It's a mess.. Need

[Utahswimmer]

I will try and keep this as brief as possible.

 

Married now going on 20 years. Formerly Mormons but left the LDS church in 2007. Both of us were virgins prior to being married. After leaving the church we began investigating swinging lifestyle. In 2009 we became active swingers until we met a couple couple new to the lifestyle and I fell in love with the female. My wife later fell in love with the male side of this couple.

 

For three years we were in this foursome or quad. December if 2013, I broke up with other female. My wife does not want to break up with other male. During the three years we were exclusive to the quad, and now my wife wants to begin swinging again.

 

My wife's and I relationship is complicated due to normal relationship issues throughout 20 years of marriage, compounded by the poly relationship and swinging. My wife and I are estranged but live in the same house still. Very have 5 children, 18 years or younger. But my falling in love with the other couples female, 3 years ago. Is the big reason my wife is pushing me away right now. Though she knew and was okay with the relationship originally, she now admits that my new relationship energy with the other woman caused her to turn off her feelings towards me.

 

Since the breakup with my girlfriend, I've reached out and have been rebuffed by my wife. She admittedly is struggling with what she claims is her ability to let me back. She says she loves me, but she said she's worried she can't let go of the wall she's built. It's difficult right now, I've had many trusted friends who know me who think I should move on. My gut still tells me to wait a little longer.

 

One of the problems I'm starting to see now. We have made strides in reconnecting, however, most of her intimate energy goes into her other relationship. There also is the fatigue I have regarding the swinging lifestyle. Though we were not active for 3 years , we still attended social events. One of my main issues is the type of people you associate and sexually connect with in the lifestyle. It's something I've always struggled with and I think now I probably fell in love to change up what I wasn't enjoying in the lifestyle. My wife loves the lifestyle, she gets attention which she eats up, and though she admits the sex isn't that exciting she admits she is addicted to the chase. She said having sex is a way to make the other person happy.

 

This alarmed me. She admitted early in our marriage that she was sexually assaulted by her brother. It only happened once, so she didn't consider it abuse. She thinks because she talked it over with her brother once later as an adult that she's fine now. I'm wondering though.

 

So basically here is my problem. Since breaking up with my girlfriend, in the process of trying to reconnect with my wife. I've realized how much I still love her. My initial instinct of attempting to win her back caused her to rebuff me. She claimed I was smothering. Since I've focused mostly on myself, working on my own character flaws. It had caused her to come back, though I'm seeing we both have changed. I want to be more family focused, career focused and plan for the future. All she seems to want to do is party and extend her relationship with the other guy as long as she can. The problem is that the other guy is never leaving his wife for my wife. He and his wife though extremely independent, are very much in love and able to compartmentalize the different relationships.

 

Right now my wife is pushing me to swing again. I'm unsure if I want to. Without our relationship healing I think it's just a way to kick the can down the road for her. Based on my own previous choices, I don't feel like I can tell ger she needs to break up with her boyfriend. I've been resisting the swinging with other couples and she's been pushing to allow her to go with her boyfriend.

 

So here are my questions.

 

I've decided to try to save the relationship for my children and because I feel a sense of responsibility for the mess. So do I...

 

1. Continue to go swinging, though I don't enjoy it? I'm sure I could have fun, I'm very social, but some of the people and attitudes make my skin crawl.

 

2. Not resist her desire to go swinging on her own or with this boyfriend. I'm having a big concern with this. I'm wondering if it will matter anyway right now with her. If letting her have complete freedom, is it worth the concerns about STDs and jealousies I will have to deal with as she explores.

 

3. Do I put down boundaries with her that could cause her to leave me now. Though I won't ask her to break up with her boyfriend because I feel I would be the biggest hypocrite ever, I don't have a problem throwing down my boundaries regarding what happens in our home. I know I can't control what she does outside our home or her, but I can keep our home an environment that doesn't resemble a college frat house.

 

 

I guess I'm trying to determine how much I'm willing to take and for how long. I did fall in love with another woman. I betrayed her heart, though I think we were both naive believing we could have sex with others and never let that happen. I love my wife deeply, I love my children. I've wracked my heart and mind to figure a way to work through it. I just can't find a decision yet that brings me peace .

[oldshirt]

i am a swinger myself so I'll try to address this from a swingers perspective.

 

1. Continue to go swinging, though I don't enjoy it? I'm sure I could have fun, I'm very social, but some of the people and attitudes make my skin crawl.

 

this just simply won't work. In order for a swinging relationship to work, both parties must be into it and both deriving somewhat equitable benefits. The lifestyle is so female-centric she would be basked in attention and opportunities whereas you would just be sitting in the corner growing more and more bitter and resentfull untill things boiled over and really blew up.

 

 

2. Not resist her desire to go swinging on her own or with this boyfriend. I'm having a big concern with this. I'm wondering if it will matter anyway right now with her. If letting her have complete freedom, is it worth the concerns about STDs and jealousies I will have to deal with as she explores.

