Need skills for responding to H passive aggressive behavior

[jakrbbt]

H and I are teeter tottering between staying married and divorce. It's a special kind of hellish limbo. We have a wonderful 1-yr-old together whom we both love. There's no physical abuse and no affairs-- and that's about all I can say for us. We have been through three marriage counselors. We're working on finding another one (we had one good one but then we moved). We really don't have a lot in common, but I greatly fear divorce and want to avoid it, and H wants to stay married, he says. I know, it sounds bleak! But in some ways we are fortunate-- great baby son, both good people (but not to each other), and I have a very secure job I like and that pays OK, not great, but enough to support 3 on somewhere between comfortable and frugal living, and with some upward mobility in the office. H does not work. Has some issues surrounding that. He's working on it, sort of, and wants to be left alone about it. He has overcome some addictions and in many ways is a likable person.

 

I'd like life to be tolerable while we figure this thing out. But I feel very confined by what I see as a thousand little "rules" that H has around the house-- from whether we line up the shoes properly, to what lights we turn on in what rooms, to what implement I use to wipe the counters or collect the dirt from the broom. Even if I didn't mind his "way," I can't keep track of it all! I'm living in a freaking boarding school and he is the Nun from Hell. I want to be slightly more footloose-- you know, not a slob, but a reasonably tidy person who is able to leave the rice on the floor for a couple hours after dinner while we play with our child, or dump the bags in the entry way for a few hours while we settle in.

 

It's getting to where sometimes I get up in the night and WIPE the countertop with one of the WHITE rags instead of the brown ones-- HA! hahaha! Seriously, I am shedding maturity. I grew up with very few rules, big happy well-educated family, very few problems. H grew up in mormon household with extremely meticulous housekeeping and very particular rules about, as far as I can tell, everything. But he rebelled, supposedly, and besides, he's over 35 now and hasn't lived with them in eons.

 

If I disobey the "rules," H retreats to "his" room (we no longer sleep together) and just stays there, for hours or sometimes for several days only coming out to make a plate of food and of course to watch our son while I'm at work.

 

The big fat message I'm getting is: This is HIS sandbox. If I don't like it, my life will be even more unpleasant than if I just acquiesce.

 

Oh, and besides being the sole breadwinner, I do most the chores and all the budgeting, grocery shopping, evening and weekend and overnight childcare, doctor appointments, planning, et cetera et cetera.

 

 

When H withdrews, I eventually go into his room wanting to talk and be friends. It always ends up overwhelmingly we-blankety. He won't or doesn't say he is angry, but he'll engage only by saying "I see" to almost everything I say. Even if I am going in after a week of silent treatment, and saying loving things.

 

I wish he would just find someone else and happily leave me. I don't want divorce because I worry about him. I do love him-- not a crushy, want-to-be-together love, but a caring-about-him love. If there is a difference.

 

Anyway, am I wrong to go into his room and try to be friendly when he withdraws? Is it a bad idea to continue lining up the coffee cups and hanging the jackets JUST the way he wants? Maybe I could just weather his resentment instead and live the way I would-- medium-tidy, and more active.

 

People who have lived with someone like H-- any ideas?

[Smilecharmer]

Has he been diagnosed with OCD? He needs an evaluation and meds. I wouldn't be able to deal with this..it is more than passive aggressiveness to me, almost emotional and mental abusive.

[Million.to.1]

So, he doesn't work... doesn't do the household chores, and doesn't do shopping or anything?

 

So what does he do when he retreats to his room?

 

Seems to me like he has so little going on in his life that he finds tiny insignificant things to focus on as it gives him some sort of power or importance.

 

Hardly surprising when you are the bread winner and pretty much do everything to keep the household running. He must feel pretty emasculated. Not that's that your fault OP. He clearly has some serious issues.

 

Well, divorce sounds better than living with this IMO.

[travelbug1996]

He doesn't work and wants to be left alone about it? Your behavior is doormat behavior and you need to change that. You guys are basically roommates. Find a babysitter and be done with him because the thrill is gone for him and that's obvious.

 

You seem somewhat passive aggressive as well which is based in control and fear. You two are not creating a healthy environment for the child. Please move on. Not all marriages are meant to work.

 

We have to make sure we are compatible with someone before marrying and having a child. This is a mistake many people make.

