Which parent does a child "side with"?

[pteromom]

M30USA -

 

You do not really know who your kids will become. They are individuals, and their beliefs, values, and direction will be shaped by many things. You and your ex, for sure. Your extended families. Their teachers. Their friends. What they see in other people's lives.

 

You only control part of that, and that is the part where YOU are spending time with them.

 

If you want to shape who they become, you have to choose conversations and experiences to have with them which will lead them to becoming balanced, happy people.

 

Yes, you should never never talk badly about their mom. But it is OK to talk to them about their lives, to ask them what they think about situations, and to encourage them to discuss their feelings with you.

 

And you can show them a good example of a happy life.

 

As far as what to do to keep them from being bored without spending lots of money on gifts, think back to your fondest childhood memories, and find ways to recreate them with your own kids. Life isn't about "things", but about experiences. Show them what happiness is, and that will go a long way in nudging them in a direction.

[Janesays]

The original post came across as pretty racist to me. What does being Hispanic or Caucasian have to do with being individualistic or accountable for your actions?

[M30USA]

The original post came across as pretty racist to me. What does being Hispanic or Caucasian have to do with being individualistic or accountable for your actions?

 

Maybe you should ask the training manual for my nationwide corporate employer when they give tips on working with various nationalities. Among these tips are the exact ones I just mentioned.

[serial muse]

Maybe you should ask the training manual for my nationwide corporate employer when they give tips on working with various nationalities. Among these tips are the exact ones I just mentioned.

 

Different cultures do rank individuality, family, society in different orders...but accountability? Integrity? I doubt any nationwide employer is suggesting that some cultures are better at that than others! Sounds actionable.

 

Anyway. It's too bad that your ex is bad-mouthing you, but as others have said, if you present a good example, your kids will take notice.

 

I do wonder if you can be quite sure your disdain for your ex isn't leaching through, though. I mean, you really sound like you look down on her and her family. Do you really strive to keep all hints of that, even indirectly, out of your conversation with your kids?

Edited May 29, 2014 by serial muse

[todreaminblue]

I have tried to make my separation from the fathers of my children as painless as possible for them........they have constant contact they visit.....they(my children) even the ones that say they do not.....have their hearts guarded...i believe in my heart my kids love all of us i believe equally.....they miss him....they miss me.....one father actually sleeps on my couch...he is my ex............i cannot contemplate them ever having to choose .......they dont need to i will not divide them i am not privy to have a solomon on hand to deal with that division of a child...... to make such a decision is sort of taking agency from another.............there was only one solomon and he sitn contactyable.....so i do my best by my kids....in spite of any dissention i feel........smilin......love and respect ....two things that will make a choice not necessary and their should never be sides in parenting just union and divinity........in us as parents.......god gave us divine right as guardians...we are not owners of sides......it is unfortunate when parents split but sometimes necessary .......divine is to ......have no divide as parents.......no sides....only love and respect from all child and parent..children then become divine in nature ...compassion understanding love respect all god given traits.......i know from previous posts mouse a that you have had a hard time....it doesnt have to be this way forever.....you are in my prayers....god bless and keep you and your children in future happiness no sides attached..........deb

Edited May 29, 2014 by todreaminblue

[No Limit]

Did your father have joint custody of you while growing up? Did he want to see you whenever he could?

 

I haven't seen him since a few weeks before the divorce was final. Before that he wasn't that much at home either so being seperated for good didn't mean much change for my daily life, I wasn't used to his constant presence because I've never known it.

 

And no, my mother got full custody because he was caught with the drug dealing. And truth be told, in another dimension I'd probably fight my own mother if she'd try to get me to visit him; no law could ever force me.

It's also why I'm always confused that when the kid stays with the "bad parent" (who also behaves badly) they don't do anything against that. Perhaps I can't imagine it because I've never had a father-figure at all.

[Untouched]

It seems wrong for either parent to be thinking about their children "siding" at all.

 

I bet the kids prefer to be where they feel most comfortable. That might not be in line with a divorced parent's ideas about the "other" family. Kids probably don't care about what the adults do as long as they are treated well and feel good there.

 

I hope you can find some positive things to think about your ex wife and your family. Even if you never speak badly of them, your obvious sense of superiority over them and disapproval, along with the racist part, must be getting across to their kids.

