oldshirt Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) Honestly it would be easier if I could talk her into an open marriage. Open marriages are easy for women, not for married men. It's easier for men to either cheat or just leave and be single than it is to have a successful open marriage. If a couple agrees to have play partners on the side, men will line up down the street to get a piece of a woman with a hall pass and they'll consider themselves privileged to be able to do it. Women typically want nothing to do with a man who has his wife's blessing to play around. It's honestly easier to cheat. I know couples in open marriages where the guy actually has his wife's blessing to have GFs on the side but he has to pretend to cheating behind his wife's back. In other words the GF will cheat with him behind his wife's back but not hook up with him if he has her blessing. Anyway, none of that is really here nor there. The truth is something is holding you back from pulling the ejection lever. You've had 18 years of misery and dissatisfaction and now she is going to drag it out longer by "trying" and she's going to try to make you feel guilty by moving forward with the divorce while she is seeing Drs and "working on the marriage." I know the common mantra is to give someone a fair chance to fix things but this has been going on for almost two decades. Is she really going to turn into a porn star now after all these years? Are you really going to stay and be happy if she does? Are you going to make her jump through hoops for a couple months and then dump her anyway? Or are you going to let her drag this out by staying while she "trys?" Edited June 10, 2014 by oldshirt 1 Link to post Share on other sites
atreides Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) Open marriages are easy for women, not for married men. It's easier for men to either cheat or just leave and be single than it is to have a successful open marriage. If a couple agrees to have play partners on the side, men will line up down the street to get a piece of a woman with a hall pass and they'll consider themselves privileged to be able to do it. Women typically want nothing to do with a man who has his wife's blessing to play around. It's honestly easier to cheat. I know couples in open marriages where the guy actually has his wife's blessing to have GFs on the side but he has to pretend to cheating behind his wife's back. In other words the GF will cheat with him behind his wife's back but not hook up with him if he has her blessing. " Is that because women want to feel they are more than the wife or is this something else as to why? To the OP I respect that instead of cheating you will divorce first, that is the right way of handling it if your marriage is for not. Edited June 10, 2014 by atreides Link to post Share on other sites
beach Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Intimacy is as important as sex. But from what the OP described - even if sex happens more frequently, is his wife capable of providing that feeling of closeness and bonding that they seem to also lack over the years? They seem to disrespect each other on many levels - how can that be fixed as well? Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Is that because women want to feel they are more than the wife or is this something else as to why? . It's not in the female nomenclature to a man's side dish for just sex. If a man has his wife's blessing to play around and he is remaining married to her that means there is no doubt that the playmate is strictly a side dish and always will be. If a man is playing with permission then the playmate can make no justification and no denial that she is simply a sperm receptacle for his extra fun on the side. If a man is single or is straying, then she can make the rationalisation that there is something more to the arrangement than just sex and can justify it that there may be a future to the relationship. Even with a ONS from the bar, people can rationalize in their heads that this may be love at first sight and there may be more to it. With a married man playing with permission, there is no doubt and no rationalization that there may be more to it. .....and women want what other women want. If a man is married and she doesn't allow him to play around, that makes other women desire him more. It's a DHV if another woman mate guards him. If his wife allows him to play around, that means she doesn't want him and doesn't want to have sex with him herself and that is a huge DLV in other women's eyes. Link to post Share on other sites
Clockwork Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Do I sense a touch of contradiction here? We are too quick... 18 years is a long time... You don't really bother to read entire posts do you? We are too quick to pack it in with a marriage. 18 years is a long time to be married, so fight for it is what I am saying. Something kept you there that long. We always think the grass is greener on the other side when it usually isn't. Get to the root of the problem. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Get to the root of the problem. I didn't read your post and you didn't read the thread... he's been trying to fix it for 18 years... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 It's not in the female nomenclature to a man's side dish for just sex. If a man has his wife's blessing to play around and he is remaining married to her that means there is no doubt that the playmate is strictly a side dish and always will be. If a man is playing with permission then the playmate can make no justification and no denial that she is simply a sperm receptacle for his extra fun on the side. If a man is single or is straying, then she can make the rationalisation that there is something more to the arrangement than just sex and can justify it that there may be a future to the relationship. Even with a ONS from the bar, people can rationalize in their heads that this may be love at first sight and there may be more to it. With a married man playing with permission, there is no doubt and no rationalization that there may be more to it. .....and women want what other women want. If a man is married and she doesn't allow him to play around, that makes other women desire him more. It's a DHV if another woman mate guards him. If his wife allows him to play around, that means she doesn't want him and doesn't want to have sex with him herself and that is a huge DLV in other women's eyes. Not necessarily true. Not all women feel this way about married/taken men - some women respect that he's married. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Not necessarily true. Not all women feel this way about married/taken men - some women respect that he's married. I agree on this... Link to post Share on other sites
jbelle6 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I am frightened that anyone would say once a month is good. I want sex every day till I'm 80 willing I am alive that long. It always amazes me. I am a girl who is careful who I sleep with. I'm old fashioned maybe but it's a big deal to me. So when someone isn't getting it in their relationship, why is it suddenly no big deal? IT IS TO ME! Why does it become, "well if it's JUST the sex that's bothering you maybe try MC", you're shallow and just want sex, etc. etc. Sex makes me feel close and loved, not getting it makes me feel rejected. My marriage was sexless for 6 years and that was about all of that I was having. It made me feel rejected, humiliated, unloved, unattractive. I have literally a closet of lingerie, no good. It shattered any self esteem I had. The problem with my ex may be similar to OP's problem with his wife but I won't get into that. I guess what I am saying is that this IS a huge deal, and why is it shameful to say it is? I find holding out on sex pretty abusive to be honest. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 It looks like Sparty is missing... Link to post Share on other sites
