15 years together, 2 kids, she loves me but says it's over

[hfp]

Well, I don't think I was exaggerating at all. If seeing your kids once every 6 days is OK, because you can't handle speaking to your ex, so be it.

 

I realize you've got all sorts of rationalizations for things, like making your 9 YO walk to you and your mother to carpool, but those kids are seeing their dad melt down and unable to manage his emotions and be a strong role model for them. They WILL suffer for it later in life. I truly hope for their sake you stop doing this 5th grade immature nonsense with your ex, focus solely on your kids, forget boundaries and notes and texts and act like a grown-up and then when the kids are with their mom, go to the gym, punch a bag until you can't move anymore, and cry it all out then.

 

You _are_ exaggerating and you have a distorted view of me and of my situation and what is happening in my life and my kids' lives. Probably because of something you've experienced yourself. Or maybe I have expressed myself very poorly.

 

The kids are not seeing me melt down. Whenever I am with them, I am strong and resourceful and mostly happy. Not that there is anything wrong with kids seeing that parents can be sad too. That it is okay to be sad. In fact, it would be very odd if I weren't sad in this situation.

 

I would like to see them more often and more regularly, and I am slowly getting there. But it is not as simple as you make it. It's a matter of balancing work time, weekend time, the fact that the 2yo is not ready to sleep at my place without her mom and that it would be a bad idea to split up the two kids every other week to have to 9yo live at my place any other week. What we're doing now is that the 9yo gets to be as much with me as she wants and then I make sure to see the 2yo at least once a week, typically two times a week. And I am working to make that even more and more regularly.

 

I would like to see your concrete plan of how often and when I should see my kids, taking all this into account.

[hfp]

We don't disagree. I agree with every word you typed. But that doesn't mean we don't have a responsibility to go past that for our kids.

 

Maybe I am a hair harsh, but as a dad who has dealt with divorce and an ex who has brainwashed his kids up and down I take the parenting thing seriously and think he seems too laissez-faire about his kids feelings for my taste.

 

I'll move out of this thread now.

 

You don't know what kind of father I am. You're making a lot of assumptions. Probably based on yourself.

[bigman1]

To your question about how to answer her bossy texts, i say the following:

1. If the texts are about what to do with your kids, well, they are your kids, too. IF the text is helpful, ie) time for medication or allergies or appointments, then go ahead and do it, unless she is making crap up. Always keep the best interest of the kids at the forefront. Maybe a text that says, meds given or something.

 

2. If it is just crap that she wants you to do, ignore her. They are your kids.

 

3. If it stuff about your "relationship", do not engage. Maybe a text that says, "please keep all texts related to the kids please". Do that a few times and then just scan new text to see if they are about the kids, if not, ignore.

 

4. Be "Joe Friday", from Dragnet. Just the facts or just the kids. Nothing more. Don't give her the satisfaction of knowing that she can get into your head. If you respond, if she sees you struggling to hold emotion in check, she is gonna keep it up. She knows you and how to read your emotions, she has experience with you. Now, YOU change the game, don't respond after you have told her how communication will be limited to the kids only.

 

Here is a little bit of a psychology lesson. If she feels the need to throw stones at you, then she has not let go of you. This is not really a good thing. You see, if she had fully moved on with another dude, she would not have time to mess with you because you were the past and the new man is the present and the future. She is unhappy with her life, herself and you. Not that you want her back, but if she came back, she would destroy your soul. The way to win this battle and make her face her demons is to tell her that you are not going to engage her, tell her the only acceptable topics of conversation, and never let her think that she is getting through those barriers. Then, she will go wild for a bit, a tantrum, if you will. It will happen because she will not have you to vent her unhappiness on. Make her live with herself. She will hate it.

 

The point is to detach. It is hard. I actually like that you had your mother to pick up the kids. The less you interact with her, the better for you. It will take you some time to get over this, but that is par for the course for everyone in your position. Not that it helps, but its like having the flu. Everyone feels like crap, but that does not make you feel any better, at least you know that you are normal.

 

Take away points: Tell her contact is limited to the kids only. for at least 3 or 4 times that she breaks that rule, you remind her in the same manner that she broke it. for example, if she calls, you tell her. If she texts you text her. After 3 or 4 times, then you stop responding at all. Nothing. Scan text to see if they are about kids, if so, address. If not, IGNORE.

[hfp]

Thanks for your reply, bigman1. It makes sense.

 

The story behind her message was this:

 

Some weeks ago, I have told her several times to move her things out of my apartment and to pay back money that she owes me. Instead of dragging it out, having to exchange stuff and deal with each other again and again, do the right thing. Now.