 

Their mom must have had something to offer that you wanted or else you would not have married and had children with her, would you have?

[littleplanet]

Great comments, No Limit.

 

Nut job? (The reasons for that assessment should be obvious.)

Kids aren't stupid.

 

OP:

 

The more relaxed confidence you gain as time goes by - just being the dad you are, consistently, dependably - for your child, the stronger the bond between the two of you.

This is what you have complete control over.

You have no control over his mother.(nor, probably, should you.)

Her values are what they are.

As time goes by, your child will come to understand the differences, weigh them out, and come to his own conclusions.

If these present a problem for you, you can then deal with them as they arise.

When he comes to trust you and your judgements as being fair, honest, and in his best interests.....I don't imagine he will sell you short no matter what his mother says or does.

Bonds with kids are about as powerful as it gets.

 

When my son was small, his mom became a fullblown communist.

I'm not particularly right-leaning - but I had a few friends and family members get a little anxious about how this would spoil his relationship with me.

It did nothing of the sort.

Her politics were what they were.

His never matched.

(He in fact, became far more conservative than I am, by the time he reached college age.)

 

But most important:

I never set it up as a contest between me and her.

I only worried about what I could control: my relationship with him.

It was close, it was tight, it was loving and wonderful. Through all those primal years.

 

His mom was never the villain in the picture. He never heard me say negative things against her. I was always neutral (and a lot of that was for his sake.)

She, on the other hand, would sometimes lash out. But I stayed the course.

Nothing ever got bad enough to erupt in outright hostility.

 

I always assumed that there was a lot of her influence in him - but I adhered to a philosophy of letting it be.

He was well aware that things were far different in her house than mine.

I let him come to his own conclusions.

And we easily found our own natural comfort zone.

 

But above all:

Focus on your child. Not on her.

Once that bond is in place, it is unbreakable. That is all that matters.

 

I'll quote you one example of typical conflict:

 

When my son was 5, he was over at my house, and we were joking around about something or other (car racing probably) and he referred to accident victims as "dead meat."

Well - I gave him the look (dad is displeased.)

He got defensive.

I didn't back down.

He said, "Well, mom says that all the time."

 

Then I asked him, "Do we eat people?"

He giggled, and said, "Of course not!"

 

.................then I asked him why.

 

He got a strange look on his face, while pondering that,

and then said in a small voice...."Because it wouldn't be right."

 

I didn't ask him why again - I just smiled.

The point being: I didn't go on the attack.

I was well aware of his mother's attitude about that kind of stuff.

If he ever used that phrase again, it was never within my earshot.

Many potential confrontations were solved just that way.

 

Your child will come to know you far better in time - as yourself. Your values, beliefs, attitudes, ethics......all of it.

He'll come to his own acceptance of things within the framework of trust and respect. That issue is between the two of you.

(and that's where it should stay.)

[littleplanet]

I haven't seen him since a few weeks before the divorce was final. Before that he wasn't that much at home either so being seperated for good didn't mean much change for my daily life, I wasn't used to his constant presence because I've never known it.

 

And no, my mother got full custody because he was caught with the drug dealing. And truth be told, in another dimension I'd probably fight my own mother if she'd try to get me to visit him; no law could ever force me.

It's also why I'm always confused that when the kid stays with the "bad parent" (who also behaves badly) they don't do anything against that. Perhaps I can't imagine it because I've never had a father-figure at all.

 

 

Seems to me you turned out all right, NL

I admire your perspective.

 

A simple biological act should never give anyone the right to screw up a kid.

You're damned lucky you were never fought over (like a domestic football.)

Too many - far too many - don't get this.

And nanny state is often too helpless and hopeless to fix it.

 

Sometimes I can almost believe (in certain cases) that the kids themselves have more real common sense about this stuff - than the elders.

Maybe their heads and their hearts are more clear....

 

I was only 10 when I wanted to leave home.

Waited until I was 16.

(that was a good move)

But what I knew at 10 wasn't nothin'.

 

We make our breaks.

[joanofark]

I understand that a child needs both parents. Lets just get that off the table. I expect my child to always love his mother and will encourage him to. But what I'm talking about is which parent (or identity) does a child side with? Does it ultimately come down to the child's own predisposition or are there factors which can predict it?

