H strategically staying married for spousal support

[carhill]

So, what's your goal for MC and how will you qualify your counselor? Interviews go both ways. A good counselor facilitates and guides and is conversant with the specific issues involved. In your case, you appear to have a non-traditional household with yourself in the breadwinner position and your H as a non-income producing SAHD. That dynamic brings unique issues to the table, both from a practical standpoint as well as from the psychological and societal standpoints. A counselor who is experienced in such matters should be able to provide a plan of action and relevant tools, explained in simple terms, to facilitate you and your H along the path of continuing or to clearly decide to move on separately.

 

I can't speak to your jurisdiction, relevant to the 'staying married for spousal support', but in mine, if the spouse is educated and/or employable, and the divorce is contested, the bench will certainly consider arguments regarding that issue. However, arguments cost money and, well, unless H has a trust fund, you'll be paying to argue with him in front of a judge or in briefs. IMO, far healthier to reconcile or mediate it out and move on. At most, I'd negotiate a short-term support setup and mitigate it with a similar relief against professional practice/retirement, etc. There's a lot of ways to get it done, if MC points to a D.

 

Good luck. BTDT, except I was a caregiver and not a SAHD. ExW didn't pay me spousal support. It worked out!

[beach]

So are you saying that you are raising two children?

 

Why is the burden on you? He should be capable of working! So many people with disabilities find a way to work!

 

But he won't - as long as you just keep providing for him.

 

Have you always played this role?

 

When YOU change things - he will also be forced to make changes.

 

Until you do - he won't do anything differently.

 

So what are you planning to change?

[jakrbbt]

 

 

I hope this crazy story was entertaining and helpful at the same time.

 

Oh my gosh, I loved that story. I read it again on my smartphone screen when I couldn't sleep. Yes, it is strange how such intelligent and self-sufficient people can tumble into the abyss of bad relationships. If I applied the same responsibility and confidence to matters of the heart and home as I have to my studies and profession, I'd have a much better situation for sure.

 

And I am thinking short-term, you are right. My desire not to rock the boat now, my need to avoid discomfort now, is probably bad for all three of us. Ever since I quit my job with a bully boss and then got kidnapped at gunpoint, I've had this idea that I needed to be comfortable. I have broken three leases finding better places (this one is the best i'll find by far). I have to examine that. I got some excellent EMDR treatment, but the therapist was in my old city 2 hrs away. It might be worth it to travel for more treatment, she was that good and fully covered by benefits.

 

there goes my 1-yr-old waking up from nap, so much to say but gotta go.

[beach]

You can't be taken advantage of unless you allow it.

 

Stop allowing it.

[Yasuandio]

Is his "disability" measurable? Is it a cognitive dysfunction? Is he receiving any sort of treatment or therapy (talk therapy or occupational therapy)?

 

When was the last he was assessed by a professional? This cuts both ways. A the question is, is this disability, that you have not exactly identifed, receiving consistent treatment management - as disabilities should? If not, With is strange conduct in mind, I would, again, raise some concerns about him being with this child. As I said before, I'd put a nanny cam in there just to rule out any other unusual behavior - just to be on the safe side. Especially if he hasn't been assessed. Learning disabilities, any disability can be very damn frustrating. If anything, he may qualify for assistance - that is one outstanding reason to encourage him visit an expert.

 

Is it possible you are in a "dual caretaker" role and not even realize it? If so, Mommy can always say "No," period. Now baby might have a tantrum and pout - but that is his problem. You are in control of the purse strings, Madam.

 

Yes, that book. I should like totally read it, but I'm still not sure I wanna know. Hope this helps. Yas

[jakrbbt]

Things have just gone from bad to worse. I was just trying to help h get a printer to work on his iPad when I accidentally saw an old message from one of his close friends/family about "gathering the troops" and helping him leave me. That was 2 months ago and he's been pretty strange the last 2 months, I knew something was up but now I'm more sure than ever, he's preparing his maneuver. He sees me as the enemy and he perceives that he has some kind of backup "troops" against me. Now all I can do is either sit back and hope I'm wrong, or file separation so as least the situation freezes as far as courts are concerned. Baby sleeps in late and would never nap at a day care, I hate to change his little routine. I was oddly shivering and trying not to cry when I found out, and h rtold me to please leave because I was waking him up. (I was near his room.) Now I have to prepare a pretty important brief for work... ugh, focus... could use some cheerleaders on the work issue.

 

Could h be having an affair? I guess it doesn't much matter asset this point, but it hurts to think he might be. I have absolutely no idea where he goes every evening. I'm certainly not willing to spy and I'm too busy anyway, but I wish he'd just tell me so we can not drag things out.