[Tressugar]

Did you know this about your husband before the marriage?

 

Usually after the birth of the kid most marriages are done with.

[jakrbbt]

I didn't really know him to behave this way before we got married. If he was, I didn't notice.

 

We have some power struggles and I have some pretty deep resentments too. I feel very lonely and just kind of mind-effed.

 

Just now for instance, he totally sabotaged our plans that we made this morning and said he forgot, or that I didn't make the plans clearly enough. But I know he was upset with me this morning. Now I'm sitting here with a dinner that's gotten cold, H has been out with our baby and was supposed to meet me an hour and a half ago and didn't call me until just now. He says he is not upset at all and that, if I think this is about him being upset, I'm crazy. Now he wants me to meet him, pick up our son, and H wants to go somewhere (where, I have no idea) for the rest of the evening, as usual.

 

Do I confront him, or ignore the behavior and just stop trying to spend time and plan things? The difficulty of course is when I try to plan things at least for my son, and H keeps son away from me or otherwise interferes with those plans.

 

Thanks all for reading and considering and advice.

[whichwayisup]

Has he been diagnosed with OCD? He needs an evaluation and meds. I wouldn't be able to deal with this..it is more than passive aggressiveness to me, almost emotional and mental abusive.

 

I was thinking this too, and throw in some anti social behaviour maybe even he's on the spectrum of aspergers syndrome. Has he been diagnosed with anything by a professional? Either that or he has control freak and is a complete a-hole with narcissistic tendencies.

 

I feel for you, it's not a healthy situation to be in and your young child could learning this behaviour displayed by your husband, even at such a young age.

[carhill]

My suggestion would be for some IC to provide tools both for working your fear as well as for coping with/responding to his behaviors, since you have no control over him. You may feel resentment regarding his behaviors, but you do have choices in how you process this stuff.

 

I learned a lot of this in MC (with a great psychologist) and, simultaneously, caring for a crazy person (clinically psychotic). The confluence of these experiences taught much about coping skills and emotion processing. IMO, a good IC can help you, which I believe is job #1 since you're both the breadwinner and parent, as well as spouse. If/when you can find a good MC, sure, get H in there. For now, keeping you in the game is the mission. You may be required to take a hard look at yourself and make some changes, but that's OK! Life is about change. You'll get through it. I had my moments, to be sure. Good drugs took the hand off the trigger in the worst moments, so keep that tool in your toolbox if needed. The drugs, not the gun!

 

Work that fear. That's good work. Good luck!

[jakrbbt]

My suggestion would be for some IC to provide tools both for working your fear as well as for coping with/responding to his behaviors, since you have no control over him. You may feel resentment regarding his behaviors, but you do have choices in how you process this stuff.

 

I learned a lot of this in MC (with a great psychologist) and, simultaneously, caring for a crazy person (clinically psychotic). The confluence of these experiences taught much about coping skills and emotion processing. IMO, a good IC can help you, which I believe is job #1 since you're both the breadwinner and parent, as well as spouse. If/when you can find a good MC, sure, get H in there. For now, keeping you in the game is the mission. You may be required to take a hard look at yourself and make some changes, but that's OK! Life is about change. You'll get through it. I had my moments, to be sure. Good drugs took the hand off the trigger in the worst moments, so keep that tool in your toolbox if needed. The drugs, not the gun!

 

Work that fear. That's good work. Good luck!

 

Very good advice and quite encouraging. I did have an IC, (individual counselor), but she was not all that effective and so I gave it up. My options for counselors covered by my insurance are kind of slim, but I can shop around in both my town and the town where I work, about an hour away.

 

Can a person life with a passive aggressive and be, themselves, healthy? If so, I'm very willing to learn. Because if I give that an honest shot and then still want to leave, well then, so be it.

 

FEAR. Hate it. Don't know how to use it constructively. Any more specifics you can give on how you coped with your day to day, I'd be glad to hear it.

[jakrbbt]

 

You seem somewhat passive aggressive as well which is based in control and fear.

 

Very much worth thinking about. If I am passive aggressive, the cure would seem to be to recognize and then assert my needs and feelings and expectations-- and to recognize that a person does with my requests what he does.

