To unnamed, Rob

[sparkle]

Dear unnamed and Rob,

 

You have a right to be happy, but don't forget, SO DO your girlfriends!! You don't have the right to judge them or decide whether what they did was wrong or not. You have to realize not everyone will feel the same way about everything as you do. You DEFINITELY don't have the right to ask them to change, or trying to make them change to meet your needs. That's nuts!

 

No one forced you to talk to these girls. No one forced you to stay in a relationship with them. It was all out of

 

YOUR

 

OWN

 

FREE

 

WILL.

 

Don't try to make their life miserable by bringing this stuff up. Once you heard about their past, and once you realized that you could not accept them because of it, or that it would bother you, then why stick with them? To torture them by mentioning it to them? Or make them go through a crappy relationship with you because you can't control your thoughts?

 

It's your responsibility to get out of a relationship when you're not happy with it. You can't wait and expect the other person to change for you. Do them a favor and move on.

 

Here's something I received in an e-mail. I thought it may be helpful.

 

-----------

 

Personal Bill of Rights

 

1. I have a right to follow my own values and standards.

 

2. I have a right to dignity and respect.

 

3. I have a right to express myself as long as I live.

 

4. I have a right to all of my feelings.

 

5. I have a right to make decisions based on my feelings and my judgement for any reason.

 

6. I have a right to determine and honor my own priorities.

 

7. I have a right to my personal space and time needs.

 

8. I have a right to be uniquely me, without feeling I'm not good enough.

 

9. I have a right to have my needs and wants respected by others.

 

10. I have a right to feel scared and to say, "I'm afraid".

 

11. I have a right to say "no" when I feel I am not ready, it's unsafe or violates my values.

 

12. I have a right to say "not yet" when I feel I'm not ready, it's unsafe or violates my values.

 

13. I have a right to change my mind at any time.

 

14. I have a right to make mistakes and not have to be perfect.

 

15. I have a right to forgive others and to forgive myself.

 

16. I have a right to terminate conversations for any reason.

 

17. I have a right to make friends and be comfortable around people.

 

18. I have a right to not be responsible for others' behavior, actions, feelings or problems.

 

19. I have a right to give and to receive unconditional love.

 

20. I have a right to enjoy being sexual and celebrate my sexuality.

 

21. I have the right to be loving and giving.

 

22. I have a right to healthy relationships of my choice.

 

23. I have a right to trust others who earn my trust.

 

24. I have the right to change and grow.

 

25. I have the right to be happy.

 

***26. I have a right to and accept the responsibility to honor the rights of others regarding all of the above.

[catt]

Dear unnamed and Rob, You have a right to be happy, but don't forget, SO DO your girlfriends!! You don't have the right to judge them or decide whether what they did was wrong or not. You have to realize not everyone will feel the same way about everything as you do. You DEFINITELY don't have the right to ask them to change, or trying to make them change to meet your needs. That's nuts! No one forced you to talk to these girls. No one forced you to stay in a relationship with them. It was all out of YOUR OWN FREE WILL. Don't try to make their life miserable by bringing this stuff up. Once you heard about their past, and once you realized that you could not accept them because of it, or that it would bother you, then why stick with them? To torture them by mentioning it to them? Or make them go through a crappy relationship with you because you can't control your thoughts? It's your responsibility to get out of a relationship when you're not happy with it. You can't wait and expect the other person to change for you. Do them a favor and move on. Here's something I received in an e-mail. I thought it may be helpful. ----------- Personal Bill of Rights 1. I have a right to follow my own values and standards. 2. I have a right to dignity and respect.

