Why should "the rules" have to change to negate your fears of rejection?

[Potz4prez]

Ha, screw being a stay at home dad

 

It just means I like men who have a little boldness about them and aren't afraid to show interest. The shy, timid thing doesn't work for me. I'm not afraid to make decisions or offer opinions; that's no issue for me at all. I'm just not a fan of the guy who stares at me in class or from across the bar but never goes beyond that.

 

Well you sound normal enough then. The shy timid thing doesn't work for anyone I don't think.

 

 

Ok, legit opinion: The male/female gender roles when it comes to approach don't need to change. They're working just fine. I think the problem lies after that. Thanks to technology (OLD, dating apps, social media, etc) women have A LOT more options, so it's easy for them to gather a whole bunch of willing men around them and take their pick. Even with technology, most men still don't have that option, and they get frustrated.

 

There was a video I saw recently where researchers fed monkey A ****ty food, and monkey B (in the glass cage where monkey A could see) delicious fruit. Monkey A started throwing his ****ty food back at the researchers and refused to eat.

 

Perhaps more men are starting to refuse to date and play the games now.

[Bruce Leigh]

Sure, girls can—and do—ask guys out for dinner and pick up the check without missing a beat. Women can make that choice.

Men say they have no choice. If they want a life, they have to ask women out on dates; they have to initiate conversations at bars and parties, they have to take the lead on sex.

Women can take a Chinese menu approach to gender roles.

Not my quotes but it does seem to apply to modern society.

 

Women may want equality at the conference table and treadmill. But when it comes to sex and dating, they aren’t so sure.

[todreaminblue]

anybody suffers from rejection and basing what you should do on someones actions, who seriously needed help i feel would be a mistake, i dont know this guy, i dont know his story even an iota enough to speculate that rejection actually was what caused him to go postal, i feel depression when i think about it actually because all round it is horrible......it is horrible that he came to do what he did .....and then i wonder what possibly happened that was so bad that he turned to murder and destruction as payment......i have had many bad things happen to me ridicule rejection, stoning,child sexual assault, bashings, rape, isolation , degradation....they are the broad spectrum at pivotal points in my life./.........

 

 

 

 

 

i could never do this to anyone...that is what depresses me most what was in him what memory what thought what happening caused to make him leap into mass murder...in my life however i have had awesome love, miracles, peace tranquility laughter fun , i have made love and i have given love....this guy was 22 i am 45....and the ever watchful eye of god to help me through many a time i have felt gods arms around me when no one was around to help.........did god desert him ....god please say you never did.........why did it happen......it plays with my faith in humanity in god.....and how come i havent gone postal will i go postal.......i would rather throw myself in front of a tru7ck than hurt anyone .......what did someone really do to him...because to me rejection causes sadness....it is not and cant be the reason....it just cant ...i cannot understand the idea of someone taking lives so callously........

 

 

 

its hard for me to grasp....as a survivor .......i see the guy as a victim as well as the victims he created who never got to become survivors either......total disregard fro the essence of breath we are given........he never became a survivor....and its sad that instead of helping others he created victims..........i take risks in my life.........and i would give my life to save another i joined state emergency services as the youngest girl to join......i have not changed.........he took the fragility and light of lives and darkened a day ......and it plays with my faith.....and it plays with my intelligence to know..something really bad happened to him and it got spread like a cancer on one day in one year in one hour to touch hundreds even thousands of people with infection ....makes me want to be reclusive .......its why i dont watch the news....i would be a recluse again....like i became after september 11.........deb

Edited May 28, 2014 by todreaminblue

[Lernaean_Hydra]

women have A LOT more options, so it's easy for them to gather a whole bunch of willing men around them and take their pick. Even with technology, most men still don't have that option, and they get frustrated.

 

Ah yes, a certain segment of the population (that shall remain nameless!!) who swallow pills of a rouge hue like to call those men "beta orbiters" . I'm opposed to those for the same reasons I'm opposed to men who don't approach. If you don't have the balls to show definitive interest I'm not going to keep you around.

 

Perhaps more men are starting to refuse to date and play the games now.

Maybe, but it feels more like some men simply wish to turn the tables and be the one's leading the game playing now, as opposed to refusing to play it altogether.

[Potz4prez]

Ah yes, a certain segment of the population (that shall remain nameless!!) who swallow pills of a rouge hue like to call those men "beta orbiters" .

