Why should "the rules" have to change to negate your fears of rejection?

[jbelle6]

Yes it is. I just don't like hypocrites.

 

 

I know the woman you are thinking of, but I don't really consider them into traditional gender rolls, cause what they are expecting is far from traditional. I know the exact type you are talking about.

 

They want the man to keep asking them out and footing the bill, but they want to be treated like a princess and not cook or clean and they focus on their career so they make good money but still don't want to pay equally.

I don't think that's fair at all either.

[Bruce Leigh]

And when she shuts the door he can just move on to the next and the next - approaching women as he sees fit and that he wants.

 

If the man has no feelings and doesn't have a care in the world maybe.

 

Reality is very different for the majority of the male population.

[you_can_not_see_me]

There is truth to this but it is a hammer/nail thing. To the guy - he selected her

He wooed her. And when she shuts the door he can just move on to the next and the next - approaching women as he sees fit and that he wants. When you are a woman in this traditional role, you get selected, you don't select. You have to choose from those who approach. You say, from these guys who have shown interest rather than being able to go at least try to get the one you want. So, rejection can be extremely crushing as you don't exert the proactive control over your destiny that at least the guy can try to exert.

 

I don't know about you but I would rather be a hammer than a nail...

 

I m sure that kinda rejection hurts too, but I think the way men have to make themselves vulnerable and admit attraction to a girl makes it more hurtful (though I have only ever been a guy so who knows).

 

I think rejection after getting to know someone hurts a person's self esteems less, cause the other person obviously liked you enough to go out. It might hurt more emotionally since you have a stronger attachment, but rejection when initially asking someone out I think undermines a guy's self esteem more since the girl is basically saying I have no interest in you at all and don't even want to go out on a single date.

[jbelle6]

I m sure that kinda rejection hurts too, but I think the way men have to make themselves vulnerable and admit attraction to a girl makes it more hurtful (though I have only ever been a guy so who knows).

 

I think rejection after getting to know someone hurts a person's self esteems less, cause the other person obviously liked you enough to go out. It might hurt more emotionally since you have a stronger attachment, but rejection when initially asking someone out I think undermines a guy's self esteem more since the girl is basically saying I have no interest in you at all and don't even want to go out on a single date.

 

 

 

But to me, if the guy doesn't choose me, he's not interested at all. That's how I feel inside anyways. If he's just shy or something, then he wouldn't be the type I'd want to date so we're both better off with me not approaching him.

[you_can_not_see_me]

But to me, if the guy doesn't choose me, he's not interested at all. That's how I feel inside anyways. If he's just shy or something, then he wouldn't be the type I'd want to date so we're both better off with me not approaching him.

There is a difference though, When a guy approaches he basically opens himself up to get hurt to a degree, when a girl is just standing around not getting approach she still has her emotional gaurd up and it definitely hurts less.

 

Even as a guy there have been cases where I found a girl attractive but she seemed pretty uninterested and it does bother me a little like you said but its no where as hurtful as approaching and being rejected, You can just brush off someone seeming uninterested, but you can't exactly brush off a rejection, it stays with you a little.

[you_can_not_see_me]

But to me, if the guy doesn't choose me, he's not interested at all. That's how I feel inside anyways. If he's just shy or something, then he wouldn't be the type I'd want to date so we're both better off with me not approaching him.

I am ok with approaching girls, its something I do even if no where near as much as I d like. I just think women don't realize how hard it can be. I don't expect women to approach me but I do wish they made it easier by giving more consistent and obvious signs of interest.

[jbelle6]

There is a difference though, When a guy approaches he basically opens himself up to get hurt to a degree, when a girl is just standing around not getting approach she still has her emotional gaurd up and it definitely hurts less.

 

Even as a guy there have been cases where I found a girl attractive but she seemed pretty uninterested and it does bother me a little like you said but its no where as hurtful as approaching and being rejected, You can just brush off someone seeming uninterested, but you can't exactly brush off a rejection, it stays with you a little.

 

 

 

I get you and I know I could not do it, I would freeze, I get very nervous talking to people I don't know. I always thought it was just my personality, but I guess it's just scary to approach someone like that. I like when someone does it in a confident way, but not slick. I don't like charmers or anything fancy, I just really like direct. I like when he asks me for something specific, not just "let's hang out".

If girls are snotty when a guy approaches I think that's gross and they are of poor character anyways.

 

Long story short, I do get your point now.

[Potz4prez]

There is a difference though, When a guy approaches he basically opens himself up to get hurt to a degree, when a girl is just standing around not getting approach she still has her emotional gaurd up and it definitely hurts less.