 

The very nature of divorce implies that both parents could not unify their family direction due to conflicting directions. This means the child will be presented with two distinct paths from which to choose. While a child most likely will adopt traits from both parents, it still seems like one general direction must be chosen over the other.

 

My children will see two distinct paths. Her mom's family is Hispanic. They put family cohesiveness as the highest priority in life--even above truth and morality. They also put very high value on money and wealth. Much of their conversation is about increasing finances and buying houses. My family, on the contrary, is European/Caucasian. We value objectivity, truth, and tend to be more individual. Money is less important to us and we even view it as a potential pitfall to a rewarding life. Much of our conversation is on intellectual ideas and pursuit of integrity and accountability.

 

Clearly my children will see two different paths. What I'm asking is are there any factors which influence their decision? For example, are they more likely to follow the path of the parent with primary custody? Is it merely a time issue? Or are there other factors like the child's natural personality?

 

I would greatly appreciate any feedback. It concerns me that my child could potentially choose his mom's family identity. I believe this would be detrimental to their well being. Thanks in advance.

 

 

Shouldn't this have been something that you thought about prior to having children with her? I understand that you are no longer together and you would like to "protect" your children from her sides "values", but I hate to think you didn't have all of this information before your kids were even here. I do not think divorce really has to play a part in this situation. Be a positive part of your children's lives, keep the lines of communication WIDE open. Talk to them. Don't just assume they are destined to grow up and take on either side.

[Speakingofwhich]

M30USA, I started to write out the two divergent pathways my exH and I took at our D and how it affected our children but it became long and thread jacky.

 

So, just to sum it up, I'll say that prayer (lots of it accompanied by reading the Bible) made all the difference in the world for my kids.

[M30USA]

M30USA, I started to write out the two divergent pathways my exH and I took at our D and how it affected our children but it became long and thread jacky.

 

So, just to sum it up, I'll say that prayer (lots of it accompanied by reading the Bible) made all the difference in the world for my kids.

 

I wish I could have read your post. Shucks!

[amaysngrace]

I understand that a child needs both parents. Lets just get that off the table. I expect my child to always love his mother and will encourage him to. But what I'm talking about is which parent (or identity) does a child side with? Does it ultimately come down to the child's own predisposition or are there factors which can predict it?

 

The very nature of divorce implies that both parents could not unify their family direction due to conflicting directions. This means the child will be presented with two distinct paths from which to choose. While a child most likely will adopt traits from both parents, it still seems like one general direction must be chosen over the other.

 

My children will see two distinct paths. Her mom's family is Hispanic. They put family cohesiveness as the highest priority in life--even above truth and morality. They also put very high value on money and wealth. Much of their conversation is about increasing finances and buying houses. My family, on the contrary, is European/Caucasian. We value objectivity, truth, and tend to be more individual. Money is less important to us and we even view it as a potential pitfall to a rewarding life. Much of our conversation is on intellectual ideas and pursuit of integrity and accountability.

 

Clearly my children will see two different paths. What I'm asking is are there any factors which influence their decision? For example, are they more likely to follow the path of the parent with primary custody? Is it merely a time issue? Or are there other factors like the child's natural personality?

 

I would greatly appreciate any feedback. It concerns me that my child could potentially choose his mom's family identity. I believe this would be detrimental to their well being. Thanks in advance.

 

Why don't you allow your child to form his own identity instead of worrying about things like this?

[M30USA]

Why don't you allow your child to form his own identity instead of worrying about things like this?

 

Where did I say I won't let him? My concerns only arise because I'm dealing with ex inlaws who are dominating and manipulative (per the words of my ex wife). I wouldn't be asking this if my children's granparents on the other side knew their boundaries. I, unlike the grandparents on the other side, am not a manipulator. I will allow my children to choose their path. Notice I didn't ask how to win them or force them to choose sides. Please don't put words in my mouth.

[amaysngrace]

Where did I say I won't let him? My concerns only arise because I'm dealing with ex inlaws who are dominating and manipulative (per the words of my ex wife). I wouldn't be asking this if my children's granparents on the other side knew their boundaries. I, unlike the grandparents on the other side, am not a manipulator. I will allow my children to choose their path. Notice I didn't ask how to win them or force them to choose sides. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

You said "it concerns you that your child could potentially choose his mom's family identity" verbatim.

