Positives of an affair

[DKT3]

Please publish the reference to the study that interviewed every single kid whose parents had ever had an A that shows 100% of them to be less happy / no happier than before, since you state it with such conviction despite others reporting for their own lived experience that they know it to be true. If you're accusing us of being liars, I'd love to see your evidence that you know more about our lives than we do.

 

Kids may be happier when fueding parents part, but what about an affair will please kids? To have one parent betray the other. Along side of that what lesson does it teach them? Do whatever you want no matter who it hurts as long as your happy.

 

We have come to a sad point in human developement.

[cocorico]

Kids may be happier when fueding parents part, but what about an affair will please kids?

 

From my own personal experience, I can report:

 

That they no longer have to live in an emotional war zone.

That they get to see a loving, caring, mutually respectful R modelled, rather than the toxic M being their only point of reference.

That they are included in a happy, healthy family unit post-split.

That they realise that unhealthy, unhappy Ms do not have to be a trap from which you cannot escape.

That security and stability post-split lessen their anxiety and depression, and allow them to function better at school and socially.

That they now have a home they're not ashamed to invite friends to visit.

That they no longer dread parents attending parents' evenings at school.

That they get to go out and do things as a family, instead of one parent yelling at the other about whose turn it is to sort the kids out.

That they no longer feel responsible as yet another demand on stressed emotional resources of unhappy parents.

That their worst fears prove groundless, removing the axe hanging over their heads.

That they can be kids again, instead of mini-peacekeepers.

That they know where they stand, instead of tip-toeing around on eggshells.

That they can visit their grandparents, aunts & uncles and cousins again, without being made to feel they are betraying the other parent who wants to minimise or eradicate contact with "those people".

That they get to choose which parent they wish to stay with, when, and for how long.

That they can play modern music in the house.

That they get a healthy, varied, more interesting diet, instead of just pork chops and oven chips every night.

That people actually speak to each other, rather than locking themselves away in their respective bedrooms.

That evenings involve interaction, not just zoning out in front of the TV.

That they're given attention, love, guidance, time, caring, and interest, instead of just things.

That conceptual possibilities open up to them concerning their own futures, instead of them being held captive by the need to survive a stressful present.

 

Is that enough to be going on with, or shall I continue?

[QuakerOats]

From my own personal experience, I can report:

 

That they no longer have to live in an emotional war zone.

That they get to see a loving, caring, mutually respectful R modelled, rather than the toxic M being their only point of reference.

That they are included in a happy, healthy family unit post-split.

That they realise that unhealthy, unhappy Ms do not have to be a trap from which you cannot escape.

That security and stability post-split lessen their anxiety and depression, and allow them to function better at school and socially.

That they now have a home they're not ashamed to invite friends to visit.

That they no longer dread parents attending parents' evenings at school.

That they get to go out and do things as a family, instead of one parent yelling at the other about whose turn it is to sort the kids out.

That they no longer feel responsible as yet another demand on stressed emotional resources of unhappy parents.

That their worst fears prove groundless, removing the axe hanging over their heads.

That they can be kids again, instead of mini-peacekeepers.

That they know where they stand, instead of tip-toeing around on eggshells.

That they can visit their grandparents, aunts & uncles and cousins again, without being made to feel they are betraying the other parent who wants to minimise or eradicate contact with "those people".

That they get to choose which parent they wish to stay with, when, and for how long.

That they can play modern music in the house.

That they get a healthy, varied, more interesting diet, instead of just pork chops and oven chips every night.

That people actually speak to each other, rather than locking themselves away in their respective bedrooms.

That evenings involve interaction, not just zoning out in front of the TV.

That they're given attention, love, guidance, time, caring, and interest, instead of just things.

That conceptual possibilities open up to them concerning their own futures, instead of them being held captive by the need to survive a stressful present.

 

Is that enough to be going on with, or shall I continue?

