Gay Shellfish

[Mr Scorpio]

The OP of a previous thread mentioned -- in response to another poster -- that they tend to eat a Mediterranean diet that consisted mostly of shellfish.

 

My understanding is that the Old Testament mentions several times that shellfish are verboten. Likewise, my understanding is that the OT mentions homosexuality once, and furthermore that JC never mentioned it.

 

Why do folks tend to emphasize one rule and not the other? Were the prohibitions against shellfish in the OT limited to a certain group of people?

 

If so, does the same apply to the rules regarding mixing fabrics, stoning non-virgins to death, selling/buying slaves, etc, etc?

[TheFinalWord]

Were the prohibitions against shellfish in the OT limited to a certain group of people?

 

If so, does the same apply to the rules regarding mixing fabrics, stoning non-virgins to death, selling/buying slaves, etc, etc?

 

There are Levitical laws that applied only to Israel. Notice the first sentence of Leviticus 11, where dietary law is addressed:

 

"Speak to the Sons of Israel saying"

 

Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams you may eat any that have fins and scales. But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to regard as unclean. And since you are to regard them as unclean, you must not eat their meat; you must regard their carcasses as unclean. Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be regarded as unclean by you.

 

Notice, these laws were for Israel, specifically. In the same context, when God describes forbidden sexual practices, he directly states that Israel must not practice them and admonishes other nations for practicing them (he does not do this over shell fish):

 

“Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘I am the Lord your God. You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices...

 

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion. Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the **nations** which I am casting out before you have become defiled ‘For the land has become defiled, therefore I have visited its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants. But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments, and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you (for the men of the land who have been before you have done all these abominations, and the land has become defiled); so that the land may not spew you out, should you defile it, as it has spewed out the nation which has been before you. ‘For whoever does any of these abominations, those persons who do so shall be cut off from among their people. ‘Thus you are to keep My charge, that you do not practice any of the abominable customs which have been practiced before you, so as not to defile yourselves with them; I am the Lord your God.’"

 

Notice the lack of comparison with eating shellfish and God stating it was a reason these other nations were defiled. BTW these were not the only moral practices which God condemned. He also condemned, universally, including bestiality, adultery, and child sacrifice.

 

There are actually three classifications of Levitical law:

 

1) Civil: Ceased with the demise of Jewish civil government

2) Ceremonial: Ceased with the fulfillment of Christ, the Great High Priest

3) Moral: Not expired; continuity where reaffirmed in New Testament

 

In regards to the Levitical law regarding dietary customs, I refer you to Peter's vision:

 

About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

 

Hope this helps!

[angel.eyes]

...My understanding is that the Old Testament mentions several times that shellfish are verboten. Likewise, my understanding is that the OT mentions homosexuality once, and furthermore that JC never mentioned it.

 

Why do folks tend to emphasize one rule and not the other? Were the prohibitions against shellfish in the OT limited to a certain group of people?

 

Wha...what?? Gay shrimp?!? Nice thread title! It certainly caught my attention.

 

First, homosexual acts are specifically and repeatedly described as sinning throughout both the Old and New Testaments. For example, see Romans 1:18-28, especially v.26-28; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; 1 Timothy 1:8-10. Sexual immorality in general is considered sinful (Romans 1:29-32; 1 Corinthians 6:9, 18-20; 1 Corinthians 7: 8-9; Galatians 5: 19-21; Ephesians 5:3-5; 1 Thessalonians 4: 3-6; Hebrews 13: 4; Jude 7). I didn't provide any of the numerous Old Testament references since you seem comfortable that the topic is discussed there.

 

What is interesting about the New Testament, is that Jesus Himself took things a step further than was then practiced in Israel. He taught that just looking at someone who wasn't your spouse, with the intent to lust after the person was itself sin (Matthew 5:27-28). In other words, even though you may not technically engage in sex physically with the person, viewing porn, going to strip clubs, etc. is also sinful. He made similar comments about divorce and remarriage, something that was condoned in the Old Testament (Matthew 5: 31-32; Matthew 19: 3-9). So, His interpretation of Mosaic laws regarding sin that are delineated in Exodus and Leviticus was more stringent than the interpretation used by Pharisees and other religious leaders of the time. In God's eyes, your intent and what is in your heart are just as critical as what you may actually do (Matthew 5: 21-24).

