How many APs here had an A with someone who was being abused in their marriage?

[AmyBamy]

I think that this adds a whole different level of layers to an affair. Abuse can come in many forms. Emotional, verbal, psychological, physical. I have had a lot of contact with exMMs wife over the past almost year and I feel abused already. He never used the word abused, but the more I see of this the more I realize that he was and has been abused for probably the majority of his marriage. Not only that but we all know that when you try to leave an abusive person they usually become even more abusive in an attempt to keep that control that they have always had. And for men I'm sure that few would admit to being abused or tell many people about it if they were.

 

I honestly wonder how many affairs begin because a married person is afraid to leave their children with an abusive partner? Or afraid to escalate the abuse that they are already receiving?

 

How many of you APs were or are in an affair with an abused married person? And if you have been, does that alleviate the guilt that some feel that you are supposed to have? Have there been studies done on this type of thing?

[Koopa]

The MW I was with was a very lonely person, in a way she had cabin fever from her H leaving her at home with their 2 year old son and rarely getting out of the house. He kept her chained to the house with their child and since she had no transportation she had no choice but to stay home and watch their "mistake" they had after only a couple months of dating. On top of this he never shows her any affection in or out of the bedroom.

 

As far as I know he was never physically abusive, but I believe he was abusive in a passive psychological way. Leaving her with a feeling of worthlessness.

[2sunny]

My exH was extremely abusive. I never considered cheating as an excuse for HIS bad behavior.

 

Cheating would have said more about me than him.

 

Instead of cheating as a solution - I chose to divorce him after 20 years of M. THAT is a solution!

 

My conscience would never allow me to be proud of myself if I found my solution in cheating, talk about taking a bad situation and making it worse...

[The Way I Am]

I don't think abuse makes there any less reason to feel guilt for an affair.

 

Though personally, I can be a more understanding of a person who has an affair for that reason than one who is has a "happy marriage" but wants to sleep with other people. Abuse wears a person down to where they're nowhere close to their best self. Abuse causes unhealthy thought patterns and unhealthy choices. The abuse is not the victim's fault. Yeah, they choose to stay, but abusers are naturally skilled at manipulating good-hearted people to stay with them. I'm sure plenty of people have been abused and didn't cheat, but no one's situation is the same as another. So I'm not going to judge someone as harshly for something they did when they were emotionally broken down by abuse than I would someone who doesn't have those troubles.

 

I know someone who recently ended an affair with a MM who is abused by his wife. If anything, I'd say getting confirmation of the affair and knowing he still hadn't left even though they had told people they were getting divorced is what led her to break it off. Tho I don't know if the reason was guilt exactly.

 

We discussed it and she agreed that his staying and his reason (basically wanting to fix her so she'd be okay before he supposedly left) were typical of the thought process of an abuse victim. And it showed he wasn't mentally healthy enough to have a stable relationship. That he's likely to just keep repeating the cycle of abuse and decide not to divorce after all.

 

I think being involved in an affair can make the mental and emotional situation worse for a person who's being abused. Because they'll feel guilt about what their doing to their spouse which could give them reason to feel like they deserve the abuse they're getting. Also the AP is naturally and justifiably going to feel emotionally distraught that the person they love is with someone else. A person with a good heart who's self esteem has been damaged by abuse is likely to internalize that and feel even worse about themselves, again like they deserve the abuse. The AP wants to help and be supportive of the abused person, but I think are more likely to add to the damage of the spouse's abuse. Not getting involved and staying emotionally distant enough not to take that person's struggle's personally to where you get angry with them for not leaving or for not being there for you is difficult but a better type of support.

Edited June 2, 2014 by The Way I Am

[goodyblue]

My exH was extremely abusive. I never considered cheating as an excuse for HIS bad behavior.

 

Cheating would have said more about me than him.

 

Instead of cheating as a solution - I chose to divorce him after 20 years of M. THAT is a solution!

 

My conscience would never allow me to be proud of myself if I found my solution in cheating, talk about taking a bad situation and making it worse...

 

Wow.

 

I'm sorry that happened to you.

 

As much as we disagree, abuse is never okay.

 

Good on you for getting out.

[cocorico]

I think that this adds a whole different level of layers to an affair. Abuse can come in many forms. Emotional, verbal, psychological, physical. I have had a lot of contact with exMMs wife over the past almost year and I feel abused already. He never used the word abused, but the more I see of this the more I realize that he was and has been abused for probably the majority of his marriage. Not only that but we all know that when you try to leave an abusive person they usually become even more abusive in an attempt to keep that control that they have always had. And for men I'm sure that few would admit to being abused or tell many people about it if they were.

