My story

[annawulf]

Hi all, I've been lurking forever and need to post as I am in dire need of support. In some ways my story is classic but there are some differences. I think it will help me just to get it all down. I have been lucky enough to have lots of understanding friends but because it's all been going on for 2.5 years they're mainly bored of it now and I worry I will just compound the loss of respect for me by having failed to resolve the situation in any way. I also don't want anyone to think badly of him.

 

2.5 years ago got out of my EA marriage - two kids, all very amicable though obviously the breakup itself was really rough and took him by surprise (I had been trying to talk to him for years but we had a bad dynamic - I'm a people-pleaser, typical middle COAP - and hearing people is generally not his speciality. Our R is pretty much OK now but we still have to D and I find myself back in that pattern of pandering to him quite often.) I have been in IC on and off since then as also suffered two serious bereavements.

 

MM (professional associate) was implicated in the breakup as far as XH was concerned but I had already asked to separate before myself and MM even had a social conversation - I had a crush on MM at time of requesting separation but my series of intense unacknowledged crushes were my catalyst to leave, so as far as I was concerned this was just the latest harmless fantasy. I thought (ha!) the fact he was M meant that I would be totally turned off if he ever made a move on me. The attraction was intense from the off - just an unprecedented physical awareness of where he was in a room at all times, is the only way I can describe it. It got inappropriate about 2 months after I had asked XH to separate, but really just conversational, nothing physical happened.

 

We then went into a period of intense contact which circumstances allowed (apologies for any evasiveness, trying not to out myself), then ended up sleeping together about a month after XH moved out. Unbelievable experience, he said too emotionally intense to repeat and so immediately afterwards we 'broke up' for the first (of 1000) time(s). At this point I had no idea what I wanted, I was just out of a claustrophobic relationship and was following the desire, as was he. There was no future faking, he stated he was happily married (yes, I did find this off-putting, but obviously not too off-putting...), still sleeping with his W etc.

 

You guessed it - the last 2.5 years we have followed the cycle, unable to leave each other alone, sleep together, I can't cope, we break up. About three months in I spent my 'silver bullet' and slept with someone else, he reacted terribly, we were vile to each other and a week later were in bed again. Two months after this, we ended it, managed nearly three months of NC and then within two weeks of calling (I cracked, I missed him and the pain hadn't faded a bit so I figured might as well have the pleasure too) we were back in bed. It's always been sporadic, never regular, never an accepted norm. Me trying to break out by dating other people but ending up feeling either revolted or breaking their hearts. Last June me and MM broke up again and I decided I wouldn't see him until something material changed, though we were never very effective at staying out of contact.

 

I briefly dated someone else in the fall, which I told him about, and he insisted on seeing me saying he now wanted to leave (I called his dog-in-the-manger - we have always been totally open and I am thoroughly honest with him, I've never wanted to play games or 'win' him if he doesn't want to be with me). Five months without seeing him and nothing had gone away - I melt in his presence. (I would cringe at it myself if it wasn't happening to me.) I broke up with the other guy, MM kept me waiting whilst he had his conversations and then broke my heart before christmas in an email (I had CRAZILY suggested this as a medium as I wanted the reality of his choice to be there in his outbox whilst his family was there in his line of vision).

 

I flew off the handle, went into physical shock when I got the email though I had thought I had been prepared, threatened (not proud of this) to tell his W, managed not to. He said he just couldn't bring himself to do it, that I would be less hurt by this than they would by the alternative (he didn't feature in this calculus). Carried on with life and friends and trying to be normal but just couldn't keep up NC. Usually me coming up with spurious or canny reasons to get in touch and him taking the bait. Ended up coming to see me when I was ill in spring and he came to make me tea and we slept together (honestly unexpected, I was horribly ill and obviously knew there was a chance but thought it was about 5% due to me feeling and looking like total ****) only second time now in nearly a year, first was 'goodbye' after the Dec email which was a ****ING TERRIBLE idea, anyone who is entertaining that). He said he needed to sort himself out and was going for IC and I said I needed to let him do that by himself.

 

Three months later. We've seen each other twice, once for a drink and once very briefly for a work thing. We have had LC. I have tried to butt out of his IC which is probing very deep into a childhood trauma which I knew about. Two weeks ago he told his W, and has now gone full disclosure with all his family (she told the kids - ouch).

 

BUT.

 

He's not telling them he loves me and he wants to be with me. I think he's telling them I'm in the past. I get this, and I wasn't even pro disclosure (though I didn't offer this as I figured it was his decision). He's not telling me that, either, as he is desperate to manage my expectations and not make any promises. I don't know what to think. He did call and admit he wanted me to wait but he understood he had no right to ask or expect this. He needs space to get on with his IC and figure out what he wants.