Edited June 2, 2014 by jakrbbt

[carhill]

When I was prepping for my D, my lawyer helped me better understand the concept of 'MAD' (mutual assured destruction) and the Nash equilibrium as related to the divorce process, as the parties to the lawsuit are for all intents and purposes enemies. The key is negotiating a treaty that gives each side enough of what they want so they don't launch their missiles, destroying each other and, in the case of divorce, making the lawyers wealthy.

 

I do get what you mean about 'rallying the troops', as my exW did that, including some of my good friends. My main 'troop' was incoherent and dying at the time, so it was me and my lawyer and whatever wits and strategies we could muster up.

 

You'll get through it. Sucks to have to try to focus on clients (I'm not a lawyer but also have clients) but IMO you can get through it if you focus on each day individually. Get through that day and try to identify one success for the day to hang your hat on. Doesn't have to be a big one.

 

Could H be having an affair? Yes, he could be. Anything is possible. His actions/thoughts are as unknown to you as yours are to him. It's a two-way street. Make it work for you. Best wishes and my sympathies. Divorces are like death except one keeps on breathing. It'll work out.

[Yasuandio]

Sorry to hear this hon. But best you have reality to snap you out of that. Denial. Really, I'm feeling it for u too -- I know what it's like. Yas

[BetrayedH]

Sorry to hear it. Again, try to make decisions with your head, rather than your emotions. I do think it's time for that serious sit-down. Avoiding the conflict just seems to be fueling resentment, which is typically how it works.

[Yasuandio]

I wouldn't have a "sit down" about jack, with a known secret enemy that I support under my own roof. Eff that. Let him lie in the MC!

 

Whatever you do, don't show your badge! You are undercover now.

 

As you know, the only thing people have in Court is their Credibility. He would never admit that information you found. And there is no reason to introduce it into evidence unless he lies. Then Wammo. You got a great card there. He is devious and been using you. That is going to help you. Say nothing, and start digging.

 

The minute you open your mouth, the trail will go dead. I know it is unpleasant - but you must fight to get this dic outta your life as much as The will allow. How disgusting he is. Mine had a secret plan too. But I got him out immediately. Oh, dear. Good thing he isn't under my roof. I wouldn't do well in prison. I do not know how you are finding the strength to handle this situation, your demanding profession, and a child. OMG. Yas

[BetrayedH]

We already knew that he'd seen a divorce attorney. So has she, for that matter. An old message doesn't change much, in my opinion.

 

I still think the OP needs to sit down sith her H, communicate her needs, and allow him to respond. She wanted to give this six months of MC. If he's willing, great. If he's not, then she can work towards an amiable divorce. If he doesn't play fair, she can go into protective mode.

[Yasuandio]

We already knew that he'd seen a divorce attorney. So has she, for that matter. An old message doesn't change much, in my opinion.

 

I still think the OP needs to sit down sith her H, communicate her needs, and allow him to respond. She wanted to give this six months of MC. If he's willing, great. If he's not, then she can work towards an amiable divorce. If he doesn't play fair, she can go into protective mode.

 

With all due respect, BetrayedH, it is now a fact that her H (and his troops) have been secretly "playing unfair," and have a two month jump. On OP already. Does not his position seem clear? A "sit down" will expose the single card OP has - the element of surprise, and the opportunity to gather any additional evidence to help her case. She will need it in the child custody dimension of arguments. The weird guy could fight her for full custody - or she must take this position mentally at least and hope for the best.

 

Furthermore, a sit-down with a liar is a total waste of time - she cannot trust him and his troops, after discovering his plot (or a tiny piece thereof). I say gather more evidence (for one, have computer forensically examined, and secondly, see where he is going). Continue to act dumb. Get all documented the real time he spends with child on nanny cams (I am really concerned abouth what goes on there when he is alone with child). Get your time with child documented. Time stamp the moment he walks out the door with a photograph on your cell phone. GPS his car. Your firm has private detectives, and H will be easy to catch at this moment. That is your best bet. They will give you a good deal - you only need one detective to tail him from your house, not a team. This is a question that needs an answer ASAP. Like tomorrow. Once you open your month - where he has been going will remain a mystery forever. Just do it, and thank me later. Yas

 

PS. You never thought in your mind he would be lining up troops (his family) to extridite himself from the marriage, did you? Don't be surprised by what else you find out. My gut is telling me this is very bad. I'm telling you, don't open your mouth.