 

3. I have a right to express myself as long as I live. 4. I have a right to all of my feelings.

 

5. I have a right to make decisions based on my feelings and my judgement for any reason.

 

6. I have a right to determine and honor my own priorities. 7. I have a right to my personal space and time needs. 8. I have a right to be uniquely me, without feeling I'm not good enough. 9. I have a right to have my needs and wants respected by others. 10. I have a right to feel scared and to say, "I'm afraid". 11. I have a right to say "no" when I feel I am not ready, it's unsafe or violates my values. 12. I have a right to say "not yet" when I feel I'm not ready, it's unsafe or violates my values. 13. I have a right to change my mind at any time. 14. I have a right to make mistakes and not have to be perfect. 15. I have a right to forgive others and to forgive myself. 16. I have a right to terminate conversations for any reason. 17. I have a right to make friends and be comfortable around people. 18. I have a right to not be responsible for others' behavior, actions, feelings or problems.

 

19. I have a right to give and to receive unconditional love. 20. I have a right to enjoy being sexual and celebrate my sexuality. 21. I have the right to be loving and giving.

 

22. I have a right to healthy relationships of my choice. 23. I have a right to trust others who earn my trust. 24. I have the right to change and grow.

 

25. I have the right to be happy. ***26. I have a right to and accept the responsibility to honor the rights of others regarding all of the above.

[unnamed]

Many people here are taking a stab at finding the 'cure', and I know Rob and myself are very willing to listen. We do not choose to be like this. Its something natural, I suppose; both of us have a sensitive nature, and thus seeing your girlfriend with another man will irritate and bring someone down emotionally.

 

My problem is different, and I may be called a fool for this. My girlfriend has never slept with another man before, but she fooled around; basically everything but.

 

Although I broke up with my gf earlier today, an hour later or so we got back together. I came out of class and I kissed her right away -- no talking, nothing. She knew it, and so did I.

 

But it just got worse later in the day. I had another episode, a bad one, and then another one. We just decided to take a break - she said I need one from her. What a girl. She wants to stay with me even if this break doesn't work.

 

I don't know... I got knee-deep in a heavy conversation on the phone with my girlfriend while I was writing this, so I lost my train of thought. Sorry. Maybe it will come back to me later.

[Ed]

You have the right to feel any way you choose to feel about your gf's past relations with other men.

 

My concern about your situation and that of Rob is really one of "HOW this information came to be know" and not "WHAT came to be known". Let me explain further. A person can only divulge information about their past partners in one of two ways:

 

1) Someone asks them directly and they choose to answer.

 

2) They volunteer it without being asked.

 

There are VERY different motives involved with each of these options, but both seem to boil down to issues of self-confidence, self-worth and insecurities on one side or the other.

 

1) You ask someone about their past or someone asks you about your past. WHY? Why do you need this information? Why are they asking you for this information? What purpose does this serve? Almost always, the reasoning behind asking or being asked has to do with the lack of self-confidence and security with one person or the other.

 

2) Someone starts telling you about their past sexual relations or you start telling someone about your past sexual relations. Why would you or someone else start telling the details of what you have done and to whom? In most cases, the person doing the telling is trying to convince another that they are experienced and therefore desirable. Here again, a confidence and security issue.

 

It takes a very mature person to deal with this kind of talk when you are in a committed relationship involving love and/or sex. It's not that two people should not explore their sexual selves and that of their partner, but the kind of information being shared that's critical. It's good to know some things about your partner. But what you need to know is "what you or your partner likes or doesn't like" not "whether it's been done or who it's been done with"

 

Is this getting through to anyone out there?

 

For Rob and unnamed - You really need to look at why you asked for this information or why it was told to you. Then try to work on it from there. Maybe both of you just need to learn from this and move on to other partners, I don't know. One thing you need to do for sure is LEARN FROM THIS.

[unnamed]

You certainly have two valid points. I fall under the first category, asking the partner.

 

I asked her before we started seeing each other, for the following reason: all my life I grew up without sexual experience, and I searched for a partner who was similar. Of course, the chances of getting her were slim, but I looked. I did not find. But I had a preference to marry a woman who was never involved sexually. Why, you ask? Simple. I wanted sex to be two-way. Both of us would have no clue what we were doing, everything would be new, the feelings would be far more intimate and exhilirating, and we could learn from each other's mistakes, likes and dislikes. Does that not sound like a suitable want for nearly any man or woman? Does to me.