 

I can't cope. I can't leave him alone. I don't know how to handle the hope after this long and I'm driving myself crazy thinking about their hysterical bonding (he says it's not happening, and I believe him - he has a record of non-functional honesty with me). His W has my contact details but hasn't contacted me (thank god). We talked today and he said he can't rush things, he needs to progress in an orderly fashion and if I can't wait then he needs to let me go (clearly not what either of us wants).

 

I just needed to get that out. And I guess I'll probably need you all when I get the message saying 'my W and I are happier than we've ever been and you were a terrible mistake, please leave me alone'.

 

Thanks for reading, sorry it's so long and jumbled. It will be good to get some perspective.

[annawulf]

I haven't really conveyed the desperation there. I work FT (no child support, cannot afford to lose job) and missed about half the day in the office today as I was sobbing in the loo/on the phone to him outside, mainly just breathing at each other. Someone must be able to help - tell me all the reasons he's an ass and I'm being duped and I need to meet someone else and forget about him. Or maybe I already sound slutty enough. Ugh.

[annawulf]

Not even anyone berating me? How has anyone else managed to keep the faith, or kill it and move on?

[Soverysad123]

Sweetheart, you are on that terrible roller coaster and are hurting so very much.

 

Nothing good comes from an A. But knowing that in our hearts still doesn't stop us. Just breath and take one day at a time. If you want this to end then you have to know it's going to hurt. I am in the middle of that hurting right now. I am still in LC because NC just feels to final.

 

Keep strong and let yourself cry xxxx

[annawulf]

Thanks so much. It helps to know anyone is listening. I do need to cry more but I don't know how I fit it in. I need to remain functional so I feel like I can't crack but then it all just spills over. My therapist said last week I spoke entirely about reason and no feelings. He said yesterday his asked him to come twice a week and he's refusing because he needs to stay functional. I just feel so pathetic and like it's not a legitimate pain because I got myself in this situation. I hope you're ok. How do you manage LC? I struggle so badly - every time we talk it raises more questions than answers though I know and we acknowledge openly these are really just excuses to be in contact. I miss him so much and I've seen him five times, and had sex twice, in eleven months.

 

How does this happen to intelligent, articulate, controlled, successful people?!

[annawulf]

And (sorry to keep bumping my own thread) - has anyone else had this? Where dday is a confession but neither an apology nor a unilateral decision to leave? What do I do with that? His W is now in IC too. He says he wants to work out the root problem so it doesn't affect whatever relationship he gets into (with her or me or third party). This is all sensible and great, of course.

[A.Moscote]

Be strong anna, don't let this dilemma derails your whole life. Be calm and take things slowly.

 

For me the single most important thing you have to get out of his mouth is whether he ultimately wants to have a committed life with you (presumably that is what you want too). At the moment, it sounds like he is not clear on what he wants and what he is going to do.

 

Hopefully he can firmly say yes to that question. Then work out a reasonable timeline for him to make his move out of the marriage (might be quite a while considering his 'no rush' and 'orderly fashion' style). At the meantime, please be patience, show him you conviction too, enjoy and build on this relationship steadily.

 

Yes this all started as an affair, it's unjust and dishonest, but it doesn't mean you can't correct that and work for the truth in the coming time. There is always chance for happiness in whatever relationship/situation.

 

Sorry if my presumption that what you want is an honest committed life with him is wrong.

Good luck, take care.

[annawulf]

Thank you. I feel like my well of strength is severely depleted, mainly by this but also reserves are low being a single parent, working FT with no support (XH has kids 5/6 nights a fortnight).

 

Yes, I want a committed life with him. It's not so obvious to me - I'm independent and fiercely protective of my kids and our little band of three; and they will always come first. It's hard to admit what I want but it feels impossible to imagine life without him.

 

He wants to be with me but only if he can do it in a way (that he's trying to find) which doesn't take his kids to a different country (she's foreign) and/or **** his w up completely. He has a lot of respect for her and deep guilt. I think that's how it is, anyway. I told him yesterday he should be completely open with her and not tell 80% of the truth and he said 'what, so tell her I love you more than I love her?'. (He's never said that before in an unqualified way, only in various poetic ways. I have balled him out on his 'poetry as non-committal language' too. I'm basically horrible to him.)

[annawulf]

I can't thank you enough. This is such a lifeline. I have started to feel too exhausted to do anything.