 

But how to be assertive with a person who is passive aggressive? His main complaint about me-- his only complaint, his refrain-- is that I have too many complaints. Even when I am very sure to assert my requests as requests ("I am not comfortable with you cleaning up dinner while we're still sitting here eating it" or "I don't want you to sneak up behind me and scare me anymore"), he sees those as complaints and they are not ok with him.

 

How do I assert myself in this environment? Because there must be a way, and you're right, it won't do for me to be a) a capitulating doormat or b) passive aggressive, myself.

[Yarrow]

It totally sounds like there's some degree of OCD going on. It's not an excuse for him to be mean about it. The fact that it makes him uncomfortable or anxious or freak out if the cups are not lined up just so is his OCD, and in a way, not his fault. The fact that he's freezing you out for days on end and punishing you because he's uncomfortable is not OCD, that's a-hole behavior and is totally his problem.

 

You can't fix this by changing your behavior or working on your communication. He needs to be assessed and treated. This is typically beyond the skill of a counselor and better done by a psychologist, or even a psychiatrist. He might even need meds. If that gets sorted out and he's still an a-hole OR he refuses to do what he has to to get healthy, then you have to make the difficult decision of whether you can live like this and how far you are prepared to go to extract yourself and your son. I wish you luck.

[travelbug1996]

I dated a PA and they are the absolute worst. Never again. They are cowards who can't productively express themselves and sulk etc. They only want someone that they can resist. You have to position yourself where you can not depend on him for anything. Now. what kind of a relatinship is that? But that's the way to deal with this type. Especially since anything you want from them they will make sure you don't get it. They are waste of time and energy.

 

Never again.

[lil hoodlum]

You deserve better than this!

 

 

Just a thought, maybe you should give him a taste of his own medicine. See how he likes it.

[Radu]

H and I are teeter tottering between staying married and divorce. It's a special kind of hellish limbo. We have a wonderful 1-yr-old together whom we both love. There's no physical abuse and no affairs-- and that's about all I can say for us. We have been through three marriage counselors. We're working on finding another one (we had one good one but then we moved). We really don't have a lot in common, but I greatly fear divorce and want to avoid it, and H wants to stay married, he says. I know, it sounds bleak! But in some ways we are fortunate-- great baby son, both good people (but not to each other), and I have a very secure job I like and that pays OK, not great, but enough to support 3 on somewhere between comfortable and frugal living, and with some upward mobility in the office. H does not work. Has some issues surrounding that. He's working on it, sort of, and wants to be left alone about it. He has overcome some addictions and in many ways is a likable person.

What are the issues and how is he working on it ?

Feel free to write them if you can, it will give clarity to your thoughts, and it might help you see things better.

 

I'd like life to be tolerable while we figure this thing out. But I feel very confined by what I see as a thousand little "rules" that H has around the house-- from whether we line up the shoes properly, to what lights we turn on in what rooms, to what implement I use to wipe the counters or collect the dirt from the broom. Even if I didn't mind his "way," I can't keep track of it all! I'm living in a freaking boarding school and he is the Nun from Hell. I want to be slightly more footloose-- you know, not a slob, but a reasonably tidy person who is able to leave the rice on the floor for a couple hours after dinner while we play with our child, or dump the bags in the entry way for a few hours while we settle in.

Neat-freak or OCD.

Have you talked with the therapist about this ?

 

It's getting to where sometimes I get up in the night and WIPE the countertop with one of the WHITE rags instead of the brown ones-- HA! hahaha! Seriously, I am shedding maturity. I grew up with very few rules, big happy well-educated family, very few problems. H grew up in mormon household with extremely meticulous housekeeping and very particular rules about, as far as I can tell, everything. But he rebelled, supposedly, and besides, he's over 35 now and hasn't lived with them in eons.

Rebelled ... 35, substance issues ... did he leave home in his teens by any chance ?

Is he one of the lost boys ?

 

If I disobey the "rules," H retreats to "his" room (we no longer sleep together) and just stays there, for hours or sometimes for several days only coming out to make a plate of food and of course to watch our son while I'm at work.

Passive-aggressive punishment.

You could view it as a form of abuse, especially since you sound enabler-ish.

 

The big fat message I'm getting is: This is HIS sandbox. If I don't like it, my life will be even more unpleasant than if I just acquiesce.

Actually, the message is 'i'm the boss, and we will do things my way'.

