They were never our friends, were they?

[movingon45]

Sadly, my therapist is right that our A partners are never our friends. Once the A is over, the attention and the friendship that made us think that they are our soul mates are also gone. We miss them, miss the "friendship" but actually they were there for us only because it was convenient for them and they were getting what they wanted.

 

This thought is strengthening my resolve to stay in NC. 12 days now. The worst part is over, I hope! I no longer want to text although I want him to text me! (for my ego). I'm glad he hasn't because that will just set me back again.

[Goodbye]

Our friendship and love were based on his lies. So no, looking back he wasn't even a friend. Very sad. Wonder if he even has any real friends.

[carhill]

Well, that could apply to any relationship. Was my former spouse ever my spouse? Did she ever love me? Was she ever my friend? I hers? Same for platonic friends.

 

My perspective is that, just because something, a relationship, ends, doesn't negate or erase the time that it was, and all that it was, both the happy and the sad, the good and the bad, the better and the worse. It is what it is, and was. It ended. Time marches on!

 

I can state that, whether as an OM or a MM, during those times, I certainly did love and care for those persons and time cannot erase that reality, even if I don't love them today. How they felt is within their own mind and something I will never know, nor can anyone but they themselves. That's no different from anyone. We cannot ever know what is in another's mind. We can *believe*. It's a choice. Good luck!

[RickFox]

Friends within the moment, that's pretty much how I see it and when the chips were down and choices were to be made, no longer friends but the enemy.

 

I hate to say this, but you haven't even hit the waves of emotion that are coming after a mere 12 days of NC. The important thing to remember is "don't."

[MissBee]

The thing is, with any relationship, even if you were friends, once it is over it is almost impossible to just subtract the "friendship" element only and go back to that. It's simply something that once crossed usually cannot be uncrossed.

 

If you want a friend...leave romance out of it and chances are you'll continue to have that friend come what may.

 

If you had a friend before and added romance to it, chances are you will lose that friendship when the romance goes sour. If you had a romance and of course the person became your friend/bestfriend because of the relationship, same thing.

 

The two, romance and friendship, can rarely meet and then go back to friends once it is over esp in affairs. With normal non-secret, non-deceptive relationships there is a higher chance that one could somehow be friends when it all dies down but with affairs, esp if the person has a dday and is staying married, it is almost impossible that they can somehow be your friend at the same time.

Edited May 15, 2014 by MissBee

[Fluttershy]

I agree with people who say current actions don't change past. "on the other side" there are people who say "they never loved me because theycheated" like love and friendship are guaranteed for life. I have had amazing friends who are no longer my friend because of this or that. A fall out doesn't change history.

 

BUT

 

there are good friends to have and friends that are goig to cause more damage than good. So his being your friend or not really don't matter. Your friendship was a slipper slope that became more harmful than good.

 

 

Keep being strof and working on you. It will get easier.

[forbidden_love]

I found something out this week that he could have saved me from being hurt from but even though it did not make a difference to him, he did not tell me. So yes, I thought he was my soulmate but he is a selfish bastad, and that includes all his relationships not just me. so I am where his wife is at. In fact this man, despite loving me and me loving him, puts himself first. he loves no one right now. I do not know if that is a result of two d days or total stupidity, but he sure is the shell of the man i knew. And I did tell him that, is this normal after d days, total numbness including the head, BS and OW experience this.

Edited May 15, 2014 by forbidden_love

[Speakingofwhich]

Great that you're staying true to NC with your A partner! I encourage you to continue as there are many reasons other than whether or not he's a true friend to do so!

 

As to whether he's your true friend or not, you know the answer to this best and I certainly don't have a clue; however, I believe whether an A partner is a true friend or not varies with the person and the couple just as it would for a platonic friendship.

 

For fifteen years I had very little contact with my XMM. But, he did some work for me without charge that helped me greatly in my career after ten years of the affair being over. I called and asked for his assistance after years of NC. I know he's my true friend and would step in to help me no matter our relationship status. As I would for him.

 

My X husband (married 17 years) wouldn't have done this for me. He's the one who wasn't my true friend.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Speakingofwhich

[movingon45]

Thanks for writing about your thoughts on this.

