in New York City on Friday.

She gave me the whole, Poppy, I really need you to like him speech, which as I recall netted her three hamsters, four puppies, two kittens, a turtle and a rat. I used to tease her and say, Hey Noah called and he wants his animals back.

I will try to be less protective grumps, but I told her I can't promise her anything, this is my natural state for my kids, but she was thrilled with our next meetup.

Any thoughts?

G

[ASG]

Keep an open mind. He's probably not going to win you over the next time you meet him, but maybe he'll be less nervous and come across better this time around, and maybe that will improve with future meets.

 

And keep paying attention to what your daughter says (and doesn't say). Be there. But obviously don't diss the guy, since you know that will backfire. Just make the effort to be polite and civil and maybe he will indeed surprise you and show the side that your daughter loves!

[CrystalCastles]

Don't diss him to her face. Offer advice and support, but don't say anything bad about him because she'll get defensive and push away from you, which is counterproductive.

 

At this point all you can really do is just be there for her, but not impose on her relationship. At 23, many girls are still looking for their "type" so perhaps she's just experimenting with what is out there and seeing what type of guy best suits her. From what you've described, she doesn't sound like the kind of person who will be able to put up with a punk for long.

[preraph]

She's very lucky to have such an open-minded Poppy. In my day, parents were pretty hard on the long-hairs and the only insight they offered were they were commies.

[Grumpybutfun]

She's very lucky to have such an open-minded Poppy. In my day, parents were pretty hard on the long-hairs and the only insight they offered were they were commies.

 

Commies I haven't heard that term in a long time.

G

[ja123]

I'd be sh*tting bullets if I were you.

But, hey, at least he has a job!

During the meet, you might let your wife do most of the talking.

You don't want to get yourself in trouble!

I loved your description of all the animals she netted.

That made me laugh! Sooo cute.

I wish I'd had a dad like you, Grumps.

Edited May 14, 2014 by ja123

[Valen]

Even good women likes jerks, Grump. It's the same old story, "Oh he is different around me." "Oh he loves me." "Oh yes we fight a lot but I still love him." Well, you know how the plot usually plays out. Be prepare for the roller coaster ride. And of course your daughter will think she has everything in control until the day the day she comes home crying "Oh he's such an A-hole".

 

 

The worst part is the more you hate him the more she'll defend him, and she can't confide in you because she doesn't want you to be right about him. I recommend staying neutral with him. Don't hate him but show that you are willing to accept him. Just tell you daughter if she likes him that's all that matter and you trust her judgement. That you'll be there if she needs anything. Let this one fly out of the nest and hope she survive the cruel modern dating world and not end up becoming a single mom like so many.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Valen

[Smilecharmer]

Even good women likes jerks, Grump. It's the same old story, "Oh he is different around me." "Oh he loves me." "Oh yes we fight a lot but I still love him." Well, you know how the plot usually plays out. Be prepare for the roller coaster ride. And of course your daughter will think she has everything in control until the day the day she comes home crying "Oh he's such an A-hole".

 

 

The worst part is the more you hate him the more she'll defend him, and she can't confide in you because she doesn't want you to be right about him. I recommend staying neutral with him. Don't hate him but show that you are willing to accept him. Just tell you daughter if she likes him that's all that matter and you trust her judgement. That you'll be there if she needs anything. Let this one fly out of the nest and hope she survive the cruel modern dating world and not end up becoming a single mom like so many.

 

Nothing in what he described about his daughter makes me think she is like what you described...and why would you bring up being a single mom? She isn't some party animal sorority idiot. Did you not read about how this daughter paid her parents back for her college with her own money? She is a professional Engineer dating someone who is unlike what she usually dates who was probably nervous around grumpybutfun, who is an MMA competitor and pretty intellectually intimidating. I mean, I think any guy would be too nervous to show his best side. His daughter said he doesn't act like that normally and you have her being some dumb tramp who is going to end up with a jerky loser who will get her pregnant and leave her. Doesn't sound like she is the type.

Why must guys here act like because they don't have good experiences and can't get dates that all girls are idiots who only go for jerks?

 

I think you are doing fine, grumpybutfun. Sometimes first impressions aren't the best. Sometimes people just don't have filters when they are nervous. I guess it is according to how much you trust your daughter who sounds very responsible and smart.

[Valen]

Nothing in what he described about his daughter makes me think she is like what you described...and why would you bring up being a single mom? She isn't some party animal sorority idiot. Did you not read about how this daughter paid her parents back for her college with her own money? She is a professional Engineer dating someone who is unlike what she usually dates who was probably nervous around grumpybutfun, who is an MMA competitor and pretty intellectually intimidating. I mean, I think any guy would be too nervous to show his best side. His daughter said he doesn't act like that normally and you have her being some dumb tramp who is going to end up with a jerky loser who will get her pregnant and leave her. Doesn't sound like she is the type.

Why must guys here act like because they don't have good experiences and can't get dates that all girls are idiots who only go for jerks?

 

I think you are doing fine, grumpybutfun. Sometimes first impressions aren't the best. Sometimes people just don't have filters when they are nervous. I guess it is according to how much you trust your daughter who sounds very responsible and smart.

 

You might of missed that part where I said "good women". I know Grump's daughter is a good person. Hence why I said even good women likes jerks. And good people make mistakes too.