[Soverysad123]

Oh poppet I really feel for you. Three ish weeks ago my exMM said that's it no more friends, I am done leave me alone. I don't want to work on my marriage because I hate her but I can't be friends with you. I couldn't believe he hated his wife but still didn't want me. I felt like I was going to go crazy, felt out of control and was not sure how I could carry on doing normal every day things as though nothing had happened. But I did. Three weeks later, now in very LC I know that I can do this. He was not my sole mate like I thought and I need to focus on my H and children. I am giving myself time to grieve. The whole time I was in the A I enjoyed the high but the guilt was overwhelming. Now the missing is overwhelming but when I look at my babies faces I know I have to be sane for them.

 

You can be strong. You are a strong women x

[annawulf]

I know - kids are the only thing that keep me sane (and occasionally drive me mad ;-)) at the moment. Can't keep my thoughts steady for more than ten minutes. I am desperate to know of others whose Ddays were volunteered but this thread doesn't seem to be grabbing attention - maybe too long and jumbled?! Hope you're ok.

[sameoldthing]

I think if there is any chance of you and him even working out, you need to go silent. The reason I say this is the only way anything can even happen is if his need to HAVE you or at least be friends or whatever OVERRIDES his confusion. This will work well for you too because it won't be a case of you initating and due to insecurity not believing some of things he says to you.

 

Also, as easy as it is to slam someone in an affair, we are all human and fallible and while it may be unorthodox to say, I am certain this is a very hard situation for him as well REGARDLESS of what his intentions were/are. You need to just let him go for now as I have a feeling your persistence is also ego based ( why does he NOT WANT ME NOW)...and I can sympathezise with that as you are a person with feelings and this has been going on for a while.

 

I think instead of trying to focus on getting over him or hating him or berating yourself/being told off, you need to just let it go. Feelings can't be switched off so authomatically so embrace what you feel and let the rest slide. It'll suck yes, but what will suck more is hanging on. Ball's in his court and in my eyes, what will be will be so let it be.

[annawulf]

Thank you. I'll print that out and read it every time I feel like contacting him. I've given up smoking, it's just about conquering each individual craving, right?

[sameoldthing]

It really is. You can't help wanting to smoke ( I had a terrible cigar problem, yes you read that right), but you can help your fingers reaching across and lighting it :-)

 

I know it really hurts, I can imagine but it's times like this that define us. Let's just imagine a universe where it did work out between you two, wouldn't it be better if it were organic? One in which you moved on not because you wanted to but realised that it was fruitless to stand around and be further shattered, and one in which he could work through his own problems without additional worries and stress to both of you and his family.

 

If it's going to happen, it will but in the mean time, just know you did everything you could. Your feelings aren't in dispute here, he knows what its your heart and you can't be the one to force his hand. You can only think of your self preservation.

 

Good luck

[Poppy's sister]

Hi annawulf,

Gosh what a mess. Poor you. I can only say dday for my Ap was forced upon him, he confessed all. Aftermath was hideous but he wouldn't give up on me. Despite me saying he should go back (he did). He tells me he can't say he loves his wife and he can 100% see a life with me.

We have had 15 months of trying to be happy with what we can have. It is very hard and I am reaching end of line.

He says like your mm that he loves me more but so far there has been little action in way of setting goals and plans to be together.

I know from reading here many many men and women will give the AP all sorts of excuses and sob stories about why they haven't left.

Tbh your mm sounds as if he is floundering around in quagmire of emotions and just doesn't know what to do.

My AP has never future faked or made promises but says daily he can see we are both hurting and he is struggling big time with the decisions facing us.

Respect your mm, he hasn't lied ti you, he isn't cake eating or manipulating you as far as I can see.

You have to decide can you just say no more, sort yourself out and then come find me.... Or you muddle along, secretly hoping for more while pretending you are coping fine.... Belive me the second option is as painful as first.... I allow myself one crying session a day when I walk my dog ? .poor ? gets walked a lot !

[annawulf]

Thanks all. Trying to distract myself with work, feels semi successful. Can't tell you how happy and grateful I am to have you all - rest of life feels like surreal floating, tbh. Wish it wasn't so.

[jellybean89]

 

I can't cope. I can't leave him alone. I don't know how to handle the hope after this long and I'm driving myself crazy thinking about their hysterical bonding (he says it's not happening, and I believe him - he has a record of non-functional honesty with me). His W has my contact details but hasn't contacted me (thank god). We talked today and he said he can't rush things, he needs to progress in an orderly fashion and if I can't wait then he needs to let me go (clearly not what either of us wants).

.

 

I always feel so sad for the person who claims they "can't" leave someone else alone. I don't get that.

 

From what I can put together, this guy has used you repeatedly -- an ego boost for him -- and you freely give yourself (heart and body) to him when he wants it; yet he is not doing the same for you.