 

RickFox, we've had several NC and LC, the longest NC was 3 months I think. For me the worst part is the first 5 days when the itch to make contact is so hard that I had to delete him from my contact to stop the urge. I put him back in as a sign for me that I'm now stronger. I can never delete him completely and maybe that's why I haven't fully moved on yet.

 

He used to give me great advice on my marital problems (bad thing to do I know but he kept on fishing and I felt that I needed to vent) but he was always there for me. He was so reliable and often we'd text for straight 1-2 hours and his responses were insightful. Maybe he did that for his ego. He was my ex bf - in college I chose my husband over him. My therapist said that it's so easy to dish out advice when you think that you're the better man, but he won't always be there. True enough when I decided to end it, he disappeared completely. Ironically he was the one who led me to see the therapist that's why I thought we could really be friends. Not!

[Speakingofwhich]

True enough when I decided to end it, he disappeared completely. Ironically he was the one who led me to see the therapist that's why I thought we could really be friends. Not!

 

Possibly he disappeared completely because he was truly your friend and knew that was best for you.

 

Or maybe he had to in order to deal with his own emotions.

 

Either way (and even if it's none of the above!), it's wonderful that you're putting the A to rest and, as your name says, "moving on!"

[Hope Shimmers]

Yes, he was my best friend for many years. The situation now does not negate that fact, and it never will.

[Waverly]

Yes, he was my best friend for many years. The situation now does not negate that fact, and it never will.

 

I'm trying so hard to get to that point. I would LOVE to be able to say "he was my friend, I loved him, he loved me, but it didn't work". Or at least be able to say it without wanting to crumble because of the mess we've made of that friendship, and question whether anything was ever true in the first place.

[LaylaSings]

I'm trying so hard to get to that point. I would LOVE to be able to say "he was my friend, I loved him, he loved me, but it didn't work". Or at least be able to say it without wanting to crumble because of the mess we've made of that friendship, and question whether anything was ever true in the first place.

 

I'm so glad I found this place because I really felt like nobody else had any idea the things I was feeling. I feel exactly like this so much.. If we had never crossed the line, what a special thing it was and how we can never ever get it back now. I had never met someone who I could relate to as much as this guy ever in my life. It was like meeting the male version of myself and at very first, for me at least , it was totally platonic and innocent and I had no instant attraction to him. (he says otherwise for him but who knows)

I never ever thought Id cheat. When you think you Won't maybe that's when you let your guard down. I'm rambling.

 

But I do grieve for the friendship, even though we are still friendly it will never be like it could have been if we had both just respected our spouses enough not to go there..

 

I think we were really friends though. I do. In the beginning and I'm sure for most it's like that. The moment you realize it can never go further is when it all changes .. When you realize you are more than friends, that some of the stuff you are doing, you would never do to a friend! And then you realize that stage of the relationship is over. You can't get it back.

[LaylaSings]

.. Want to add, I do sadly have doubt that it was ever just innocent friendship to him. And I think that's what hurts the most. I know he loves me for me, but he was sexually attracted first and had ulterior motives.. He only realized as we got closer how alike we were. At least it's coming out like that. I wish we could just be friends again all the time.

[movingon45]

Possibly he disappeared completely because he was truly your friend and knew that was best for you.

 

Or maybe he had to in order to deal with his own emotions.

 

Either way (and even if it's none of the above!), it's wonderful that you're putting the A to rest and, as your name says, "moving on!"

 

 

Well you're probably right because when I told him that for my mental health I'm ending our communication because I always feel that my life is worse after we text. He agreed that it's better that way if I feel that it's for my own good.

 

Whatever it was, whatever he's thinking I'm tired of second guessing so I'm trying to move on.

[Hope Shimmers]

I'm trying so hard to get to that point. I would LOVE to be able to say "he was my friend, I loved him, he loved me, but it didn't work". Or at least be able to say it without wanting to crumble because of the mess we've made of that friendship, and question whether anything was ever true in the first place.

 

It took me many years to get to that point. Or at least to get to that point without crumbling, as you said. And some days I still want to crumble, because I miss him.

 

The thing is, I KNOW it was true in the first place, and it was real, and I don't need to hate him or make him out to be the enemy or pretend that nothing was there, when I know better. I suspect the same is true with you.