[beach]

You had the idea that things were to end - and now you have evidence that he is planning for it (you knew that too).

 

What difference does it make?

 

Take action to DO it - especially since it's inevitable.

 

It hasn't been a great union - so changing things by divorcing presents the "possibility" that you COULD BE happier when it ends, no?

[jakrbbt]

Thanks everyone, all extremely helpful comments that I've clung to. I'm trying to remember that a divorce where everyone ends up ok is very possible, and that helps as I more and more get the sinking feeling that we can't make it.

 

Good point BetrayedH--- there's actually no new information. But I had a feeling that something was new... and here it is: H is still carrying on the same unsettling relationship with his sister, though now it's covert. I'd thought it had settled into something less intense. I'll explain.

 

From early in our relationship H has shared very many intimate details about us with his sister. I asked him to stop, and he was offended and basically said out shouldn't bother me. She would frequently go on our dates with us without anyone asking me first, which I found weird. Once , during the 2 years we lived a couple hours apart, I specifically asked h for an intimate date and he said ok. We met at someone else's house as planned, and his sister was there and when we walked out the door for our date she just came with us. Mind you, I was at least 31 and h and sister both in their mid-30s... we weren't kids. Once when he lived worth her and came to visit me overnight, she called him to invite herself over (to my STUDIO apartment) because she was feeling sad and didn't want to be without him... nothing that I'd have remembered except that they were both offended when I said no. She and he completely ignore me when we're all together, whether we're with a bunch of other people or just the three of us. When I first lived with h, he and she would text all evening, Very late into the night, pretty much every night. And now she seems to be communicating with him all about our marriage/possible divorce and likely giving him some unfounded advice.

 

THat whole relationship is just not something I'm willing to deal with. I'm not interested in making them feel bad about it or arguing with him over it--he's been pretty explicit that my opinion isn't welcome anyway. But however v they want to behave, it's not something i expected when I started dating him, and even though I should have realized it wouldn't change, it's not something I'm at all willing to have as part of my marriage and my life in future years. Uh uh. If I bring out up in MC, I'm pretty sure h there will be an unpleasant scene.

Edited June 3, 2014 by jakrbbt

[beach]

That sounds creepy like incestual. (Sp)

 

Good riddance! If he intends to act married to her - let him go.

[Yasuandio]

This guy wants divorce and his sister is one of his closest troopers on team. MC ain't gonna come no where near neutralizing the "unpleasant" battle zone. Just forget. Better to keep your information and opinions to yourself. Lose lips sink ships. Keep everything to yourself. War is Hell. Keep it shut. Stay nice. Get info. It might be life-saving intel you retrieve. You just never know what you are going to find out until the dig get's started. PI & Nanny Cam are number one priorities in my book. Especially with this weirdo sister fixation on the table now. Better safe than sorry with a person that has odd proclivities with a sibling, strange marital conduct, and noted but apparently undiagnosed [learning] disability of some sort, that may or may not have progressed. But it is your child and your call. Yas

 

PS. I will tell you, honestly, I would even never trust myself alone with a child, at this point in my life. I even had a career as a Professor, where I did teach an elementary art education class, and supervised Student Teachers In the public schools. I am an expert in children' artistic development - but I have never had children. I am not crazy about kids - but I do love their untrained artistic expression - but only in a cold clinical way, now. (I used to love the to see the children at the school and talk to them about their art work - that was a key piece of my research data). Since developing my disability, children have become an extreme irritant to me - but no one would be able to detect it from my demeanor. I'll never be able to do that profession again, as it appears, with my disability (which began with depression). I just don't have the patience to talk to little ones any more, really, neither adults either. See - you never know what is going on in a disabled person's mind, it is so frustrating not to be normal like others.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Yasuandio
PS added to show personal experience.

[jakrbbt]

Well I guess I could stop worrying about what is essentially just one more incompatibility. I don't want to judge their sibling relationship any more then I'd want them to judge my unwillingness to have it in my marriage--though like you Yas, I have wondered whether it could be a sign of untrustworthiness.

 

Nanny cam...I don't want to do anything that I'd hate him doing to me. I can't imagine actually spying and hearing him maybe talk on the phone, seeing him pick his nose or whatever. Our baby is clearly very well adjusted and healthy and strongly bonded to H. They can't hear me coming home until I'm actually in the door and the timing varies widely sometimes--things always seem fine. But if there's ever a doubt, I'll do what it takes to protect baby. Others including my mother who raised seven of us have observed that h is just fine with our baby.

 

I have come to the conclusion that my greatest aspiration in this is to comport myself with love and respect throughout the divorce if there is a divorce. I hope we come out respecting and caring about each other--tall orderr?