 

 

Oh, and besides being the sole breadwinner, I do most the chores and all the budgeting, grocery shopping, evening and weekend and overnight childcare, doctor appointments, planning, et cetera et cetera.

So you have 2 jobs while he sits in his room and pouts.

Are you sure you don't want to adopt him ?; he could be the grown-up loser son you never had !

 

 

When H withdrews, I eventually go into his room wanting to talk and be friends. It always ends up overwhelmingly we-blankety. He won't or doesn't say he is angry, but he'll engage only by saying "I see" to almost everything I say. Even if I am going in after a week of silent treatment, and saying loving things.

You are doing it wrong.

By going to him, you are showing that you are not strong enough.

 

You either wait him out, or refuse to play his game [Divorce].

I'm not really sure you can wait him out though, passive-aggressives have incredible willpower when they use this to manipulate, especially since even pouting [let's call it that since he's a teenager], also frees him of all responsabilities to be the man of the house.

You know, like doing chores, taking care of kid, cleaning, cooking, looking for a jooooob.

 

I wish he would just find someone else and happily leave me. I don't want divorce because I worry about him. I do love him-- not a crushy, want-to-be-together love, but a caring-about-him love. If there is a difference.

Yes, what you feel is called 'I love you but i'm not in love with you', except that you don't have the strength to go to the next step and put it into practice [leave the relationship with your teenager].

This is why you want him to leave you, so you don't have to pull the trigger.

 

So on one hand we have a passive-aggressive that is content in his situation and feels no need to change, and on another we have a doormat enabler.

If you don't pull the plug on this 'marriage' he won't.

 

The only thing out of the ordinary is questioning what to do, but unless you do something, just questioning will only go towards validating your current position.

 

Anyway, am I wrong to go into his room and try to be friendly when he withdraws?

From a power play pov, yes.

But look on the bright side, when your child becomes a teenager you will have vast experience in dealing with this sort of thing [hopefully].

 

Is it a bad idea to continue lining up the coffee cups and hanging the jackets JUST the way he wants?

Living with him is a bad idea, point ... nothing beyond that.

 

Maybe I could just weather his resentment instead and live the way I would-- medium-tidy, and more active.

 

People who have lived with someone like H-- any ideas?

You are not in the wrong here.

Well, maybe towards your child because the child deserves a better parent than this guy currently is ... i seriously doubt the child will grow up 'normal' with your husband the way it is.

Kids do in fact learn from their parents you know.

[Radu]

Very much worth thinking about. If I am passive aggressive, the cure would seem to be to recognize and then assert my needs and feelings and expectations-- and to recognize that a person does with my requests what he does.

 

But how to be assertive with a person who is passive aggressive? His main complaint about me-- his only complaint, his refrain-- is that I have too many complaints. Even when I am very sure to assert my requests as requests ("I am not comfortable with you cleaning up dinner while we're still sitting here eating it" or "I don't want you to sneak up behind me and scare me anymore"), he sees those as complaints and they are not ok with him.

 

How do I assert myself in this environment? Because there must be a way, and you're right, it won't do for me to be a) a capitulating doormat or b) passive aggressive, myself.

 

You are not passive-aggressive.

 

A PA is still aggressive, albeit not in a confrontational manner, you are not aggressive at all; if you were you would not have accepted this situation.

 

What you are is an enabler, a doormat, someone who has poor boundaries and lets ppl like him walk all over you.

This type of person is at risk of ending up with abusers, so they need to know the warning signs and to create boundaries to protect them, rules that must not be broken.

[Radu]

Very good advice and quite encouraging. I did have an IC, (individual counselor), but she was not all that effective and so I gave it up. My options for counselors covered by my insurance are kind of slim, but I can shop around in both my town and the town where I work, about an hour away.

One option which won't cost you much is this :

- google passive-aggressive + forum, see if there is one that deals with ppl like him

- on the above start reading boundaries

- start thinking, wayyyyyy back [childhood] if you had problems asserting yourself, focus on relationships

- think about your parents dynamic

- write about the above, and leave all of this as a background thought in your mind

 

Parents tend to be rolemodels, that means we model our wants and needs on them.

We either tend to be like them in life, or do a complete 180 and want to be anything but them, but in both cases what we are is a representation of what they were.

It generally starts there.

 

Can a person life with a passive aggressive and be, themselves, healthy? If so, I'm very willing to learn. Because if I give that an honest shot and then still want to leave, well then, so be it.