 

I have told her that in a calm and factual manner. I think my reqeust is reasonable?

 

She hasn't responded with anything concrete and I know she is spending a lot of her money on all sorts of other things instead of paying me back. She is also spending her time on all sorts of other things (such as dating a new guy less than a month after the split, and on our 15 year anniversary day, no less), instead of spending time on moving her stuff out of my place.

 

She then wrote the other day that she would move things out next monday. I wrote back that next monday wouldn't work, but that I was going away for a week after that and that she could move her things out then, when I wasn't around.

 

Then came the angry reply. How could she move her things out, who were supposed to watch the kids in the meantime, how could she know which days were okay, the level of information from me was not impressive to say the least [because I am LC], and blah blah blah.

 

In my view, it is not my problem. And she is in no position to make demands or to criticize my communication etc. She could do the right thing and as soon as possible move her things out and pay me back. Suggest a date to me and have her mom or someone else watch the kids, or move her things out when I have the kids, I could then go somewhere else with them.

[Chi townD]

Okay, right now this "woman" isn't the girl you knew. She isn't even the wife you knew. She's gone and is replaced with a selfish monster. She even broke her promise to you about not sleeping with anyone else; yet, 1.5 months later she's going on dates. And don't try to fool yourself into believing that nothing happened. She got d*ck on the brain bad. She fooled around.

 

 

So! The only thing you can do is take control of the only thing you can control and that's YOU!!!

 

 

 

 

First thing you need to do is collect up all her crap, box it up and put it in storage, or have your mom drop it off or have her mom pick it up. Just get rid of it. Then, start making your house or apartment your own! Take down pictures that have her in it and put up artwork that you like. Put new paint on the walls in colors that you like. Replace the future with something new or rearrange the furniture you do have in there. Make the place unrecognizable. Make it yours!

 

 

Then, work on you. Go get a new hairstyle and new wardrobe. Something people are going to notice and like. You want people saying, "DAMN DUDE!!! Looking sharp!" That's going to help your self esteem which is probably in the crapper about now. Then, get to the gym! Run your ass off on the treadmill and push weight. You eat right and get plenty of sleep, you're going to be working on that rock hard and ripped bod that I know girls like! Three things girls LOVE to touch are puppies, kittens and six pack abs!!

 

 

Then, get yourself out there! Get new hobbies. When you find that hobby, I'm certain there are clubs in your area with people that have a shared interest. So, join a cycling club, or a running club, join a men's football league or dive lessons. Cooking classes, dance lessons, photography course. Something that gets you out of the house and interacting with new people.

 

 

Then, travel! Go see the world! Save your money for a trip and go! Hell, save up your money and surprise your kids with a trip to Disney World! They'll love you for it. So, go see the world! It would be awesome if she tries to call you up on your off week with the kids asking if you could watch the kids and you turn around and say, "Can't! I'm actually on my way to do some climbing in New Zealand."

 

 

Finally, be there for your kids. They're sad and confused right now and they need a parent to be there for them right now. You can't depend on your Ex to be there because she so caught up in herself wondering where she'll find next sex partner, that she not paying attention to those kids. So, be that rock for them. Let them know that you always have and always will love them. And they can come to you anytime they have a problem.

 

 

This isn't your fault dude. But, now it's time to take back your life.

[vegas77sw]

Just wanted to say lots of good info and advice... Glad I had the chance to read and reflect.

 

I could relate somewhat to you, hfp... I have two girls aged 9 and 2 as well... we just need to concentrate all firepower on our girls (something Admiral Ackbar would surely say). Stay strong, brother.

[hfp]

Ex just wrote an email, Google Translate with my edits:

 

I know that you have asked me not to tell you about it, but I do not think it should be [our 9 yo daughter], who brings you this news. I am beginning to see [some idiot] and I have talked to [9yo] about it last night, because she asked in detail if I had a boyfriend.

 

When I sent you a message yesterday afternoon, it was actually not what it was about. I really want to talk to you in some way - preferably face to face, in order to avoid misunderstandings. But we can also e-mail. I am really sorry that we have this one situation where we do not talk together about things.

 

I miss you. I miss talking to you, laugh with you, to love the same music and the same movies and have the same frame of reference for a huge pile of stuff. And I miss enormously to have children with you - being able to share the joy and love of our girls. Or at least be able to work together to create a good life for them.

 

I have full respect for you and your need to keep the shutters closed tight against me if this is still what you need? But we have kids together, and we're going to have to deal with each other and collaborate on them the rest of our lives. It does not end. It does not. I am in your life and you are in mine - no matter what.

 

Both girls have a hard time with that communication between us is as bad as it is. The time now is [9yo], who is the messenger - contrary to all good intentions. She's going to take a lot of responsibility, not hers.