 

Who? The illuminati? I'm so confused haha

 

I'm opposed to those for the same reasons I'm opposed to men who don't approach. If you don't have the balls to show definitive interest I'm not going to keep you around.

 

I feel like that's what dating has devolved into... a bunch of people orbiting each other, afraid of getting burned upon entering in close proximity. Because dating has become more consumer-ist in nature, people are tossed aside more readily, and so more people are afraid of getting burned again.

 

Maybe, but it feels more like some men simply wish to turn the tables and be the one's leading the game playing now, as opposed to refusing to play it altogether.

 

That could be totally true. It'd be nice to get free meals out of girls... put that equal pay to use

[Woggle]

There are quite a few more stay at home dads these days. It is becoming more and more common.

 

In the 60s feminists also applied it to personal relationships as well. They even had a phrase which the personal is political.

 

If we aren't attracted to women who show more masculine traits or have a lot of sexual partners or whatever we are afraid of strong and independent women but women can feel free to bash men who go outside of the gender norms.

 

There are a number of women who want to turn the tables on men as well but I don't believe in that stuff either way.

[xxoo]

There are quite a few more stay at home dads these days. It is becoming more and more common.

 

In the 60s feminists also applied it to personal relationships as well. They even had a phrase which the personal is political.

 

If we aren't attracted to women who show more masculine traits or have a lot of sexual partners or whatever we are afraid of strong and independent women but women can feel free to bash men who go outside of the gender norms.

 

There are a number of women who want to turn the tables on men as well but I don't believe in that stuff either way.

 

Wait...

 

Do you think it is bashing men to say that a behavior or dynamic feels less "masculine" and more "feminine"? Because I don't. There is nothing wrong with a man or woman adopting masculine or feminine traits. No value judgment at all, just personal preferences and turn ons.

[Bruce Leigh]

But with the current and upcoming generations of men and women now more likely to blur the lines of femininity and masculinity, it is just going to make finding someone even harder.

[Mrin]

Thanks to technology (OLD, dating apps, social media, etc) women have A LOT more options, so it's easy for them to gather a whole bunch of willing men around them and take their pick. Even with technology, most men still don't have that option, and they get frustrated.

 

Are you kidding me? Thanks to OLD I usually am dating 3-5 women until I get serious about one. As long as you are decent looking, have some good pics, and funny profile and can give good email/text - it is like an ATM for women. I assure you the same goes for women too. And on too of that, if my female friends' OLD experiences are any indication, we men win out on quality. Seriously, the quality out there is atrocious.

 

I just don't think some men know how to attract women and play the field. The get zeroed in on one and boom. We see women do the same thing for sure, but to this logic, "they didn't risk anything/rejection". That's weak sauce IMHO. Just look through LS and there are tales of rejection everywhere from women. So tell me fellas, what hurts worse? Being rejected by a total stranger or being rejected by a guy after he approaches, gets your guard down/catches your interest and gets to know you? One is a passing rejection out of hand. The other can be taken as pronouncement of judgment on your character. You are not good enough for me so go back to the sideline and wait until some other chap calls your name...

 

So how is this unfair to men again?

 

Just saying.

[you_can_not_see_me]

It just means I like men who have a little boldness about them and aren't afraid to show interest. The shy, timid thing doesn't work for me. I'm not afraid to make decisions or offer opinions; that's no issue for me at all. I'm just not a fan of the guy who stares at me in class or from across the bar but never goes beyond that.

I am one of those shier guys who will initally just make eye contact with a girl but won't approach, I eventually do approach the girl but only after I have seen the girl on several occasions.

 

I am trying to be bolder, but its a difficult, cause when a guy does approach more women, he gets rejected more and being rejected several times can really wound your self perception. As a guy I don't have the reassuring factor of other people hitting on me and reminding me that I am attractive to the opposite sex which women have. sometimes after a few rejections a guy can really start wondering if he is unappealing to women in general.

 

Approaching girls takes a toll me, not because I care much about a girl I approach but because rejections make me question my appeal. and no one wants to feel unattractive.

[you_can_not_see_me]

Are you kidding me? Thanks to OLD I usually am dating 3-5 women until I get serious about one. As long as you are decent looking, have some good pics, and funny profile and can give good email/text - it is like an ATM for women. I assure you the same goes for women too. And on too of that, if my female friends' OLD experiences are any indication, we men win out on quality. Seriously, the quality out there is atrocious.

