You can't out train a crap diet.

[thefooloftheyear]

We take your word for it

 

Dont...who cares?

 

A professional athlete has standards to adhere to and you can't really compare them to us mere civilians.

 

Sure, during the season these guys have scienced out diets and nutritional experts...During the other 6 months out of the year when they go back home to Alabama or Texas and start living somewhat normal lives again, do you think they really do all of the things they do during the season/training camp? Some do and some dont..

 

 

No but the vast majority of ordinary mortal souls have to watch what we eat and loveshack is created for us ordinary mortal souls. Not for professional athletes or freaks of nature.

 

No argument....I agree with what you are saying...Nowhere did I say anything about not watching what you eat...Of course its important and I live it every day, as I said..

 

But think of this for a minute....

 

Go to the local BK or McDonalds...Yep, you are going to find a bunch of lard asses and some skinny and even some well built people too....Do you really believe that every skinny or well built person that happens to be in one of those places just decided to try it out that day? And all of those people are now "freaks of nature"??

 

Whatever...we'll have to agree to disagree..

 

TFY

[Robert Z]

I don't think Starbucks is bad...the biggest killer is the calories in their drinks and pastries, but having worked there (Gained weight each time, LOL), I can say that nothing is processed and made with natural ingredients...but as I mentioned...it's the calories. Their salads and sandwiches are pretty healthy, but they are very pricey, so you're better off going to Trader Joes or something.

 

 

I was thinking of the pastry display at Starbucks. And I don't eat bread so their sandwiches are off limits for me too.

 

Another one is going to Shari's. Pies pies pies. Pies and shakes. Pies and burgers. Pies and fries. The place is a virtual death trap.

 

As far as people who can eat what they want, there is no substitute for quality food. If you think you can eat crap and be healthy, just wait. Your day of reckoning will come. You can't load your body with poisons and get away with it indefinitely.

[GoreSP]

More than you think...

 

TFY

 

Doubt it...

[thefooloftheyear]

Doubt it...

 

You want to make a bet? :laugh:

 

25 Athletes Who Love Fast Food | Bleacher Report

 

 

"Lochte ate McDonald's food for nearly every meal at the 2008 Olympics in Beijing and won four medals, including gold in the 200-meter backstroke."

 

 

Oh the horror......

 

TFY

[seekingpeaceinlove]

Thanks for starting this thread, OP! I'm feeling just like you right now, fit-fat. I lost some weight last year and have plateaued for a few months and now I'm afraid I may be gaining a little fat and it's solely due to not watching my diet. I'm in better shape than I have been in a long time (toned all over) but I notice my tummy a little bit looser than a few months ago and my face is not as thin though my weight is only about 5lbs up.

 

I've committed to eating clean consistently...can't let myself go back to being unfit and unhappy!

[GoreSP]

You want to make a bet? :laugh:

 

25 Athletes Who Love Fast Food | Bleacher Report

 

 

"Lochte ate McDonald's food for nearly every meal at the 2008 Olympics in Beijing and won four medals, including gold in the 200-meter backstroke."

 

 

Oh the horror......

 

TFY

 

25 athletes.

 

I wonder how many athletes we can count from all the pro sports, university and college athletes throughout the world.

 

Look up the definition for 'exception' please.

[thefooloftheyear]

25 athletes.

 

I wonder how many athletes we can count from all the pro sports, university and college athletes throughout the world.

 

Look up the definition for 'exception' please.

 

So they took a random sampling-it wouldnt be much fun reading about the 2,239 pro athletes who regularly eat junk food....Are you really prepared to say that there arent any more?

 

Whatever...You win,

 

I am going to order a pizza in your honor tonight, OK sweetie?? Then I am going for my max on the bench tomorrow..

 

TFY

[GoreSP]

aaaww sarcasm.

 

This is totally going to ruin my night.

 

not.

[Robert Z]

So they took a random sampling-

 

 

 

Random sample? It doesn't say that. It also states that many of these athletes like fast food on occasion. Your Olympian had to detox from burgers, others gained weight and had to give up fast food, another "athlete" listed is a race car driver, one was Babe Ruth, who was fat and died at age 53, and other examples include one photo of a basketball player once seen with a girl at a fast food joint.

 

 

If you think this makes some kind of point then I suggest that that you might want to consider that your diet is lacking nutrients critical to logic.

