Accepting that you don't have the skills to be part of the game

[thedj10show]

A member posted in the sex sub-forum and it got me thinking about my own situation. So in order not to thread jack his post, I decided to create one of my own...

 

How do you accept that you don't have the qualities needed to play the dating game? It happens all the time. Too small to play sports, lack of education or intelligence to get a job in engineering or science, not enough connections to get into public office. But yet when it comes to dating, people keep throwing out confidence, waiting for it to be your time, and all of this other mumbo jumbo.

 

You don't become a phenomenal soccer player and golfer, get a Masters in computer engineering, and buy your own house at 22 by not having confidence in yourself. Yes I was bullied severely in high school and treated like I was beneath girls if I asked them out. But after I got to undergrad, I reinvented myself. I went out to console a friend on Saturday after he lost his job, and after he went home, I struck up a conversation with a random group of people that invited me out for further fun that evening. They said complementary things about my ability to hold conversation and was an exciting guy to be around. So I don't think I'm socially awkward.

 

My faults, that have been explicitly pointed out by women, and what I've done to try to alleviate them:

- being short (5'7"), well screwed there

- only 128 lbs., work out religiously, can lift more than most of my friends, am ripped, and eat 5,000 calories a day

- being "cute", not "hot", I don't even know what that means, although I've heard it means ugly but nice

 

My other faults that I know are a big deal:

- balding, but can't force myself to use Propecia and risk having my dongle never work again. My hair in undergrad was an afro and was the only thing that girls positively commented on.

- only had one relationship and sexual partner at 23, she became emotionally abusive because she knew I would never be able to find anyone else and I would be her puppy dog for life

 

I dress sharp, people say I have almost a GQ quality in the way I present myself. While being an engineer, I have a social life that people in grad school said allowed me to connect with the "nerds" and the "jocks". I'm a trustworthy friend, and will be standing up in three friends' weddings this year. I got cut from basketball in middle school because I was too short even though I was a great three point shooter. So I took up other sports and excelled at them. How can I convince myself to just give up on dating, settling down, having a family, and all of that stuff? It's not like I sit around the house moping. I go out and golf, play soccer, ride my bike and stuff, and have no problems doing them by myself, mainly because literally all of my friends are married so they don't have time anymore. Anybody have some ideas so that I don't feel bummed out?

[HappyLove]

How many women are you approaching weekly? I find that this is what holds most of us back. We are expecting a partner to fall out the sky without doing any work. I'd suggest making a goal to approach two women a week that you're attracted to. I think this is what most makes the difference between men who have women and men who don't.

 

Also believe it or not you may be intimidating because you dress sharp and have a great career so women may think you're already taken. So you need to chat them up. Also since you're sociable put the word out to your friends that you're looking if they know any nice women. You sound like a great catch but in your entire post I heard how great you are but didn't hear anything about you going after women.

Cute does NOT mean ugly!

Cute= Tobey Maguire Hot=Brad Pitt

Edited May 11, 2014 by HappyLove

[somedude81]

How can I convince myself to just give up on dating, settling down, having a family, and all of that stuff?

You can't convince yourself to give up because you don't want to quit.

[AdrianCrawley]

I dunno what you wrote in your very big post and I don't care. I can only tell you this: if you don't have the skill to do something, you get that skill.

You want to sleep with lots of women ? Get a beautiful body ( go to the gym).

You want to have relationships with lots of women ? Get a beautiful body and lots of money (go to the gym, and get a well-payed job, or start a business).

Until you have those, either you get another hobby, 'cause women aren't gonna like you much, as a mate, either start practicing and do that until you reach your goal.

[todreaminblue]

to me , th egame sucks.....

 

 

i could play if i wanted to be a player,

 

 

i know the moves and had players make moves on me,

 

 

they all suck they think they are playing the game,

they lost before they even began to play

 

 

finding a heart that is meant to be close to yours isnt a game,

 

i think the ones that realize that and opt out,

 

 

they are actually the winners........

 

 

the players who just want to play the game are just time wasters........

 

 

if you opt out....that when you find the serious contenders, or you can try and chase tails with all the others....a dog never catches its tail for a reason.............cause its stoopid to chase tails and looks pretty goofy

 

 

opt out...just play you and i need to tell you this, you are an expert at that and you dont even have to try...find the person who appreciates you and not the game.......no shame in that...its smart......best wishes...deb

 

 

 

 

f

[Bruce Leigh]

You say balding. Then go completely bald, i understand some women have an issue with bald men but a lot have no such hangups. Some women even prefer it if a guy is bald.

