My husband shoved me to the ground

[Hope Shimmers]

I think that you need more help and advice than this thread can give you.

 

The issue of spousal abuse is complicated. I was married for 16 years - verbal/emotional abuse for all of it, and physical abuse escalated after 10 years of marriage.

 

My ex-H was required to go to anger management counseling by his boss, but it was because he could not hold his temper in his job. It didn't help the marriage.

 

Please find someone who can work with both of you. We can't know enough to give you advice - even though everyone is trying to. There are just too many factors we can't know.

[GypsieFlower]

I think OP really needs to examine why she felt the need to be so cold to him, unreasonably, as she pointed out herself. No his actions were not right or even justified, but I believe both made the situation what it was. You showed your power and control by ignoring him and being cold. He did it through force.

 

 

Maybe you never fight because you always react like this? neither of you actually face any issues, so technically you don't fight, but there is still tension?

 

 

He was still in the wrong out of the two of you but You both played your roles in what happened. And the fact you are reluctant to fix it, even though you claim you want to , makes me think things may not be as peachy as you say, or maybe you don't wan to admit to yourself.

 

 

The fact he said that when your 11 month old almost pulled the paint down makes me think this may not be the first angry out lash, it was just never violent before. I think counselling for the both of you would be good, that way you can tell everything that you fee and think and so can he, and it is a safe non judgemental environment. Sometimes even without the advice from the councillor, that alone can help the situation.

 

 

 

 

If someone is holding me and shaking me and won't respond to me telling them to stop, a slap is the lightest thing they're going to get. They're lucky they don't get a knee to the groin or if I'm really threatened, then get their eyes jabbed.

 

What would self defense look like to you?

 

 

 

If I was being shaken like that and I was truly scared and not just angry, I would have stepped on his foot, or bitten the hands that are holding me, or anything else besides aggravate the situation.

 

Also please note, he couldn't have been holding her arms that tightly if she managed to lift one up, all the way to his face that is apparently so much higher than hers, and get enough of a swing to be able to slap him without him stopping her.

 

Slapping is offensive. For a woman it is never done to stop violence but to assert that you believe you are able to cause the other person harm and not get anything back from it because of gender.

 

 

And I am a woman saying this.

 

 

And I am sorry, I am not the biggest person either but my partner is about the same as hers, and if he was holding me and shaking me, It is extremely easy to get out of that situation. One of the easiest of which is to just go limp and drop to the ground, he will let go out of shock and youre free.

Edited May 21, 2014 by GypsieFlower

[Turtles]

A talk does not fix this problem.

 

It's not something that talk fixes. Her husband needs help and it may be a long while before she believes any words he says.

 

Based on the description I don't feel like this is an "abusive relationship", there is no pattern of abuse, this is not a lifetime movie, just 2 people who got a bit hot headed. I feel like by taking the position of a victim and proclaiming yourself an abused woman (sorry, OP, I am stretching a bit, just the vibe that your post and post title was giving) you are going to completely and irreversibly antagonize your husband. Physical violence in a couple is always a bad thing but painting him a wife-beater is not going to get you back to a peaceful marriage.

 

A lot of people are suggesting counseling and this definitely sounds like a great idea but finding someone and getting an appointment can take a lot of time, and then who knows if the person will know what they are talking about. So having a deep talk with him about how the heck this could happen seems like a good place to start.

 

Finally, he is probably deeply ashamed to have done that and requiring he gets some sort of anger management treatment for the one incident is not necessarily going to be helpful in the long run. However if you do go with the stance that he needs help for his anger issues you may wish to think about doing the same for yourself, as you recognized you had some passive aggressive tendencies, and this way it would be an even deal.

[JaneSP]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. I was really emotional yesterday and reading your replies helped me clear my head and re-think the situation.

 

We went out, sat across each other and just talked. He said he doesn't remember most of what happened so I walked him through it. It was important to me that he knows everything I know, and he apologized repeatedly. He said we've been together for 12 years, and he's never done anything close to what happened yesterday. I told him I'm open to working through this one incident, but if it ever happens again, it will be over between us. He asked if that was an ultimatum, I said yes not just for him but also for myself. I don't want to become scared of him, and i would never want to live in fear of having him snap like that again.I apologized for the slap and the silent treatment, and we both promised each other that we will work hard to avoid letting things escalate like that again. We agreed that if we keep having issues with communicating, then we will seek help through marriage counseling. I also made him promise to be mindful of our kids, because our rule has always been to never fight in front of them.

