Borrowed Money Etiquette

[CaliGypsy]

I go to bed, wake up and there are 5+ more pages. I think Phoe has clearly stated she has gotten the advice she needs.

 

Why is everyone still trying to help her, FIX her, and figure out what's the deal with her bf? Perhaps Phoe should start a new thread for that if she wants us to help her with that?

 

 

Because people really like her and are trying hard to advise her based on their life experiences. Unfortunately (?) most of us need to learn things the hard way, through our own experiences. Phoe loves this man. Until she doesn't, I don't think she's going to see things the way outsiders do.

 

Phoe, I am sad that he didn't respect what you did for him by paying you back ASAP . It puts you in a hella awkward position having to ask for the money back.

I will also say this. A person who makes the kind of mean jokes that are knowingly hurtful rarely change. My ex husband thought it was hilarious to tell people "we had to get married" the last time he said it we had been married over 25 years and he knew very well that I told him numerous times I found it hurtful and not funny. I'm a smart ass straight up. However, if I joked around about something and my partner told me it was construed as hurtful and not funny you better bet I'm not going to forget.

[William]

Thread starter, it appears you've received a lot of advice here and we're going to give this thread a rest pending any updates from you. Use the 'alert us' button to contact moderation should you wish to re-open this thread and please confine discussion of this topic, apparently about borrowing/lending money, to this thread. Thanks!

 

 

Edited to add, pursuant to a request from the thread starter, thread re-opened with a request to remain topical and respectful in your comments.

Edited May 20, 2014 by William
Thread re-opened

[Phoe]

Alright. I'm going to address some of the previous posts and then the discussion is over, other than posts that are purely on topic.

 

I'm pretty much furious at the ridiculous turn the thread has taken.

 

 

Given that I live in a meth-infested area, I've watched friends go down the path of meth. I KNOW what meth use looks like, firsthand. He is NOT on drugs. If he's not at work or with me, he's sleeping.

 

 

My mother used drugs all my childhood. I always could tell. Drug use is NOT something that would slip by me.

 

 

Contrary to the belief that I am incapable of having serious discussions with him (some rich accusations there), He and I had a discussion regarding drug use early on. Neither of us use drugs.

 

 

He's not on drugs. He's not a drinker. He's not seeing hookers or cheating or spending his money on other women. He's not gambling. I know where he is at ALL times. There is never a moment where his whereabouts are unknown and YES I have proof of all of this, and NO there has never been even the slightest doubt in my mind about any of that. I TRUST HIM.

 

 

Up until about a month ago, his money was just fine. He made it by no problem. He NEVER had to borrow money, never struggled, always treated me when we were out on dates. Him having issues with making the $900 a week work was NONEXISTENT until a few weeks ago. And once he's caught up from the financial emergency of a few weeks ago, his paycheck will go back to being more than sufficient.

 

 

His car broke down. He had to pay for repairs on it, then gave it to his uncle, and bought a different truck. THAT truck then also broke down, he had to pay for repairs on that. He was paying for the repairs of 2 vehicles and the purchase of one of those vehicles ALL at the same point in time, right when his paycheck got delayed.

 

 

He's been giving money to both his uncles and his mother. He pays all the rent and utilities for him and his mom. She does not work.

 

 

He has credit card debt from poor spending in his early 20's. He's still working on paying all that off.

 

 

Then there is is storage and pawn shop bills. YES I HAVE PHYSICALLY SEEN the storage pod bill and have been to the pawn shops with him and have SEEN the items.

 

 

YES I physically saw the item that was returned to the store. He did not steal it. How incredibly offensive. The item was a gift for me that he realized should wait until later. HE DOES NOT STEAL. He actually used to work asset protection for that very store. One time when we were there, he noticed someone stealing a cart of baby diapers. He chased the guy down in the parking lot, convinced him to come back in, and then proceeded to buy the whole cart for him.

 

 

He is planning on buying food this weekend and cooking my meals for the weekend since I will be working the whole weekend.

 

 

Now that I have laid to rest the absolutely absurd accusations that have cropped up, I expect there will be no further discussion of the sort. I hope any further replies will be purely about the topic, and not any wild speculation about my relationship. If anyone has anything further to say that is off topic, message me privately. This thread is not the place for it.

 

 

 

PLEASE keep things civil and on topic from here on out

[2sunny]

Ok then.

 

You asked about borrowing money etiquette.

 

When borrowed, the one who borrows should pay it all back when agreed.

 

If not they have made them self the liar and not worthy of being trusted.

 

That is the basis of the question you asked.

[somedude81]

Phoe, standing up for herself. Nicely done

 

Glad to hear about meth not being an issue. Truthfully I was worried.