 

I said why not let him choose his own?

 

That isn't putting words in your mouth.

 

If her family was so terrible then why did you marry and reproduce offspring with her fully knowing that any offspring you had would be periodically exposed to these people?

 

If I were you I'd just try to be a positive force in your sons life when you are around him and try to let the bitterness and control go.

 

Otherwise every little thing he does that he seems to be picking up from your ex in-laws may send you into freak mode around your child which won't help either of you to create good memories when you're too busy worrying about who he will become.

 

He did not ask to have these people as his family...YOU made that decision for him before he was even born.

 

Now let him be who he is...

[Speakingofwhich]

I wish I could have read your post. Shucks!

 

I'll write it out tonight or tomorrow, hopefully tonight. I'm backed up with work too much to take the time today.

 

What God did surprised everyone, most of all me!

[M30USA]

You said "it concerns you that your child could potentially choose his mom's family identity" verbatim.

 

I said why not let him choose his own?

 

That isn't putting words in your mouth.

 

If her family was so terrible then why did you marry and reproduce offspring with her fully knowing that any offspring you had would be periodically exposed to these people?

 

If I were you I'd just try to be a positive force in your sons life when you are around him and try to let the bitterness and control go.

 

Otherwise every little thing he does that he seems to be picking up from your ex in-laws may send you into freak mode around your child which won't help either of you to create good memories when you're too busy worrying about who he will become.

 

He did not ask to have these people as his family...YOU made that decision for him before he was even born.

 

Now let him be who he is...

 

So you think it's not okay to be concerned that your child is modelling after abusers, assaulters, and legally-disproven false accusers? Perhaps you haven't read my history.

[jakrbbt]

My parents are not divorced, but they come from pretty different backgrounds. My mother was pretty obviously petrified that we'd identify with our dad's background. She had no idea that she ever conveyed any of it, but to us it was obvious.

 

It also felt very hurtful. As a kid I felt half-Dad. It was like she was putting down my own blood and telling me to stifle it.

 

Two points I'd make: First, you kids might see the difference btwn mom and mom's extended family. We certainly saw our parents as very distinct from their parents and siblings-- they were the ones who kept thinking each other's families were so big in the picture.

 

Second, you can always teach your children to perceive and avoid whatever negative aspects you think your ex-wife's family presents, WITHOUT linking it to ex-wife's family even in the slightest (and kids are sharp, so don't even use examples that smack of ex-w's family.) I am sure that if you want to caution them against materialism, recent history offers a great wealth of examples. :/ They'll have kids in their class et cetera displaying qualities and behaviors. And when you praise the positive in others rather than being critical most of the time, I think that fosters confidence too.

[No Limit]

Great comments, No Limit.

 

I'm just hoping to give some more insight for the scared parents out there.

 

As long as the parents don't yell at their kids - as in emotional abuse - the kid won't care about the divorce at all. You can't buy their love either, and you can't influence what they think of their mother or father.

You also can't influence their way of thinking/beliefs. A child's world is turned upside down as soon as they enter school anyway.

 

When you hit or yell at your child, yes, then it'll be quick to choose the parent that doesn't treat it this way. And there's also no "parent replacement" from my feeling - you at best like the new man/woman a lot, like a big friend, but your parents are basically branded into your mind. I can't even remember my father's face anymore and yet he's still there, that's why for example wives leaving their husbands for OM shouldn't be kidding themselves by thinking they'll start over completely and he'll be the new father-figure. It won't happen.

 

It also felt very hurtful. As a kid I felt half-Dad. It was like she was putting down my own blood and telling me to stifle it.

 

That one hurt me too. With my father's criminal way of life my mom apparently feared I'd have inherited it, although in a way I can't blame her, people used to say that I've inherited a lot of my father's appearance when they saw my face. I remember after an incident she called me a "monster"; even though my mother apologized moments later that one never let me go. Today I'm not sure if I love her at all, I guess she's just family and I owe her for making the life I've been enjoying for years now even possible.

Edited May 30, 2014 by No Limit

[M30USA]

I think it's possible that I'm harboring hatred agsinst my ex wife and family (whether legitimate or illegitimate) and I should probably repent of this.