 

This morning, I talked to my mother-in-law, and let her know a little bit of what happened. She heard much of my husband's yelling, but I also let her know it became physical. I told her that our marriage will not survive a second incident like this. I'm still debating on whether i should even tell my own mom about it. She went through hell with my sister, she was the one that had to go with her to the emergency room and tend to the bruises. I'd hate to have her worrying about us too. On the other hand, I don't want it to be a secret because I think having our family know about it will help the both of us keep things together.

[Mr. Lucky]

We went out, sat across each other and just talked. He said he doesn't remember most of what happened so I walked him through it. It was important to me that he knows everything I know, and he apologized repeatedly. He said we've been together for 12 years, and he's never done anything close to what happened yesterday.

Did he give you any insight as to why he thought this happened? "I don't remember" doesn't convey much effort to come to terms with his role in this...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Eivuwan]

Yeah, I don't know. I'm glad you guys have a plan, but it doesn't seem as though there is much insight into what happened for things to go this far.

[pteromom]

We agreed that if we keep having issues with communicating, then we will seek help through marriage counseling.

 

I was with you up until this.

 

You need counseling now.

 

Think about this logically. Your husband lost it and became physically violent. Do you think he did that because he WANTED to?

 

If not, why do you think "wanting to" will be enough for next time?

 

He needs to analyze what was going on inside him, how to recognize the feelings that led to the choice to become abusive, and alternate responses for next time so he doesn't go down the same path.

 

And what about you? You are gonna do better... how? Do you know and understand everything you are doing in the relationship that is leading to negative outcome? Do you know how to be different?

 

You guys need to get into counseling so you can really dig into this and FIX it, not just throw a bandaid over it and move on hoping for better.

[seekingpeaceinlove]

Your husband "doesn't remember most of what happened?" That's scary. You two would benefit from counseling NOW.

[Eivuwan]

OP, like what the others have said, I think you need counseling NOW. I am not convinced that you understand how serious this is and how difficult it would be to prevent another incident without outside help. Behaviors and habits that have been ingrained for so many years are not easy to change without some serious intervention.

[velvette]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. I was really emotional yesterday and reading your replies helped me clear my head and re-think the situation.

 

We went out, sat across each other and just talked. He said he doesn't remember most of what happened so I walked him through it. It was important to me that he knows everything I know, and he apologized repeatedly. He said we've been together for 12 years, and he's never done anything close to what happened yesterday. I told him I'm open to working through this one incident, but if it ever happens again, it will be over between us. He asked if that was an ultimatum, I said yes not just for him but also for myself. I don't want to become scared of him, and i would never want to live in fear of having him snap like that again.I apologized for the slap and the silent treatment, and we both promised each other that we will work hard to avoid letting things escalate like that again. We agreed that if we keep having issues with communicating, then we will seek help through marriage counseling. I also made him promise to be mindful of our kids, because our rule has always been to never fight in front of them.

 

This morning, I talked to my mother-in-law, and let her know a little bit of what happened. She heard much of my husband's yelling, but I also let her know it became physical. I told her that our marriage will not survive a second incident like this. I'm still debating on whether i should even tell my own mom about it. She went through hell with my sister, she was the one that had to go with her to the emergency room and tend to the bruises. I'd hate to have her worrying about us too. On the other hand, I don't want it to be a secret because I think having our family know about it will help the both of us keep things together.

 

Two huge red flags. H doesn't remember what happened. That sounds like what I call a rage blackout. He gave himself permission to get so angry that he tripped over into a state of rage that basically made his rational brain stop working. That much rage comes from somewhere buried deep. It also comes from a place of deep hurt. Rage and anger are covering emotions for hurt/emotional pain.

 

Its unlikely that the current stress of remodeling, inlaws visiting, even buried issues within your M could cause that much rage UNLESS it is reminding him of something in his past. If the current stress made him feel out of control, and reminded him of something that hurt him in the past where he truly may have had no control because he was a child, this is the usual recipe for abuse.

 

Ask him about his past. Was there abuse in his family. Was he ever sexually molested. Many men bury this, never tell anyone, never tell anyone and then when the stresses of life build up combined with the stress of keeping their "shameful" secret buried, they start feeling out of control and abuse to regain a feeling of control.

 

I also don't like his question about giving him and ultimatum. He should be giving himself an ultimatum not challenging you on that. Expect him to test your resolve. Also, expect him to switch to emotionally or verbally abusing you. Abusers are clever.

 

What was MIL reaction? And, yes tell your mother. You need support and he needs accountability.