 

But when all is said, I will also say that I can see that you are doing a lot to get to see the girls and you take a lot of responsibility for them and to make everything work. You had [9yo] home yesterday when I had meetings. I appreciate that very much. It had been crap for me to have to cancel. And you have them sleeping and take them to the swimming pool and everything else. I know that you do all these things, and they love it. And I see it.

 

Basically I don't know what the hell is going on. So you have to bear with me and my ideas about what is going on. I do not know what else to do.

 

She isn't writing anything i didn't know already. But it upsets me. It upsets me that she is seeing this idiot. It upsets me that she writes that she misses me and misses everything that she has destroyed. In the same ****ing mail?! It upsets me that she bitches about the communication being bad, what the **** did you expect with your behavior?!

 

I have all sorts of ****ed up feelings of hope and never wanting to see her or hear from her again and so on.

 

I don't know what to do, other than NC. I am not going to respond to her selfish, insensitive breadcrumb crap.

 

Any ideas, words, thoughts, repetitions would be welcome.

[Chi townD]

Yeah, delete that crap. You already stated that you knew all of that sh*t. No reason to keep it. All I got from that email was, "I wanted to tell you before you heard it from our daughter" and " Even though I'm dating and screwing some other dude, I don't understand why you're so mad. But it makes me butt hurt that you won't talk to me!"

 

 

Dude, stay NC. She made the choice to leave you. She made the choice to have you out of her life. This wasn't your choice. So, you don't owe her a damn thing. YOU ARE NOT HER FRIEND! If she doesn't like that then TOUGH SH*T!!!! She's been making selfish decisions for herself this whole time and is acting hurt that you've made a decision for yourself not to have any other type of relationship other than co-parenting with her. You're not here to give her everything she wants. That time is over. She no longer has any power over you.

 

 

Stay NC. Do not call. Let all her calls go to voicemail. If they're about the girls, then text her back. If she brings up anything else, ignore it. Continue to be the best damn Dad to those girls! Father of the year!! Then, print up a copy of that email, take it out to the backyard; put it on the ground and piss on it.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Chi townD

[hfp]

I usually do not respond to her messages at all, unless it is absolutely necessary. And then as briefly as possible.

 

But I really want to send her an angry response to this one. Explaining to her that she is immature and insensitive and selfish and that she is garbage and that she should stay the **** away, and why I am angry, tell her all the ****ed up things she have done. Tell her WHY I am not her friend, tell her that she pissed and ****ted all over me and our family and everything she is missing, tell her WHY communication is bad, tell her that she doesn't care about anybody but herself and that she just want me to be her friend so that she can feel better about her decision and her ****ed up behavior, and tell her to go **** herself!!

[Itspointless]

I usually do not respond to her messages at all, unless it is absolutely necessary. And then as briefly as possible.

 

But I really want to send her an angry response to this one. Explaining to her that she is immature and insensitive and selfish and that she is garbage and that she should stay the **** away, and why I am angry, tell her all the ****ed up things she have done. Tell her WHY I am not her friend, tell her that she pissed and ****ted all over me and our family and everything she is missing, tell her WHY communication is bad, tell her that she doesn't care about anybody but herself and that she just want me to be her friend so that she can feel better about her decision and her ****ed up behavior, and tell her to go **** herself!!

I would write back that you have read it and appreciate it if she sticks to communication about your children, as you want to be there for them.

 

It is interesting that she actually still is trying to have her needs met by you. Of-course she misses that, you jumped through hoops for years. Well the time for validating her neediness is over. Tell your oldest that she always can talk with you about everything she wants - including her mother - but that she does not need to. Watch out that your ex does not uses triangulation, as that is not healthy (Triangulation (psychology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

[Chi townD]

I usually do not respond to her messages at all, unless it is absolutely necessary. And then as briefly as possible.

 

But I really want to send her an angry response to this one. Explaining to her that she is immature and insensitive and selfish and that she is garbage and that she should stay the **** away, and why I am angry, tell her all the ****ed up things she have done. Tell her WHY I am not her friend, tell her that she pissed and ****ted all over me and our family and everything she is missing, tell her WHY communication is bad, tell her that she doesn't care about anybody but herself and that she just want me to be her friend so that she can feel better about her decision and her ****ed up behavior, and tell her to go **** herself!!

 

 

Tell us that. Write the letter and post it here. DO NOT SEND IT TO HER! Writing it all out can be very therapeutic for you. But, don't send it to her.

 

 

Why not? You might ask? It's because it's obvious that your silence is making the guilt of what she's done eat away at her. It's driving her batsh*t crazy.

