Christians: Why hasn't Jesus came back?

[endlessabyss]

Read an interesting essay on why some believe Jesus was a failed apocalyptic prophet, written by John Loftus. I think the guy is fueled off emotion, biased, and the farthest thing from objective it what he espouses, but he does make an interesting argument (at least from my point of view, due to my limited knowledge on the topic). I have read about half of the OT, and 90% of the NT, but haven't really studied it.

 

Apparently, Jesus supposedly followed a long line of apocalyptic prophets from his time, and the authors of books from the Bible had to continually move the marker to when the end was supposed to occur (reason being prophets had always predicted wrongly in the past).

 

Now, I understand that I am reading an essay that is biased to a certain worldview, but I wanted to get some Christians point of views on this. It is interesting, 2,000 years later, and Jesus still hasn't returned, especially in times of corruption the world is experiencing now.

[johnpatric]

Simply said, its not the correct time yet. there are still missionaries in the world, and people to be saved. when it becomes zero people to be saved and/or the end of time, that's when the wicked will be destroyed.

remember God does not will that any man should perish but is long suffering towards us that we should have faith and repent.

JST 2 Pet. 3: 3-13

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise and coming, as some men count slackness; but long-suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[Haydn]

He is probably consulting with an army of lawyers and publicists.

[endlessabyss]

Simply said, its not the correct time yet. there are still missionaries in the world, and people to be saved. when it becomes zero people to be saved and/or the end of time, that's when the wicked will be destroyed.

remember God does not will that any man should perish but is long suffering towards us that we should have faith and repent.

JST 2 Pet. 3: 3-13

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise and coming, as some men count slackness; but long-suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

 

But if the prophesies had to be changed/re-interpreted, doesn't that make the Bible invalid?

 

From what I read in this particular essay, the consummation of the ages was supposed to begin to materialize during Jesus' time, and come to fruition before all the apostles died. Additionally, it seems like certain portions of all the Gospels, subsequent to Mark, had to be re-written to accommodate for this failed prophecy.

 

He is probably consulting with an army of lawyers and publicists.

 

Is this a troll attempt, mate?

Edited May 14, 2014 by endlessabyss

[johnpatric]

But if the prophesies had to be changed/re-interpreted, doesn't that make the Bible invalid?

 

From what I read in this particular essay, the consummation of the ages was supposed to begin to materialize during Jesus' time, and come to fruition before all the apostles died. Additionally, it seems like certain portions of all the Gospels, subsequent to Mark, had to be re-written to accommodate for this failed prophecy.

 

In short Jesus is every where you can't see him but you can feel him..

[Haydn]

No, but i should stay away from these kinds of threads. Let you believers get on with it. Just thought levity was needed. Apologies. But i can`t feel Jesus. As a non believer, oral history is very interesting.

 

But if the prophesies had to be changed/re-interpreted, doesn't that make the Bible invalid?

 

From what I read in this particular essay, the consummation of the ages was supposed to begin to materialize during Jesus' time, and come to fruition before all the apostles died. Additionally, it seems like certain portions of all the Gospels, subsequent to Mark, had to be re-written to accommodate for this failed prophecy.

 

 

 

Is this a troll attempt, mate?

[TylerDurdenn]

He's too busy smoking crack and watching redtube.

 

(Don't forget that my theory is as plausible as yours )

[OpenBook]

Well, God is allowed to change His mind, no? He's the only one who sees the "big picture" - not to mention being the most qualified to orchestrate the 2nd Coming and everything else.

 

I'll let Him sort all that out. Not my place to judge it.

[Allumere]

No, but i should stay away from these kinds of threads. Let you believers get on with it. Just thought levity was needed. Apologies. But i can`t feel Jesus. As a non believer, oral history is very interesting.

 

....no, you are definitely not a troll and I snickered...humor is humor

[M30USA]

The Bible gives us 3 reasons why Jesus hasn't returned yet. There may be more but these are the ones I know off hand:

 

1) Jesus said the "time of the Gentiles" must be fulfilled before his return. This means one of two possible things: either God has a predetermined time period for which non-Jews can become part of his kingdom, or God is waiting for a specific number of non-Jews to join his kingdom (sort of a quota).

 

2) The Gospel must be preached to all the areas of earth and reach all people groups. This is to fulfill the prophecy which says that there will be saints from every tribe, nation and language.

 

3) God is "longsuffering" and is giving you and I more time to repent.

Edited May 14, 2014 by M30USA

[endlessabyss]

Well, God is allowed to change His mind, no? He's the only one who sees the "big picture" - not to mention being the most qualified to orchestrate the 2nd Coming and everything else.