 

Even as a guy there have been cases where I found a girl attractive but she seemed pretty uninterested and it does bother me a little like you said but its no where as hurtful as approaching and being rejected, You can just brush off someone seeming uninterested, but you can't exactly brush off a rejection, it stays with you a little.

 

Actually... getting rejected on an approach doesn't bother me at all. I just laugh it off. She's usually wishing she had given me a chance later in the night anyways

[jbelle6]

Yeah, pretty much. A lot of women like this out there. Most women I know don't even know how to cook.

 

I'm a guy. I don't mind paying for pretty much everything, doing all the approaching, or what have you. I just want to feel like I'm getting something for all that.

 

I think the traditional gender roles were onto something. I have a friend who married an Asian girl, and they live by the old rules, and they're both thrilled with each other. So much so that he has our other friends trying to find an Asian girl of their own lol.

 

 

Might sound strange, but I find there is less arguing as well as everyone knows what is expected of them, no bickering over division of chores and who did what. And I totally know what you mean, my friend has 2 kids and they are in restaurants every night. She called me once because she didn't know how to boil water and put pasta in. That's bad lol.

[Potz4prez]

I get you and I know I could not do it, I would freeze, I get very nervous talking to people I don't know. I always thought it was just my personality, but I guess it's just scary to approach someone like that. I like when someone does it in a confident way, but not slick. I don't like charmers or anything fancy, I just really like direct. I like when he asks me for something specific, not just "let's hang out".

If girls are snotty when a guy approaches I think that's gross and they are of poor character anyways.

 

Long story short, I do get your point now.

 

The snotty girls usually pair up with the slick guys, so it all works out

 

I've never used a one liner, but if I did:

 

"Are you a beaver? Cause DAM."

 

hehe

[Els]

 

So I ask, how does this solve anyone's problem?

 

It doesn't. Unhappy people are just trying to twist a tragic event (that had much less to do with a guy not getting laid and much more to do with everything else wrong with him) into something that fulfills their modus operandi.

 

There are no rules other than what individual people make for themselves, and nobody should (or is going to) change their preferences 'for the greater good' (which isn't even true).

[jbelle6]

The snotty girls usually pair up with the slick guys, so it all works out

 

I've never used a one liner, but if I did:

 

"Are you a beaver? Cause DAM."

 

hehe

 

 

TRUTH! They do end up together!!!

 

Are you sitting on a F5 key? Cause Damn that @ss is refreshing. LOL

[jbelle6]

I had a date with a girl who offered to come to my place and cook me dinner. She told me to stay out of the kitchen while she cooked, that she didn't need any help, and she was gonna take care of her man. I peeked in there and she was on the phone with her mother, learning how to make...pasta. Even with her mom's help, she messed it up, and admitted she couldn't cook. I ended up fixing dinner myself.

 

When I saw your post it immediately reminded me of that date. Good laugh!

 

 

LOL, if you were at her place you'd have found take out containers in the trash, but at least you'd have gotten a decent dinner!

[Potz4prez]

TRUTH! They do end up together!!!

 

Are you sitting on a F5 key? Cause Damn that @ss is refreshing. LOL

 

You had me at F5

[Lernaean_Hydra]

I know the woman you are thinking of, but I don't really consider them into traditional gender rolls, cause what they are expecting is far from traditional. I know the exact type you are talking about.

 

They want the man to keep asking them out and footing the bill, but they want to be treated like a princess and not cook or clean and they focus on their career so they make good money but still don't want to pay equally.

I don't think that's fair at all either.

 

You and me jbelle, I think we'd make very good best friends!

[Woggle]

My wife and I are both very good cooks but we cook different things well so we take turns.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

I m sure that kinda rejection hurts too, but I think the way men have to make themselves vulnerable and admit attraction to a girl makes it more hurtful (though I have only ever been a guy so who knows).

 

I think rejection after getting to know someone hurts a person's self esteems less, cause the other person obviously liked you enough to go out. It might hurt more emotionally since you have a stronger attachment, but rejection when initially asking someone out I think undermines a guy's self esteem more since the girl is basically saying I have no interest in you at all and don't even want to go out on a single date.

 

I disagree. I think being rejected by someone you've seen over a period of time is much more hurtful than being rejected by a stranger. A stranger can reject you based on any number of factors and one can argue they just didn't get to know you on a personal level so their rejection was off handed and arbitrary.

 

Being rejected by someone you've come to know means they got to now you, but just didn't like what they came to find. Especially after being "intimate" with said person.