 

 

If you write a letter to her blasting her away, you're giving her an avenue to forgive herself. She'll get angry reading it and then say to herself, "Well, if this is how he feels and this is going to be the way he treats me, then I'm glad I got rid of hfp! It's plain to see that we weren't meant to be together if he talks to me like that!" You just gave her permission to forgive herself for what she did to you.

 

 

If you keep limited NC (I understand that you have kids and you have to communicate to a degree) and you don't talk to her about anything other than the kids. Then, you give her nothing! She has no idea where your head is at. She has no idea if you hate her or if you're mad at her or if you don't give a damn about her. You give her nothing and she has no choice but to hold on to that guilt. And we, as dumpee's, want them to hold onto it. Not as a way to torture them, but to have them learn from it. It teaches them that they can't treat people the way she treated you and expect people to be okay with it!

 

 

But, there's a flip side to this. Because you won't talk to her. , she's going to grill your daughters about you. So, you pretty much have to do the 180 on your kids. Let them see you happy and not having a care in the world! Always be involved and have fun with them. Start living a life, have them waiting with a friend at the finish line of a mud run when you across. Your own cheering section. Get some hobbies and have them see you enjoying those hobbies. Enjoy life and let your daughter see it. Join you in it, because she's going to ask them about you. That's going to drive her even more batsh*t crazy because she won't understand. If you're happy and enjoying life, why can't you two talk? Why is he still this way?

 

 

Wouldn't it be awesome if a conversation between you wife and daughter went something like this:

 

 

"Hi sweetie, how's you Dad?"

 

 

"Oh, he's really good. But he's been busy packing these last few days."

 

 

"Packing for what?"

 

 

"Oh, he's going to the Bahamas while we're here with you for the week."

 

 

"Why is he going to the Bahamas?"

 

 

"I don't know."

 

 

"Well, who's he going with?"

 

 

"I don't know."

 

 

See, batsh*t crazy.

[KarlaB]

Chi TownD I love it! Me and H are still living together and he tries to make small talk with me like nothing is wrong and I try to say very little back. I get the NC but as the one being dumped, it drives me bat*hit crazy when I am not talking to him. How do you get over not knowing what the other is doing? Its sounds easy but geesh it's not.

[bigman1]

I would respond by setting the ground rules to her. I'd say the following:

" in the future there is no need for you to ever say that you miss me, us or anything. Those feelings and thoughts no longer matter, are not productive, are perceived as manipulative and mean spirited and serve no legitimate purpose. Let's not have any more of that. Please limit the texts to collaborative parent issues. We are no longer in each other's lives; instead, we are in our children's lives and when they are not involved, neither are we. If our daughter has any issues with her mother having a bf, let's make sure she understands proper relationships and that we love her. When I introduce her to the woman in my life, I will make certain it is done properly."

 

Take the time to detach. Don't put any angry things in writing. Also, telling her how messed up she is and was serves no purpose.

[Chi townD]

Chi TownD I love it! Me and H are still living together and he tries to make small talk with me like nothing is wrong and I try to say very little back. I get the NC but as the one being dumped, it drives me bat*hit crazy when I am not talking to him. How do you get over not knowing what the other is doing? Its sounds easy but geesh it's not.

 

If you actually live with your husband, but you're possibly heading for divorce, then you really can't do NC. But, you are set to do a modified 180. The 180 kind of was developed for significant others who have cheated on you and is on the fence about leaving the marriage or relationship. But, if cheating wasn't the case here, then you can do a modified one. If you don't know what the 180 is, then here's the list:

 

 

180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)

 

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
   
2. No frequent phone calls.
   
3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
   
4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
   
5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
   
6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
   
7. Don't ask for reassurances.
   
8. Don't buy or give gifts.
   
9. Don't schedule dates together.
   
10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
    
11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
    
12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
    
13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
    
14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
    
15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
    
16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
    
17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
    
18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
    
19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
    
20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
    
21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
    
22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
    
23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
    
24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
    
25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
    
26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
    
27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
    
28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
    
29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
    
30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
    
31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
    
32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
    
33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."
    

 

The 180 will make you seem stronger and that you can survive without them. It will also show them that you are moving on with YOUR life without them. And if your husband still isn't interested in fixing the marriage; well, the 180 helps you disengage from the marriage. So, pick and chose what best applies to your situation from the above list and apply them to your life.

[KarlaB]

Yes I am very familiar with the 180 as in years past I tried to prevent the divorce. There was no cheating (as far as I know) he just says he is unhappy, wants out, not willing to work on it. So I have to accept that even though it's not what I want. Thanks for the list, it's been awhile since I revisited it. There are several things on there that I already follow.