 

I'll let Him sort all that out. Not my place to judge it.

 

I'm not judging, but reading some of the opposing arguments just makes me question things like I haven't before. Some of these arguments against Christianity are new to me, and definitely cause some doubts.

 

It doesn't rattle my faith about God, but it makes God a complete mystery to me. Is God personal? Does God care about me, or what I do?

 

He is probably consulting with an army of lawyers and publicists.

 

Figures the two troll posts are from London natives lol. That was almost too predictable. Don't mind my intellectual inferiority, all-knowing one

Edited May 14, 2014 by endlessabyss

[M30USA]

I'm not judging, but reading some of the opposing arguments just makes me question things like I haven't before. Some of these arguments against Christianity are new to me, and definitely cause some doubts.

 

It doesn't rattle my faith about God, but it makes God a complete mystery to me. Is God personal? Does God care about me, or what I do?

 

Why do you think God is impersonal and doesn't care about what you do?

[M30USA]

Well, God is allowed to change His mind, no? He's the only one who sees the "big picture" - not to mention being the most qualified to orchestrate the 2nd Coming and everything else.

 

I'll let Him sort all that out. Not my place to judge it.

 

The book of Revelation encourages us to seek out understanding regarding prophecy. It even calls us "blessed" for doing so. While God is certainly in control, he had chosen to reveal some of his plans to us so that we also might know. I personally believe those who study prophecy are less likely to get deceived by the plan of Satan when it does unfold.

[pureinheart]

Read an interesting essay on why some believe Jesus was a failed apocalyptic prophet, written by John Loftus. I think the guy is fueled off emotion, biased, and the farthest thing from objective it what he espouses, but he does make an interesting argument (at least from my point of view, due to my limited knowledge on the topic). I have read about half of the OT, and 90% of the NT, but haven't really studied it.

 

Apparently, Jesus supposedly followed a long line of apocalyptic prophets from his time, and the authors of books from the Bible had to continually move the marker to when the end was supposed to occur (reason being prophets had always predicted wrongly in the past).

 

Now, I understand that I am reading an essay that is biased to a certain worldview, but I wanted to get some Christians point of views on this. It is interesting, 2,000 years later, and Jesus still hasn't returned, especially in times of corruption the world is experiencing now.

 

There are so many factors, it's difficult to cover them all. Time is short, but we're not there yet as a few things must take place first. One being the Rapture of the church and so on.

 

As in the days of Noah:

 

https://www.raptureready.com/featured/funk/noah.html

 

I didn't read the entire article, breezing through it seemed to be on track, although I wanted to put this Scripture out there.

 

There are many theories and studies concerning this, so after putting all of the pieces together and if you notice the rate at which many things have advanced/increased very quickly in the last few years in comparison since the 1900's, we are closer than ever.

 

It's about connecting the dots in many areas; the political climate, violence, apostasy etc. … we are close and IMO the Rapture could take place any day now.

[TheFinalWord]

Read an interesting essay on why some believe Jesus was a failed apocalyptic prophet, written by John Loftus. I think the guy is fueled off emotion, biased, and the farthest thing from objective it what he espouses, but he does make an interesting argument (at least from my point of view, due to my limited knowledge on the topic). I have read about half of the OT, and 90% of the NT, but haven't really studied it.

 

Apparently, Jesus supposedly followed a long line of apocalyptic prophets from his time, and the authors of books from the Bible had to continually move the marker to when the end was supposed to occur (reason being prophets had always predicted wrongly in the past).

 

Now, I understand that I am reading an essay that is biased to a certain worldview, but I wanted to get some Christians point of views on this. It is interesting, 2,000 years later, and Jesus still hasn't returned, especially in times of corruption the world is experiencing now.

 

Just some verses to consider from Peter:

 

Knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.”...But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief

 

If you are wondering why God has not yet returned to destroy his enemies, who mock, blaspheme, and slander the very one who gave (and continues to give) them life, it's because His tolerance and mercy are so much higher than our own. I am a patient person, but admit I cannot comprehend how God can be so slow to wrath. But that's why He's God and I'm not.

 

Yes, the end has been "predicted" so many times. The bible teaches not to do that, but people do anyway. Many of us have said on here, not to look at man as your barometer. Only Jesus. In this regard, we already know Jesus' opinion on the matter of His return.

 

“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

 

Hope this helps buddy.

Edited May 14, 2014 by TheFinalWord

[endlessabyss]

Why do you think God is impersonal and doesn't care about what you do?