 

 

 

With all due respect, as I am also a former OW, wouldn't ALL the things on the list be true and better achieved by an unhappy married couple being honest with each other and divorcing and then tactfully introducing kids to their new partners in an age appropriate way? I'm just not seeing how the things you've listed have anything to do with an affair. I suppose you are saying that the affair ultimately broke down a doomed marriage and now all are happier with new partners. Still, isn't that better achieved when a married couple go through the process of divorce and healing before taking on new partners, and especially introducing them to kids?

[Bittersweetie]

Some have referenced learning from the mistakes of an A...I just want to say my A was no mistake. It was a choice I made. A poor, selfish, and hurtful choice.

 

You could say that my H and I's relationship is much better now than it was before the A. You could also say that I am a much healthier and more compassionate person than I was before the A. Those two things are true.

 

However, that doesn't make my A positive in any way shape or form. I made a choice that hurt people. My husband made a big decision based on a lie. Nothing positive about that.

 

There were times after d-day I wished I could go back and change things. But I decided that wasn't a positive outlet for my energy...instead I decided to move forward and take steps for myself not to make such a hurtful choice again. My H decided to move forward also, and change the parts of him and our relationship that he had control over.

 

We are in a better place now than we were 6 years ago. But I correlate that to the work we both did on us and our relationship; not to the A. I can say with certainty that there was nothing positive about my A.

[83cj]

Having an affair gave me the courage and perspective to leave an abusive marriage to an alcoholic. In an ideal world, I would not have been so isolated and I would have had friends or family who were aware or supportive. Or maybe I would have found the strength and perspective on my own or otherwise just handled it better. But that is the nature of being in a controlling, abusive, volatile, dangerous relationship - I was isolated, manipulated, fearful, and full of self-doubt.

 

I don't regret it - kids and me are better off now. I don't claim the affair was the "right" thing to do, but it was the help I needed to get out of a dangerous and unhealthy situation. It's having long-reaching positive effects. I don't think I would have been able to leave without the non-judgmental love, support, and assistance of the AP.

 

I'm sure I've seen at least one other poster around here who had an affair when he was in an abusive relationship and it was an exit affair. I think he said he married the AP and was happy. That's someone who also felt it was a positive or had positive effects/outcomes.

[KaliLove]

Of course there are ways to learn lessons that don't involve hurting other people. But since we live in the real world, where people get hurt, sometimes the best we can do is make mistakes and learn from them.

 

I don't know you either Kali, obviously, and there was nothing defensive about explaining the point which you seemed to miss - since you replied directly to me in the thread first. I have nothing against you either, other than I think that people who haven't been on either side of an A can't understand it in the same way that others can. Just my opinion.

 

I didn't mean to quote your post in my first response. I have no idea why it did that.

 

Thank you again for the condescension..much appreciated.

 

I just don't think it's a good idea to try to find positive things about affairs when they affect so many people so negatively. There are a lot of people here who are still trying to get out of their affairs or over them and I don't think encouraging them by telling them how great you think affairs are is a good idea. Although most of the posts on this thread don't have anything good to say about them anyway.

 

I also don't understand how people who have been hurt, yourself included, can still defend cheating. But, as you said, I've never been on the other side, and I NEVER will..so perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Edited May 20, 2014 by KaliLove

[fellini]

It's a huge leap, and actually, it's a deliberate attempt at misreading, to say that if someone finds themselves in an A, ends it, learns from it, that this is not a good thing.

 

It's completely unreasonable to jump on someone's experience and say, wow, you got away with it, you'll do it again. THIS NEGATES ENTIRELY THE MAIN POINT OF "LEARNING FROM IT"

 

If people cannot handle that someone has the opinion that they have learned from a brief affair, turn back to the marriage, and focus on improving that, then JUST SAY SO!

 

But it seems to me that if someone cannot HANDLE an idea, because it goes against your PERSONAL VALUES, you accept that, and move on, but you do not have the right to deliberately misread and misinterpret and be sarcastic in your opinion and suggest things were said that the poster did not say.

