desperately disappointed in marriage - s

[BritishBecca]

Hi, I'm new here.

 

My husband and I have been together for 11 years, now late 30s and married for 7. We have two daughters aged 2 and 5.

 

My husband has big unresolved family issues, his mother has a personality disorder (narcissistic) and has damaged him. On the face of it he is an intelligent, kind, sociable man. Underneath he is overwhelmingly anxious about abandonment/rejection and this causes him to behave in a variety of ways - he people-pleases, is passive aggressive, will not argue or confront anything, tries to control me especially with my emotional expression (I am not allowed to show anger or irritation), he engulfs me and cannot tolerate much separateness between us. I am used by him, unconsciously I admit, to regulate his feelings. He sends mixed messages to me "I really want you to go out and work....you are very stressed when working....the children are much happier when you aren't stressed..." which undermines me.

 

My husband has things he says he admires and loves me for, things which are very different to his family, I am emotional, straight talking, decisive, creative and free thinking. Now he criticises me for these same things, I am too emotional, have an anger problem (because I show how I feel), too blunt, tell him what to do (not true, I make decisions and then don't faff about), etc. I have told him it feels like he doesn't actually accept me for who I am. I asked him if by marrying the opposite of his mother he had a wife too far outside his comfort zone. He shows ambivalence towards me in this constant to and fro of I like you but I don't like this.

 

I feel I am married to a clingy, needy child not an equal adult man. He has repeatedly put his horrible mother's feelings ahead of his and mine even allowing her to be rude and unpleasant to me in our house and done nothing about it. This has badly affected my respect for him and I am/have started emotionally checking out of our relationship.

 

I have initiated marriage therapy, we have been to 3 sessions. The therapist is excellent, old, very experienced, trained at an internationally reknowned psychotherapy centre in London. The therapist says my husband never integrated into the couple and that he has a weak sense of himself as a result of his mother's treatment of him as a child. He said I am the strong one and my husband is much weaker and this is unbalanced. He asked me who was looking after me in the relationship. Did I get to be the vulnerable one and feel supported, the answer is no.

 

My husband is distraught at realising the extent of my unhappiness, that I have seriously considered leaving, with the realisation that his unconscious anxiety has done so much to damage our relationship. I am terrified of being in a sterile superficial marriage just for the sake of having some help with raising the kids and a roof over my head.

 

Things deteriorated after the kids were born and I suspect it is because I was no longer there solely for him. The worse thing ever for him was a period of some months where I had post natal depression after our second child was born, again because he had to stand on his own two feet.

 

I know he needs therapy. Husband is seeing a counsellor who is not actually a psychotherapist, he has fewer qualifications and doesn't probe into the deep issues. I know this is going to take time. We have been reading books like "I Lobe You But I'm Not In Love With You" which highlights some issues around emotionally checking out but isn;t addressing the big problems.

 

This is not your run of the mill long-term-relationship-I'm-fed-upitis. I'm seriously concerned I will never be able to have a healthy adult relationship with this man. I don't want perfection, I want a bloody good row with a man who doesn't wilt or walk away and who can be strong enough and emotionally there to support me. Isn't that a relationship basic? That I even have to ask this gives you some idea how confused I am about what is an acceptable, reasonable need for me to have in a relationship. I don't even know what it would look like for my husband to "be there" for me.

 

Any opinions, ideas, advice?

[oldshirt]

Women can't love and desire a man they don't respect and admire. You see him as weak and ineffectual as a man and have thus lost your respect for him and have thus lost your attraction and desire for him.

 

 

 

 

There really is no fix for this other than for him to grow a spine and some balls and start taking care of business.

 

 

It's good that he realizes the seriousness of the situation and hopefully he can pull himself up and start stepping up to the plate and showing some leadership, initiative and competence in your home, family and life.

 

 

Otherwise you are just going to continue to grow the resentment and bitterness and continue to disengage and check out from the marriage.

 

 

At this point it is just a matter of time before some guy that has his act together and shows strength and leadership will catch your eye and that will be all she wrote and will be the final nails in your marriages coffmin.

 

 

My only suggestion is to continue with the therapy and get him to realize the seriousness of the situation and make him understand what he has to lose if he doesn't grow a pair and start taking care of business as a man, husband and father.