The cute thing, probably linked to the fact that you are in shape, have some looks and you are 5'7. It is meant as a complement although you may think it comes across as negative sometimes.

Wow, 5000 calories a day, your metabolism must be sky high coupled with all the sporting activities you are involved in.

If you do want to add a bit more weight to your frame then you need to consume more calories or cut back on certain activities so that you aren't burning it all away.

[R3d]

I think it's when I read threads like this, I become demoralized again about being short and Indian (for more information, see this thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/search/475084-being-indian-descent-really-detrimental-even-if-you-americanized). Then I post a thread about my insecurities, people pacify me, and then I am fine temporarily...until I read another thread like this. And it has been this endless cycle: read thread(s) about how being short or Indian is severely detrimental to your dating potential -> become demoralized -> post thread about it -> people pacify me -> repeat.

 

The reason I get demoralized after reading these types of threads is because I realize that I am in a similar position as them, actually a lot of times worse (like here), so I start foreseeing my future like this again...and I really don't want to end up like this (for those of you who don't know, I am 16).

[todreaminblue]

I think it's when I read threads like this, I become demoralized again about being short and Indian (for more information, see this thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/search/475084-being-indian-descent-really-detrimental-even-if-you-americanized). Then I post a thread about my insecurities, people pacify me, and then I am fine temporarily...until I read another thread like this. And it has been this endless cycle: read thread(s) about how being short or Indian is severely detrimental to your dating potential -> become demoralized -> post thread about it -> people pacify me -> repeat.

 

The reason I get demoralized after reading these types of threads is because I realize that I am in a similar position as them, actually a lot of times worse (like here), so I start foreseeing my future like this again...and I really don't want to end up like this (for those of you who don't know, I am 16).

 

 

you are 16,

 

 

dont believe everything you read or take it to heart ....there a lot of sad people on the board who have been hurt ....a crap load of hurt in here on loveshack.......they try to fidn reasons or understand why people have hurt them or rejected them ....mostly people want to feel accepted ......not rejected..........unfortunately life and love has a way of kicking your butt.......and it happens to super models ......and rock stars and indians and caucasians and aboriginals and every other race size and type of person there is on earth...... no one is immune from being hurt....everyone questions why....and sometimes we never know.......

 

 

dont ever demoralize yourself over someone elses self doubt and broken heart....what you wrote was very eloquently put for a sixteen year old...you give a crap which is great to see(not so eloquent.....from a 45 year old)

 

 

understand posters are hurt even though they have life experience more than you, doesnt stop hurt even if you have experienced it before and without a doubt they dont want to demoralize another but want to understand feeling demoralized themselves liek the poster of this thread and the posters actually trying to help.....help when you can....and yes 16 year olds can actually help.......you have a perspective that is important and different....rock on groover...;0).....deb

[mrnova66]

Well Op I can tell you this much and that is please do not be fool of what society tells you that confidence has anything to do with getting women. Fist of all it has zero,zip nothing to do with it. Look at all the losers out there in the real world. Look at them very close. Do you see any of them single? I can not speak for you but I have yet to see a complete loser(drunk,drug addict,bum,arrogant,jailbird,bank robber) single. Most are married, but never single. These winners never chase women. women chase them. They are waiting in line for them. There are no shortage of women that love these winners. OK!!Op!!How many good guys complain they cannot get women. Do you see the Mr. Scumbag do this. NO!!!He has no reason to. Women are on him like bees on honey. So you can throw confidence out the door. It does not mean crap. If you are going to be confident do it for yourself. Most women could careless about it.

[HappyLove]

You can have confidence and be a loser. Those losers are confident enough to approach women.

[thedj10show]

Thanks for the advice. Let me try to address the some of the points that people made.

 

HappyLove: I'm definitely NOT intimidating. I've had random guys come up at bars and start **** with me, where they'll admit it's because I'm an easy target to make fun of, and of course the ladies eat that up at the same time my social worth gets crushed. I've asked a few of my lady friends about their single friends. One said that my height was going to be an issue, the other said she's been looking for someone for me ever since she married my best friend but everyone she knows isn't single. I do try to ask out a girl every time I go out, which isn't as often any more, but I generally get the number and then no response or a one date and done thing. The girls I run across in my activities are always taken. Although strangely, I do have decent luck with online dating in terms of getting dates, but they never go anywhere. Tinder, I only got 2 matches, both of which were flakes. A few times I've been told that they weren't looking for anything, just for them to be banging my friends a few weeks later. I know I hyped myself up, but I can't be all that great or I wouldn't be in this position. You summarized perfectly how I feel. A 28 year old, confident loser.