 

 

 

So I guess the next time your husband and you have any other difficulties in order to make everything positive for him you will have another affair and not tell him. You will do it again because you got away with it this time. Once you finally get caught and he realizes how deceived he has been it will be interesting to see how grateful he is for how you helped his marriage. Hope you will come back and tell everyone how grateful he is

[soccerrprp]

I don't personally see where the OP used it as an 'excuse'. Would it be better if people didn't learn and grow from their experiences? I don't see how it's arrogant to recognize that. To me it seems more arrogant not to.

 

People are always going to make decisions that they may regret, for one reason or another, later on. If they don't use the opportunity to learn from it, change won't occur.

 

Not every situation is all good or all bad. Positives can come from bad decisions and experiences, too.

 

The heck she didn't. Her post is about finding justification for the affair. What post did you read?

 

Of course every experience is a way to learn. I don't doubt, nor dismiss this. My beef is with the logic the OP used to help her feel better about her affair. About affairs in general. She was hoping to convince us that affairs are okay sometimes...you think it is?

 

Yes, positives can come out of bad decisions. Bad decisions almost always hurt others. Shall I list a number of names of EVIL people who did some enormous wickedness and share the good it came out of them. Easily done.

 

And this notion that not all situations are good or bad...how simplistic. There are plenty of BAD situations...no sugar coating it...bad is bad. There are good situations...good is good. I have experienced plenty GOOD and a smattering of bad. If you're suggesting that learning from the bad is the good of it, well, okay, but it doesn't and didn't make that situation any less bad.

 

I've heard and continue to hear people say things like my experience has made me stronger, the person I am now. As long as we learn from that experience and not repeat it, fantastic! I hear people say I don't regret the past...what??? Is this reality or denial? Sh*tty things happen and they are just that, sh*tty. Accept that it was, don't diminish that it was or that you effed-up, and simply move on.

 

But, again, the OP's logic stinks.

[fellini]

The heck she didn't. Her post is about finding justification for the affair. What post did you read?

 

No actually you are wrong. The OP makes it very clear what she learned WELL INTO the A. She does not say she created the A in order to "find out" things about her husband, or any other thing she learned. She is REFLECTING BACK on her A, and this is really really important.

 

That anyone can get something positive from an A in terms of personal growth does NOT negate that they also did destructive things.

[fellini]

I am seeing my H in a different light.

 

Now he does not know of the affair so he doesn't need to spend the next 5 years getting over it and I feel it's now in the pass and we can move forward.

 

This is precisely the discovery that I wish my WS had had, rather than telling me about her A and essentially getting me to deal with her problem and take the reins deciding if we should move forward or separate. Now I get I don't know how many years of angst because she couldn't handle her own sh-t, figure out what had to be done, and get back into the very structure: our marriage, that we are in now.

[Owl]

This is precisely the discovery that I wish my WS had had, rather than telling me about her A and essentially getting me to deal with her problem and take the reins deciding if we should move forward or separate. Now I get I don't know how many years of angst because she couldn't handle her own sh-t, figure out what had to be done, and get back into the very structure: our marriage, that we are in now.

 

I don't get this.

 

If she couldn't "handle her own ****"...it was bound to bleed over into your marriage anyway.

 

How would her keeping it a secret have made your marriage any better?

[soccerrprp]

No actually you are wrong. The OP makes it very clear what she learned WELL INTO the A. She does not say she created the A in order to "find out" things about her husband, or any other thing she learned. She is REFLECTING BACK on her A, and this is really really important.

 

That anyone can get something positive from an A in terms of personal growth does NOT negate that they also did destructive things.

 

I must not be making myself clear. Again, I did not say that she created the affair and of course she is looking back at the positives. But, she is, in her way justifying it by looking at the positives OF AN AFFAIR. I question her over-all logic, not that she took something good out of an affair that undermined trust, honesty, boundaries, etc.