 

 

He may rise to the occasion and become the man you need him to be. Or he may decide you are just nagging and riding his ass to make him into something he is not and doesn't want to be and he may shove back and throw in the towel and let you go.

 

 

I encourage you to make a stand and take kind of an all-or-nothing approach and either he steps up and you have a healthy and happy marriage and home life, or you allow him to be the man-boy he is and you seek a fair and amicable divorce and move on with your life while maintaining a fair and reasonable coparenting arrangement. Don't settle for trying to live with a man that is a parasite off of you that you do not love, desire, respect or admire. That will only cause prolonged misery, dissatisfaction and eventual infidelity in the long run.

[TiredFamilyGuy]

OP, what a contemptuous rant.

 

"He tries to control me especially with my emotional expression (I am not allowed to show anger or irritation". Intolerable. You should be allowed to have "a bloody good row" whenever you feel like it, that's a basic human need, clearly.

 

What a pusillanimous wretch he must be, to avoid conflict with someone who is only speaking plainly. He evidently has many mental problems, even to the point of being responsible for yours "I had post natal depression after our second child was born, again because he..."

 

OP, you clearly must leave this fellow. There is no good in him and you are so much better than that. The MC therapist you chose says you are strong and he is weak. That therapist gets respect! The one your husband chose to support him, is clearly poor and is not addressing your concerns.

 

I suppose your H is " some help with raising the kids and a roof over my head" but really, that's nothing.

 

Seriously however. You are utterly contemptuous of the entire man. Perhaps he is as unworthy as you paint him. Yet there is much in your post described as black and white with no nuance.

 

May I ask, do you treat him with respect in front of the kids? Do you pick fights in front of the kids?

[soccerrprp]

BritishBecca,

 

You've been married for 7-yrs! These things were not evident earlier on? It took you 7-yrs and 2 children later to come to this? Before you decided to have children, he didn't exhibit these tendencies, incompatible character traits?

 

Do you have any respect left for this man and if you do, how much and why?

[littleplanet]

Well, for starters, you're working on it.

How long before you decide that working on it isn't working?

(I'm almost tempted to ask....how did you survive 7 years of marriage and 2 kids?)

 

Your confusion, I think - comes from something deeply inherent inside of you that commands adult responsibility for your actions.

Unfortunately - this isn't balanced out in your husband at all.

 

He had his demons to wrestle with, and faults to overcome - for his own sake, let alone anyone else's.

And he did nothing about it.

 

I think you know full well in your own mind and heart - the road this will lead you down.....if it is not fixed, changed......or perhaps, ended.

And yes - you have two little ones to think about with all of that, too.

 

A question: does he know how to bond in a positive manner with his daughters?

I think that tells a lot.

 

In short: if he is a needy clingy child, then he is not actually a man.

He doesn't know how to be.

That there is not some spark inside him, some fire to learn how - speaks volumes.

 

Whatever fears inside him prevent this, cannot be overcome by you.

Only he can do that.

Good therapy can help........but it is only a tool. He needs to pick it up and finish the task.

 

Back to confusion: To wonder what it is that you really need in a relationship.....means, perhaps - that it is something foreign to your experience.

You have probably been overfunctioning on his behalf for a very long time.

You are his wife, not his mother.

If that's how you feel, however (strong emphasis on maternal support) then you do indeed have a third child.

[soccerrprp]

What I can't fathom is 7-yrs and 2 children....and NOW you are at your wits end?????

[Mr. Lucky]

OP, what a contemptuous rant.

Couldn't agree more. Would love to hear his side of this story...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Eivuwan]

OP, have you considered getting your own individual therapy? It might help you sort out your thoughts. Your husband clearly has some ingrained problems, but you chose to marry him. Now you are completely contemptuous of him and does not seem to see any good qualities in him at all. Just some food for thought.

[DeluxeYou]

I was reading this and telling myself....WOW, your husband's description is a PICTURE OF ME! (though my mum's disorder is not narcissism) That doesn't make me a bad person though and I'd love my future spouse to apply the vow "for better for worse" to me in this particular case coz probably it will be the negative aspect I would be bringing to the table.

 

Only difference is, I'm single, but I've been working on my issues. I've been seeing a good therapist and she's helping me to "unclog" my personality.

[BritishBecca]

Thank you for your replies, even the ones which border on rude and insulting. You are entitled to your views.

 

To answer a few questions. How did it take 7 years to get to this place?