 

Have you asked him to pay you back all the money he owes you on his next paycheck?

Edited May 21, 2014 by somedude81

[Valen]

I haven't kept up to date, but did he ever gave you that engagement ring? If so, maybe it's time to pawn it. If he ask you why, say "Hey, I gotta eat."

[William]

I haven't kept up to date, but did he ever gave you that engagement ring? If so, maybe it's time to pawn it. If he ask you why, say "Hey, I gotta eat."

You may find the answer here.

 

Tip: Use 'thread search', select 'advanced', input user 'Phoe' and text 'engagement' and review results. It takes less than 10 seconds.

 

Folks, you heard from the thread starter and moderation re-opened the thread at her request to work the issues. Arguing with her about the facts of her relationship or preaching to her will only get you moderated. Engage her and help her. That's what LoveShack is about. Thanks!

[FitChick]

I'm still waiting to hear why he sleeps on the floor and has a bed in storage. Why doesn't he store his stuff at home, at his mother's house and at his uncle's house? He could sell a lot on craigslist as well. Then he'd be able to repay you.

[Els]

Okay, so, related to the topic. Given that he definitely has enough assets/money to pay you back (especially if he sells off that extra car and motorcycle in storage...), just ask him to because otherwise you won't have enough to pay your own bills.

 

Is there an issue with that simple solution that prompted this thread?

[Phoe]

I'm still waiting to hear why he sleeps on the floor and has a bed in storage. Why doesn't he store his stuff at home, at his mother's house and at his uncle's house? He could sell a lot on craigslist as well. Then he'd be able to repay you.

 

He never planned to live here long. He planned to go back to his hometown. Then he met me and his plans for leaving changed.

 

 

The storage is in his hometown 2 hours away.

 

 

He works 6 days a week, 10 hour days. Add in driving and he's gone from home from 5 am until 7 pm. He has NO time to go down to his hometown and transfer all his storage up here. I don't even know HOW he will move the car. It doesn't run.

 

 

He has talked about selling some of the stuff. He has also talked about selling the motorhome. I talked about having a yardsale since I have lots of stuff around the house anyway, and he figured he would join in if I did that.

 

 

But I don't have time to plan a yardsale, and he doesn't have time to get all that stuff out of storage. Even if he did find a day to get everything up here, then he'd have to find time to actually sell it. It's hard to sell something to someone when you are not home between 5 am - 7 pm. He was in school until 9 pm up until last week, now school's out for summer, so at least that's a little more time he has.

 

 

Besides, selling his stuff to repay me is pointless. By the time anything gets sold, he'll already have gotten his paycheck.

 

 

This isn't a matter of him perpetually having issues, week after week. It's a matter of him having had a stack of emergencies pop up all at once, and now he's taken a few weeks to play catch up on all that. He's just about caught up now. He's also getting a big raise at work next week and may be taking on even more hours.

[Phoe]

Okay, so, related to the topic. Given that he definitely has enough assets/money to pay you back (especially if he sells off that extra car and motorcycle in storage...), just ask him to because otherwise you won't have enough to pay your own bills.

 

Is there an issue with that simple solution that prompted this thread?

 

He will NEVER sell that car or motorcycle.

 

 

That car is his baby. It's very old, collectible.

 

 

The motorcycle he is going to fix up and keep as a backup. When he was having vehicle issues he was very irritated that he did not have the motorcycle up here and that he had no way to get it up here.

 

 

 

 

Besides, as mentioned above, if by some miracle he found the time to get all that up here and sell it, he'd already have been paid by then anyway. His paycheck will be in his hand in 48 hours.

 

 

And, like I've mentioned SEVERAL times, his paycheck not lasting has not been an ongoing issue. For the past 6 months it was more than good enough for him to take care of all necessities, take care of his mom, and treat me. It has only been the past month or so, thanks to the number of sudden vehicle bills, occurring at the exact same moment that his paycheck got delayed by a week, that this shortness of money issue occurred.

 

 

Now that everything is settled and he is getting all caught back up, he will soon be back to normal with his paychecks.

[Smilecharmer]

He will NEVER sell that car or motorcycle.

 

 

That car is his baby. It's very old, collectible.

 

 

The motorcycle he is going to fix up and keep as a backup. When he was having vehicle issues he was very irritated that he did not have the motorcycle up here and that he had no way to get it up here.

 

 

 

 

Besides, as mentioned above, if by some miracle he found the time to get all that up here and sell it, he'd already have been paid by then anyway. His paycheck will be in his hand in 48 hours.