[Hope Shimmers]

I'm so glad I found this place because I really felt like nobody else had any idea the things I was feeling.

 

People who haven't been in your shoes have no idea how you are feeling. It was one of the things that routinely upset me (earlier) on this forum, when the betrayed spouses needed to make blanket statements that "he never loved you, it was only sex, you were used, you are a whore" and so on and so forth. I finally learned that although that is true in some cases of affairs, it wasn't even close to true with mine and I am the only one qualified to know that. And I learned to understand that betrayed spouses in many cases need to believe that in order to move on. And I gained appreciation for their pain too.

 

I feel exactly like this so much.. If we had never crossed the line, what a special thing it was and how we can never ever get it back now. I had never met someone who I could relate to as much as this guy ever in my life. It was like meeting the male version of myself

 

Yes. But now that it's over you don't have to hate him or regret what happened. You can regret the process if it involved hurting others, but I don't ever regret loving him, and I know that to this day he loves me.

 

But I do grieve for the friendship, even though we are still friendly it will never be like it could have been if we had both just respected our spouses enough not to go there..

 

It may be different someday. Time changes a lot. Then again, maybe someday you won't care.

 

In my case, I still miss him, and it's been years. But it's better this way. He hates that I made this decision - to have no further contact. He had told me many times recently how he was such a selfish a**, how he hurt so many people by being selfish and pursuing what he wanted (me) when it could not happen. He is doing his utmost to be the best husband he can despite not being happy, and I support it, but I can no longer be his friend. This may have been the hardest thing, because he is devastated that we have lost contact. It needs to be that way though.

[movingon45]

 

In my case, I still miss him, and it's been years. But it's better this way. He hates that I made this decision - to have no further contact. He had told me many times recently how he was such a selfish a**, how he hurt so many people by being selfish and pursuing what he wanted (me) when it could not happen. He is doing his utmost to be the best husband he can despite not being happy, and I support it, but I can no longer be his friend. This may have been the hardest thing, because he is devastated that we have lost contact. It needs to be that way though.

 

How many years has it been? And may I ask why you decided to lose all contact?

[gettingstronger]

I finally learned that although that is true in some cases of affairs, it wasn't even close to true with mine and I am the only one qualified to know that. And I learned to understand that betrayed spouses in many cases need to believe that in order to move on. And I gained appreciation for their pain too.

 

 

The contradiction in these statements (some vs. many) show that like all of us its difficult for you to really put yourself on the other side-its not a slam, just an interesting observation that relates back to "were they our friends"-infidelity is so complex that not even those involved really fully know or understand what roles we play when and for how long-

[Ronnie33]

I'm so glad I found this place because I really felt like nobody else had any idea the things I was feeling. I feel exactly like this so much.. If we had never crossed the line, what a special thing it was and how we can never ever get it back now. I had never met someone who I could relate to as much as this guy ever in my life. It was like meeting the male version of myself and at very first, for me at least , it was totally platonic and innocent and I had no instant attraction to him. (he says otherwise for him but who knows)

I never ever thought Id cheat. When you think you Won't maybe that's when you let your guard down. I'm rambling.

 

But I do grieve for the friendship, even though we are still friendly it will never be like it could have been if we had both just respected our spouses enough not to go there..

 

I think we were really friends though. I do. In the beginning and I'm sure for most it's like that. The moment you realize it can never go further is when it all changes .. When you realize you are more than friends, that some of the stuff you are doing, you would never do to a friend! And then you realize that stage of the relationship is over. You can't get it back.

 

I feel like I could have wrote this.

[Hope Shimmers]

The contradiction in these statements (some vs. many) show that like all of us its difficult for you to really put yourself on the other side-its not a slam, just an interesting observation that relates back to "were they our friends"-infidelity is so complex that not even those involved really fully know or understand what roles we play when and for how long-

 

To be honest I don't see what I said as a contradiction, but I totally agree with you that it's almost impossible to put yourself on the other side.

 

One thing that has been apparent to me is that I have lost count of all the times I've been told over the years on this forum "He didn't really love you or he would not have treated you so badly". Yet I would never even dream to say to a betrayed spouse "He didn't really love you or he would not have treated you so badly". Now THAT is a contradiction.