 

I just don't think some men know how to attract women and play the field. The get zeroed in on one and boom. We see women do the same thing for sure, but to this logic, "they didn't risk anything/rejection". That's weak sauce IMHO. Just look through LS and there are tales of rejection everywhere from women. So tell me fellas, what hurts worse? Being rejected by a total stranger or being rejected by a guy after he approaches, gets your guard down/catches your interest and gets to know you? One is a passing rejection out of hand. The other can be taken as pronouncement of judgment on your character. You are not good enough for me so go back to the sideline and wait until some other chap calls your name...

 

So how is this unfair to men again?

 

Just saying.

men also get rejected after getting to know a girl, I think there just as many girls as men who lose interest after a few dates, if not more.

 

I think men have to deal with both types of rejection, while women mostly deal with the second type. But when you combine both types it can really deal a blow to a guy's confidence.

 

being rejected by a random girl makes men question their looks, while rejection after a few dates makes them question their personality and self worth.

[Untouched]

The rules are already changed, I think. Now it is okay for anybody to ask anybody out. That does not mean that anyone "should" or that there is a fairness issue. I WISH I could ask a man out but I can't because I am shy. This is easier for a girl than a guy for sure, since it's traditional for men to ask, but it's not "unfair." It's just life. There are plenty of things that come easier for men than women in the world, too.

 

What's great is how free we can be to do things differently than tradition, if we want to.

[jbelle6]

I agree that we don't need to accept all of them but for the past few decades men have been lectured on not adhering to old gender roles and we need to become more evolved but some women still seem to want to date like it is the 1950s.

 

 

Sure that's me. I like traditional gender roles. And not in a double standard way, you can see by my posting history that I generally side with men on their issues, it's not a want my cake and eat it too. I was raised not to approach men. I guess it's sort of ingrained in me. I still feel rejection, not from approaching them, but if I like someone and they don't approach me. The type of man I like is Dominant and if they want me they'll ask me out. The guys that are too shy wouldn't be my type anyways.

[Woggle]

Sure that's me. I like traditional gender roles. And not in a double standard way, you can see by my posting history that I generally side with men on their issues, it's not a want my cake and eat it too. I was raised not to approach men. I guess it's sort of ingrained in me. I still feel rejection, not from approaching them, but if I like someone and they don't approach me. The type of man I like is Dominant and if they want me they'll ask me out. The guys that are too shy wouldn't be my type anyways.

 

I can respect that as long as there is no double standards with it. If I am doing all the paying and approaching I don't think it is too much too ask that she make me a sandwich once in a while when we are together but say that and a man gets called a misogynist. It's only fair. My marriage though isn't about who does and doesn't wear the pants and I like it like that.

[Potz4prez]

Are you kidding me? Thanks to OLD I usually am dating 3-5 women until I get serious about one. As long as you are decent looking, have some good pics, and funny profile and can give good email/text - it is like an ATM for women. I assure you the same goes for women too. And on too of that, if my female friends' OLD experiences are any indication, we men win out on quality. Seriously, the quality out there is atrocious.

 

Never online dated. Just going off of what I see on this site... which may be a mistake haha.

 

being rejected by a random girl makes men question their looks, while rejection after a few dates makes them question their personality and self worth.

 

Actually, if I get rejected by a girl after multiple dates, I usually question their personality and self worth.

 

However, if I let it get that far with that type of girl, that's my mistake.

[lino]

I always laugh at these discussions.

watching females try their best to justify which traditional roles (which benefit them of course) should be kept and others not.

 

Those hoping for change, I have bad news. You'll be long dead before it happens, if it ever happens.

 

Also, that shooting had nothing to do with any of this stuff. Just another nut case in the USA with easy access to guns.

 

In another couple of months there'll be another mass shooting, then another a few months after that and so on.

[jbelle6]

I can respect that as long as there is no double standards with it. If I am doing all the paying and approaching I don't think it is too much too ask that she make me a sandwich once in a while when we are together but say that and a man gets called a misogynist. It's only fair. My marriage though isn't about who does and doesn't wear the pants and I like it like that.

 

 

Of course. I enjoy those things. And I don't think I've ever called a man a misogynist. If he asks for a sandwich I'd get him a sandwich, I'd rather that than him messing my kitchen to be honest. My family is right from Italy so I'm sure culture could have a lot to do with it as well. If my mother caught me phoning my boyfriend (even after a couple years of dating) she would swat me good and hang up the phone lol.

