18yrs is enough

[Eggplant]

I'm betting the true relationship actually died years ago, and instead of taking action, either to fight for it or kill it, you both just went about your business for years and years and tried not to think about it.

[alwayshere]

I'm betting the true relationship actually died years ago, and instead of taking action, either to fight for it or kill it, you both just went about your business for years and years and tried not to think about it.

 

Why would you bet that?

[AmyBamy]

Believe it or not, it isn't always the sex-starved person's fault they are starved. Believe it or not, sometimes the starver is just. Plain. Selfish.

 

No one should have to EARN affection from the person who promised to love and cherish them.

 

This times a thousand! I have no idea why people expect the neglected partner to hustle it up and make things work when they aren't the problem! The person who misrepresented their libido is the problem! The person who believes that just because they are married now they don't have to work at it anymore is the problem. The person who took on a spouse and a family (with children) and can't find it in themselves to devote anything to the primary relationship is the problem! Lazy, selfish, whatever they are, it's ridiculous. And even more ridiculous that people expect that partner to fix the issue and try harder, do more, be whatever. It's like an alternate universe or something!

[Eggplant]

Why would you bet that?

 

 

According to the OP, for the last 18 years, his wife has rejected him in the bedroom and it hasn't bothered her that he's going without.

 

 

I'm taking the OP's word to be 100% accurate for the sake of my response, because in any case, the whole point of my response is to assist HIM. So if he gave misinformation, then that only ends up in responses that don't help him.

 

 

But anyways, if it is so that the wife doesn't care whether he's miserable, then she's been emotionally out of the relationship for a long time.

 

 

So I guess I'm betting given the OP's account is accurate, and if it isn't, that's not my problem.

[Sparty97]

I just wonder why wait 18 years? There must have been some sort of trigger to make you so convinced after all that time? And if you waited that long already, and since you have to wait a few months to be able to file for divorce anyway, why not make your intentions clear, show her the divorce papers filled out... maybe she will "wake up" and surprise you? At any rate you have nothing to lose. If you do that I would encourage you not to be cynical about her efforts (even though it's very hard not to be)

 

 

There has been no "trigger" just a slow build. I have been thinking about divorce for a couple of years at least.

[Sparty97]

I agree with this. I'm not sure why the OP keeps posting because it's clear he's going to divorce his wife, but it doesn't sounds like he's given her a fair chance.

 

-18 yrs of marriage isn't a fair shot?

 

Over 20 times they've "discussed" this issue. What has his wife had to say about it?

 

-As I have stated, she says she will make efforts and does not.

 

Does the OP make any effort to understand where she's coming from?

 

-She has made it pretty clear where she is coming from. She either doesn't enjoy or doesn't think about physical intimacy. Either way the result is the same and my unhappiness doesn't seem to matter to her.

 

From reading his posts in this thread, it doesn't sound like he gives two shats about her. It's all about him needing sex.

 

-Isn't physical intimacy an important part of a marital relationship?

 

That's something that can be worked through in marriage counseling.

 

-Really? Is it? I read a study that said 90% of those that receive marital counseling end in divorce. Why go through something at 100 bucks an hour to end up where I want to be anyway?

 

If he's anywhere near as defensive with his wife as he is to posters in here, I don't think his wife feels safe to communicate with him.

 

-I have position/opinion and I state it. If that is being defensive so be it.

[Sparty97]

After re-reading this thread I still strongly believe that divorce is the answer to my problem. I do think it will be something of a shock to her and I owe it to her and the last 20+yrs of our lives to give her another chance.

 

I don't believe that anything is going to change but I will give her the couple of months we have prior to being able to file to make her case.

 

It seems silly to lay down demands "We must have sex x number of times" etc. But I think I will simply put the ball in her court.

 

-If you aren't interested in staying in this marriage (in other words making real change in the current situation) say so now and we can separate.

 

-If you are you have the next couple of months to prove it.

 

-I won't bring up counseling but if she does I will attend.

 

I know this sounds cold, but I think I have to be absolutely concrete with her.

[alwayshere]

Bottom line, sparty, there are a lot of people who just plain don't think se matters, and that if you are not getting any, it HAS to be your fault.

 

That is probably because they withhold sex themselves, and this topic steps on their toes.

[Snowflower]

After re-reading this thread I still strongly believe that divorce is the answer to my problem. I do think it will be something of a shock to her and I owe it to her and the last 20+yrs of our lives to give her another chance.

 

I don't believe that anything is going to change but I will give her the couple of months we have prior to being able to file to make her case.

 

It seems silly to lay down demands "We must have sex x number of times" etc. But I think I will simply put the ball in her court.

 

-If you aren't interested in staying in this marriage (in other words making real change in the current situation) say so now and we can separate.