 

I have a few more things to add about myself. Before we started dating, I looked for the 'perfect' woman. I tried seeing some people, but they just never appealed to me. I lost interest the minute I got involved. The women I wanted I never got. The women I didn't particularly want, I got, but then rid of them. With my current girlfriend, this image dissapeared. There are two reasons why; one, it was meant to be that I would avoid other women to be with her, and two, that she exceeded that perfect images I had.

 

In addition to this, I was just about to start seeing a woman before my current girlfriend. Note the "just about."

 

You see, I had found out she had sex previously, but I never clicked it. It, in a way, skipped my mind. But I remembered it one day while a friend mentioned something, and not too long after, I ended it with her. I simply couldn't handle the fact that she had been with another guy. Not only did I not want sex, but I didn't want someone who had already had sex.

 

--

 

Before my current girlfriend and I started going out, we were talking one night and I asked her what all she had done. She told me a few things, but not all. I lied to her about fooling around with a girl. This, of course, came out later. I was totally inexperienced and untouched... a wonderful thing for my girlfriend.

 

Well, I stood on the other end. I was forced to deal with her having a sexual history. And, for some reason (most likely the fact that we were meant to go out), I forgot about her past and asked her out.

 

A few months into the relationship her past rarely bothered me, but it did occasionally. It wasn't anything to severe, but mild.

 

Four months into the relationship we were talking one night about each other's pasts. She noted another male she had fooling around with. I asked her if that was all, and she said yes. I was hurt, but I was glad that was it. It didn't seem like I couldn't handle. But little did I know what was coming...

 

Five months into the relationship, on our six-month anniversary, and a friend's wedding night, she revealed to me in the car, totally unexpectedly and unwanted, of another male. I was simply talking with her and her sister about something, and she blurted out how she had given oral sex to three men. At first I thought she was joking, but I looked into her eyes and I knew she wasn't. I sat quietly, near puking, in tears, completely betrayed, and I didn't know what to say. I was in shock.

 

She had promised me before this that there were no other men in her past. I believed her. One month later I realized she lied to me (although she claims she forgot -- which I still find unbelievable, but that is irrelevant and over with now), and I was heartbroken.

 

This one final event resulted in the downfall of Scottm (me). I could not get it off my mind for days, and those days turned into months, and now I'm on month 6 of going through this. Suddenly, I was plauged with images, haunting images, I fell asleep at night in tears praying for help. I would write poems, searching for an answer, a reasoning, a purpose behind her revealing this new man. I've currently discovered no answers.

 

So, there it is. I brought it on myself at the beginning, atleast what I could handle. I ignored it and I was happier than ever. Then she brought it on to me, and it tore me down to shreds. Now, you're probably thinking how small my problem seems. Its only third base, right? And I have to agree with you - it is small, and it should be. But to me its not. I've never been obsessive in my life, and now I am. I have found nearly every small detail about all these events, and have often be lied to about it. I simply see no end.

 

Should I leave her? She's lied to me about her past, maybe to protect me (which I can understand, but it still doesn't justify it), or for any other reason.

 

I hate it. I am sick to my stomach when I think of her with another man, and I am completely heartbroken. I cry in public (unfortunately) sometimes, and I go to sleep a wreck. Sometimes I get no sleep, and sometimes I just give up on everything, especially when she gives up on me.

 

The other side to all of this is the fact that she is still with me. She hasn't left, and she said she never will. She loves me, and I love her. So should I leave her?

 

We have plans to get married and go to university together (I'm 17), and spend the rest of our life together. I forsee it, and so does she. But her past overshadows the future. I cannot picture myself still dealing with this for years to come.

 

I should also note how severe the pain is becoming. Approximately a month ago, it was bad, where I was depressed 85% of the day. Now, as of not long ago, its up to 95% and above. I am very rarely okay, happy, whatever. Its just not that common anymore.