 

 

Note that Ruth was dead at the same age that I started doing hot young women on a regular basis again.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Robert Z

[thefooloftheyear]

Random sample? It doesn't say that. It also states that many of these athletes like fast food on occasion. Your Olympian had to detox from burgers, others gained weight and had to give up fast food, another "athlete" listed is a race car driver, one was Babe Ruth, who was fat and died at age 53, and other examples include one photo of a basketball player once seen with a girl at a fast food joint.

 

 

If you think this makes some kind of point then I suggest that that you might want to consider that your diet is lacking nutrients critical to logic.

 

 

Note that Ruth was dead at the same age that I started doing hot young women on a regular basis again.

 

 

Of course its a random sampling...Thats why the number was 25....Not 18. 37. 167. or whatever ...get it? Are you also prepared to say this study asked each and every athlete and they only came up with these guys/gals? LOL...

 

 

The fact that you dont know that a race car driver is a true athlete, shows your naivety on this subject...Try doing what Tony Stewart or Jeff Gordon does on Sunday and then talk to me...sheesh....

 

 

And do you really think that someone like Kevin Garnett or LeBron James is going to cause a scene by walking into a McDonalds? He has "people" just like anyone else does in the game...

 

Mickey Mantle was arguably the best athlete to ever play baseball..Did you ever hear of how that guy lived his life? And during that time, STILL was able to own everyone on the field?

 

Every year players get fined for doing illegal drugs....Pot, cocaine heroin, Steroids, you name it...And those are only the fraction that actually get caught...So are you prepared to say that a guy WILL do drugs(which hurt performance and will cause you to get a fine), but wont eat junk food or a pizza?...Really?

 

Its all about genetics...No two people are the same..And the fact that none of you get this is quite surprising...

 

Try again,Skippy...

 

TFY

Edited May 22, 2014 by thefooloftheyear

[RonaldS]

25 athletes.

 

I wonder how many athletes we can count from all the pro sports, university and college athletes throughout the world.

 

Look up the definition for 'exception' please.

 

I personally know tons of high level athletes. The exceptions would be the ones who eat clean.

 

Know why? They don't have to. They train and perform constantly, and burn through even the worst foods like they're not even there. Now, I'm not saying that they eat 10 donuts a day or McDonalds everyday. But they eat a lot more junk than you would suspect.

 

I posted this pic in another thread, but I'll throw it on here. It's my friend's trainer. He does physique competitions. In the weeks before a competition, he cuts way back on ALL food, good and bad.

 

Here's what he looks like at show time:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f4b9y5vnvlyoa4r/IMG_3421.jpg

 

But my friend always makes him cupcakes for after the events. She says it's nothing for him to sit there and eat 6 or 7 of them in one sitting. And she says sometimes he shows up at the gym with a footlong sub or some other crappy fast food.

 

Again, yes...you can't eat like that all the time, or have crappy food be your staple. But you can eat it with regularity, and a lot of high-level athletes do. Hell, I do, and I would put my body up against anybody's.

[GoreSP]

Fooloftheyear, the link you posted is not a study. It's an article that list 25 known athletes that eat junk food.

It's also not random because they picked known athletes.

 

It's in no way shape or form supporting your premise that an athlete can be successful while having an unbalanced diet. The fact you even think it does is baffling to me.

 

There's an entire discipline (it's called Sports Nutrition) that make sure athletes have a balanced diet when they are training for a competition.

 

So yeah, athletes will eat junk food sometimes - just like everyone else.

 

But when they are training for a competition, they have a very planned and must follow to the letter diet in order for their performance to be at its peak.

No athletes in their right minds is going to risk not performing their very best come competition time because of all the crap they are during their training camps.

 

 

I never argued that some people have kickass genetics and somehow have a crap diet and still are kickass athletes. I'm arguing these are exceptions and you cannot use them to support a premise.

It's like telling kids they can totally do drugs and drink rediculous amounts of alcohol cause you know...Keith Richards and Niki Sixx did it and are still alive.

 

Oh, and here

nutrition and sports performance - Google Scholar

[GoreSP]

I personally know tons of high level athletes. The exceptions would be the ones who eat clean.

 

Know why? They don't have to. They train and perform constantly, and burn through even the worst foods like they're not even there. Now, I'm not saying that they eat 10 donuts a day or McDonalds everyday. But they eat a lot more junk than you would suspect.