 

Why is that? He can't decide if he wants to stay married or not; yet he has no problems with continuing to use you to make him feel good? That's not love. That's lust and ego.

 

You are at work sobbing in the potty because why? because he can't decide what he wants? You claim he told his wife...is there proof of this? Let's say she contacts you and tells you she isn't giving up her husband, that he told her you won't leave him alone and keep pursuing him.... what will you say to that? You really think he has told everyone he is having an affair? I take it you want to wait for him to get his crap together and maybe leave? But in the meantime, you will continue to be in contact with him, have sex with him, etc?

 

You have children who need their mom to get her sh*t together and not be mooning and crying over some married pr*ck. You need to get your emotions under control before you end up losing your job because of this jerk. You need to refocus your life on yourself and your children. Are you really thinking you have a future with this guy? How do you think your children will react to that? Do you really think he is going to walk away from his wife, walk into your home and you two will start 'fresh'? IF that were even to happen, you do realize it would be most likely years down the road. So are you willing to waste more of your life on a dream? he sounds like a conceited jerkface who has no regard for your feelings. Who sends a "get lost" email at Christmas and then turns around and comes sees you when you are "so sick" and you have sex with him? It all sounds like a bad soap opera and you are going to end up even more hurt and heart broken if you continue this drama.

 

Let him go. Let him figure out his life. He isn't going to 'forget' about you if you stop contact. If he really loves you, he would not put you through this (I don't get the impression from what you have posted that he loves you -- not at all. He definitely doesn't respect you). He is enjoying the adoration from you. He is enjoy the ego feed you give him.

 

You do know you are worth more than being a secret lover, right? You do know your kids deserve a more honorable male role model in their life, right? If any of your kids are a daughter, is THIS what you would want for her? How would you feel if your imaginary future son-in-law was screwing around on your daughter OR your daughter was the unsuspecting betrayed spouse whose spouse was screwing his co-worker? Could you see yourself telling your friends/children/parents/siblings about how you and the MM came to be together (if that were ever to happen)?

 

I don't mean to be harsh - but I think he is a jerk who enjoys the games he is playing with you and your feelings. I do not believe he loves you, cares for you, respects you, is honest with you or quite frankly, gives a dang about you except for what you can GIVE him.

 

Let him go. If he wants to truly be WITH you, he will do it the right way. Right now, all that is happening is you are jumping through hoops, going up and down like a rollercoaster while he has a wife to take care of him and his needs and a mistress to fill in the areas of his selfish egotistical personality.

[annawulf]

Thanks - all input appreciated! I don't think he is jerking me around, it feels more like he's trying hard not to. I got asked out by someone else last night (he's sweet, I have thought of him like that before) - I should go, right? The thought feels so disloyal and wrong, but I have to remember he's (MM) there living a domestic life with his wife. I don't know - I have done that before and I feel like everyone gets hurt, me, MM (which I guess is just fair) and the other guy. I feel so conflicted and like I don't know up from down.

[sameoldthing]

Thanks - all input appreciated! I don't think he is jerking me around, it feels more like he's trying hard not to. I got asked out by someone else last night (he's sweet, I have thought of him like that before) - I should go, right? The thought feels so disloyal and wrong, but I have to remember he's (MM) there living a domestic life with his wife. I don't know - I have done that before and I feel like everyone gets hurt, me, MM (which I guess is just fair) and the other guy. I feel so conflicted and like I don't know up from down.

 

I agree in that I dont think he is jerking you around but this situation is messy. For your sake you can't just stay stagnant as you wait for him to make a decision etc. Feelings or no feelings, you need to be prepared for him maybe never leaving due to the hardship.

 

Don't think too much about it, do what feels right. A night out might be just what you need and it's not as if you have to volunteer all this info. Think of yourself!

[A.Moscote]

Yes, I want a committed life with him...

He wants to be with me but only if he can do it in a way...

So have both of you really decided on this commitment? Have he really gave you his word and estimated time? If not, that is what you should get first; his confirmation on committing to you and on working his way out of the marriage.

Have a serious discussion with him about that, of how and how long. You can't continue to be in this reckless relationship anymore. It has been two years and is getting more and more detrimental and unjust on you (and his wife).

 

I got asked out by someone else last night (he's sweet, I have thought of him like that before) - I should go, right?...

I believe it is best to say no and be honest that you are not in a situation to date someone now. Further more, illicit or not, you really are in a relationship with someone else. Be conscience, don't put your satisfaction above others. It's not fair to drag another guy (remember the last one?) into this mess. Not unless he knows you and actually wants to help you.