 

-If you are you have the next couple of months to prove it.

 

-I won't bring up counseling but if she does I will attend.

 

I know this sounds cold, but I think I have to be absolutely concrete with her.

 

I like your thinking here. And FWIW, I give you kudos for giving her a final chance to make some much needed changes in your marriage. I know you've tried a lot of things already.

 

Are you going to sit her down and tell her all this point blank, and make it absolutely crystal clear that unless things change, you will be divorcing her?

[Snowflower]

Bottom line, sparty, there are a lot of people who just plain don't think se matters, and that if you are not getting any, it HAS to be your fault.

 

That is probably because they withhold sex themselves, and this topic steps on their toes.

 

Yep, that was me. I admit that was I not the perfect spouse in that regard. I paid the price dearly and it is something I regret.

 

So, I try to help others when I happen to read here who might be in a similar situation. I try to give perspective from the other side and hope that my painful mistakes will help someone else.

[alwayshere]

If a BS came here, and the majority of posts was asking him/her what they did to make the WS cheat, that would infuriate people.

 

And yet when someone hurting from YEARS of sexual starvation comes to a forum, what most people do is try to figure out what THEY did wrong not to EARN the sex they want.

 

hat is wrong.

[bwright42tx]

-Really? Is it? I read a study that said 90% of those that receive marital counseling end in divorce. Why go through something at 100 bucks an hour to end up where I want to be anyway?

 

100% (or 99.999999%) of the people that go to MC do so because they are having problems in their relationship. So it's not surprising a large percentage of those divorce. As oldshirt pointed out, all MC does is help identify the problems and where change is needed. You or Her still have to be willing and able to make the changes.

 

As for your prior comment about court mandated counseling, broken families have a huge impact on society, it's in societies best interest to encourage them to work through their problems. Also, most court ordered counseling is at significantly cheaper rates than the private sector, some people can't afford the counseling until the court orders it.

[bwright42tx]

If a BS came here, and the majority of posts was asking him/her what they did to make the WS cheat, that would infuriate people.

 

And yet when someone hurting from YEARS of sexual starvation comes to a forum, what most people do is try to figure out what THEY did wrong not to EARN the sex they want.

 

hat is wrong.

 

I think sometimes the issue isn't a lack of sympathy, but maybe just a lack of properly explaining what they mean.

 

I think the OP would be justified in divorcing his wife, but it may be salvageable too.

 

The problem is, his wife isn't here asking how she can learn to want sex with her husband more...so naturally the advice will focus on him. Doesn't mean it's his fault, but he can't change his wife, he can only change himself. So we should examine things HE can do differently to have a positive impact, or things he might have done in the past that have a negative impact.

 

We can sympathize with him, we can see that the problem could be 100% his wife's, but in terms of giving good advice, we only have him to focus on.

[alwayshere]

I think sometimes the issue isn't a lack of sympathy, but maybe just a lack of properly explaining what they mean.

 

I think the OP would be justified in divorcing his wife, but it may be salvageable too.

 

The problem is, his wife isn't here asking how she can learn to want sex with her husband more...so naturally the advice will focus on him. Doesn't mean it's his fault, but he can't change his wife, he can only change himself. So we should examine things HE can do differently to have a positive impact, or things he might have done in the past that have a negative impact.

 

We can sympathize with him, we can see that the problem could be 100% his wife's, but in terms of giving good advice, we only have him to focus on.

 

I guess that makes sense if we walk a BS through what they may have done to make their WS vulnerable?

[giotto]

The problem is, his wife isn't here asking how she can learn to want sex with her husband more...

 

There's nothing to learn... if you read Sparty's other threads, you would know that she has mental problems, she is on a ton of drugs and obviously has no libido whatsoever... I don't think it's entirely her fault, meaning she is not doing withholding sex on purpose. It is what it is. My wife is the same. After many years, I've given up because she is not prepared to "fix herself". The awful thing is that you end up thinking it's all your fault. And it ain't. I think the OP has to realize this and move on if she can't be fixed. Or stay for the child...

[rester]

There's nothing to learn... if you read Sparty's other threads, you would know that she has mental problems, she is on a ton of drugs and obviously has no libido whatsoever... I don't think it's entirely her fault, meaning she is not doing withholding sex on purpose. It is what it is. My wife is the same. After many years, I've given up because she is not prepared to "fix herself". The awful thing is that you end up thinking it's all your fault. And it ain't. I think the OP has to realize this and move on if she can't be fixed. Or stay for the child...