 

I honestly wonder how many affairs begin because a married person is afraid to leave their children with an abusive partner? Or afraid to escalate the abuse that they are already receiving?

 

How many of you APs were or are in an affair with an abused married person? And if you have been, does that alleviate the guilt that some feel that you are supposed to have? Have there been studies done on this type of thing?

 

My H never claimed he was abused by his xW, but what I have seen of her and heard of her behaviour (from the kids, his family, friends, etc) it's pretty obvious that that was what went down.

 

He knew she was broken - I think that was the original appeal; a drunken, damaged older woman begging him to save her from her "mistake" M appealed to his White Knight. With everyone advising him against getting involved, of course he then felt he had to see it through - especially when she added kids to the mix. And then he became clinically depressed and that limited his (perception of his) agency all the more.

 

As for guilt, it did not alleviate his - he felt that he had promised her decades ago that he would take care of her alone against the big bad world that could not understand her as he did, and would help her to heal - and of course he couldn't do that. Luckily his counsellor helped him get it all into perspective and make peace with ending the toxic R and finding healthy love, and helped him to see it as necessary in freeing himself and the kids from the toxic trap.

[waterwoman]

H's OW was in an abusive marriage. Not physically abusive to her but he was very controlling and possessive. I think she was/is very unhappy. He is quite well known in the smallish town we live in as a bit of thug and he has done time for GBH.

 

Which begs the question.... why the heck would she or H take such a risk with such an appalling man? I was furious with H when I understood just what a risk he was potentially calling down on our family - if the H took it into his head to come and 'have a word' with H on our doorstep! yes I am a coward.

 

My feeling about the affair was that OW really wanted rescuing from her life - don't blame her - and H was going to be the means to that end. But she was too scared to take the plunge and H never intended to leave me. So it was a sort of stalemate.

[AmyBamy]

My exMM never claimed to be abused. I am deducing from what I have seen that he has been abused by his soon to be ex wife. He doesn't recognize it as abuse although anyone outside of the situation can see that it is. My guess is that many WS especially men would NOT admit to being abused. Men typically put up with it because they aren't supposed to be able to be abused by women. It's embarrassing to them so they don't talk about it or acknowledge it.

 

This isn't a discussion about why some of you think that WSs should NOT have an affair, it's a discussion about APs who have been in relationships with WSs that ARE or HAVE been abused. I would like to hear about those situations please and thanks.

[carhill]

Having had the opportunity to interact independently with my exW as well as observe us, I recall on a couple of occasions my AP mentioning to me that she (exW) was 'mean', not to her (AP) but rather to me. TBH, I didn't really notice the 'mean' part but then again perhaps I was used to it and tuned it out. All I knew was the neglect.

 

The problem I have with making value judgments about another's marriage is that it's impossible as an AP (BTDT as an OM long ago) to know what is in the minds of others or know in any verifiable way what goes on behind closed doors, save for official public records like criminal prosecutions, restraining orders, protective orders, etc, etc. Other than that, it's he-said, she-said and the truth is generally nowhere near either of the polar opposites.

 

The interesting twist in my story is that the same AP was the MW who decades ago recounted the abuse (physical and emotional) in her marriage and I *believed* her without any independent verification. That was my mistake as a young man inexperienced in the ways of some women. So, this time around, everything was verifiable. She could listen, she could watch and she could form her own opinions without any 'spin' by me. Verify.

 

All of this is water long under the bridge but the lessons learned were valuable so I offer the experience in that vein. The relationships with women and affairs period of my life has been over for some years now.

[goodyblue]

My guy never said he was abused either. I don't think he realized how abusive the relationship was until he was out of it and could clearly see what was happening.

[goodyblue]

Having had the opportunity to interact independently with my exW as well as observe us, I recall on a couple of occasions my AP mentioning to me that she (exW) was 'mean', not to her (AP) but rather to me. TBH, I didn't really notice the 'mean' part but then again perhaps I was used to it and tuned it out. All I knew was the neglect.

 

The problem I have with making value judgments about another's marriage is that it's impossible as an AP (BTDT as an OM long ago) to know what is in the minds of others or know in any verifiable way what goes on behind closed doors, save for official public records like criminal prosecutions, restraining orders, protective orders, etc, etc. Other than that, it's he-said, she-said and the truth is generally nowhere near either of the polar opposites.