 

Come on anna, be strong and patience in working out this dilemma. You have survived and sacrificed a lot, so please believe in yourself and take steps one at a time. You can do this, many others here have. Remember that you are a mother of three, you have huge responsibilities, think of the future and don't let this situation continues.

Take care.

[annawulf]

Thank you, again.

 

No, he hasn't told me he definitely wants to be with me. He doesn't know what he wants, and he's said that. Most of all he wants to avoid making the same mistakes - he has hurt people terribly and knows this, and he wants to use his IC as an opportunity to understand why and how this happened. This has all come out of him trying to work out what he wants. He doesn't want to make me any promises - I know he misses me and he says being out of contact causes him great pain (that makes two of us!) but he won't make a unilateral decision to end his marriage and he won't tell me he wants to be with me.

 

I agree about the date, for the sake of the other guy (I'm not emotionally available, still) but how else can I move on? I have to just get on with things and MM can sort himself out and if I'm still there then great. I can't just be in limbo, and I can't put any pressure on him.

 

I'm functioning but so useless - can't even concentrate to read (my great love). Not working (dialling it in, saving up issues with things I have to deliver and can't), not doing my hobby. I am currently in the midst of an amazing opportunity workwise and I'm squandering it because I can't focus. Have been drinking and smoking too much (up from my usual one cigarette a day to two, and my usual bottle of wine a week to two, so not crazy, but still). I need to write this down to admit it to myself. Enjoying my children (I only have two - I'm the third of the band of three ). I know I can't do this anymore but I don't know how not to do it. Still, I have done a whole day NC (I sent him an SMS yesterday and one on Tues, no response which is fine). I will carry on as long as I can and try to remember that these times define us. I feel so lonely, though, and I worry that I am putting him first too much but not asking the questions I want to ask. Then I have to remember that my mind is as wily as a crack addict, a non-stop machine cranking out excuses for me to get in touch with him.

[annawulf]

oh, and also, no we have only had sex three times in the last year. All he gets from me is angst (although amazingly even though our conversations are often so fraught we can hardly speak, we always seem to be able to throw a bit of lighthearted chat in in between times - this is a very strange phenomenon). He knows I'm 'there' and that I love him but I did say yesterday that I'm neither waiting nor not waiting. He knows I have other offers and that I'm lonely (god, I'm lonely sometimes. My friends are all married with much younger children, my siblings are busy and my parents are dead.)

[sameoldthing]

oh, and also, no we have only had sex three times in the last year. All he gets from me is angst (although amazingly even though our conversations are often so fraught we can hardly speak, we always seem to be able to throw a bit of lighthearted chat in in between times - this is a very strange phenomenon). He knows I'm 'there' and that I love him but I did say yesterday that I'm neither waiting nor not waiting. He knows I have other offers and that I'm lonely (god, I'm lonely sometimes. My friends are all married with much younger children, my siblings are busy and my parents are dead.)

 

For heavens sake, go on the darn date haha! It s a d a t e not a life time proposition. Live a lottle. Life doesnt have to be a dr Phil textbook. Go on a great date and have fun! If you don't want him to know, dont tell him. I just feel you need to think of yourself and cut yourself a little slack. You seen like a very good person with a good heart and a great mother, its unfortunate you have this heart break and that is why ill tell you, please go out have fun and move on. What will be will be (how many times ive said this haha) wishing the best for you

[fellini]

oh, and also, no we have only had sex three times in the last year. All he gets from me is angst (although amazingly even though our conversations are often so fraught we can hardly speak, we always seem to be able to throw a bit of lighthearted chat in in between times - this is a very strange phenomenon). He knows I'm 'there' and that I love him but I did say yesterday that I'm neither waiting nor not waiting. He knows I have other offers and that I'm lonely (god, I'm lonely sometimes. My friends are all married with much younger children, my siblings are busy and my parents are dead.)

 

Google narcissistic hovering infidelity

 

This guy cannot promise you anything.

He cant handle that you, a single woman can date.

He cant be with you, but he wont let you disappear. Just in case...

 

Hovering. Narcissism. Check it out.

[annawulf]

Two days in (plus some hours) - feeling good. Still looking him up on twitter but I'll break that habit when I'm ready. Guy from Wednesday sent me a very sweet email reiterating the dinner invite so I guess I'll follow that up. Obviously still thinking about MM almost constantly but mood generally much better. If I know anything I know whatever stage I'm in won't last, so I just have to remember that in the down times too. It doesn't feel forever but a) that's how I gave up smoking, one fag at a time and b) it might not be! I'm trying to spend my time either not thinking about it or, if I have to, thinking balanced and down the middle rather than at the extremes.

 

Thanks for being there, everyone.