 

The point goes back to the original post of this thread - that I think there is this natural tendency, or desire, to just assume that they never cared, and that there never was anything there.

 

I completely agree with you regarding the extreme complexity of affairs -

[Hope Shimmers]

How many years has it been? And may I ask why you decided to lose all contact?

 

It depends on where you start and stop counting... it took us so long to be involved at that level and then even longer to become un-involved. Most of the emotional upheaval of the affair was during 2007 through 2011 or 2012, although I have known him for many years longer than that.

 

The reason I stopped contact (only recently) is because - although there was absolutely nothing affectionate or out of line about our conversations, it was clear that it was still an emotional affair. He should be telling his wife the things he was sharing with me (when I told him that, he said "no - now I just won't have anyone to tell"). Uggh.

[Gunthar]

It took me many years to get to that point. Or at least to get to that point without crumbling, as you said. And some days I still want to crumble, because I miss him.

 

The thing is, I KNOW it was true in the first place, and it was real, and I don't need to hate him or make him out to be the enemy or pretend that nothing was there, when I know better. I suspect the same is true with you.

 

This is sooo close to 'dead-on' what I try to express.

 

It was true, and real. But in my case, she crumbles too easily and so has all kinds of defenses about me/"it". I'm the "enemy", when nothing had to change at all, but maybe our 'level' of involvement with each other.

 

They were our friends. Don't mind read yourself into something other than what you know you said/felt, and what they said/felt. After it blows up (dday), any sort of crazy rationalizations can come out and take over the direction of things. Keep it special, because it was (and still is as long as you hold it as such).

Edited May 16, 2014 by Gunthar

[Gunthar]

People who haven't been in your shoes have no idea how you are feeling. It was one of the things that routinely upset me (earlier) on this forum, when the betrayed spouses needed to make blanket statements that "he never loved you, it was only sex, you were used, you are a whore" and so on and so forth. I finally learned that although that is true in some cases of affairs, it wasn't even close to true with mine and I am the only one qualified to know that. And I learned to understand that betrayed spouses in many cases need to believe that in order to move on. And I gained appreciation for their pain too.

 

 

 

Yes. But now that it's over you don't have to hate him or regret what happened. You can regret the process if it involved hurting others, but I don't ever regret loving him, and I know that to this day he loves me.

 

 

 

It may be different someday. Time changes a lot. Then again, maybe someday you won't care.

 

In my case, I still miss him, and it's been years. But it's better this way. He hates that I made this decision - to have no further contact. He had told me many times recently how he was such a selfish a**, how he hurt so many people by being selfish and pursuing what he wanted (me) when it could not happen. He is doing his utmost to be the best husband he can despite not being happy, and I support it, but I can no longer be his friend. This may have been the hardest thing, because he is devastated that we have lost contact. It needs to be that way though.

 

I believe this is what my xAP thinks/feels too (sucks, but true). Aching to hear her say it (or something) to me. She wants me. I know. The contrived/forced withdrawal is deadening to us both. I don't understand how you do it. (sorry for the hijack - I'll PM you soon, Shimmers).

G

[PurpleCardigan]

I’m in a harsh spot since I, in part, think warmly (but from afar) of my exMM but also feel periodic anger and numbness towards him. In the past few weeks, I’ve seen the proof that he is master manipulator; it was all lies, and he was a serial cheater. So much for being his soul-mate! His wife lives in a world of equal manipulation and lies which is covered in a heaping dose of denial.

 

I think this is a different case than most affairs, although I could be wrong. The term sociopath has been thrown around for my ex. So for me, I don’t think we were ever friends since it was a relationship built on lies, lies of omission and complete deception. I was “friends” with the person that he presented himself to be, and I loved that person … but that was not the real guy. I don’t know that guy, so he’s not my friend and never was. I've gotten glimpses, and he's not a nice person. So for me, no, he was never my friend. That makes me sad, but it’s life. I will remember who he pretended to be, though.

 

It’s been a tough road these past few weeks learning and processing all of this. But I remain focused on my own self-care and healing which is coming. As others have said, having no contact truly does help as well as the desire/commitment to let go. Both have gotten me very, very far.