 

The interesting twist in my story is that the same AP was the MW who decades ago recounted the abuse (physical and emotional) in her marriage and I *believed* her without any independent verification. That was my mistake as a young man inexperienced in the ways of some women. So, this time around, everything was verifiable. She could listen, she could watch and she could form her own opinions without any 'spin' by me. Verify.

 

All of this is water long under the bridge but the lessons learned were valuable so I offer the experience in that vein. The relationships with women and affairs period of my life has been over for some years now.

 

I find this entire post fascinating. Thank you for sharing.

[goodyblue]

Everclear said it best "You believe what you want to believe".

Edited June 4, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[AmyBamy]

That's quite a claim. Can you please provide evidence for that.

 

I was thinking the same thing. I have NEVER heard a man claim to be abused by a woman. They generally don't consider it abuse in my experience and seem pretty hesitant to call it abuse even when it is. They as a gender generally don't want to be seen as weak and seem to avoid labeling the mistreatment they suffer through as abuse, especially if it is from a woman, and especially within their marriage.

 

I think that saying that they claim to be abused is really far fetched and seems to have an agenda and not the agenda of providing factual information.

[AmyBamy]

Everclear said it best "You believe what you want to believe".

 

Right. Infidelity often comes after years of abuse by the BS I think. And I've yet to see anyone so afraid of their abuser that they don't try to get out of the situation at some point in some way. Even if it's just a little break, it is still a break and a minute for them to breathe.

 

When I was married I was abusive to my ex husband. I didn't realize it at the time but as time went by and I grew as a person and learned more about communication and relationships I can see how I was abusive. No, I wasn't physically beating him up or anything but I certainly was verbally abusive to him and emotionally. Not intentionally but I didn't know any better and I don't know that I would have learned about all of that had he and I not divorced. I'd probably still be there feeling justified in how I treated him and pshing anyone around me who suggested I was abusive towards him. I think that happens with a lot of people, especially women, who believe that they aren't able to actually abuse a man.

 

I see it a lot. Women blowing off the lack of sex, making fun of men who feel emotionally neglected or abused as if it's sissy of them to have feelings and emotional needs, to seek it outside of the marriage when they do. Acting as if men's feelings don't matter as much as women's feelings do especially within a relationship. Suggesting that women are to be catered to while men are to be used for security and expected to "do the right thing" and stay married to an abusive/neglectful woman.

 

It is sad. Sad for the men and sad for the rest of us women who take equality seriously and pull our own weight in a relationship. It makes men hesitant to have relationships with women and definitely hesitant to marry. Where does the old joke of ball and chain come from? And women having to coerce men into marriage? THere is no wonder why it is that way considering so many women still follow these standards. They land the man and stop doing much of anything. They try to claim that they are too busy being moms and housewives to actually participate in the relationship. If that's how it goes, why would any man ever get married? I wouldn't if I was a man. Who would willingly sign up for that? These women convince them that they are different, that they DO have a high sex drive, that it won't happen to them - vow to them, and then move the goalposts after they get the ring on their finger.

 

Like I said, abuse comes in many forms. Just because some people won't admit that they are abusive to their WS doesn't make it not true. I'm pretty sure I've read here somewhere that if someone feels abused then they are/were abused. Again with the double standards. A BS can be abused by infidelity, but the WS can't be abused by the 20 years of abuse that led up to that infidelity? What a mental jump that one is.

Edited June 2, 2014 by AmyBamy

[Sub]

Also…waywards nearly always claim to be abused.

I think there's some truth to your post, but I also think we're being a little liberal with the term "abuse". I'm sure there are a good number of WS's who make the claim, and it can be valid at times. But I think the term more commonly used is "neglect". We can debate the merits of that as well, but they're two different things, IMO.

[KathyM]

That is not what this discussion is about. This discussion is about WSs who were abused and had affairs. Thanks.

Then my response is that no WSs who were in affairs which I have been privy to had complained that they were being abused by their spouse/partner, except in the case of revenge affairs where the spouse first betrayed them. And I was an outside party not involved in the affair triangle, but know the situation of these people. Of course, the WSs likely told their AP that they were abused in order to garner sympathy and get the AP to engage in the affair. Or if the abuse was more of an emotional or verbal variety, then likely both spouses were engaging in some negative behavior towards each other, but the WS won't tell the AP about his role in the negative marital dynamic. His goal is to play the victim of a tyrannical spouse who he/she needs to be rescued from. I'm sure some affairs do have the situation where the WS is seeking solace from an abusive partner and that is how they justify the affair to themselves and their AP, but that would likely be the exception rather than the rule. More likely it is either both spouses that are being nasty to each other and one decides to take the route of an affair rather than deal with the problem, or the WS exaggerates the problems in the interactions with their spouse in order to justify the affair to his AP and to himself. Or the WS just feels entitled to an affair and claims abuse where there wasn't any on the part of the BS.

