Why should "the rules" have to change to negate your fears of rejection?

[Anela]

Do you know how many short women insist on dating men over 6ft? Or how many overweight women say they are only attracted to fit men? Trust me, there are quite a few. It has been my experience that many of the 5's think they are 8 or 9.

 

There are short men who lust after tall women, and fat men who only want fit, young women. They seem to have the same mindset. I'm not going to kick someone for having confidence in themselves - I know that I'm nicer to be around when I feel good - but you can't limit this to one gender. I'm short, and I would date someone over 6ft tall. I have also been attracted to men who are shorter than that.

[readynow]

I've never had to approach a man and I don't care what century it is or what 'rules' have changed. I grew up in the 3rd world and still am very traditional - I just couldn't imagine it. It's definitely nothing to do with rejection as I've been rejected in other scenarios e.g. someone I like not liking me back or a guy I've been smiling or giving 'looks' to just walking away

 

Where I grew up, you could be standing in a queue at the bank and a man, whatever shape or size or attractiveness level would say, 'hello baby:cool:, I so love the way you wear your hair and how your jeans hug your hips; could I take you to dinner tonight cos I certainly won't be able to get you out of my mind' And you'd probably laugh and say something witty to throw him off, give him your number or just say 'no thanks' and that's that. The men don't get offended, they probably complement you on something else or leave you alone. Its never an issue.

 

Should my outlook change since I now live in the UK and men and women are expected to be the same non-gender beings? No thanks. Im happy being a woman and allowing my man be a man.

 

So, no, I'm never going to approach a man - even if he were George Clooney and he was the last man alive. It just feels so unnatural to me... Like a deer chasing a tiger

Edited June 1, 2014 by readynow

[jbelle6]

I've never had to approach a man and I don't care what century it is or what 'rules' have changed. I grew up in the 3rd world and still am very traditional - I just couldn't imagine it. It's definitely nothing to do with rejection as I've been rejected in other scenarios e.g. someone I like not liking me back or a guy I've been smiling or giving 'looks' to just walking away

 

Where I grew up, you could be standing in a queue at the bank and a man, whatever shape or size or attractiveness level would say, 'hello baby:cool:, I so love the way you wear your hair and how your jeans hug your hips; could I take you to dinner tonight cos I certainly won't be able to get you out of my mind' And you'd probably laugh and say something witty to throw him off, give him your number or just say 'no thanks' and that's that. The men don't get offended, they probably complement you on something else or leave you alone. Its never an issue.

 

Should my outlook change since I now live in the UK and men and women are expected to be the same non-gender beings? No thanks. Im happy being a woman and allowing my man be a man.

 

So, no, I'm never going to approach a man - even if he were George Clooney and he was the last man alive. It just feels so unnatural to me... Like a deer chasing a tiger

 

 

Exactly!!! They are ignoring biology. This is just how I feel, men are hunters.

[BarackObama]

Rules?? Maybe for other animals because we can think rationally and decide for us.

[mario_C]

When was this golden era of dating? Has it already been stated in this thread?

 

Actually this argument is made by both men and women.

Women complaining where have all the men gone and the men wondering where all the ladies have gone.

The dynamic has changed, not everyone is happy about it.

 

As recently as the 90s things were much better IMO.

It's always been awful and it always will be. At least today it's more direct, almost scientifically streamlined, which only makes it more obvious women and men can never get along and should never try.

 

Don't shoot the messenger...

[jbelle6]

LOL, everyone with a penis is the enemy.

[Woggle]

I've never had to approach a man and I don't care what century it is or what 'rules' have changed. I grew up in the 3rd world and still am very traditional - I just couldn't imagine it. It's definitely nothing to do with rejection as I've been rejected in other scenarios e.g. someone I like not liking me back or a guy I've been smiling or giving 'looks' to just walking away

 

Where I grew up, you could be standing in a queue at the bank and a man, whatever shape or size or attractiveness level would say, 'hello baby:cool:, I so love the way you wear your hair and how your jeans hug your hips; could I take you to dinner tonight cos I certainly won't be able to get you out of my mind' And you'd probably laugh and say something witty to throw him off, give him your number or just say 'no thanks' and that's that. The men don't get offended, they probably complement you on something else or leave you alone. Its never an issue.