 

Somedude: I don't want to quit, but eventually you get tired of changing yourself and trying to constantly improve, only to never have it be enough. A lot of your posts actually ring true for me as many of my struggles have been similar to yours. OT - the semester has to be coming to a close. Hopefully you've gotten your degree!

 

Deb: I agree on opting out of the game. But honestly at this point, my own mom doesn't even appreciate me. She told me last summer the two biggest mistakes she made were marrying my dad, and having me as a son. So if my own mom can say that about me, and my one girlfriend treated me awfully, I can't really say I'm super confident about meeting someone not amongst my existent group of friends that actually loves me.

 

Bruce: I already cut it down to a 1. Most people say I look good with it, but I remember when I had long hair and I could just show up and girls would run their hands through it. It's probably not that big of a deal, so I'll take your word for it.

 

R3d: I'm Guyanese, so of similar skin color to Indians. I grew up in a white community. I am the brownest white guy you will ever meet, haha. I have nothing in common with people of my culture. I have no idea if this plays a role, as I am primarily attracted to white women and while my ex-fiancée was Indian, their views on marriage and relationships seemed completely foreign to me and their parenting style really left my ex-fiancée with a lot of self-admitted psychological issues.

Edited May 12, 2014 by thedj10show

[stillafool]

I don't have any but you sound like a dream!

[El Brujo]

It's easy.

 

If you're trying to hang with a group of snobby people who play games you can't win, find another group.

 

Winning 100% of the time probably gets boring anyway, I'd imagine.

[mrnova66]

You can have confidence and be a loser. Those losers are confident enough to approach women.

I totally disagree. Just because a man does not work. Sit around getting drunk all day. No goals in life. Being arrogant(been everwhere,done everything,seen everybody,can do everything) does not mean he has confidence. But do not get me wrong Women seem to love these types so it can not be a bad thing to be a complete scumbag. I mean lets get real here. There are no shortage of women that will have relationship with these winners. You will not see one single. Most are married

[Imported]

You need to figure out what you want in life and what is important to you. Stop rationalizing any failure you might have working towards those goals no matter how hard you think you have tried and still failed as meaning it just wasn't meant to be. Your situation is not anything special. It is not any more difficult for you as it was for anyone else that has been in your position and succeeded. Hell, you most definitely have it easier than many guys out there that have already succeeded or will.

[HappyLove]

"R3d: I'm Guyanese, so of similar skin color to Indians. I grew up in a white community. I am the brownest white guy you will ever meet, haha. I have nothing in common with people of my culture. I have no idea if this plays a role, as I am primarily attracted to white women and while my ex-fiancée was Indian, their views on marriage and relationships seemed completely foreign to me and their parenting style really left my ex-fiancée with a lot of self-admitted psychological issues."

 

I've noticed a trend of men on here who consistently get turned down when they only go after white women or any woman other than there own race. How about you stop going after the same types and expand your options? I'd rather do that than live with this defeatist attitude. By being so picky you are limiting yourself.

[thedj10show]

"R3d: I'm Guyanese, so of similar skin color to Indians. I grew up in a white community. I am the brownest white guy you will ever meet, haha. I have nothing in common with people of my culture. I have no idea if this plays a role, as I am primarily attracted to white women and while my ex-fiancée was Indian, their views on marriage and relationships seemed completely foreign to me and their parenting style really left my ex-fiancée with a lot of self-admitted psychological issues."

 

I've noticed a trend of men on here who consistently get turned down when they only go after white women or any woman other than there own race. How about you stop going after the same types and expand your options? I'd rather do that than live with this defeatist attitude. By being so picky you are limiting yourself.

 

I live in Rochester, NY which is primarily Caucasian, very WASPy-eqsue in the suburbs. All of my friends are white. Guyanese people are common in NYC and Toronto, which are both 3+ hours away. I have nothing in common with the culture in which my extended family was raised to the point where spending any amount of time with them becomes a chore. I was engaged to an Indian girl, and the culture/expectations clash was a disaster. I'm not saying I'm opposed to dating people of my ethnic background, I just don't encounter them in my everyday life. Even when I was living in southern Arizona, where you encounter more Hispanic people, I still faced these issues.