[Smilecharmer]

You might of missed that part where I said "good women". I know Grump's daughter is a good person. Hence why I said even good women likes jerks. And good people make mistakes too.

 

 

Damaged girls likes jerks. This guy sounds like he is awkward but not really a jerk to her. I guess I'm reading this wrong Valen.

[Valen]

Damaged girls likes jerks. This guy sounds like he is awkward but not really a jerk to her. I guess I'm reading this wrong Valen.

 

We can only hope that we are wrong about the guy. I do trust Grump's instinct though. And I do think Grump has raised a fine daughter so at least he can feel assure that she'll be able to take care of herself.

[Grumpybutfun]

I have no doubt she won't be one of those girls Valen. She has less tolerance for mean people than I do. She is a smart girl...I don't think he is necessarily a bad person, just not the caliber of guy I thought she would fall for since she has never fallen for anyone before enough to tell us she loves him.

My wife thinks I'm being a little overprotective but isn't that my job? Smiles and Valen, thanks for the comments and I am concerned but not convinced yet that he is a complete waste of space.

They are having a really great exhibit at the Cloisters in Saturday so maybe being in an artistic environment will make him feel more centered. I have scholarly interest in Medieval Art so it will be fun for my wife and I regardless.

Thanks for the comments,

Grumps

[RiverRunning]

It sounds like they haven't been together long -- so, there's always the chance that this relationship could go kaput in the future. Always remember: there's no ring or rings on the fingers yet!

 

But, barring that, first impressions don't always go over well. It sounds like your daughter is raving about him, so while he may come off a bit...differently, and he may not have the career hoped for, she's mentioned the things we all hope to hear our kids say about their partners: he's funny, he's good to me.

 

It can be a lot easier to find a guy with a job than it can be to find someone who leaves you feeling happy and supported.

 

I hope that all of the times you run into him again in the future go well...and hopefully, that he's able to woo the family with time. Who knows: if things do work out, maybe in 5 years you'll all have a laugh at how things initially didn't go over well.

[GorillaTheater]

Boy oh boy, do I know this situation. Except that my daughter married him. As far as I'm concerned, he talks way too much for a guy who's as dumb as a bag of dryer lint.

 

I expressed my concerns to my daughter while they were still dating, as delicately as a blunt, crusty bastard can, and she responded that they love each other (yikes) and that he treats her very well. As far as I can see, that's true. In fact, he probably puts up with more temper from her than I ever would, so maybe I need to speak with him about that. Protecting this blockhead from my daughter.

 

I put up with him as best I can, and keep my mouth shut. The wonderful grandson they've given me helps a lot.

 

I feel your pain, brother. But this one probably falls into the category of "not a hell of a lot you can do about it." Keep your eyes open, though.

[Haydn]

If not `deck` him Grumps. Ive all this to come!

[Tayla]

Grumps, if its any solice to you, I was deemed the "other side of the tracks gal" in my in laws eyes. Upper crust and all. I reflect back to the love my then husband and I had, we were so different that it seemed to work (for awhile). His father said not a dime one way or the other. His mother, she definitely got her jabs and indifference towards my being known every step of the way.

Because their son and I had children, they tolerated. Once the divorce happened , something magical occurred. His father welcomed me as an adult raising their grandchildren independently. I am 100% in agreement with my then in laws that I was not the best choice for their son. He and I are endearing friends 30 years later, yet we both ignored all the talks and red flags. (Love does that). So I had both actions- that of one parent simply "tolerating" whilst the other parent spoke ill. Niether action were pleasant. Wish they would have taken the time to get to know me, yet it took going thru the divorce for them to see some of the good that I had to offer as an adult. So that is that, if it means anything trust your gut instinct, its your child, yet be open to this person , they may just knock down some pre-conceived ideas.

[Grumpybutfun]

Grumps, if its any solice to you, I was deemed the "other side of the tracks gal" in my in laws eyes. Upper crust and all. I reflect back to the love my then husband and I had, we were so different that it seemed to work (for awhile). His father said not a dime one way or the other. His mother, she definitely got her jabs and indifference towards my being known every step of the way.

Because their son and I had children, they tolerated. Once the divorce happened , something magical occurred. His father welcomed me as an adult raising their grandchildren independently. I am 100% in agreement with my then in laws that I was not the best choice for their son. He and I are endearing friends 30 years later, yet we both ignored all the talks and red flags. (Love does that). So I had both actions- that of one parent simply "tolerating" whilst the other parent spoke ill. Niether action were pleasant. Wish they would have taken the time to get to know me, yet it took going thru the divorce for them to see some of the good that I had to offer as an adult. So that is that, if it means anything trust your gut instinct, its your child, yet be open to this person , they may just knock down some pre-conceived ideas.

 

My wife said the same thing, perhaps no one would really be good enough for my girl. She likes him, and my wife likes him, so I'm going into this weekend, traveling to NYC to hang out at the Cloisters tomorrow, with an open mind.

 

She is definitely a smart cookie so there must be more to him than I can see. She's so young to be talking about love, but i married her mom when she was only a bit older. Just seems like my little girl is still a little girl. I know I'm projecting here.

 

I definitely don't judge based on class or wealth, as I'm a former poor boy. It was more of how and what he spoke.

 

Thanks Tayla for a different viewpoint.

Grumps

[Tayla]

Your most welcome Grumps. I do understand your quandry, its your child no matter how adult they become. We want the best for them, in life and relations.