[goodyblue]

Psht. But dontcha know, Amy??? If you cheat, you are the devil and anything your spouse did is JUST FINE. It didn't lead to you checking out Pretty sad, isn't it?

Right. Infidelity often comes after years of abuse by the BS I think. And I've yet to see anyone so afraid of their abuser that they don't try to get out of the situation at some point in some way. Even if it's just a little break, it is still a break and a minute for them to breathe.

 

When I was married I was abusive to my ex husband. I didn't realize it at the time but as time went by and I grew as a person and learned more about communication and relationships I can see how I was abusive. No, I wasn't physically beating him up or anything but I certainly was verbally abusive to him and emotionally. Not intentionally but I didn't know any better and I don't know that I would have learned about all of that had he and I not divorced. I'd probably still be there feeling justified in how I treated him and pshing anyone around me who suggested I was abusive towards him. I think that happens with a lot of people, especially women, who believe that they aren't able to actually abuse a man.

 

I see it a lot. Women blowing off the lack of sex, making fun of men who feel emotionally neglected or abused as if it's sissy of them to have feelings and emotional needs, to seek it outside of the marriage when they do. Acting as if men's feelings don't matter as much as women's feelings do especially within a relationship. Suggesting that women are to be catered to while men are to be used for security and expected to "do the right thing" and stay married to an abusive/neglectful woman.

 

It is sad. Sad for the men and sad for the rest of us women who take equality seriously and pull our own weight in a relationship. It makes men hesitant to have relationships with women and definitely hesitant to marry. Where does the old joke of ball and chain come from? And women having to coerce men into marriage? THere is no wonder why it is that way considering so many women still follow these standards. They land the man and stop doing much of anything. They try to claim that they are too busy being moms and housewives to actually participate in the relationship. If that's how it goes, why would any man ever get married? I wouldn't if I was a man. Who would willingly sign up for that? These women convince them that they are different, that they DO have a high sex drive, that it won't happen to them - vow to them, and then move the goalposts after they get the ring on their finger.

 

Like I said, abuse comes in many forms. Just because some people won't admit that they are abusive to their WS doesn't make it not true. I'm pretty sure I've read here somewhere that if someone feels abused then they are/were abused. Again with the double standards. A BS can be abused by infidelity, but the WS can't be abused by the 20 years of abuse that led up to that infidelity? What a mental jump that one is.

[goodyblue]

Psht. But dontcha know, Amy??? If you cheat, you are the devil and anything your spouse did is JUST FINE. It didn't lead to you checking out Pretty sad, isn't it?

I just love it when BS's say "nothing I did made them cheat".

 

They are right.

 

What they don't follow up with is "gee, my person was MISERABLE, and I was PART OF THAT". Never going to hear that.

[Popsicle]

I'm not quick to dish out that label "abused", so no, I don't think my MM is/was abused. Now neglected? Yes, but his wife probably is neglected by him too, tbh.

[Speakingofwhich]

I'm not quick to dish out that label "abused", so no, I don't think my MM is/was abused. Now neglected? Yes, but his wife probably is neglected by him too, tbh.

 

 

I wonder if extreme neglect can qualify as abuse? My former MM never spoke of being abused and had only kind things (always) to say about his wife. (In fact, if he told me anything that could be slightly construed as negative he would have a hard time getting the words out of his mouth, hesitating and qualifying and telling me he didn't want me to think bad of her) But, he did admit to neglect (didn't use that word specifically just described what amounted to neglect) and imho the extent of the neglect was abusive.

 

He also admitted that his BW had told him he'd neglected her.

[Popsicle]

I wonder if extreme neglect can qualify as abuse? My former MM never spoke of being abused and had only kind things (always) to say about his wife. (In fact, if he told me anything that could be slightly construed as negative he would have a hard time getting the words out of his mouth, hesitating and qualifying and telling me he didn't want me to think bad of her) But, he did admit to neglect (didn't use that word specifically just described what amounted to neglect) and imho the extent of the neglect was abusive.

 

He also admitted that his BW had told him he'd neglected her.

 

Yep that sounds about right.

[violet1]

My exMM claimed that his wife had mental breakdowns and would throw things at him. He always said that he stays to protect his kids from her abusive ways. I don't know if it's true or not.