[Potz4prez]

I can respect that as long as there is no double standards with it. If I am doing all the paying and approaching I don't think it is too much too ask that she make me a sandwich once in a while when we are together but say that and a man gets called a misogynist. It's only fair. My marriage though isn't about who does and doesn't wear the pants and I like it like that.

 

Now that I think about it... I do most of the cooking.

 

I'll just use that as an excuse not to pay on the date. Trade sammiches for covering the bill -.-

 

I always laugh at these discussions.

watching females try their best to justify which traditional roles (which benefit them of course) should be kept and others not.

 

Those hoping for change, I have bad news. You'll be long dead before it happens, if it ever happens.

 

Also, that shooting had nothing to do with any of this stuff. Just another nut case in the USA with easy access to guns.

 

In another couple of months there'll be another mass shooting, then another a few months after that and so on.

 

Uh-oh.. gun debate.

 

Real problem is in mental health btw The Chinese seem pretty fond of mass stabbings when there's no gun around...

[jbelle6]

I always laugh at these discussions.

watching females try their best to justify which traditional roles (which benefit them of course) should be kept and others not.

 

Those hoping for change, I have bad news. You'll be long dead before it happens, if it ever happens.

 

Also, that shooting had nothing to do with any of this stuff. Just another nut case in the USA with easy access to guns.

 

In another couple of months there'll be another mass shooting, then another a few months after that and so on.

 

 

 

 

I don't only choose the aspects of traditional roles that I like. I choose them all. And often that way is far from easier for me. As I said, all of my posts will reflect that. How I live my life doesn't affect your life, so why knock me? I'm not saying anyone else's way is bad. This is a forum for discussion, I am discussing my view. I thought that is what we were all here for. And I seem to be the only one with this stance so not sure why you talk about "all the people" defending traditional roles, may as well have just quoted me.

 

And only half the deaths were caused by guns. You think psychotics won't find another way if there were no guns? Look at the Osaka massacre.

[Untouched]

I always laugh at these discussions.

watching females try their best to justify which traditional roles (which benefit them of course) should be kept and others not.

 

I don't see that happening here. There is room for traditional and non traditional roles. Individuals can choose. That is what is great, I think. I really appreciate it.

 

Those hoping for change, I have bad news. You'll be long dead before it happens, if it ever happens.

 

I guess people who hope for change might not see it happening, but they are free to act however they want. Of course the results might not be what they had been hoping for though!

[Treasa]

Every guy I've ever wanted to be with - and have been with - I've just reached out and snagged. Didn't bother waiting for them to approach me, as patience is not one of my stronger points.

 

Obviously most of the relationships didn't work out, but that's another matter. I pretty much got what I initially went after.

 

I'm not a typical female in any sort of way, however.

[jbelle6]

I can admire that, and most relationships we have won't work out anyways.

I know lots of men that appreciate assertive women very very much.

[xxoo]

I can respect that as long as there is no double standards with it. If I am doing all the paying and approaching I don't think it is too much too ask that she make me a sandwich once in a while when we are together but say that and a man gets called a misogynist. It's only fair. My marriage though isn't about who does and doesn't wear the pants and I like it like that.

 

If it helps, I've made dinner for my husband at least 6 days a week for the past 20 years. I even wear a frilly apron.

 

Is that a fair enough trade off for pursuing me and paying for dates?

[Woggle]

If it helps, I've made dinner for my husband at least 6 days a week for the past 20 years. I even wear a frilly apron.

 

Is that a fair enough trade off for pursuing me and paying for dates?

 

Yes it is. I just don't like hypocrites.

[Mrin]

men also get rejected after getting to know a girl, I think there just as many girls as men who lose interest after a few dates, if not more.

 

I think men have to deal with both types of rejection, while women mostly deal with the second type. But when you combine both types it can really deal a blow to a guy's confidence.

 

being rejected by a random girl makes men question their looks, while rejection after a few dates makes them question their personality and self worth.

 

There is truth to this but it is a hammer/nail thing. To the guy - he selected her

He wooed her. And when she shuts the door he can just move on to the next and the next - approaching women as he sees fit and that he wants. When you are a woman in this traditional role, you get selected, you don't select. You have to choose from those who approach. You say, from these guys who have shown interest rather than being able to go at least try to get the one you want. So, rejection can be extremely crushing as you don't exert the proactive control over your destiny that at least the guy can try to exert.

 

I don't know about you but I would rather be a hammer than a nail...