[Valen]

Have you travel much outside of the US? Have you ever been to your ancestor's home country and live there for an extended period of time?

[thedj10show]

Have you travel much outside of the US? Have you ever been to your ancestor's home country and live there for an extended period of time?

 

I've backpacked through Europe, Canada, Mexico, and been to my homeland twice. Going through Europe was amazing and I met some really phenomenal people while I was there. I'm also going to Brazil this summer for the World Cup. I was in Guyana for 2 weeks when I was 14. But honestly, like I said earlier, I have nothing in common with my own people. They're very religious, near-minded people without an emphasis on higher education. Most of my family were farmers, so my dad and I were the first two people in our family with engineering degrees. I'm an atheist. I guess I could get an arranged marriage, as my family has bandied about that suggestion, but shouldn't I be allowed to be in love with somebody and enjoy that "in love" feeling, instead of hey you're married, now pump out kids, the end?

 

My ex-fiancee's friends who were very hard-up in their dating lives also were talking about moving to foreign countries to improve their chances. It seemed like a very haphazard way of going about things. Is that seriously what I have to face? I'm so undesirable in the United States, that I would have to move and find somebody that I would have nothing in common with?

 

Leigh did post in another thread that people overestimate their own looks. I don't think I'm anything special, maybe very slightly above average, but I guess I could be a buster. I guess if that were the case, how do I accept that? Because my accomplishments are real, tangible. That's why I push so hard because they're not subjective, and nobody can take them away from me. But looks are, and I don't even know if I have them or not.

[Imported]

I don't even know if I have them or not.

 

 

 

Do women tell you that you are a nice guy and fun to be around?

 

 

When you walk into any area with multiple women there, do you get the feeling you are being checked out?

 

 

You see a girl you find attractive. Say "hi" to her and give her your 'I am attracted, I wanna see your boobs' smile.

 

 

Did she go all shy? Did she smile back? Did she seem to try to hold back from smiling, but did so anyway without control? Did she give no indication back? Did she give a fake 'I am trying to be nice', but please don't bother me smile? Did she seem leery of what you're doing? Did she seem to be hoping you'd stop what you're doing and leave?

 

 

Women always check out guys coming into their area. If they think that guy is attractive, conversation stops with their friends. They go a little glazed over trying to look at the guy without appearing like they are looking at the guy. They chatter amongst their friends about the guy, glancing over. I dunno, but it's pretty ****ing obvious they are checking you out.

 

 

Not a 'bad boy' vs. 'nice guy' thing, but usually women don't tell guys they want to **** that they think you are a nice guy and you know how to make them laugh. They do say stuff like, 'I want a guy that can make me laugh', but you can just smile at them, say something stupid and laugh and they will laugh with you if they are attracted.

[thedj10show]

Do women tell you that you are a nice guy and fun to be around?

 

Yep. And that all of my interests and exploits make me an interesting guy and that I should be able to snap up a girlfriend no problem. Haha

 

When you walk into any area with multiple women there, do you get the feeling you are being checked out?

Nope. I'm easily the shortest and least attractive of my friends, so I'm the last thing they look at. If there were 4 girls and 4 of us, 2 girls would double up on someone else

 

You see a girl you find attractive. Say "hi" to her and give her your 'I am attracted, I wanna see your boobs' smile.

I've been told I have a pretty, white smile so if I'm walking by someone and I say hey and flash a little smile, I find she'll generally do the same. Is that interest or her just telling me to get a move on, or something that's just a natural response that doesn't necessarily convey interest. I do struggle with segueing into conversation just from looking at someone, where as I'm much better if we're at a gathering or party where conversation organically occurs.

 

 

Did she go all shy? Did she smile back? Did she seem to try to hold back from smiling, but did so anyway without control? Did she give no indication back? Did she give a fake 'I am trying to be nice', but please don't bother me smile? Did she seem leery of what you're doing? Did she seem to be hoping you'd stop what you're doing and leave?

 

 

Women always check out guys coming into their area. If they think that guy is attractive, conversation stops with their friends. They go a little glazed over trying to look at the guy without appearing like they are looking at the guy. They chatter amongst their friends about the guy, glancing over. I dunno, but it's pretty ****ing obvious they are checking you out.