 

Should my outlook change since I now live in the UK and men and women are expected to be the same non-gender beings? No thanks. Im happy being a woman and allowing my man be a man.

 

So, no, I'm never going to approach a man - even if he were George Clooney and he was the last man alive. It just feels so unnatural to me... Like a deer chasing a tiger

 

In the States a man would probably get arrested for harassment if he said that to a woman at the bank.

[readynow]

In the States a man would probably get arrested for harassment if he said that to a woman at the bank.

 

Of course, same as in the UK and having now lived here, I'd probably be freaked out if he said that to me. There are more subtle ways of approaching though, like smiling and making small talk in a queue and offering to buy a harmless coffee later or something. The solution however is not for women to start attacking random men to ask them out - it just wouldn't work.

 

Of course there are couples that have met because the woman approached and the man was happy with it but I don't think it's that common.

[R3d]

Do you know how many short women insist on dating men over 6ft?

 

This is what I don't understand. They always tell you to just go for short girls. The problem is they don't want us either. In fact, I was reading that short girls tend to actually prefer very tall guys even more than girls of more average height.

 

See if it was just that easy - go for short girls - short guys like me wouldn't complain nearly as much.

[joystickd]

I will pose this:

 

As women you want to be equal to men in every facet of like. What makes approaching different? Ideally if a person wanted equality then they wanted everything good or bad and not some customized choice of things you want. The woman that hate traditional masculinity and gender roles I ask this. Wouldn't approaching force a change in masculinity and force a change in gender roles? The lines would be essentially blurred. When women approach you would be taking the first true steps to achieving what you really want across the board equality.

 

By refusing to approach you are accepting the "obsolete" model of masculinity and everything that comes along with it. You are accepting the gender roles that have been passed down generations. In all honesty if you refuse you have no reason to complain about masculinity because you as a person are not taking steps to change it. The pimp, player, ladies man, and all other examples of masculinity in terms of successful male/female interactions as it relates to men will still be here. Just like the golddigger, time waster, manipulator and whore will still be here. Women love certain aspects that are traditional because ultimately it relieves them of accountability in a sense because they can take the victim role and society will go along with them.

[GoreSP]

I will pose this:

 

As women you want to be equal to men in every facet of like. What makes approaching different? Ideally if a person wanted equality then they wanted everything good or bad and not some customized choice of things you want. The woman that hate traditional masculinity and gender roles I ask this. Wouldn't approaching force a change in masculinity and force a change in gender roles? The lines would be essentially blurred. When women approach you would be taking the first true steps to achieving what you really want across the board equality.

 

By refusing to approach you are accepting the "obsolete" model of masculinity and everything that comes along with it. You are accepting the gender roles that have been passed down generations. In all honesty if you refuse you have no reason to complain about masculinity because you as a person are not taking steps to change it. The pimp, player, ladies man, and all other examples of masculinity in terms of successful male/female interactions as it relates to men will still be here. Just like the golddigger, time waster, manipulator and whore will still be here. Women love certain aspects that are traditional because ultimately it relieves them of accountability in a sense because they can take the victim role and society will go along with them.

 

 

You make a good point. Unfortunately, there are still a lot of 'feminists' who use equality only when it suits their agenda...

[Eggplant]

Women run a risk approaching men that men don't approaching women. The risk isn't rejection: the risk is NOT being rejected -- yet. A woman who's not interested in a man usually won't waste his time. A man, however, who's not interested in a woman seriously might still waste her time. Outright rejection isn't the worst that can happen.

[Untouched]

Originally Posted by joystickd

I will pose this:

As women you want to be equal to men in every facet of like. What makes approaching different? Ideally if a person wanted equality then they wanted everything good or bad and not some customized choice of things you want.

 

I don't think "equality" includes social behavior like asking people out. If an individual does not feel like asking people out, they might still be a feminist, but just not feel like asking men out for any reason at all.

 

To me, equality is about rights.

 

My background is super conservative and gender roles are CLEARLY defined, and people really do not step out of them. It is very smothering. I love it that I might ask a guy out if I feel like it some day, but so far, I am nowhere near doing it. I am happy that it is a possibility in my world. At the same time I do not think it's okay for me to complain if no guy is asking me out, if I am not willing to ask myself. Lucky for me that is not the case!