 

this is simply giving up and putting your balls on the shelf and giving up everything that means to be a man. She would be getting all her fun and excitement outside the marriage and she would lose all respect for you and treat you like the maid and babysitter.

 

She would likely never have any sexual feelings for you ever again and you would live out your days in a sexless marriage.

 

And again your bitterness and resentment would grow untill things blew up and left nothing scorched Earth.

 

3. Do I put down boundaries with her that could cause her to leave me now. Though I won't ask her to break up with her boyfriend because I feel I would be the biggest hypocrite ever, I don't have a problem throwing down my boundaries regarding what happens in our home. I know I can't control what she does outside our home or her, but I can keep our home an environment that doesn't resemble a college frat house.

 

 

i think this is your only option although my most strenuous recommendation is to take an all-or-nothing approach and pose it as a traditional monogamous marriage or divorce proposition.

 

Your hypocrisy concerns have no merit because you gave swinging a try and it didn't work for you two. It was a failed experiment. By your logic, no failure could ever be corrected because someone came up with the idea.

 

Now you obviously need to go into it being ready, willing and able for her to take the divorce option and you need to be ok with that and ready to do it.

 

It may be a hassle to get a divorce but your marriage is already in shambles and you really don't have any more to lose now.

 

It will only be through strength and boundaries that either your marriage and your sanity and well being will survive.

 

.

 

My response s to your questions are in bold above.

 

This situation is more closely related to infidelity and misplaced affections than it is to swinging.

 

You two weren't really swinging for all practical purposes, but instead were disengaging and disconnecting from each other and went looking for replacement relationships. ....You just simply gave each other preapproaval to do it.

 

The way to correct this is roughly the same as the way to reconcile an affair, which will require both parties to -

 

admit a failed experiment,

 

- make conscious decision to repair damage and be willing put forth the effort (which in your case will be a lot of effort for a long time)

 

- go completely NC with affair partners with complete transparency.

 

- Do not seek any sexual outlets outside of marriage, regardless of if it would be consensual or not.

 

- seek in depth, comprehensive marital counseling and therapy.

 

- will probably need IC for both parties as well.

 

 

 

As is the case with almost all incidents involving disengagement from the marriage and falling in love outside the marriage, it may be quicker, cheaper and easier to pursue a fair and amicable divorce.

 

Be prepared for that because that may very well be her choice.

Edited May 27, 2014 by oldshirt

[Mr. Lucky]

Not a swinger so I have no insight into that complicated and complicating part of your marital situation.

 

My counsel would simply be to figure out what you want, draw your line in the sand and make a stand for those values. If they now include monogamy and a more conventional relationship, I wouldn't compromise. Otherwise, I'd anticipate your presence here years from now asking the same questions...

 

Mr. Lucky

[oldshirt]

Not a swinger so I have no insight into that complicated and complicating part of your marital situation.

 

My counsel would simply be to figure out what you want, draw your line in the sand and make a stand for those values. If they now inclonogamy andagercventional relationship, I wouldn't compromise. Otherwise, I'd anticipate your presence here years from now asking the same questions...

 

Mr. Lucapitulate

 

It's not really that complicated. At it's core it's simply a case of one person wanting an exclusive relationship and the other person wanting to keep their options open and playing the field.

 

It all just comes Down to a matter of boundaries and what each person is willing or not willing to do.

 

If both people agree to exclusivity then they close the marriage and work at maintaining a traditional marriage.

 

If she digs in her heels and won't go exclusive and he capitulates, then he lives as a cuckold and grows resentful and unhappy.

 

If he digs in his heels and she capitulates, then she runs the risk of frustration and dissatisfaction.

 

If neither caves, then the marriage folds.

 

What separates this from two single people in a dating scenario is the stakes involved as they have minor children together and mortgage etc.

[Mr. Lucky]

Mr. Lucapitulate

 

Funny...

 

It's not really that complicated. At it's core it's simply a case of one person wanting an exclusive relationship and the other person wanting to keep their options open and playing the field.

 

I'm glad you don't think that one person wanting monogamy and the other polyamory is a complication. Not sure how much agreement you're going to find...

 

Mr. Lucky

[oldshirt]

Funny...

 

 

 

I'm glad you don't think that one person wanting monogamy and the other polyamory is a complication. Not sure how much agreement you're going to find...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Sorry about the name, that was an autocorrect fail :-o

 

It may be difficult situation and there may be a lot at stake and it may be difficult or even impossible to work out to everyone's mutual satisfaction but it is as simple as two people wanting different things in relation to having an exclusive relationship or not.

 

It's not really a swinging issue any more either. That experiment failed a long long time ago.

 

This is more closely related to a dating issue where one person wants to have an exclusive relationship and the other doesn't. Or at least doesn't want to with them.

 

Their "marriage" ended a long time ago. They just never got around to updating their legal status or doing the paperwork.