 

At the start of our relationship my husband to be and I were in the middle of big and exciting changes to both our lives, we were changing career direction, he'd moved to London where I was, we met each other and fell in love, he quickly me more slowly.

 

He is tall, good looking, has first from Cambridge, we have things in common, he is affectionate, sociable and optimistic. This is why I married him. He is the opposite of my negative, unsociable, critical, pessimistic father. It is a well understood dynamic that people either marry someone like their parent if they got on with them or the opposite if they didn't.

 

But he is also people-pleasing, insecure, anxious, struggles to show emotion, finds others negative emotions hard to deal with and avoids conflict. He can be controlling and passive-aggressive.

 

In the early stages of our relationship there were some signs of his passive-aggressive side but the emotional neediness wasn't so evident. When you are loved up and infatuated it is normal to be in each other's pockets and spending lots of time together, holding hand, talking about "us" etc. Likewise when we moved in, got engaged, bought a house. It is not normal to still be constantly checking how I feel, to be wary of any perceived upset, to be overly involved in everything I do, insisting I hold his hand every time we walk down the street etc 7 years later. It is suffocating. He is struggling to allow me to be a separate person. Healthy relationships balance together with being independent.

 

Things started to change as the stresses of kids, his job insecurity, his difficult mother etc bore down on us after the honeymoon glow wore off. He seems to have collapsed back into old behaviours from his childhood and it slowly got worse.

 

I hope you can see how people's behaviour can change under circumstance and that stress does lead you to revert to old patterns if you haven't confronted and tackled them before. It is pretty naive to think what you are like in your mid twenties, single, having fun and child free is how you will be all your life. No one has a magic crystal ball to see into the future. You make a judgement on your partner and whether to marry them as best you can based on the information you had at the time.

 

My husband CAN NOT row, this means nothing is ever aired or cleared. He diverts the conversation or gets up and leaves if I raise a contentious topic. I am not a screaming harpy, good lord I am not allowed to raise my voice. There is no name calling, sneering or other unpleasant behaviour from either of us in front of the kids or anyone else. He says he feels so anxious that I will leave him if any confrontation occurs he just cuts me dead. Or he tells me I am talking too bluntly and should phrase it differently for him to listen, or he says my tone of voice is too harsh, or he says my body language is angry as I'm using my hands to make a point. He seems to think if there is no overt conflict, if there is a superficial appearance of calm, polite interaction then everything must be OK underneath. It is all about presenting the appearance of happy marriage without ever tackling anything that may be causing unhappiness. That is not sustainable.

 

He finds any strong emotional expression really hard to deal with. His father and sister are the same. After years of living with his screwed up mother they all struggle with talking openly, showing how they feel and act very uncomfortable around people showing their emotions. His sister has very dysfunctional relationships too. It is clear there is a pattern that has emerged over the years that reveals they have all been affected by their mother. I did not meet his mother until over a year of our relationship at which point I was in love and it was a done deal. She was horrible to me from the word go and I was gobsmacked. My husband's reaction was to say she was like that with everyone and I was angry but assumed he knew what he was doing, after all she was his mother and you don't go messing with your spouses relationship with their mother without damn good reason. It was only years later I realised what personality disorders were and how weird she really was. It became clear that she had quite serious problems and had done her whole life. But this was never discussed in the family, it was the big, fat elephant in the room.

 

My husband has a close relationship with his daughters, he loves them, but he finds their emotions hard to take as well. He cannot just leave them to throw a tantrum, he follows them round the house trying to placate them. He gets hurt if they say "I want Mummy". He is too much in their space at times, just as he is too much in my space. It is naturally worse with me as I am the main person he is bonded to and relies upon. He doesn't have a needy relationship with his 2 year old as she can't do anything for him!

 

Yes you have heard my side only. But I would point out that my side is held up by the marriage therapist. I practically cried with relief at the last session when the therapist started pointing out, gently, to my husband all the things I had been seeing but couldn't get him to see. No one, not one friend or family member supports his interpretation of me being an angry person. Even he has now accepted he has the anger problem in that he cannot face his own or anyone else's which is not normal.

 

Do I have any respect left for him? Yes but it is at a low ebb. He is not a nasty or violent person and he is struggling with these problems and trying to work on them. I am scared they will not be able to be fixed and then I will have to choose to stay with someone who is more of a dependent child in our relationship or face leaving him and finding a relationship with a more independent and adult man. I feel conned and desperately sad to find myself in this position. This was not how it looked that our marriage would turn out. I feel cheated.