 

Somehow I have to balance not validating their actions on one hand...with forgiving them on the other. Any advice is appreciated.

Edited May 30, 2014 by M30USA

[amaysngrace]

So you think it's not okay to be concerned that your child is modelling after abusers, assaulters, and legally-disproven false accusers? Perhaps you haven't read my history.

 

In which ways does he model them now? Because I was under the impression that you were speaking of future behavior, not past or current behavior.

[quankanne]

In short, I don't believe you can do anything other than provide a strong roll model to your children. Don't bad-mouth their mother or her family. They exist and will always be part of your children's heritage.

 

very well stated! From my own empirical observations:

 

both my sisters divorced within less than a year of each other, both have two children, both had husbands who cheated on them

 

Sister A – mother of a son (then 12 or so) and a daughter (8, if I remember correctly) did everything she could to make herself look like the better parent and denigrated the kids' dad. And to this day, the kids (now in their mid to late 30s) are unsure of their relationship with their dad and don't trust the one they have with their mom, because for every handful of times she'd badmouth her ex, she turn right around and demand the kids respect their relationship with their father.

 

Sister B – who had boys then aged 6 & 8 – would rail against their dad ... but never, ever in front of their father, because she understood that he loved those boys dearly, and the divorce was between him and her, not the kids. She also joked about how they'd figure out later what their dad was about. Boys are 31 and fixing to turn 30 this summer, and have a fairly strong relationship with their dad that is not dependent on their relationship with their mother. While they have gotten upset with him at times (her too), that hasn't impacted the foundation of the relationship the way it has their cousins.

 

my theory is that children respect you when you treat your former spouse with respect, even as you disagree with that person. I also believe that they mimic your actions, not necessarily your words, so if they see that while you might not agree with their mom, you're not going out of your way to paint her as horrible, because you respect that she is their mom. And, because you give them that positive model, you give them a standard to live by. I know that the two brothers generally tend to blank out my sister when she's being a handful, and that they really, really respect their dad because he is a good man.

 

bottom line: Be that person they model themselves after. Because they're kids, yeah, they're going to be swayed by materialistic things, but eventually, they start to look past that and see the gold beneath the glitter ...

[RonaldS]

As often as I fantasize about Dorthy's house falling out of the sky and landing on my XW, I am very happy to see how strong of a relationship my kids have with her.

 

As a father, I do all I can do to be just as good of a parent to my kids. I work hard to cultivate a great, open, trusting relationship with my kids. One of the happier moments I've had with my kids was a recent weekend with them when my 5 year old was having some troubles with school and I was trying to talk to him about it. He didn't want to open up, and was afraid to talk about how he was feeling. My 8 year old daughter said, 'It's OK...you can tell dad. You can talk to dad about ANYTHING'.

 

It made me feel great, because as is normal, I was worried that my kids were with my XW almost everyday, and I wasn't, and that the relationships would suffer as they would look at 'mom' as being the person who was there for them, whereas 'dad' was gone a lot.

 

The way I look at it is that between my XW and I, my kids have everything they could need from their parents. I don't worry about them siding with her or me. Just happy that they're happy and taken care of.

[Speakingofwhich]

M30USA, this is what I wanted to share with you earlier to encourage you to trust in God for your children's future. Though it's long, I actually left out much I wanted to include.

 

When I was married to my exH he was a great H and father! In every way, it seemed.

 

At that point I would have thought if we'd D he would be the better parent and the one the kids would prefer.

 

Then H left. And became a very different person. He'd always been a good- looking charismatic man. And he was pretty well-to-do. My boys loved and respected their dad.

 

I, otoh, am a more serious-natured, quieter, low-energy type person.

 

I had been a SAHM for the entire M. And I was left with nothing, due to my H's clever scheming.

 

My H began to vie for supremacy. He bought the kids things and pleasurable experiences I couldn't afford. He got a nice big house for them to live in. And a new wife. He made jokes about me (I learned later) and talked disparagingly about me.

 

The older son left to live with his dad and for over a year had nothing to do with me. I was, well.......poor, scared to death; suicidal.

 

I was a fairly new Christian but I hadn't really read the Bible. I decided to search the scriptures to find if there was any help in there since I had no family to fall back on. My dad was a strong Christian and prayed with me a lot and encouraged me, but he had very little money so couldn't help me out financially.