 

 

Not a 'bad boy' vs. 'nice guy' thing, but usually women don't tell guys they want to **** that they think you are a nice guy and you know how to make them laugh. They do say stuff like, 'I want a guy that can make me laugh', but you can just smile at them, say something stupid and laugh and they will laugh with you if they are attracted.

 

 

That last paragraph sums up what I need to work on. I've don't have problems holding conversations, making friends, or making people laugh with jokes or stories. But there's never been even an opportunity to build up sexual tension or whatever it is. Then my friends can just say something about being drunk and that gets lapped up.

 

I've only been called flat out "hot" or "attractive" twice. One was my ex-fiancee which, after she displayed her money-centric tendencies after the engagement, I'm realizing I was just played for my money and co-dependency. The other was a old college friend that lived in my dorm. Turns out she was more about money then the ex-fiancee to the point where my friends shook me and said I had to get rid of her. And these were both over 4 years ago. I'm just lost.

[Valen]

How often do you ask women out? Let's say in one month, how many women have you ask?

[thedj10show]

How often do you ask women out? Let's say in one month, how many women have you ask?

 

This is a fair point. I don't go out often to bars anymore, but I'll run across a girl a week just being out and about. I use online dating, and I guess I'm some sort of anomaly because I actually can get meetup dates fairly easily, but they're generally the one and done type. I've been moving away from the OLD scene as I don't just want texting buddies. My activities aren't that popular for single women it seems. Soccer girls are very attractive and are always playing with their boyfriends, and girls that golf are rare and generally the country club type with the rich husband. I'm trying to find girls that bike as that seems to be more accessible. I'll preface what I'm going to say with I absolutely need to up my numbers game, but I struggled even at Michigan State and Arizona, both schools with over 20,000 females in their respective student bodies and encountering them all day, every day versus working M-F with engineers all week.

[littleplanet]

Game?

(a good sport is good for sports!)

 

Seriously: I was never any good at organized sports....but when I strapped on a pair of skates down at the old pond with a bunch of kids and just whaled away with a hockey stick, the pure enjoyment was always there - lots of laughs. Who cared about being a superstar?

 

To explore the metaphor.....make your own rules. Make them up as you go along.

Why does it become a competition with everyone and enyone else you figure is better at it than you?

Keep your eyes open and your wits about you.

Deciding beforehand that you don't possess the "equipment"......is sort of like dreaming about being able to run olympic qualifying speed. Few can do that......but you can still run (and enjoy it for what it's worth.)

 

It's not your hair, or your clothes, or your image. It's you.

If you decide yourself that you're not interesting to women - does that make you a deadbeat?

 

Players play games. Fine.

Everyone else just lives their life, and is basically in the same old boat.

 

The same old social rules apply: conversation (which requires listening skills) eye contact, body language, tone, expression.....the usual stuff.

Genuine still tops the charts. Liking people helps a lot.

 

Sounds trite I know - but being yourself has an amazing by-product: there's only one of you..........and nobody in the world can do that better than you can.

Good luck!

[thedj10show]

Game?

(a good sport is good for sports!)

 

Seriously: I was never any good at organized sports....but when I strapped on a pair of skates down at the old pond with a bunch of kids and just whaled away with a hockey stick, the pure enjoyment was always there - lots of laughs. Who cared about being a superstar?

 

To explore the metaphor.....make your own rules. Make them up as you go along.

Why does it become a competition with everyone and enyone else you figure is better at it than you?

Keep your eyes open and your wits about you.

Deciding beforehand that you don't possess the "equipment"......is sort of like dreaming about being able to run olympic qualifying speed. Few can do that......but you can still run (and enjoy it for what it's worth.)

 

It's not your hair, or your clothes, or your image. It's you.

If you decide yourself that you're not interesting to women - does that make you a deadbeat?

 

Players play games. Fine.

Everyone else just lives their life, and is basically in the same old boat.

 

The same old social rules apply: conversation (which requires listening skills) eye contact, body language, tone, expression.....the usual stuff.

Genuine still tops the charts. Liking people helps a lot.

 

Sounds trite I know - but being yourself has an amazing by-product: there's only one of you..........and nobody in the world can do that better than you can.

Good luck!

 

I'm not trying to be a superstar, I'm just trying to get off the bench. Does making your own rules matter when the objective isn't met? I'm wondering if I'm missing some of these social rules you mention. I'm not looking to change the environment I'm in or complain that it's unfair. I just either need to learn how to adapt or accept it's unlikely that I will.