 

I posted this pic in another thread, but I'll throw it on here. It's my friend's trainer. He does physique competitions. In the weeks before a competition, he cuts way back on ALL food, good and bad.

 

Here's what he looks like at show time:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f4b9y5vnvlyoa4r/IMG_3421.jpg

 

But my friend always makes him cupcakes for after the events. She says it's nothing for him to sit there and eat 6 or 7 of them in one sitting. And she says sometimes he shows up at the gym with a footlong sub or some other crappy fast food.

 

Again, yes...you can't eat like that all the time, or have crappy food be your staple. But you can eat it with regularity, and a lot of high-level athletes do. Hell, I do, and I would put my body up against anybody's.

 

Yeah, my issue is that you are doing the same mistake as Fooloftheyear. You are trying to support your premise based on the people you know.

 

I'm sure you know a lot of people but it can't be representative of all the athletes 'pool' out there.

Not only is this poor methodological skills, it's also a generalization fallacy.

[RonaldS]

Yeah, my issue is that you are doing the same mistake as Fooloftheyear. You are trying to support your premise based on the people you know.

 

I'm sure you know a lot of people but it can't be representative of all the athletes 'pool' out there.

Not only is this poor methodological skills, it's also a generalization fallacy.

 

Do you understand how statistics works?

[Elias33]

This is why going on a diet is not always the right decision. It is about life style changes, because in the end, you would want to be healthy too right? The calories in versus the calories out works only until you've reached your goal, and then, will you have a body equipped to burn fat, will you have the right metabolism? That depends on macro-nutrients, and even more on micro-nutrients. If calorie counting doesn't do it anymore, then it is time to look at the labels.

 

Keep on working out, clean-up the diet (if you haven't already), and keep going. There is a lot more to it than just calories in vs. calories out, which may include genetics, body type, metabolism, fitness level, cardiovascular health, etc. I am sure there are people that get away with eating fast food and still looking good, but I wouldn't take that as the norm.

 

Good luck and stay busy, be proud of your achievements and blast through those obstacles.

[Elias33]

I personally know tons of high level athletes. The exceptions would be the ones who eat clean.

 

Know why? They don't have to. They train and perform constantly, and burn through even the worst foods like they're not even there. Now, I'm not saying that they eat 10 donuts a day or McDonalds everyday. But they eat a lot more junk than you would suspect.

 

I posted this pic in another thread, but I'll throw it on here. It's my friend's trainer. He does physique competitions. In the weeks before a competition, he cuts way back on ALL food, good and bad.

 

Here's what he looks like at show time:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f4b9y5vnvlyoa4r/IMG_3421.jpg

 

But my friend always makes him cupcakes for after the events. She says it's nothing for him to sit there and eat 6 or 7 of them in one sitting. And she says sometimes he shows up at the gym with a footlong sub or some other crappy fast food.

 

Again, yes...you can't eat like that all the time, or have crappy food be your staple. But you can eat it with regularity, and a lot of high-level athletes do. Hell, I do, and I would put my body up against anybody's.

 

Interesting. I know tri-athletes who do the same. The thing is though, if you are not an athlete, and you just workout after your 9-5, you can't really get away with it. We don't burn through 7000 calories like some of them do, unless your job is very, very demanding. So even though you make a good point about athletes polishing off 10 pancakes at the local Ihop, those athletes also burn twice, if not more than what we do in calories on a daily basis.

[Chocolat]

This is why going on a diet is not always the right decision. It is about life style changes, because in the end, you would want to be healthy too right?

 

Bingo.

 

I have no doubt that young people (<30) and very active people can look good and maintain reasonable health on a crap diet. But as people age and/or become less active, it's not as easy to get away with a diet full of junk. And if healthy longevity is the goal, then eating a whole-food diet, exercising regularly, and maintaining caloric balance is ideal.

[RonaldS]

Interesting. I know tri-athletes who do the same. The thing is though, if you are not an athlete, and you just workout after your 9-5, you can't really get away with it. We don't burn through 7000 calories like some of them do, unless your job is very, very demanding. So even though you make a good point about athletes polishing off 10 pancakes at the local Ihop, those athletes also burn twice, if not more than what we do in calories on a daily basis.

 

I agree and have stated as much numerous times in these threads. Some people don't believe it, though.