Edited May 26, 2014 by BritishBecca

[TiredFamilyGuy]

Ok that's a bit clearer.

 

He is afraid of your anger. You are angry. He is afraid that you will leave him. You *are* thinking of leaving him, and perhaps saying so. He does not want to hear this. You are stuck.

 

For communication to work there must be something in it for both sides. At the very last ditch, that can be the alternative of Armageddon. It took that for my wife to stop the passive-aggressive BS and start talking. Maybe it will work for you.

 

Perhaps not. I was still fond of her, and could see she had many good qualities. You seem more...dismissive. Angry. If this is what you bring to a discussion, it will be more of a confrontation, he will sense this and clam up. As for "CAN NOT row" meaning cannot talk: if you yourself equate sorting things out with rowing, and he equates rowing with emotional pain, then you need to find a way to talk without heat. There is something perhaps in the idea that you think that clearing the air, having it out, being your authentic emotional self, involves being angry. Perhaps making it clear, that you will not allow your anger center stage for a discussion, will help him control himself to remain.

 

There are techniques. None will work without him doing his part. But they include him to have his say first, without you interrupting. Have sex first. Having a 5-minute-no-interruptions rule. Etc etc.

 

The conversation you need to have, is "His needs. Her needs." where the two are not perceived as exclusive. If you make it a battle, you win (because he won't fight) but you lose (because the win/lose paradigm is not one suitable for basing marriage discussions on)

 

I observe, you seem attached to the "people marry the same as or opposite to their parents" theory, having used it for him and you both. Do you think there is any of your "critical, pessimistic" father in you? You've had depression. You're critical.

 

Might be worth bearing in mind that your particular imperfections may be resonating with your husband's - which make them not his sole fault, but both of yours to own. If you insist on a "It's his fault. It's all his fault not me" interpretation, then it is unlikely that someone as bad as you make him sound will also take 100% of the problems upon himself and change as you desire.

 

What I am saying, is that without your support, he won't feel comfortable enough for change to work. Doesn't sound like that's there anymore, and you are checking out.

 

Just don't look for reasons to deprive him of full access to his children when you go.

Edited May 26, 2014 by TiredFamilyGuy

[mrs rubble]

Keep in mind, that your daughters have some of you MIL's DNA. If you can work out how to deal with the issues facing you now with your husband, you have a greater chance of dealing with it easier when/if your daughter's start to show signs of it too.

The way you describe things, makes me think that you have a pretty high opinion of yourself. Maybe you need to realize some of your faults too? Than perhaps your husband won't seem so inadequate.

[Eivuwan]

I understand that your husband has issues, but it seems to be at the point in which you have no more empathy left for him. If you really want things to work out, you have to do your part of the work in maintaining the relationship. Part of that is to start believing in him and start respecting him again. As much as you're tired of his neediness, he needs your support for the marriage to work. I think the question you have to ask yourself is how much you want this to work out.

[Holding-On]

OP

My advice would be to think very long and hard about the reality of divorce for your two children given the information you have above.

I understand this is a rant and your husband has good qualities but lets focus on the negative ones as if everything you've written is 100% unbiased truth:

1. your MIL: when you divorce you will no longer be able to have any influence on her influence on your daughters. The whole cycle could very well start again.

2. influences in general: There is no golden guarantee that you will get more that 50% of the parenting time.

3the normal response to separation by a scared/controlling personality. I strongly recommend "Splitting" by Bill Eddy about this kind of divorce

 

So ... possibly 50% or less parenting time with a man you don't think can handle himself emotionally much less his daughters.

I think that it is great that he is going. It's much harder to keep going to therapy when you are the "bad"/weak guy.

Maybe you can find some respect for him working to unplug his hardwiring.

I think your best bet is to work as hard as possible in therapy together and apart so that you can separate and know that your daughters are living part of the time with a man who is as healthy as possible. Again this will be easier on everyone when your girls are older.

How long are you willing to stay to invest in better home(s) for your daughters? If you imagine you are training yourselves for a better parenting and divorced future does that make it more bearable to you? (instead of imagining it as a lifetime with him, can you look ahead say 4/5 years to when your kids are in school?)