 

Much as I don't want a divorce, I can see h not trying at all. Possibly he's done. the best hope for an amiable divorce is if we do it relatively soon, before there's anything to fight about. (That is, before it's at all likely that a judge would award support.) More reason for timeline and for telling him about timeline.

 

We have found an excellent counselor who will eventually talk us through divorce options if it looks like that's where we 're going. If we're going to divorce, I'd want to offer h:

 

Pay him the same amount that I'd have had to pay a lawyer in a retainer anyway (this only works if we avoid a contested divorce). That's $2500-- is pay it over the course of one year. Give him the second car that I bought for $2,000. I waive child support for 2 years and I'm sure I'd continue to waive as long add I make more money than he does. That way we could 're-assess custody as desired, but i'd want at least 50 and am willing to take 100 with very lax visitation from h. However, start with 50-50 custody except that baby sleeps with me if we think he needs to. Right of first refusal whenever child will be in day care for more than 4 hours. Daily contract with both parents whenever possible while baby is under three. Half the stuff I buy baby, I give to h to give to him so mommy isn't the only one giving him toys and clothes.

 

I hate the contentious feeling more than anything except the fear of losing my child.

 

Also Yas, I never answered, he's disability is ADD. I don't see it, but he says it's quite frustrating and I believe him. I know he was assessed as a child and I don't actually think he's been assessed since. Occupational therapy might be extremely useful, that'd be nice. I believe in him, but I can't do it for him.

Edited June 3, 2014 by jakrbbt

[Yasuandio]

That is interesting. Im fighting the symptoms of ADHD right now - as I dont like the medicine, and I cannot afford the much better time-released version (it is basically anfedimines). Here is a clear fact I cannot deny. When I don't take my ADHD medication, I am a huge SLUG. Cannot move. It is possible for me to sleep 24/7.

 

There are some similarities between ADD and ADHD. As you probably know, besides attention defiect disorder, the latter presents hyperactivity. I guess they stick an "A" in front of the acronym to signify it is the adult version.

 

It must sound like I am a hypochondriac. But all of these weird symptoms seemed to develop on or about the same few years I became depressed. First, severe depression, ADHD, anxiety, severe anxiety, IBS, tremors, panic attacks, paranoia. Then some years passed, and I had a series of shocking experiences. Suddenly, there was onset of this dang bi-polar 2 disorder. I didn't want to believe it, ignored symptoms, didn't want the extra meds, then, my the trail of my conduct finially convinced me, after 2 years or so.

 

When the Forensic Doctor testified at the Divorce trial - he made quite a point about leaving any mental illness and disability untreated. He stated that untreated bi-pilot to can turn into schzo-affective disorder. That was pretty scary news. And truthfully -- I have to admit, I am absolutely useless with that speed - my thinking pattern is skewed - it has to be this ADHD thing. I was alwas troublesome in school, and even shafted to retard class, as they called back then. My mom raised hell, and I ended up, after some other teenage trouble, eventually in gifted/talented art programs.

 

I remember a young boy (son of a potential tenant) telling me, with his head down in shame, that he had ADD and was Hyperactive. I told him, "Kid, hold your head high, you are very unique! We have the same thing! And both of us and think of a million things at one time, do you know what I mean? That is really totally cool - no one else can do that!" And he was so surprised that an adult knew exactly what it felt like! He was an expert at Video games just like me - we compared notes - cause we both were champs in our own mudium. I explain to him "the ADD helps us see everything happening on the screen at one time - and we can handle all surprises, and our fingers can think separately, as fast as bullets, like they have there own brains! No one can beat - Right?" He had same experience as I. I made that kid's day. His parent's too. When they found out I had Ph.D., they were smiling ear to ear! But they were too cheap to pay my rental price.

 

ADHD people just get agitated because everyone seems to moving like stupid turtles!! Or, on the other hand, we can just pass out. It is a strange disorder - and adults respond differently to it from what I understand. I wonder if your husband would agree to treatment. Man, does it make difference. Like night and day. Dossage has to be right. That may be why I've been unhappy - and doctor already lowered from 30 to 20 per my request and it is easier to tolerate the cheaper stuff now. You can really tell when I took my medicine - look at this post! Haha!

 

Maybe this is helpful information. I dunno. The manic is going a bit, so judgment could be slightly impaired. (But you did say you liked last ADHD story). I included also for you to see the cluster of problems that ADD type disorders can be also associated with. I'm sure it is a reason for my trouble in public school. Nite nite, Hon. Yas