 

The entire premise of this thread is that you can't out-train a bad diet, but most of us who are athletic and know athletes know that their diets are rarely great. Good overall, yes. But a lot of allowances are made. You raised the point I've made a thousand time....that it's a numbers game.

 

I did a professional diet analysis. Based on all of the metrics they test, I have a ~4000 kcal/day demand. Most days my diet is right around that value. How I get there is pretty much up to me. My meals tend to be balanced, not processed, etc. In other words, healthy and clean.....most of them. But then there will be pizza or going out for breakfast and getting huge pancake dishes w/sausage.

 

But most of my meals are pretty healthy overall. What I do, though, is snack pretty liberally, and most of the time, those snacks are candy bars, or Oreos. But, I play basketball 4x/week, lift a little, stack workouts, etc, so those deviations from healthy don't affect me. And I'm 40, not 20, so it's night like I'm just ripping through calories because I'm young.

[thefooloftheyear]

Bingo.

 

I have no doubt that young people (<30) and very active people can look good and maintain reasonable health on a crap diet. But as people age and/or become less active, it's not as easy to get away with a diet full of junk. And if healthy longevity is the goal, then eating a whole-food diet, exercising regularly, and maintaining caloric balance is ideal.

 

Sure its ideal....

 

But when people say things like "no one can out train a crap diet"...well...thats just nonsense...

 

I eat a clean diet...But a ton of food...50 THOUSAND calories a week...Yes, I am a pretty big guy(210), and I do train hard...but I am also almost 50 years old...If my mother cooks a plate of pasta, or homemade ravioli, ill eat it...My kid made a mistake with the girl scout cookies and there were about 6 boxes left over...I ate 5 of those boxes in two days..

 

My bf level usually around 12 or 13% or so..I never lose ab definition, vascularity, or anything...My cholesterol reading was 134 last time I checked(a few months ago).Speaking of abs, I have great abs....And I NEVER train abs...Why is this important to this conversation? Because much of what determines what we are and how we process things is dictated by our genetics...Unlike machines, its not always "garbage in and garbage out"..

 

This thread got me thinking of something else...Many years ago I worked the door at a strip club..Those woimen ate the WORST junk you could put in your body...Cheese fries, wings, Doritos, Chips, Pepsi...Same deal..

 

No one(least not me)is advocating eating a shytty diet...Its just stupid..But I am not that naive to think that all people are affected the same way by foods and exercise...If that were the case, then all the people in gyms would look spectacular..Truth is most look like just regular shmoe's off the street...Ive seen guys kill themselves for years and never change and Ive seen others that make gains just setting foot in the place...Its not luck...

 

TFY

Edited May 22, 2014 by thefooloftheyear

[GoreSP]

Do you understand how statistics works?

 

yes.

Do you understand basic research methods?

 

You can't conduct a study with just one group and say these athletes who eat crappy perform well - therefore you can out train a crappy diet - which is exactly what fool of theyear and yourself are doing ). At least compare them with athletes who don't perform well on a crappy diet and see what the numbers are.

 

At best compare performances of athletes who eat crappy diets VS athletes who eat a clean, sports nutrition diet and see which ones perform best.

[Chocolat]

Sure its ideal....

 

But when people say things like "no one can out train a crap diet"...well...thats just nonsense...

 

I eat a clean diet...But a ton of food...50 THOUSAND calories a week...Yes, I am a pretty big guy(210), and I do train hard...but I am also almost 50 years old...If my mother cooks a plate of pasta, or homemade ravioli, ill eat it...My kid made a mistake with the girl scout cookies and there were about 6 boxes left over...I ate 5 of those boxes in two days..

 

My bf level usually around 12 or 13% or so..I never lose ab definition, vascularity, or anything...My cholesterol reading was 134 last time I checked(a few months ago).Speaking of abs, I have great abs....And I NEVER train abs...Why is this important to this conversation? Because much of what determines what we are and how we process things is dictated by our genetics...Unlike machines, its not always "garbage in and garbage out"..

 

This thread got me thinking of something else...Many years ago I worked the door at a strip club..Those woimen ate the WORST junk you could put in your body...Cheese fries, wings, Doritos, Chips, Pepsi...Same deal..