 

Please at least insist your H get some counseling to understand why he did this. The odds are not good that he will stop even if he thinks so and wants to without professional help. And heres why............it felt too good and his brain does remember that. It gave him instant relief from his rage and unless he learns a different way to deal with that rage its now his go to option. You may not see it for a while, but trust me you will see it again.

 

Get some books on abuse or google and educate yourself. Take care.

[carhill]

Hi, sounds like a productive meeting. The only tweak I'd recommend is in this area:

 

We agreed that if we keep having issues with communicating, then we will seek help through marriage counseling.

 

Engage a competent MC to build upon the words and actions which occurred at the meeting. Do it now, *before* any future issues arise. As I noted in my first posting, your physical altercation was the canary. Respect it for what it is. Yes, apologies and promises are nice. Change and growth take work and tools. MC can provide work space and a toolbox and a schedule. Otherwise, the work which impels growth and change gets increasingly prioritized behind the events of the moment.

[velvette]

Competent professionals who are familiar with the cycle of abuse generally no longer recommend marital counseling until after the abusive individual has dealt with their individual issues in counseling.

 

Further, it can cause more abuse or escalate ongoing abuse.

[janedoe67]

RE: rage blackouts. I have been on the receiving end of this twice. Once it begins happening it is easier and easier to allow it to keep happening.

 

Bottom line, grabbing and shaking is NOT an appropriate response to someone being too quiet or grumpy. PERIOD. And while slapping may not be the best way try to get someone to let go of you, it was a response to a physically provoking act. After he let go and you TURNED YOUR BACK, he hit your head and shoved you down. And btw, I have been held by my upper arms and shaken before. It IS possible to bend at the elbow (duh) and slap at someone.

 

I agree that the last thing you need to do with a volatile situation is go into a counselor's office and both of you open up issues that may stir up even MORE anger. I'd recommend IC for both of you and THEN MC.

[carhill]

Competent professionals who are familiar with the cycle of abuse generally no longer recommend marital counseling until after the abusive individual has dealt with their individual issues in counseling.

 

Further, it can cause more abuse or escalate ongoing abuse.

I'll be completely honest, having had MC with a psychologist who specializes in abuse, including rape and molestation.

 

I disagree.

 

This man will never go to IC on his own. Never.

 

If the OP predicates counseling on his attending IC, she'll never get anywhere. I'd wager next year's wages on it, and my divorce lawyer's fees.

 

What I've noted in this thread is how one incident, and we must accept the statements of the thread starter as factual, is being blown up into a pattern of abuse. It's not. It's one incident. If there was a history of mental and emotional cruelty and/or physical abuse, that's a completely different matter.

 

So, we'll agree to disagree.

 

OP, if you make an appointment with a MC for next week and invite your H to join you and he says no, go and get your own counseling.

[velvette]

I'll be completely honest, having had MC with a psychologist who specializes in abuse, including rape and molestation.

 

I disagree.

 

This man will never go to IC on his own. Never.

 

If the OP predicates counseling on his attending IC, she'll never get anywhere. I'd wager next year's wages on it, and my divorce lawyer's fees.

 

What I've noted in this thread is how one incident, and we must accept the statements of the thread starter as factual, is being blown up into a pattern of abuse. It's not. It's one incident. If there was a history of mental and emotional cruelty and/or physical abuse, that's a completely different matter.

 

So, we'll agree to disagree.

 

OP, if you make an appointment with a MC for next week and invite your H to join you and he says no, go and get your own counseling.

 

Every pattern starts with the first time. Although, I would bet money there already is emotional abuse going on in this M, perhaps even on both sides and they don't recognize it for what it is.

 

I would agree it was being blown up if he shoved her slightly, or grabbed her arm while they were both in each others faces or some other lesser offense even though none of those should be acceptable.

 

Her H came after her and shook her. That is an act of violence intended to control someone, not a loss of temper with stupid behavior. Further, he claims not to remember what happened. People just don't tap into rage like that unless they are carrying a ton of it except in very extreme circumstances. What he did is the very definition of abuse. Actually, its assault and if she had called the police he likely would have been arrested and charged. The OP is not well served by anyone minimizing or justifying this whatever has gone on in the M.

 

For the OP, there are tons of websites on abuse where she can go and look at the criteria for abuse and compare it against the history of her M. She can also google and find out why professionals recommend not going to counseling with a H who has physically abused you.

 

As for the H refusing to go, that would be a good reason to separate from him until he does imo. And, I agree he may not go because most abusive men don't go until they are court ordered. If he wants to save his M and she makes that a condition, he will eventually go. If she wants to go to joint counselor solely to get them to convince him to get his own counseling fine.