 

Second, Jesus (and Old Testament prophets such as Isaiah and Jeremiah) made it clear that His death on the cross would be the ultimate sacrifice. It fulfilled God's promise to Abraham and eliminated the need for the annual sacrifice (at Yom Kippur) and the sundry observances and rituals that Jews kept to remain clean from a religious perspective. In fact, Jesus Himself and his disciples were often criticized for "flouting" some of these observances, criticism he typically turned into teaching points. For example, see Matthew 12:2-8, 9-14 and Matthew 15: 1-20. Besides Jesus' own comments in the Gospels, there is significant discussion throughout the New Testament epistles that these religious observances (circumcision, keeping kosher, etc.) to keep "clean" were no longer necessary once you accepted Christ as your savior (e.g. Galatians 2: 14-16 and Galatians 3: 2-5, 13-14, 19-26).

 

Out of curiosity, what prompted your question?

Edited May 25, 2014 by angel.eyes

[pureinheart]

The OP of a previous thread mentioned -- in response to another poster -- that they tend to eat a Mediterranean diet that consisted mostly of shellfish.

 

My understanding is that the Old Testament mentions several times that shellfish are verboten. Likewise, my understanding is that the OT mentions homosexuality once, and furthermore that JC never mentioned it.

 

Why do folks tend to emphasize one rule and not the other? Were the prohibitions against shellfish in the OT limited to a certain group of people?

 

If so, does the same apply to the rules regarding mixing fabrics, stoning non-virgins to death, selling/buying slaves, etc, etc?

 

What does verboten mean? I know, I know, Gooooogle it :p Just messing with you Mr. S.

 

In answer to the questions you asked, what they said up there ^^^ those are really good responses.

 

IMO sin is sin, from O/T to N/T didn't make sin any different. Jesus death and resurrection satisfied certain issues like clean and unclean, the Sabbath etc. It also satisfied the payment for sin. This parroted what they said up there, but figured I need something on topic!

[gaius]

Wha...what?? Gay shrimp?!? Nice thread title! It certainly caught my attention.

I had all these thoughts running through my head like how a shellfish would even know the sex of another shellfish and then bam. Not a single actual gay shellfish.

[Els]

The OP of a previous thread mentioned -- in response to another poster -- that they tend to eat a Mediterranean diet that consisted mostly of shellfish.

 

My understanding is that the Old Testament mentions several times that shellfish are verboten. Likewise, my understanding is that the OT mentions homosexuality once, and furthermore that JC never mentioned it.

 

Why do folks tend to emphasize one rule and not the other? Were the prohibitions against shellfish in the OT limited to a certain group of people?

 

If so, does the same apply to the rules regarding mixing fabrics, stoning non-virgins to death, selling/buying slaves, etc, etc?

 

Interesting note: I actually knew a few Christians who did abstain from all the prohibited OT food. Needless to say, eating out with them was a pain in the behind...

[Mr Scorpio]

Out of curiosity, what prompted your question?

 

A previous thread dealing w/ a church being forced to accept gay marriage. A poster retorted the OP w/ claims about eating animals. The OP responded my pointing out that the meat he eats is primarily seafood.

[truthbetold]

The OP of a previous thread mentioned -- in response to another poster -- that they tend to eat a Mediterranean diet that consisted mostly of shellfish.

 

My understanding is that the Old Testament mentions several times that shellfish are verboten. Likewise, my understanding is that the OT mentions homosexuality once, and furthermore that JC never mentioned it.

 

Why do folks tend to emphasize one rule and not the other? Were the prohibitions against shellfish in the OT limited to a certain group of people?

 

If so, does the same apply to the rules regarding mixing fabrics, stoning non-virgins to death, selling/buying slaves, etc, etc?

 

I can't tell if you're serious or not. I think I need to start a fire and dust off the brimstone,(sarcasm) as it seems I should capture the role so hold on....First THANK YOU TheFinalWord, that was a great post. And Mr. Scorpio when I was just finding my way getting closer with Jesus, I had the exact same question! I didn't understand why you could eat what was forbidden in the OT.

 

Angel explained very well that Jesus did definitely say something, even though it wasn't said in those exact words, everyone of the time knew the meaning. Perhaps they were more intelligent for all our self proclaimed worldly education? Further there's this

 

"It is technically true that Jesus did not specifically address homosexuality in the Gospel accounts; however, He did speak clearly about sexuality in general. Concerning marriage, Jesus stated, “At the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. Concerning marriage, Jesus stated, “At the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh[.]’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate” (Matt 19:4-6). Here Jesus clearly referred to Adam and Eve and affirmed God’s intended design for marriage and sexuality"

 

The other things you mentioned, were customs of the times. Such as what women wore, how they wore their hair. There's leeway in the customs of any given time that don't infringe on the dogma or doctrine.