[Hope Shimmers]

I just love it when BS's say "nothing I did made them cheat".

 

They are right.

 

What they don't follow up with is "gee, my person was MISERABLE, and I was PART OF THAT". Never going to hear that.

 

You know, I think that these type of comments just escalate the rift that exists between the "OW/OM" and the "BS". I see your point in some cases, such as that with my ex-MM where he tried to talk to her many times about fixing their M and she flat out refused to live up to her responsibilities as a spouse (yes I know this as fact). These type of spouses choose to bury their head in the sand and not work on things when they KNOW their spouse is unhappy. Not the majority. Still not an excuse for having an affair, but at least I can start to understand it.

 

Really, is it fair to ask a spouse to take responsibility (if this is what you are saying, and I'm understanding you correctly) for his/her partner's A (I was PART OF THAT) when they had no indication that anything was wrong? How is one to work on something that they don't know is a problem? It's called being blindsided. What would happen if you found out tomorrow that your H was having an affair? Would you be responsible for his A? Never say never... blindsided. We can't control the behavior of others. People have affairs for all different kinds of reasons - some of them are happily married. Not all are miserable. Some are, but not all by any means.

 

That is just my opinion. As for the topic, I was in a long and extremely abusive marriage - physical and mental - but didn't cheat. Ex-MM could be said to be in an abusive marriage, if a spouse refusing to do basic things that are critical to a marriage is a definition of 'abuse'.

[goodyblue]

You know, I think that these type of comments just escalate the rift that exists between the "OW/OM" and the "BS". I see your point in some cases, such as that with my ex-MM where he tried to talk to her many times about fixing their M and she flat out refused to live up to her responsibilities as a spouse (yes I know this as fact). These type of spouses choose to bury their head in the sand and not work on things when they KNOW their spouse is unhappy. Not the majority. Still not an excuse for having an affair, but at least I can start to understand it.

 

Really, is it fair to ask a spouse to take responsibility (if this is what you are saying, and I'm understanding you correctly) for his/her partner's A (I was PART OF THAT) when they had no indication that anything was wrong? How is one to work on something that they don't know is a problem? It's called being blindsided. What would happen if you found out tomorrow that your H was having an affair? Would you be responsible for his A? Never say never... blindsided. We can't control the behavior of others. People have affairs for all different kinds of reasons - some of them are happily married. Not all are miserable. Some are, but not all by any means.

 

That is just my opinion. As for the topic, I was in a long and extremely abusive marriage - physical and mental - but didn't cheat. Ex-MM could be said to be in an abusive marriage, if a spouse refusing to do basic things that are critical to a marriage is a definition of 'abuse'.

 

I very much respect your opinion. I don't agree anyone is blindsided. Perhaps they are blindsided by the affair, but the know dang good and well things are not okay in the relationship.

 

Again, I appreciate your opinion. It just differs from mine, I know that when things went south in my R it was obvious. I felt it.

[jwi71]

Right. Infidelity often comes after years of abuse by the BS I think.

 

Interesting perspective.

I have to ask - WHO gets to define the abuse? The WS or the BS?

And in general - WHAT is abuse? What qualifies as "abuse"?

 

And I've yet to see anyone so afraid of their abuser that they don't try to get out of the situation at some point in some way. Even if it's just a little break, it is still a break and a minute for them to breathe.

 

Those individuals are not posting here - and yes amybamy, there ARE people THAT abused.

 

Like I said, abuse comes in many forms. Just because some people won't admit that they are abusive to their WS doesn't make it not true. I'm pretty sure I've read here somewhere that if someone feels abused then they are/were abused. Again with the double standards. A BS can be abused by infidelity, but the WS can't be abused by the 20 years of abuse that led up to that infidelity? What a mental jump that one is.

 

If one doesn't identify it as abuse was it truly abuse?

And can one claim that abuse "makes it alright to cheat" if the WS 1) never self identifies as abused 2) or, if subsequently DOES self identifies as abused - had no knowledge of such at the time of cheating?

 

In short, how can one say abuse justifies/ameliorates an A if the one cheating never claims abuse ? (yet cheats anyway)

 

What I have found is the two person in the M afflicted by infidelity is the WS FAILS to communicate to the BS in reasonably clear and readily understand verbiage the breadth and depth of unmet needs. That is NOT always the case - it does, and I would characterize it as uncommon - then I would still say that circumstance does not justify an A. I can think of scarce few reasons in which an A is acceptable - and this does not qualify.