 

I believe suffering is my reason for thinking that God maybe impersonal, which leads me to deduce that He doesn't care what I do.

 

I know the Bible addressing suffering in Genesis, but sometime I can't wrap my head around it.

 

Just some verses to consider from Peter:

 

Knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.”...But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief

 

If you are wondering why God has not yet returned to destroy his enemies, who mock, blaspheme, and slander the very one who gave (and continues to give) them life, it's because His tolerance and mercy are so much higher than our own. I am a patient person, but admit I cannot comprehend how God can be so slow to wrath. But that's why He's God and I'm not.

 

Yes, the end has been "predicted" so many times. The bible teaches not to do that, but people do anyway. Many of us have said on here, not to look at man as your barometer. Only Jesus. In this regard, we already know Jesus' opinion on the matter of His return.

 

“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

 

Hope this helps buddy.

 

Thanks for contributing to this thread.

 

I have read Peter, and it answers a lot of the questions I have. But, from what I have researched so far, among contemporary scholars, is that letters from Peter may be forgeries. Bart Erhman , one of the leading NT scholars today, addresses them in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Forged-Writing-God--Why-Bibles-Authors/dp/B006QS02F8/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1400099241&sr=8-5&keywords=bart+ehrman

 

Erhman was a former Christian as well, so I ask myself what is he seeing that I'm not. His research obviously holds weight to me, since he has dedicated his life to studying these manuscripts.

Edited May 14, 2014 by endlessabyss

[TheFinalWord]

Thanks for contributing to this thread.

 

I have read Peter, and it answers a lot of the questions I have. But, from what I have researched so far, among contemporary scholars, is that letters from Peter may be forgeries. Bart Erhman , one of the leading NT scholars today, addresses them in this book: Forged: Writing in the Name of God--Why the Bible's Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are: Bart D. Ehrman: 8601400707555: Amazon.com: Books

 

Erhman was a former Christian as well, so I ask myself what is he seeing that I'm not. His research obviously holds weight to me, since he has dedicated his life to studying these manuscripts.

 

Thank you.

 

If you are interested in the scholarly debate, you might review the White/Erhman debates.

 

 

If you want to discuss this question in the context of specific (if any) NT texts you consider valid, than that may be more ideal

[pie2]

Why hasn't Jesus come back? Man, OP...going with the simple questions.

 

I don't know. But, 2000 years later, most of the world is still talking about Jesus, and have some sort of belief in him (at least that he existed, if nothing else). I think that's pretty significant. Something about Jesus and his message has rung true in the hearts of so many.

 

The rest of the "false prophets" have fallen away and are not remembered, while Jesus remains a powerful figure. I guess it comes down to taking into account the credibility of messages you hear, and deciding which path is the most logical. If putting your faith in Jesus makes the most sense, then waiting for his return is only a small inconvenience compared to all of the blessings we receive .

[endlessabyss]

Thank you.

 

If you are interested in the scholarly debate, you might review the White/Erhman debates.

 

 

If you want to discuss this question in the context of specific (if any) NT texts you consider valid, than that may be more ideal

 

I started to watch some of the debate. I watched another debate, recently, between Erhman and Mike Licona, and really liked the methodology Licona used to draw his inferences.

 

After doing a little research on Erhman, it seems like he lost his faith due to the problem of suffering. It seems that errancy had nothing to do with his loss of faith. Possible errancy really hit me hard at first, but after mulling it over, possible errancy in the Bible takes nothing away from the historicity of Jesus.

 

Jesus seems to be the only way for me. I feel like I have been looking for a way to abandon my faith over the last several years, but there is something about Jesus that won't let me let go.

Edited May 18, 2014 by endlessabyss

[TheFinalWord]

I feel like I have been looking for a way to abandon my faith over the last several years, but there is something about Jesus that won't let me let go.

 

I understand my friend! I have been there more than once myself.

 

I don't think I can summarize any better than the dialog between CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien

 

[Fluttershy]

I'm not a christian but I have studied religeon quite a bit. Most of the timed predictions of the second coming I believe are "manmade". Biblicaly speaking Jesus himself said you won't know. And then people try to say when it is directly contradicting the man who is the foundation of the Christian faith.

[M30USA]

I'm not a christian but I have studied religeon quite a bit. Most of the timed predictions of the second coming I believe are "manmade". Biblicaly speaking Jesus himself said you won't know. And then people try to say when it is directly contradicting the man who is the foundation of the Christian faith.

 

We can't know the "day or the hour", but Jesus told us the signs to watch for do that we can know the "season" when it's about to happen.