 

This does sound like a lost cause. From this thread alone, I was under the impression that the only thing the OP was concerned with was the lack of sex, and that he didn't put forth much effort in understanding the root cause of the lack of sex. The sexless part of relationships is generally a symptom of larger problems, and finding the root cause can sometimes help. It doesn't sound like the OP's wife has any interest in trying to get to the bottom of it. MC, or IC for his wife, could have uncovered the root cause years ago, but after 18 years it seems unlikely going forward. And uncovering the root cause may not have solved anything, either. If his wife is a lesbian, for instance, the relationship is still going to end, but at least they'd know why. If I was in the OP's situation, I would want to at least try to understand why it happened and what the issues were. I agree that his wife is probably not withholding the sex on purpose. She has deeper issues.

 

I just hate to see people drop the bomb of divorce on their significant others, especially in a marriage, without giving their partner adequate warning. Contrary to what I posted earlier, it sounds like there's been plenty of warning.

[Sparty97]

There's nothing to learn... if you read Sparty's other threads, you would know that she has mental problems, she is on a ton of drugs and obviously has no libido whatsoever... I don't think it's entirely her fault, meaning she is not doing withholding sex on purpose. It is what it is. My wife is the same. After many years, I've given up because she is not prepared to "fix herself". The awful thing is that you end up thinking it's all your fault. And it ain't. I think the OP has to realize this and move on if she can't be fixed. Or stay for the child...

 

While I am sure they don't help, her lack of libido began prior to any clinical diagnosis and drug treatments.

[JamesM]

After re-reading this thread I still strongly believe that divorce is the answer to my problem. I do think it will be something of a shock to her and I owe it to her and the last 20+yrs of our lives to give her another chance.

 

I don't believe that anything is going to change but I will give her the couple of months we have prior to being able to file to make her case.

 

It seems silly to lay down demands "We must have sex x number of times" etc. But I think I will simply put the ball in her court.

 

-If you aren't interested in staying in this marriage (in other words making real change in the current situation) say so now and we can separate.

 

-If you are you have the next couple of months to prove it.

 

-I won't bring up counseling but if she does I will attend.

 

I know this sounds cold, but I think I have to be absolutely concrete with her.

 

As you may know, I understand what you are going through. I certainly support your decision if that is what you choose.

 

BUT...what you are proposing above sounds more like an ultimatum than a decision.

 

It doesn't sound very concrete to me.

 

I predict....she WILL change to a degree. She will give you what you want. You will have more sex than you have had in awhile. She will make changes. And her changes will be enough to keep you in the marriage for the next few months. You will decide that you love her again because she seemingly cares enough to have sex with you.

 

In two months, you will be amazed at how wonderful your marriage and sex life is.

 

And then....slowly things will revert back to what they are now. It will be slow enough that you will not even realize it. Then one day, you will wake up and realize that you are still in a marriage that is sexless (by your definition).

 

Will you then present her with one more chance? Is this the first time you have given her "one more chance" over the 18 years?

 

Let me say that I like many, have given that "one more chance" also known as an ultimatum. In my case, we go up and down. In my case, I like everything else about my marriage and her to keep me here. I know that I love my wife. I know that I would miss her horribly even if I had plenty of sex with some other woman. So I know I want to stay even in the bad times.

 

My question to you is....IF you decide that your life would be better off without her.....

 

Why not simply tell her that there are two options: separation with the possibility of starting over with "dating" or immediate divorce?

 

Giving her one more chance will simply prolong your sexless marriage IMO. But maybe I am missing something.

[JamesM]

There's nothing to learn... if you read Sparty's other threads, you would know that she has mental problems, she is on a ton of drugs and obviously has no libido whatsoever... I don't think it's entirely her fault, meaning she is not doing withholding sex on purpose. It is what it is. My wife is the same. After many years, I've given up because she is not prepared to "fix herself". The awful thing is that you end up thinking it's all your fault. And it ain't. I think the OP has to realize this and move on if she can't be fixed. Or stay for the child...

 

If this is the case and even if her diagnosis came after the marriage, then, Sparty, you may need to decide if your vow included living with someone "for better or for worse."

 

If you feel that her lack of interest in sex is simply a voluntary decision with no influence from her mental illness (assuming) or side effects of the drugs, then your decision to present her with an ultimatum may be appropriate. But if her lack of libido is out of her control, then your pressure for change is like asking an impotent man to perform on command. It simply won't happen.

[giotto]

While I am sure they don't help, her lack of libido began prior to any clinical diagnosis and drug treatments.

 

yep... here too... they do exacerbate the problem, though... remember, the problem is the root cause - which is bad enough - and then the meds supposedly fix one problem, but make the "other" a lot worse.. so, whatever they do, you are going to be worse off... got the t-shirt...

[giotto]

If this is the case and even if her diagnosis came after the marriage, then, Sparty, you may need to decide if your vow included living with someone "for better or for worse."