 

He needs to take responsibility for what he did and come up with some plan of action to ensure it doesn't again. If he's not willing to do that, whats the point of working on anything else in the M. The M is not responsible for him getting physical with his W.

 

We can agree to disagree. I understand it seems counterintuitive not to go to marital counseling. Fact remains that is the current recommendation of many expert in the field.

[Baller25]

When someone (especially someone stronger than you) has got your body and is shaking you, and not responding to your verbal demands to let go, it's not "bad behavior" to slap them to try to get them to let go. It's self defense.

 

If he had let go and THEN she slapped him, that would be violence. But that's not what happened.

 

You trying to make it seem like it's something between two strangers, in which case you would definitely be right, but this is husband & wife so your in the wrong.

 

The best thing for the OP was to give him a serious stare the first time he was violent towards her like a 'your seriously going to hit me' kinda stare. It would have established her humanity and that she is his wife and not just anybody. Also it would have given him a moment to realize what he was doing during that pause, which as a guy I know is the reason why so many fights spiral.

[Smilecharmer]

You trying to make it seem like it's something between two strangers, in which case you would definitely be right, but this is husband & wife so your in the wrong.

 

The best thing for the OP was to give him a serious stare the first time he was violent towards her like a 'your seriously going to hit me' kinda stare. It would have established her humanity and that she is his wife and not just anybody. Also it would have given him a moment to realize what he was doing during that pause, which as a guy I know is the reason why so many fights spiral.

 

Lolli is right. The stare only works if both are in a rational mindset and cognizant of their actions. There are no moments when someone is shaking you and yelling. The lack of understanding of how quickly a domestic violence situation can escalate is astonishing.

[hoping2heal]

OP,

 

It appears that some very long sweltering resentment finally came to a head. You mentioned you have a problem with being passive aggressive, and that would certainly explain the resentment (though let me be clear it might explain his blow up, it doesn't excuse it).

 

The relationship is causing you BOTH to behave in ways that are out of character for you. Something is very wrong in your relationship and what happened just highlighted that.

[Baller25]

Lolli is right. The stare only works if both are in a rational mindset and cognizant of their actions. There are no moments when someone is shaking you and yelling. The lack of understanding of how quickly a domestic violence situation can escalate is astonishing.

 

I've been given 'the stare' a few times by different women and the 2 seconds of pause always makes me realise what I'm doing, but then again the worst physical attack I've ever done towards a women is a 'come at me bro' push.

 

I dated this girl when I was 22 and after driving her crazy she decided to push me against the wall and locked her hand on my neck — I froze myself and gave her 'the stare' and she basically apologised about it for months. However, unlike the OP I will admit that I did deserve it no matter how much her stinky snatch was.

 

I am surprised though that the OP's husband didn't just stop and apologise profusely after the OP went to the ground.

[janedoe67]

I've been given 'the stare' a few times by different women and the 2 seconds of pause always makes me realise what I'm doing, but then again the worst physical attack I've ever done towards a women is a 'come at me bro' push.

 

I dated this girl when I was 22 and after driving her crazy she decided to push me against the wall and locked her hand on my neck — I froze myself and gave her 'the stare' and she basically apologised about it for months. However, unlike the OP I will admit that I did deserve it no matter how much her stinky snatch was.

 

I am surprised though that the OP's husband didn't just stop and apologise profusely after the OP went to the ground.

 

Exactly. This was not a man who was in a state to ponder his actions. He was strictly in blind reaction mode. Honestly, this all probably happened in the space of a few seconds. NOBODY thinks things through logically in the midst of that.

 

And regarding this whole "boiling over resentment" idea. Yeah, it's a pain when someone is passive aggressive. My H was an expert at it. But short answers and the silent treatment do not equal "it's okay to get physical."

[pink_sugar]

It sounds like this all happened in the heat of the moment. I think effort needs to be made on both parts...OP's lack of communication and expecting the husband to just get what she's thinking by being silent and the H needs to keep his temper under control. Take a break before things get heated. Unless there is a history of her H getting physical or he has frequent anger problemss, they both probably reacted as a result of the issues blowing up. Believe me, when my husband and I were younger, things would just get out of control. And yes, when you strike someone, your instinct says to strike back. People always blame the man first, when in actuality both of us engaged in physical violence because things escalated too far. It's best not to allow yourselves to escalate that far.

Edited May 23, 2014 by pink_sugar

[Clockwork]

That seems unusual after that many years of marriage. Look, you both were physical with each other. You both have to figure out why it escalated the way it did. A loving relationship doesn't have violence in it.