 

No one(least not me)is advocating eating a shytty diet...Its just stupid..But I am not that naive to think that all people are affected the same way by foods and exercise...If that were the case, then all the people in gyms would look spectacular..Truth is most look like just regular shmoe's off the street...Ive seen guys kill themselves for years and never change and Ive seen others that make gains just setting foot in the place...Its not luck...

 

TFY

 

Ok, but activity is a huge offset to junk food. As is youth. You may not have the latter, but you've got the former.

 

Yes, we all know the guy who smoked 2 packs a day and lived to be 90. But the statistics about lung cancer and smoking are nonetheless true, regardless of outlier data.

 

If you look at population studies, the people who consistently live the longest without a bunch of health conditions (healthy longevity as opposed to longevity induced by medicine) are those who eat well and remain active. (and ironically, are often those with low access to or use of medical care, but that's another thread!).

[thefooloftheyear]

yes.

Do you understand basic research methods?

 

You can't conduct a study with just one group and say these athletes who eat crappy perform well - therefore you can out train a crappy diet - which is exactly what fool of theyear and yourself are doing ). At least compare them with athletes who don't perform well on a crappy diet and see what the numbers are.

 

At best compare performances of athletes who eat crappy diets VS athletes who eat a clean, sports nutrition diet and see which ones perform best.

 

 

This is just getting silly.....

 

Think abut this for a moment...

 

Take ALL of the first round picks in this years NFL draft...

 

DO you think for one moment that THEY trained the hardest and had better diets than everyone else? DId they know some secret that the others didnt?

 

Its silly...

 

Truth is most of the undrafted free agents probably worked their asses off and did EVERYTHING perfect---likley BETTER and more disciplined than the first rounders......Jadeveon Clowney doesnt train hard...He has been criticised by all of his coaches for it. Yet he was picked number one..

 

If all it took was work hard and eat right, then many of lower rung guys would be in the Hall of Fame..

 

Remember George Foreman...Big George managed to win the heavyweight championship at the late stages in his life, yet freely admitting his meal of choice was cheeseburgers..

 

TFY

[RonaldS]

Basically what happens is, some people don't want to out in the work, so they have no dietary wiggle room. Then they seem to get upset that other people do put in the work and can eat liberally.

 

Everybody is kind of the master of their own domain here. You can try to do it the easy way, or the short-cut way, or without changing your overall lifestyle, or you can go to work.

 

I chose to go to work.

 

So, playing basketball, there are a lot of guys out there that played college ball, several who played pro (mostly Euro). Even in the pick-up games, where you're playing for 'fun', guys absolutely get after it. Gets intense, gets heated, and guys will go all out. But nobody is getting paid. It's 'fun'. The common saying out there is: 'What's your paycheck here?', and guys point to their bodies.

 

Put in the work, and get paid. Simple as that.

[thefooloftheyear]

Ok, but activity is a huge offset to junk food. As is youth. You may not have the latter, but you've got the former.

 

Yes, we all know the guy who smoked 2 packs a day and lived to be 90. But the statistics about lung cancer and smoking are nonetheless true, regardless of outlier data.

 

If you look at population studies, the people who consistently live the longest without a bunch of health conditions (healthy longevity as opposed to longevity induced by medicine) are those who eat well and remain active. (and ironically, are often those with low access to or use of medical care, but that's another thread!).

 

No argument....

 

The issue here is that No one can out train a bad diet...No one isnt some, a percentage or...No one is no one...

 

TFY

[Chocolat]

Basically what happens is, some people don't want to out in the work, so they have no dietary wiggle room. Then they seem to get upset that other people do put in the work and can eat liberally.

 

Everybody is kind of the master of their own domain here. You can try to do it the easy way, or the short-cut way, or without changing your overall lifestyle, or you can go to work.

 

I chose to go to work.

 

So, playing basketball, there are a lot of guys out there that played college ball, several who played pro (mostly Euro). Even in the pick-up games, where you're playing for 'fun', guys absolutely get after it. Gets intense, gets heated, and guys will go all out. But nobody is getting paid. It's 'fun'. The common saying out there is: 'What's your paycheck here?', and guys point to their bodies.

 

Put in the work, and get paid. Simple as that.

 

I do both. I have the occasional treat but my diet is pretty clean, because I am interested in health as well as appearance. I do the work, too -- both for the current pay off (looking good) and the future one (increased mobility, better health).

 

To me, a good work ethic + clean nutrition = Win/Win.

 

YMMV.