 

One thing important that I learned from the Bible was that it's better to trust God than it is to trust man. There are many places in the Bible that say this. It also says in many places that nothing is impossible with God. And teaches that you can rely on God to help you out when everything else fails. As I read these verses they began to sink into my heart and mind. I believed them and began to rely on God for help in my life.

 

Long story short, as I prayed each day and read the Bible each morning through a series of miracles God brought me a house and made it possible for me to buy it. And He gave me work to do that I could never have found myself. I have an unusual career that very few people are able to make a living at. I didn't set out to do this, but God brought it to me through a series of miracles as I prayed and as I was looking for a job that was unrelated to the career I was given.

 

This is all great, but the thing about it that was really great is that my kids watched me face adversity with no tools to deal with it, except for God. They saw me reading my Bible and on my knees asking for help and for answers. I was not preaching to my children but my life was. Not that I was so good. No! I made many mistakes. But, they saw that God is there when you need Him and He really does help the helpless. They watched the miracles happen.

 

The older son was gone just a year and a half and came back to me after that. His dad was not relying on God for his life and son was miserable there. Dad was a very successful man who really didn't need God's help.

 

During this time their dad was talking about me disparagingly but I never talked about their dad that way. And their dad began to treat them disrespectfully as did their stepmother.

 

My kids were normal kids. I sent them to Christian schools but they didn't seem to be very religious. They were good kids, though. Both of them athletes.

 

I had been praying a lot for my kids and continued to do so.

 

The second son got into trouble at the Christian high school I sent him to and was suspended for a few days. But, then he did better and became a leader there.

 

About the time the older son went off to college, both boys lived with me and still spent time with their dad, but not as much as they did with me. One day I got a call from older son telling me that his dad had attacked him. It happened in his dad's front yard and the other son saw it as did their dad's wife.

 

ExH began to tear at older son, for no reason he knew of and ripped his shirt to shreds. Both sons left their dad's premises. Either one could have mopped the floor with their dad. They were in great shape, the older one performing nationwide with his sport.

 

But, and I'm so proud of what they did, they drove a short distance out of sight, pulled to the side of the road and prayed for their dad.

 

For eighteen years afterwards they never went back to his home and were with me only.

 

All of this time I was praying earnestly for my sons every day.

 

Second son got suspended from college (Christian college) for having alcohol in his car. He also became addicted to cigarettes. He was a known party boy. The college has rules there that you can't smoke so they sent him to a treatment center. But it didn't help him. He was pretty upset that he'd gotten himself addicted. He and his brother were living together at this time and older son told him, "Don't try to stop smoking. Just read your Bible and pray every day to get to know Jesus Christ and forget about trying to stop smoking."

 

Well, second son did this. Within a week he had stopped smoking! He was amazed at the power of God to help him quit smoking when he'd tried everything to stop.

 

He was so in awe of God's power that he wanted God to change his whole life. Everyone was so surprised when he began to change his ways and within a couple of months he told me he wanted to go to a foreign country as a missionary to serve the people there. So, he did go to a little school in a primitive area of the world for a year and taught the children in a little Christian school missionaries had begun years before.

 

The area was very primitive. They couldn't even buy much of what we have here to eat from the grocery store. For instance, there were no salad items available.

 

Anyway, while there my son decided to become a pastor!

 

The other son studied business and has done well with it and his family is strong in the Lord, too.

 

All this is what God did for my two boys in answer to prayer.

 

The latest thing is that their dad approached them last year to reconcile with them. Over the years their dad has done very mean things to them and to me.

 

Anyway, I'm glad to say my sons have forgiven their father and welcomed him into their happy prosperous lives. All because of God's power and love.

 

I have been concerned about their dad's influence on them even at this stage. But, I am trusting God and am praying for them (and for their Dad, too!) that they will remain faithful to God and be the men He created them to be.

 

I tried to keep this short, but know it's long. There was so much I didn't write that to me is interesting. But, mainly I wanted to let you know that God is the most powerful force there is and if you trust in Him, stay in His Word and pray for your children daily God will protect them from bad influences. It does take a lot of prayer, though. And it also takes time for God to work in their lives. As you remember my second son gave me a lot of concerns before he gave his life over to God.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Speakingofwhich