[Anela]

You make a good point. Unfortunately, there are still a lot of 'feminists' who use equality only when it suits their agenda...

 

Feminists are also women who know when a man is truly interested in them. My experience has been, as I said before, that when I have to do the approaching, try to keep some sort of interaction going, it isn't going anywhere. I'll go with my instincts each time, thanks.

[Anela]

Women run a risk approaching men that men don't approaching women. The risk isn't rejection: the risk is NOT being rejected -- yet. A woman who's not interested in a man usually won't waste his time. A man, however, who's not interested in a woman seriously might still waste her time. Outright rejection isn't the worst that can happen.

 

Well, this can happen to both genders - that's why the PUA people tend to tell men not to be an "emotional tampon" for a woman. (Lovely imagery, I must say.)

[joystickd]

You make a good point. Unfortunately, there are still a lot of 'feminists' who use equality only when it suits their agenda...

In the case of being the aggressor they refuse because it suits their agenda just like their hatred for prostitution but have no issues with women using men for money.

[joystickd]

Feminists are also women who know when a man is truly interested in them. My experience has been, as I said before, that when I have to do the approaching, try to keep some sort of interaction going, it isn't going anywhere. I'll go with my instincts each time, thanks.

You want to be equal?

[tbf]

As women you want to be equal to men in every facet of like.

No. That's purely your supposition, that equality must overarch every aspect of life where it's not possible for perfect equality. Even between men to men, or women to women, perfect equality doesn't exist.

 

Deal with it.

[joystickd]

Originally Posted by joystickd

I will pose this:

 

 

I don't think "equality" includes social behavior like asking people out. If an individual does not feel like asking people out, they might still be a feminist, but just not feel like asking men out for any reason at all.

 

To me, equality is about rights.

 

My background is super conservative and gender roles are CLEARLY defined, and people really do not step out of them. It is very smothering. I love it that I might ask a guy out if I feel like it some day, but so far, I am nowhere near doing it. I am happy that it is a possibility in my world. At the same time I do not think it's okay for me to complain if no guy is asking me out, if I am not willing to ask myself. Lucky for me that is not the case!

That means you wouldn't have any issue with men calling women sluts or any masculine behavior that most feminists hate because it's social behavior and not rights.

[joystickd]

No. That's purely your supposition, that equality must overarch every aspect of life where it's not possible for perfect equality. Even between men to men, or women to women, perfect equality doesn't exist.

 

Deal with it.

I posed the question to offer another perspective. Hell you have women that complain about masculinity in the traditional sense. Wouldn't this be a step in changing it? I take it you and others love the traditional masculinity as it has been for years.

[Imported]

I will pose this:

 

As women you want to be equal to men in every facet of like. What makes approaching different? Ideally if a person wanted equality then they wanted everything good or bad and not some customized choice of things you want.

 

You don't have to approach either. It is your choice. Men and women are equal here. You are just looking at it wrong.

 

If a woman has a problem where she isn't getting the guys she wants because none of those guys ever approach her, than that is her problem to deal with.

[joystickd]

Well, this can happen to both genders - that's why the PUA people tend to tell men not to be an "emotional tampon" for a woman. (Lovely imagery, I must say.)

Well when dealing with women sometimes that is how it usually goes.

[jbelle6]

I posed the question to offer another perspective. Hell you have women that complain about masculinity in the traditional sense. Wouldn't this be a step in changing it? I take it you and others love the traditional masculinity as it has been for years.

 

 

I do. I don't want to pretend we are equal because we are not the same. I love the differences.

[Anela]

Well when dealing with women sometimes that is how it usually goes.

 

I've been that for a man. It isn't easier to deal with, just because I'm a woman.

[tbf]

I posed the question to offer another perspective. Hell you have women that complain about masculinity in the traditional sense. Wouldn't this be a step in changing it? I take it you and others love the traditional masculinity as it has been for years.

It's less about loving traditional masculinity and more about pragmatism and realism.

 

Dating and mating has nothing to do with socio-political movements. Attraction isn't triggered by ideology.