 

 

And, like I've mentioned SEVERAL times, his paycheck not lasting has not been an ongoing issue. For the past 6 months it was more than good enough for him to take care of all necessities, take care of his mom, and treat me. It has only been the past month or so, thanks to the number of sudden vehicle bills, occurring at the exact same moment that his paycheck got delayed by a week, that this shortness of money issue occurred.

 

 

Now that everything is settled and he is getting all caught back up, he will soon be back to normal with his paychecks.

 

Then everything is resolved. He will give you the money when he can. Can you go to a food bank in your area until your next payday? Do you have family you could ask for help?

[Phoe]

Then everything is resolved. He will give you the money when he can. Can you go to a food bank in your area until your next payday? Do you have family you could ask for help?

 

Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, everything is resolved.

 

 

I talked to him about the issue, it's being worked on, and now I just wait a few days.

 

 

I'm not starving or remotely dire enough to go to a food bank. I still have $30 in checking and the $20 he gave me yesterday. I have a few packs of ramen (found some meatballs in the freezer, that actually made a pretty yummy meal paired with ramen), instant oatmeal for the mornings, and applesauce for snacks.

 

 

I just worry being so close to $0 with only non-nutritious food available. Not so great for my health.

 

 

It's just a few days. And he's making it up to me over the weekend, he's gonna do a grocery shop and cook me up all my meals since I have to work 9 days straight.

[somedude81]

Why not just dipping into savings so you can eat?

 

There is no need to suffer.

 

That's what an emergency fund is for. The situation you are in right now.

[Smilecharmer]

Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, everything is resolved.

 

 

I talked to him about the issue, it's being worked on, and now I just wait a few days.

 

 

I'm not starving or remotely dire enough to go to a food bank. I still have $30 in checking and the $20 he gave me yesterday. I have a few packs of ramen (found some meatballs in the freezer, that actually made a pretty yummy meal paired with ramen), instant oatmeal for the mornings, and applesauce for snacks.

 

 

I just worry being so close to $0 with only non-nutritious food available. Not so great for my health.

 

 

It's just a few days. And he's making it up to me over the weekend, he's gonna do a grocery shop and cook me up all my meals since I have to work 9 days straight.

 

I agree, nutrition is very important so make sure you take care of yourself. Get plenty of calcium, protein (especially when working out) and vitamins from colorful veggies, even flash frozen will be better than nothing as it is cheaper. Birds Eye is really tasty and sometimes you can get them for pretty cheap. I like their broccoli spears and Brussels sprouts which I can get here in the south for less than a dollar. You are a young woman so you need to be very vigilant in taking care of your health, so many develop osteoporosis and do not even know it, Phoe.

[Koopa]

Ring Ring

 

BF: Hello?

 

Phoe: Hello is this BF?

 

BF: Yeah

 

Phoe: Hi this is Phoe calling from the bank of Phoe, I am calling because we noticed that you are late on your payments for a $200 loan you were approved for. Would you like to go ahead and pay this off?

 

BF: Oh I can't right now, but I get paid in a few days.

 

Phoe: OK thats fine but is there anything you can pay towards your account to prevent any future penalties?

 

BF: Penalties?

 

Phoe: Yes failure to pay could result in a hungry girlfriend, loss of bedroom activities and possibly a change in relationship status

 

BF: ... oh... uhhh I can give you some $$$ today

 

Phoe: Excellent you can make a payment at your nearest Bank of Phoe location, we appreciate your business. Have a nice day!

[Grumpybutfun]

I agree, nutrition is very important so make sure you take care of yourself. Get plenty of calcium, protein (especially when working out) and vitamins from colorful veggies, even flash frozen will be better than nothing as it is cheaper. Birds Eye is really tasty and sometimes you can get them for pretty cheap. I like their broccoli spears and Brussels sprouts which I can get here in the south for less than a dollar. You are a young woman so you need to be very vigilant in taking care of your health, so many develop osteoporosis and do not even know it, Phoe.

 

I agree with Smilecharmer. If you have carrots sauté them and put them in your ramen noodles with Chinese cabbage. Get a few apples or berries for your oatmeal just to add some nutrients. Nuts would be great too.

Didn't mean to make you mad, Phoe, just really concerned about you. I have daughters a few years younger than you and I guess I see how vulnerable they are and think of you that way. Seems like you have a lot in your past which should make you more street smart so I will STFU now.

I just want you to be safe and happy.

G

[KathyM]

You have savings, and you have a credit card, so you're in pretty good shape. There are plenty of people out there who use savings when there are unexpected expenses or when paychecks are delayed. Food banks and hitting up friends/family for loans is for people who have no other options. I have clients who have to resort to that, but they are truly broke with no job, no money, and no credit card. You have savings and a job and a credit card to hold you over until either you get paid or your boyfriend pays you what he owes you.