[jbelle6]

You and me jbelle, I think we'd make very good best friends!

 

 

Why don't you live closer!!! lol I don't know many people here! BOO!

[jbelle6]

My wife and I are both very good cooks but we cook different things well so we take turns.

 

 

I think it needs to be this way if both work equally. It would be too hard if you didn't.

 

Summer is awesome because the grill is so nice and easy and less pots and pans!!! Plus YUM.

[you_can_not_see_me]

I disagree. I think being rejected by someone you've seen over a period of time is much more hurtful than being rejected by a stranger. A stranger can reject you based on any number of factors and one can argue they just didn't get to know you on a personal level so their rejection was off handed and arbitrary.

 

Being rejected by someone you've come to know means they got to now you, but just didn't like what they came to find. Especially after being "intimate" with said person.

but a stranger usually rejects someone because they don't find them attractive, which you can't change.

 

you can't even call it a rejection after someone has spent some time with you, its just the person deciding not to get into a long relationship. the reason for someone to stop seeing someone after a while is usually more arbitrary and just about the person having a different personality.

 

 

sure it hurts to be dumped or let go once you become intimate, you develop a yearning for that person, but feeling undesirable is even worse, it can affect many different parts of your life. The only thing that balances it out is that you do get some dates every once in a while and that goes a long way to restoring a guy's self confidence and image. But for guys who never get dates I can imagine it being quite debilitating.

[tbf]

I've seen a lot of threads and heard a lot of talk - especially since the Isla Vista shooting - about how more women should start approaching men, namely because men are "tired" of facing rejection. But why is this so? Why should women have to accommodate a select few men and alleviate their phobias by going against standard practice and what some might argue is human nature?

It's true it's standard practice but I would argue that it's human nature. How it could be argued as human nature is that males have a normal testosterone range of 300 - 1200 ng/dl where female range is 30 to 95 ng/dl. As you can see, males produce from 10 - 12 times the amount of testosterone as females where testosterone is the social dominance sex hormone.

 

That said, what used to be natural during primitive times doesn't mean that it has to remain static since human sociology is dynamic.

 

So, if you want to approach, do it. If not, don't. The question you have to ask yourself is what type of man you want and how well that type of man meshes with your personality. If you want a more dominant male, then it's best to let him ask you out. If you prefer a switch hitter or a submissive male, then ask him out.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

 

So, if you want to approach, do it. If not, don't. The question you have to ask yourself is what type of man you want and how well that type of man meshes with your personality. If you want a more dominant male, then it's best to let him ask you out. If you prefer a switch hitter or a submissive male, then ask him out.

 

Of course, and this thread wasn't started to argue against women approaching men in the least. I started it because I was curious as to how more women taking up being the initiators - a habit that goes against our very nature - was supposed to improve male-female relations or the overall number of relationships altogether, as some seem to suggest it would.

[jbelle6]

It's true it's standard practice but I would argue that it's human nature. How it could be argued as human nature is that males have a normal testosterone range of 300 - 1200 ng/dl where female range is 30 to 95 ng/dl. As you can see, males produce from 10 - 12 times the amount of testosterone as females where testosterone is the social dominance sex hormone.

 

That said, what used to be natural during primitive times doesn't mean that it has to remain static since human sociology is dynamic.

 

So, if you want to approach, do it. If not, don't. The question you have to ask yourself is what type of man you want and how well that type of man meshes with your personality. If you want a more dominant male, then it's best to let him ask you out. If you prefer a switch hitter or a submissive male, then ask him out.

 

 

Exactly. Perfectly said. Just what I've been saying, if he can't ask me out, he's not right for me. I want a Dominant male.

[tbf]

Of course, and this thread wasn't started to argue against women approaching men in the least. I started it because I was curious as to how more women taking up being the initiators - a habit that goes against our very nature - was supposed to improve male-female relations or the overall number of relationships altogether, as some seem to suggest it would.

It would improve male-female relations with the guys who have difficulty approaching women, since then, they can get..umm...relations. The other males will range from being flattered, neutral or turned off. It really depends on the guy's personality.

[hotpotato]

I dont think it wouod solve the problem.

 

People are forgetting that men and women are attracted to each other differently. Honestly, I dont even notice men unless they are really hot. This is especially true if im in I just wanna be alone mode.

 

I wouldnt have noticed most of the guys I dated.

 

What im saying is

 

just because women are approaching doesnt mean any particular man will be approached.

 

 

I had this discussion on a male oriented site. Making women approach more mostly benefits men who for whatever reason are already doing well with women.