[Ailsa1983]

Haven't read the posts

 

The only positive from our A was the sex, there was lots of it and we explored many different techniques, something neither of us had done with our spouses. This in return made me realise I'm a lot more sexually active than I ever thought I was, my xhusband could never compete with my libido not was he interested in exploration.

 

However the only positive does not compare to the negatives of the A I was/am still in shock about how easily deceitful and sneaky I became throughout the A, I could have a 5 hour sex session with xMM and come home like I haven't done anything, the same goes for him. We definitely learned to compartmentalise too easily, we had sex at least 4/5 times per week which was more than myself and xHusband had in a month (even from the beginning of out relationship) I would also like to say that myself and xH did not have sex for 2 years prior to my A. xMM did not have sex with his wife either for sometime before our A started either (came from his wife's mouth on D-Day)

[Hope Shimmers]

Hope, I now understand why we butt heads, we are polar opposite in this whole infidelity thing. I believe in owning your *****.

DKT3, I am totally against A's, and I completely own my **** (You have five astericks, not four, so I'm not really sure what word you are referring to there). You don't know me at all. I can't believe how you can think that just because I learned from my own mistakes, that I did not own my ****. People here who have read my past posts know better.

[Hope Shimmers]

She was hoping to convince us that affairs are okay sometimes...you think it is?

 

No, I don't. And that's not how I read the post. You just chose to interpret it negatively, and I didn't.

[Hope Shimmers]

There are a lot of people here who are still trying to get out of their affairs or over them and I don't think encouraging them by telling them how great you think affairs are is a good idea. Although most of the posts on this thread don't have anything good to say about them anyway.

 

I also don't understand how people who have been hurt, yourself included, can still defend cheating. But, as you said, I've never been on the other side, and I NEVER will..so perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

For crying out loud Kali, where did I EVER say how great A's are? You have NO idea the hell I went through to get out of mine. None. So please just stop putting words in my mouth.

 

What I said was that in this point in my life, I can see a positive in that I have learned not to make the same mistake again. WHERE does that translate to say that I think A's are wonderful or that I defend cheating? Exactly the opposite.

 

You NEVER know Kali, how things might change in the future, as many people have said what you did and then gone on to do something completely different. I don't know you, so to me you are just one of the many. So let's agree to disagree, and please stop being so sensitive to my posts. I'm not posting to you, or to trigger you. Thanks.

[fellini]

I don't get this.

 

If she couldn't "handle her own ****"...it was bound to bleed over into your marriage anyway.

 

How would her keeping it a secret have made your marriage any better?

9

Because KNOWING what one has to do and actually doing it are not about the same thing.

She found out exactly what she neededto know in her affair, so she should have ended it, and done the job she needed to do to be back in the marriage. None of that had anything significantly to do with me. It was all about her switching her core values.

 

Her problem of not ending her affair even though she knows she must, has nothing to do with my need to know or not to know.

 

Had it been me, i would have ended the A or ended the marriage. She refused to do either.

[Hope Shimmers]

9

Because KNOWING what one has to do and actually doing it are not about the same thing.

She found out exactly what she neededto know in her affair, so she should have ended it, and done the job she needed to do to be back in the marriage. None of that had anything significantly to do with me. It was all about her switching her core values.

 

Her problem of not ending her affair even though she knows she must, has nothing to do with my need to know or not to know.

 

Had it been me, i would have ended the A or ended the marriage. She refused to do either.

 

So you're saying that it wasn't about telling versus not telling, but having made the decision that the A should end and she wanted to stay in the marriage before telling you. I haven't been in your shoes, but I would think it would be a lot harder to take, hearing about it when she was still in angst and not having made decisions to get out of her situation. It would put you in a position of not knowing which direction to go with your M.

[carhill]

Main positives for myself were:

 

1. Focused the marital issues and impressed upon myself the value of MC in addressing them.

 

2. Overcame my fear of hurting people and of failing by divorcing. Most of those fears were addressed and processed in MC.