 

As far as slaves. God only permitted it because of free will and man's hardened hearts. That was entirely societal and not of God.

 

I understand some want to portray Jesus as a free love hippie type that accepts all types of love. But it's not true. The Bible must be taken in it's entirety as a structure for Christian life. Not cherry picked for one's personal agenda.

 

I am SO sorry I actually started that other thread. Aside from needing a question mark, I should have known better for how it would come across. But actually I thank posters like Lollipopspot who widened my eyes further to the vegan's plight of being bombarded with meat images. It's something I plan to give serious prayer and thought to moving forward as I believe vegans may very well be better stewards of God's gifts of the animals and there's something to be said for that (kindness) however I admittedly didn't delve into all the facts yet, but I will pray for guidance.

 

Once again though, not agreeing with one's lifestyle choice does not equal hate. I can separate out the person from the action. In person, you would not even know I disagree unless I were asked point blank. That's not being fake that's being a true Christian and kind to ALL others, not just those I like. It's hard to be humble on a forum as you only have the written word.

 

Some of the nicest, kindest, sweetest people I have known are homosexual. Now that may sound patronizing but it's not meant to be. I care about souls being in jeopardy. I know that's not popular that people can truly be altruistic and want to help others, however I do.

 

There was a thread awhile back that hurt one of the forum's most beloved posters (grumpybutfun) I felt AWFUL that my words could have been construed to hurt someone so lovely. I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings here, I was merely trying to convey that something that started with Christian roots, should stay that way. I'm protective of the terms marriage and such. This is likely not the place to discuss that because of so many opportunities for misconceptions unless you type a novel and still they can exist.

 

No one said it's easy to be a Christian. It's obvious for some poster's disdain for it, they may have been taught about it wrong, or really hurt by someone they trusted and betrayed that trust. I think we're all just trying to do the best we can for the most part.

 

George Washington was quoted as saying:

 

" Our Founding Fathers set this great nation of ours upon the twin towers of religion and morality. Our first president, George Washington, said that anyone who would attack these twin towers could not possibly consider themselves to be a loyal American. Not only did they set us up as a nation under God, but a nation founded upon the Judaic-Christian principles summarized in the words, "The laws of nature and the laws of nature’s God," words that we find in the Declaration of Independence."

 

First Amendment Article

 

No one can deny we were a nation started and founded with religious principles. We were blessed for the most part for many years, good crops, the land of the free. Until little by little we removed God. Yet another poster remarked as much as we were a country of God for the most part, we took away this land from the Native Americans. And she's absolutely correct and how can that be right?

 

I don't have the answers of course. I can only try to brighten my little corner of where I am. Thankfully I do that so much better IRL than here!

 

Mr. Scorpio I hope you got the answers you sought and this was mildly helpful.BTW, I'm a "she" (I picked an absolutely lousy screen name that doesn't really convey the peace I try to share and I don't usually post using my humor not sure why I guess I'm better at ad libbing, and sarcasm and quick comebacks in person, can't do it written, but anyway my screen name is too harsh, but I'm stuck with it it so there you go)

[janedoe67]

I could get very specific about the whole Law vs. Grace doctrine and such...but I suspect this is just another attempt to say "You can't be against homosexuality if you don't also follow X."

 

Homosexuality is not just addressed in Leviticus. And though Christ is the central focus of Scripture, the fact that He did not specifically call out homosexuality does not mean that it is fine.

 

There are people who, based on their reading of all of Scripture, believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin. This does not mean that they are homophobic, hateful, evil, bigoted, or stupid. It means they believe everything that is written in the Bible. We have become a society that thinks disagreement is hate. It is not.

[Mr Scorpio]

BTW, I'm a "she" (I picked an absolutely lousy screen name that doesn't really convey the peace I try to share and I don't usually post using my humor not sure why I guess I'm better at ad libbing, and sarcasm and quick comebacks in person, can't do it written, but anyway my screen name is too harsh, but I'm stuck with it it so there you go)

 

My apologies. I'm embarrassed that I assumed otherwise.