 

If you feel that her lack of interest in sex is simply a voluntary decision with no influence from her mental illness (assuming) or side effects of the drugs, then your decision to present her with an ultimatum may be appropriate. But if her lack of libido is out of her control, then your pressure for change is like asking an impotent man to perform on command. It simply won't happen.

 

yes, he has to establish that, I totally agree. In my case, as you know, it was fixable, but she didn't want to fix herself. It's pretty much a tricky situation. I just wished I had known about this 15 years ago...

[dichotomy]

My wife and I have had discussions on "libido" and "in the mood"

 

I honestly believe there are two types main sexual beings. Ones who are in "it" for themselves (could be pleasure, could be they want something in exchange for sex, or need something out of having sex), and those who enjoy pleasing those they care and love. I suppose many people have a mix.

 

At least half of the reason I like sex is pleasing my partner. If I was paralyzed from the waist down, and it so suited my woman's needs - I would be more than happy to use my mouth, tongue, hands, toys, words, to see her pleasured, her joy in the bedroom.

 

I am always disappointed in spouses who use "libido" - as a reason not to take care of the partners. So selfish.

 

Now if your suffering from severe mental health (like severe depression) or in physical health pain... and unable to even enjoy a nice dinner out - or movies - or a walk - what ever - ok your hurting skip it. But 9 times of ten this is not the case they are still willing to enjoy other activities of sorts.

 

Understand to anyone reading this - I am not saying submitting to what ever your spouse wants sexually - giving when its against your will....or there are legit issues in the marriage -or its degrading.... but its about whether your a giving spouse and see joy in your partners joy or not.

Edited June 5, 2014 by dichotomy

[AmyBamy]

After re-reading this thread I still strongly believe that divorce is the answer to my problem. I do think it will be something of a shock to her and I owe it to her and the last 20+yrs of our lives to give her another chance.

 

I don't believe that anything is going to change but I will give her the couple of months we have prior to being able to file to make her case.

 

It seems silly to lay down demands "We must have sex x number of times" etc. But I think I will simply put the ball in her court.

 

-If you aren't interested in staying in this marriage (in other words making real change in the current situation) say so now and we can separate.

 

-If you are you have the next couple of months to prove it.

 

-I won't bring up counseling but if she does I will attend.

 

I know this sounds cold, but I think I have to be absolutely concrete with her.

 

Strange because to me, what sounds cold, is that someone who married you and had you promise to forsake all others seems to really not give a **** at all about your well being or happiness within your primary relationship. You are giving her a lot more than I would give her at this point in the relationship. It sure sounds like she would have a sexless marriage if she could, like that is what she wants. Unfortunately, a lot of women decide that they want this sometime AFTER the man marries them. In those cases I say cut the dead weight and find a woman who is able to have an adult relationship with you. If a woman can't balance being a mother and a wife (and yes, even having a job) then she needs to give one of them up and since most won't because they like the security of being married - I would make that choice for her. She really has already made it she is just banking on you not leaving because she can tell everyone that you "just complained that I didn't have enough sex with him, he's such a pig".

 

You have to do what you believe to be best and right for you and your family. But I would remind you that in a relationship where your needs are constantly dismissed and the other person's needs (to not have sex) always trump yours and are constantly given value while your needs are not, the hope of it ever being happy are pretty slim.

[Sparty97]

Strange because to me, what sounds cold, is that someone who married you and had you promise to forsake all others seems to really not give a **** at all about your well being or happiness within your primary relationship. You are giving her a lot more than I would give her at this point in the relationship. It sure sounds like she would have a sexless marriage if she could, like that is what she wants. Unfortunately, a lot of women decide that they want this sometime AFTER the man marries them. In those cases I say cut the dead weight and find a woman who is able to have an adult relationship with you. If a woman can't balance being a mother and a wife (and yes, even having a job) then she needs to give one of them up and since most won't because they like the security of being married - I would make that choice for her. She really has already made it she is just banking on you not leaving because she can tell everyone that you "just complained that I didn't have enough sex with him, he's such a pig".

 

You have to do what you believe to be best and right for you and your family. But I would remind you that in a relationship where your needs are constantly dismissed and the other person's needs (to not have sex) always trump yours and are constantly given value while your needs are not, the hope of it ever being happy are pretty slim.

 

I think one thing is fairly sure. When and if we get divorced I will not be marrying again.

[oldshirt]

What do her daddy (he is dead) and family have to do with anything? The rest sounds like a nice scam for MC's.

 

I was speaking figuratively. Her friends and family etc and some of yours are going to hold YOU responsible for the failure of your marriage and the breakup of your home. She is going to make you out to be some kind of selfish, insatiable pervert who leaves his wife and family to go out and pursue poon.

 

My point was if you enter into counseling in good faith, you can look her friends and family in the eye and tell them that you tried everything you could and left no stone unturned to try to preserve your marriage.