beatcuff Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 ... I let her know what my plan was. That when it was a possibility in a couple of months that I would be filing for divorce unless there were some major changes evident in that time. ... cool, you took the first step NOW you need to follow up. this is how YOU failed in the past. you bitched then walked away. once a month revisit this TOGETHER. let her know if she is headed in the right direction. keep in mind there maybe setbacks AND she may just decide to move on herself ("i am tired of trying to reach your impossible goal"). Link to post Share on other sites
DarkKnight1 Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Ay man, If You Aint Happy Then You Aint Happy. You Happiness Comes Before Any Amount Of Years 'Being Together' 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sparty97 Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share Posted June 26, 2014 I just wanted to throw an update out there: Since I let her know my plan things have been ok, not great, We have made love one time in that space, but on the upside things have been generally more intimate, playful, etc. I don't want to feel like I am keeping score and I certainly don't want mercy sex. What would be nice is a path to mutual intimacy. We went out of town for our anniversary weekend, but our son went with us so it became more of a Father's Day/Family weekend. It was fun, but not remotely adult. In about 2 weeks our son will be visiting his aunt for a week. I think that week could be a big test for our relationship. I hope she sees it that way as well. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 wouldn't hold my breath... but you never know... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sparty97 Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 3 times in the last week. It has been probably 15 years since we have been this active. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 3 times in the last week. It has been probably 15 years since we have been this active. glad to hear that... I hope you are back on the right track... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Sparty97 Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 Well, we aren't on the wrong track that's for sure. Still cautious, but trying to just go with the flow. Link to post Share on other sites
The Like Fairy Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Be sure to give us an update after the son goes out to his aunts for 2 weeks. I wish you luck but after having experienced a similar 16 year marriage I can tell you with great confidence that this increased sex drive is just a temporary fix on her end to buy time. It won't last. Give it a year and you'll see. She is grasping at straws and this renewed fake sex drive will taper down again over time. She just isn't into sex with you (and maybe not anyone). I am a woman and it was my ex husband who had the dismal sex drive, he faked renewed sexual interest whenever talk of divorce came up. Been divorced several years now and life is GREAT. Should have left him years earlier. Trust your intuition here. And, time will reveal all anyway. I vote divorce her. Good luck either way Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I hate to be pessimistic too, but having gone through two such periods, I would agree with TLF. The probability of this being permanent is less than 50-50 IMO. I just hope I am wrong for your sake. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I hate to be pessimistic too, but having gone through two such periods, I would agree with TLF. The probability of this being permanent is less than 50-50 IMO. I just hope I am wrong for your sake. You are too optimistic... I wish all the best to the OP, but I did the same - threatened divorce - and even so she made a half-baked effort... everything reverted back after a few weeks. That was when I understood it was a lost cause. She kept promising until she had enough and said things would never change and she would understand if I left her. I was defeated... because by then I had decided to stay... Link to post Share on other sites
tommyr Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Since when has you sex life been drying up? You've been together around 20 yrs. so that is a normal decline Completely NOT true! Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I wish all the best to the OP, but I did the same - threatened divorce - and even so she made a half-baked effort... everything reverted back after a few weeks. That was when I understood it was a lost cause. She kept promising until she had enough and said things would never change and she would understand if I left her. I was defeated... because by then I had decided to stay... Old poker saying - never bluff unless you're ready to be called. I understand the frustration but I wouldn't bring up separation/divorce unless I had reached a point where I was mentally, emotionally and logistically ready to follow through. Once your spouse figures out you won't really do it, you're screwed (figuratively )... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Old poker saying - never bluff unless you're ready to be called. I understand the frustration but I wouldn't bring up separation/divorce unless I had reached a point where I was mentally, emotionally and logistically ready to follow through. Once your spouse figures out you won't really do it, you're screwed (figuratively )... Mr. Lucky I wasn't bluffing... I had my bag ready... but then she said she would compromised and I stayed... then, when nothing happened, I got my bag ready again. She pleaded and I stayed. Funnily enough, same ol' story. By that time I had decided that, regardless of the outcome, I wasn't going to go. I didn't care any more. So, obviously, everything is back to square one. Only that this time I lost interest... she can do whatever she likes... we are not husband and wife any more, as far as I'm concerned... Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 she can do whatever she likes... we are not husband and wife any more, as far as I'm concerned... My point exactly. The one that cares the least has the most power in these situations and now your marriage - at least this part of it - is on her terms. Trust me, I have no solution to offer. And I admire your resolve in hanging in there for your kids. Better man than me, I couldn't do it... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 My point exactly. The one that cares the least has the most power in these situations and now your marriage - at least this part of it - is on her terms. Trust me, I have no solution to offer. And I admire your resolve in hanging in there for your kids. Better man than me, I couldn't do it... Mr. Lucky It's not on her terms any more... she has no power to control me... sex is out of the window. Not that she did in a nasty way. She is a rather selfish woman. But I know where that comes from. I'm not better than anybody. It was my decision. In fact, apart from giving up sex, my life is pretty good... she is a good woman, just rather strange... Link to post Share on other sites
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