Who is that person ?

You or your child ?

 

Think carefully.

 

FEAR. Hate it. Don't know how to use it constructively. Any more specifics you can give on how you coped with your day to day, I'd be glad to hear it.

I'll add to this too, i had and still have social anxiety.

When i realised i had to deal with it, i started exposing myself to situations that created fear in me from lower to higher.

I still haven't dealt with it, but i control fear much better now.

[jakrbbt]

I am really leaning on this site right now. Thanks everyone for the considered and upfront input.

 

I have now spent some time researching passive aggressive personalities. It is not a sunny picture. There is no recovery group for passive aggressives and if there were, I gather that it would be a room of empty chairs.

 

H did not seem PA before I married him, but he wouldn't have had any chance to be. I had a kind of upper hand in the relationship, because he wanted my far more than I wanted him and he knew it. We are both very attractive and we both had a lot of very good experiences with the opposite sx. But he knew right away that he wanted to be with me, I was far less sure, and it was a part of our dynamic for years. I didn't really want to be married to anyone for a long time. I gave him plenty of space because I wanted plenty of autonomy, and I certainly never leaned on him to live together. But I also had a very vibrant social life and was in school-- my favorite place to be.

 

Now the tables have somehow turned a bit. I will have to do some thinking about that. What I am gathering is: I must take some action; I cannot just choose to tolerate a bad situation, because then I'm letting my child live in a bad situation. Taking action would mean ceasing to participate in the passive-aggressive/ passive relationship. And that, in turn, might have to mean ending the relationship. I don't want to end it, at least not until I've made all reasonable efforts to keep it.

 

I have left out that of course there are some very good sides to H, though I only see them intermittently these days, and that he truly is a loving father, very enamored with our son. He complains about how hard it is to watch him when I'm at work, and he doesn't contribute in other ways, but the fact that he reads to and plays with and attends to our baby when I'm away is certainly nothing to sneeze at.

 

I probably could do some examination of my past, but two recent situations come to mind. I graduated law school and immediately took a job with a nightmare bully boss-- the worst. The job was stressful even without that guy, but he really messed with me. I was his prime target for five years. And because of the economy, suddenly law students who were graduating at the top of their class couldn't get a job, so I held onto mine. I held onto it, and I performed insanely well, just to make sure the boss wouldn't have as much to pick on me for. People told me I changed a bit during those years.

 

I applied for and got my dream job, beating out 500 applicants. For three weeks I was walking around in heaven.

 

Then, the LAST DAY of my old job, in the evening on my way home from the gym, I was kidnapped at gunpoint and eventually had to jump out of the car to escape. I stupidly neglected to get treatment for that for over a year.

 

Now I have the fantastic job and still great health, but not much going on outside of work and baby and marriage dynamics.

 

And I'm still proving myself at work, so I feel it is important not to do anything with my personal life that would be too disruptive for the next several months, until I've completed some pivotal cases that will take some focus.

 

So I will start with the step I feel able to do for now. I am going to basically try to "get a life" as they say. The best life I've ever had was when I was in school, because it was both philosophically and socially rich.

 

I am not at all sure how to emulate that, so any ideas would be great. I've never really liked book clubs or yoga classes, so I'd rather try other things.

 

But if H's behavior is less relevant because I have other things going on, then I don't think that PA mind games and pouting will seem like the course to take for him. And even if he does continue to be passive aggressive and ignore me, I'll have healthy relationships in my life and will be able to transition to divorce-hood better than I could now, I think.

 

Sorry for the long reply post-- I am ever the student, and am very interested to see how this resonates with some of you more experienced ones.

[Graciousgal]

Just an observation from your posts...he is PA, he is a roommate, he does what he wants when he wants (changes plans you set and then wants to go out and not say where). He does not contribute to your marriage financially or emotionally. It sounds as if physically he contributes when you are "friendly to him" after he's ignored you for a week. He even complains that watching your son is hard. He has it made and he knows it. He doesn't have to make any effort.

 

It also sounds to me as if you made a decision to leave, but just not yet. "transition to divorce-hood better than I could now". You are young and though divorce is not easy, nor raising a child, you deserve better and the sooner the better. Life is to short.

 

If you had a daughter and she came to you with your life, what advice would you give her?