 

Had I not had an EA, I'm confident my exW would have divorced me anyway, knowing what I know now; however, I doubt I would have learned anything positive from the experience, rather have gone on blissfully ignorant and wondering why such things happen to me in life. I learned why and took control of choices. Life is far better, and more positive, now. It's never too late to make changes, and grow, until one's dead. Live in the now.

[AmyBamy]

Having an affair gave me the courage and perspective to leave an abusive marriage to an alcoholic. In an ideal world, I would not have been so isolated and I would have had friends or family who were aware or supportive. Or maybe I would have found the strength and perspective on my own or otherwise just handled it better. But that is the nature of being in a controlling, abusive, volatile, dangerous relationship - I was isolated, manipulated, fearful, and full of self-doubt.

 

I don't regret it - kids and me are better off now. I don't claim the affair was the "right" thing to do, but it was the help I needed to get out of a dangerous and unhealthy situation. It's having long-reaching positive effects. I don't think I would have been able to leave without the non-judgmental love, support, and assistance of the AP.

 

I'm sure I've seen at least one other poster around here who had an affair when he was in an abusive relationship and it was an exit affair. I think he said he married the AP and was happy. That's someone who also felt it was a positive or had positive effects/outcomes.

 

Good for you. My exMM was also in an abusive relationship. His wife wasn't beating him or an alcoholic but she wanted only parts of marriage that she wanted and wanted to be able to lock him in with no concern to his needs. So emotionally abusive and neglectful and selfish. There are so many people like you and him out there that can't, for whatever reason, "just divorce" and choose an affair which then gives them the power to see that they can leave. This is definitely the most positive example I can think of.

 

I didn't have an affair, but my ex husband's affair allowed me to give myself permission to leave our abusive and unfulfilling marriage. I have never regretted leaving and I'm not sure I would have ever left had he not had an affair. So yes I am thankful for his affair because it gave me something I felt gave me a real reason to leave. As a society we are trained that we aren't supposed to be happy that we should settle in for the long haul and once married that's it no matter the state of the marriage. I will not live that way again it's the most ridiculous thing to stay miserable because at one point in time you vowed to. Things change, people change. Not everyone makes it to 50 year wedding anniversary. So what. Life is fluid and ever changing and happiness is important. Those who cling to misery deserve it imo.

[AmyBamy]

Main positives for myself were:

 

1. Focused the marital issues and impressed upon myself the value of MC in addressing them.

 

2. Overcame my fear of hurting people and of failing by divorcing. Most of those fears were addressed and processed in MC.

 

Had I not had an EA, I'm confident my exW would have divorced me anyway, knowing what I know now; however, I doubt I would have learned anything positive from the experience, rather have gone on blissfully ignorant and wondering why such things happen to me in life. I learned why and took control of choices. Life is far better, and more positive, now. It's never too late to make changes, and grow, until one's dead. Live in the now.

 

Well said! Looking back now I can't believe how afraid of divorce I was. How I thought it reflected on me as a person and indicated some deep flaw within myself that I wasn't able to make a square peg fit in a round hole. How I envy those who are lucky enough to luck into a good match and marry young and make it work for 50 years. But how often does that even happen? And I don't think that those people are more caring or better people bc they made it work, I think they just got lucky and found a really good match for themselves. Most of us end up with people that if we gave it a few years we probably wouldn't even consider for a ONS let alone marriage. And when those huge differences inevitably show themselves we feel like we have to stay because we MARRIED. It's so crazy how we as a society insinuate that getting a divorce is a failure when all it is really is the realization that you didn't make that great of a choice and it's beyond patching it up.

 

I breathe so much easier nowadays. I'm not afraid of someone cheating on me bc I've been there. I'm not afraid of breaking up or divorcing because I've been there. When you haven't experienced it and it's unknown it seems like a horror movie. But then it happens and it's meh. I mean, sure it's shocking and hurts but it didn't kill me. Hell it didn't even slow me down really. I had built it up so much in my head that the reality of it was actually pleasantly surprising. I've dealt with far worse and probably will again in life. This in comparison is peanuts and the least of my worries in this life.