 

What the heck should I do guys? I'm stuck here, and I need help. I've asked everyone for help, and I've been to two councellors previously for past depression.

 

Help!

 

Thanks in advance,

 

unnamed (Scott)

[Tony T]

I believe she lied to you and betrayed to you...and was stupid enough to reveal her transgression in the car in front of a third party. You are wrong to put up with this.

 

If you are going to have such a violent reaction to this betrayal, don't waste the energy on being upset with what she did...use it to get over her.

 

I am telling you it's not going to disappear. She is a very young chirpie and not likely to stay with you for a long time anyway.

 

She's got lots of blow jobs to go before she settles down with one man...and all of them ARE NOT with you.

 

Move on my man. You will find girls who, even though they have some experience with men, will not judge your performance, will be mature, and will love you for you. You don't need a baby in your midst.

[unnamed]

I believe she lied to you and betrayed to

you...and was stupid enough to reveal her transgression in the car in front of a third party. You are wrong to put up with this.

Agreed. I still don't understand why she revealed it in front of her sister (although her sister already knew, so..), but in the end, it matters little to me.

If you are going to have such a violent reaction to this betrayal, don't waste the energy on being upset with what she did...use it to get over her.

Violent reactions? I forgot to mention the intense fantasies I have of killing her past men. I mean very personalized and intense, like dismembering, sucking the breath out of them while they die in my hands, staring at me. Now I think that is just asking for trouble, don't you?

I am telling you it's not going to disappear. She is a very young chirpie and not likely to stay with you for a long time anyway.

Why do you say that? I agree that it might not dissapear, but why do you think she won't stay with me?

She's got lots of blow jobs to go before she settles down with one man...and all of them ARE NOT with you.

Hrm. I disagree. I hope your wrong...

Move on my man. You will find girls who, even though they have some experience with men, will not judge your performance, will be mature, and will love you for you. You don't need a baby in your midst.

She does! She never judged me, I just felt judged! She has never once compared me to other guys, atleast not aloud. You must have misinterepreted my post, or you're seeing something I'm not clicking into.

[Tony T]

Again, you are one very confused dude, looking for ways to get around this problem and you aren't going to find them.

 

I can tell you from experience that very young girls like this are just extremely fickle. She has a lot of living to do before she settles down. If you care about her at all you will allow her to grow up normally before making a committment to you or any man.

 

I did not even imply that she judged your performance. I basically said that you will find girls who won't. But, nevertheless, I don't know what you are seeking here. I don't know what assurances you want here...but I am incapable of giving them to you.

 

This is not a relationship made in heaven based on your posts here and your experiences. This is just not the way love is meant to work.

 

However, I do wish you great luck in working this out. The great thing about life is no matter how difficult our circumstances, they do work out...usually for the better...in time.

[blinker]

honest to god you need to get off your computer and go see a shrink or a therapist. you admit to having fantasies about dismembering the guys she fooled around with. you are not a stable individual. you are a time bomb waiting to go off. you are completely obsessed to the point of being down right scary in your obsessions and thoughts and beliefs. what are these episodes you refer to? it is not the least bit normal for a guy your age to obsess about your girlfriend having fooled around with a couple other guys before you. big deal. that was before you entered the picture. get some help before you end up killing someone. i'm serious.

Agreed. I still don't understand why she revealed it in front of her sister (although her sister already knew, so..), but in the end, it matters little to me. Violent reactions? I forgot to mention the intense fantasies I have of killing her past men. I mean very personalized and intense, like dismembering, sucking the breath out of them while they die in my hands, staring at me. Now I think that is just asking for trouble, don't you? Why do you say that? I agree that it might not dissapear, but why do you think she won't stay with me? Hrm. I disagree. I hope your wrong... She does! She never judged me, I just felt judged! She has never once compared me to other guys, atleast not aloud. You must have misinterepreted my post, or you're seeing something I'm not clicking into.