[2sunny]

Phoe -

 

I see you minimizing all of his baggage today.

 

I'm concerned that your not being honest with yourself and about the situation enough to get honest with him - enough to start standing up for yourself about what you need - about what is decent.

 

Will you at least try working on doing that FOR YOURSELF in your future.

 

I think it's important - as a 94 year old independent and strong woman once told me "take care of YOURSELF because it's likely no one else will".

 

If you're sacrificing your happiness and peace of mind - you're not taking care of yourself enough - and adjustments to your healthy boundary need to be readdressed.

Edited May 21, 2014 by 2sunny

[Medium.Lumo]

Haven't read all the replies in the thread but I'm sorry you are in this situation, Phoe.

 

What I don't understand is how you get down to $40. I freak out if my balance goes down below $50,000.

 

I also pay all my soon to ex girlfriend's expenses and usually pay most of the event bills when I go out with my friends. And I'm 22.

 

On top of this my girlfriend borrowed $600 which I don't really expect back after I break up with her but oh well, what can you do ?

 

 

I've never been in a situation likes this, so I need some help on what to do.

 

 

 

I let my boyfriend borrow a couple hundred dollars 2 weeks back. His bank account got closed down, so his direct deposit paycheck didn't go through, so he had to wait about 5 more days for his check to come to him on paper. He had bills due, so I paid his bills and gave him gas money so he could make it to work. He said "I'll pay you back when my check comes in", and I said OK.

 

 

3 paychecks later and he's clearly completely forgotten.

 

 

Unfortunately, I am now completely broke. I had to use my ENTIRE paycheck from friday to pay off my credit card bill (my credit card is what we used to pay his bills, they needed an immediate payment, cash or check would have taken too long).

 

 

So now I only have about $40 to last me the next 2 weeks until my next paycheck.

 

 

If I had a decent amount of money to last me til my next paycheck, I wouldn't be bothered. But right now my fridge is empty and my stomach is grumbling, and I'm trying to figure out what's the cheapest way to eat right now.

 

 

I don't know how to go to him about this. I don't want to seem like some penny-pincher who's counting every dime and nickel spent on him expecting it back.

 

 

I feel like right now, he's still struggling with money and may not have the money to pay me back. I bought dinner for us most of the week, he didn't have money.

 

 

A part of me feels like, because he did most of the paying for things in the first few months, the couple hundred towards his bills is just fair repayment and that things have evened out. It's not like he was expecting ME to pay him back for the dinners over the past few months, so I feel wrong expecting him to pay ME back for the borrowed money.

 

 

I just am worried about making it through the next 2 weeks and am confused about why he is still so broke. What I make in 1 month, he makes in 1 week. The money seems to have disappeared.

 

 

I guess what I am wondering is - should I let it go, or ask him for the borrowed money. If I should ask him, how should I go about doing it so as not to be insensitive?

[hoping2heal]

You shouldn't worry about appearing greedy or like a scorekeeper with someone who said they would pay you back.

 

I'm not sure I believe he's forgotten (I mean $20, OK but a few hundred? It's only been a few weeks). I think it is more probable that he is not going to say anything and hopes you do not either. If that's the case then there is a bigger issue at play but I digress.

 

So, you need to say something. Helping someone is wonderful, but it becomes a moot point when you are in no real, honest, position to help. If you are flat broke and left with a grumbly tummy? Not okay. You need your money back.

 

It is perfectly fine to broach the issue and speak up about what you need. You aren't in the wrong, being a bad person, a bad girlfriend, etc. Boyfriends should be expected to keep their word just any person on the street would (and moreso imo!!).

[Million.to.1]

Personally, if I were you, I would be concerned about a future with a guy who is as bad with money as your boyfriend is. He works hard and earns good money, but yet never has any?!? Has no savings? Never saves anything? just lives week to week? If he has "some depts" he is paying off, it must be an absolute huge amount of money if from $900 a week, after bills etc he is down to nothing.

A family of 4 could live off $900 a week.

 

Regardless of this situation, he is bad with money. You should ask him about his debt and how long that is going to mean he is living like this and what is plan is after.

 

How are the two of you ever going to have a future anything if you can't see past food for next week? This is crazy.

[2sunny]

Can you share with us why he pays for his Mom's expenses and why she doesn't work to support herself?

 

As a Mom I would feel terrible if my boys had to work and support me.

 

What does she do all day each day?

 

Will his support money to her end soon?

[contact1]

Hey Phoe,

 

First off I feel bad for you whenever you start a new thread. You'll post a pick and sure enough, it becomes the marathon of the 101 reasons you should leave your boyfriend.