 

I will say it til the day I die. My ex husband having an affair was the ****ing best thing that he ever did for me. Me getting a divorce is still the best decision I have ever made. I run into my ex husband nowadays and I can't even believe I dated him, let alone married him. I wouldn't give him two seconds of my time now. How I have changed from my young adult years to my middle age years. It's a wonder we made it the 10 years we did! He is happy in his new life and I am happy in my new life. We would NOT be happy together. The big picture sometimes takes a little pain to see. A moment's pain for a lifetime of pleasure? I will take it!

[Hope Shimmers]

Good for you. My exMM was also in an abusive relationship. His wife wasn't beating him or an alcoholic but she wanted only parts of marriage that she wanted and wanted to be able to lock him in with no concern to his needs. So emotionally abusive and neglectful and selfish. There are so many people like you and him out there that can't, for whatever reason, "just divorce" and choose an affair which then gives them the power to see that they can leave. This is definitely the most positive example I can think of.

 

I didn't have an affair, but my ex husband's affair allowed me to give myself permission to leave our abusive and unfulfilling marriage. I have never regretted leaving and I'm not sure I would have ever left had he not had an affair. So yes I am thankful for his affair because it gave me something I felt gave me a real reason to leave. As a society we are trained that we aren't supposed to be happy that we should settle in for the long haul and once married that's it no matter the state of the marriage. I will not live that way again it's the most ridiculous thing to stay miserable because at one point in time you vowed to. Things change, people change. Not everyone makes it to 50 year wedding anniversary. So what. Life is fluid and ever changing and happiness is important. Those who cling to misery deserve it imo.

 

It is nice to see a BS who is not antagonistic and pessimistic toward people on the other side. And who can see that positive things DO come from bad decisions sometimes.

 

My marriage was hell. I walked on eggshells all the time and was so unhappy for 16 years, but he threatened me about leaving. I was so beat down I believed him, after years of being beat up mentally and physically. I considered having an A because I was so desperately unhappy but I didn't (I am so glad I didn't - that would have made him the "innocent BS" - sorry, but he deserved anything that happened to him). He in fact is the one who had the A just before I left, but by then all I wanted was out. It was hard but well worth it. If I would have had an A in the marriage it might have sped that up, but it was just the wrong decision for me. Certainly his A sped things up for me to get out of an already crappy situation.

[Darren Steez]

Learning to make a different decision the next time.

 

An affair is not a decision. It's a series of decisions based on dishonesty. Refusal to then let an unaware spouse is further dishonesty. Each time she thinks about the affair there after it's another decision. A life time of decisions not tell.

 

Honesty is the only right decision, thenceforth they can work on their issues so that next time, if it happens, she can then make the right decision.

[Hope Shimmers]

An affair is not a decision. It's a series of decisions based on dishonesty. Refusal to then let an unaware spouse is further dishonesty. Each time she thinks about the affair there after it's another decision. A life time of decisions not tell.

 

Honesty is the only right decision, thenceforth they can work on their issues so that next time, if it happens, she can then make the right decision.

 

Excuse me. Replace what I said with "make a SERIES of different decisions". Yes, honesty is the only right decision, which is what I said.

 

I do not understand why my post triggered so many people. I thought the BSs wanted people to learn from their mistakes.

 

I don't know who "she" is in your scenario, but I am not married, and my ex-MM was separated and they were both dating other people when I met him.

[fellini]

So you're saying that it wasn't about telling versus not telling, but having made the decision that the A should end and she wanted to stay in the marriage before telling you. I haven't been in your shoes, but I would think it would be a lot harder to take, hearing about it when she was still in angst and not having made decisions to get out of her situation. It would put you in a position of not knowing which direction to go with your M.

 

Still there more or less. She is very clear, but its hard to take seriously a spouse who spent 2 years hiding a man, then shifted into verbal lie mode and then 9 months of trickle truthing.

 

One wants to believe .... but the cost at such an ealy stage!