 

I'm not posting here to point any of that out or to convince of such matters, the majority of the other posters have done more than their fair share on this. What I will give you is some advise about the finance aspects of all this, because I can relate to what your boyfriend is going through, money wise.

 

When I was young, just like him, I was really stupid with my money. I amounted a huge amount of debt and was barely making the minimum payments all my cards and loans. And just like him, I didn't want my significant other to know about it, because it is embarrassing.

 

My wife, back than and still now, was just like you, she had and still does have extremely good credit. She has only had one credit card, kept savings, paid off all her bills on time and etc. And me, I was the complete polar opposite. And just like you, she didn't really want to get into drilling me about my finance while we were dating.

 

However this all had to chance when we were starting to talk about marriage and having a future together in the long term. It mattered because my bad credit would become part of her credit once we were married. After having gone through everything, the best course of action was for me to go through bankruptcy, which I did, clearing out all the debt I had. My credit was already so bad, and the amount of time that it would have taken to pay off all the bills made it the best choice of a bad situation.

 

The reason I am going into all of this is the fact that your boyfriend is very gun ho in the whole marriage thing, and I feel you are seeing that in your future also (I'm aware of the whole you are waiting a certain amount of time before accepting an engagement). I feel it is extremely important that you sit down with him and seriously talk about the finance aspect. If he is truly in that mindset of wanting to marry you, he has to be willing and ready to let you know about his financial situation, because whatever that situation is, it will become part of you / both of yours situation.

 

And I'm not saying to find out what he owes and if it turns out to be a complete shell shock to just dump him. If the situation is truly really bad, the two of you may look in meeting with a financial adviser. His actions now with his money affects the future of the two of you. I can not stress this enough because financial reasons is one of the biggest reasons people end up separating.

 

I get why you loaned him the money, he needed help, you thought you would get the money back right away having known how much he gets paid, etc and it just didn't happen, stuff happens. Loaning money to relatives/boyfriends/friends is always a sticky situation. However, this financial aspect is really key here, and I can tell he is embarrassed by it when he had asked you to not go with him to the pawn shop (I think you said pawn shop) when he had to make a payment on something. Again, if this man is willing to marry you, he should be willing to share financial aspects with you, because it affects both of your futures. Sit him down, let him know that you are not going to be seeing him any less of a person or leaving the relationship because of it, but that it is important that you know what is going on, because both of your futures are in stake here, and you are here to help him through it, not judge him (I'm sure I'll get flamed for that comment but whatever).

 

If he doesn't open up to it, well I'll just say I would highly advise against going into any marriage without knowing the financial of your partner (again, I know you are not marrying him anytime soon, but it is such a huge thing). Take care of yourself.

 

 

PS: Oh, if you have any eggs, drop one while you are cooking the ramen noodles, I use to love doing that

[Medium.Lumo]

Here's what I think you guys should do.

 

Take any of his big ticket items, like the classic car, find out the value of it fully restored, and auction it. I know he likes it and all, but it's a potential money sink. Just get rid of it.

 

Get rid of the motorcycle. It might be handy but it's dangerous statistically.

 

Go ahead with your yard sale but be careful that you don't get short changed. Take pictures of all of the items separately and out them online on various sites. Try to maximise profit. Put high reserves on everything you auction, those big ticket items like the car.

 

Don't use the money to pay off the debt. Try to use it to put down money on your own place. Don't move in though - rent it out. If you are currently renting, stop. Move back into your parents or his parents and use the money from the apartment at rental to pay off the mortgage.

 

It might sound counter intuitive but paying off debts isn't ideal. You pay then off but then have no money and might have to run up debt again ... A vicious cycle. Rather invest in something that will have guaranteed returns and pay off the debt in time.

 

Get legally married.

 

And then open a joint account and make sure YOU are in control. Try to put away at least 20 percent before you look at anything else including expenses. If you can make this figure higher, do it. Do this no matter what. If you don't have enough to cover expenses then cut down on those items or services.

 

Take some of this money and start a portfolio, but not all high risk. Go for low risk but guaranteed returns. Also look at investing abroad. Some countries allow foreigners to buy government savings bonds - these are a very good idea for a multitude or reasons, just do your research first.

 

When you do get your own place, don't let him bring anything in. If you have accumulated items, take pictures of everything, put it all in a spreadsheet, go through each item and only bring things in that you have actually used in the last 6 months or will actually need. The rest of the stuff, sell.

 

I hope this helps you. You sound like a very sweet girl but things are not going well for you if you are down to $40.

 

If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Medium.Lumo