Any other wayward wives here?

[atreides]

My husband is not boring in bed, or the car, or the janitor's closet:o. We do a lot of different things. More than MM and I. There are things I do with my H that I will not do with MM and I plan to keep it that way. My husband doesn't want to add another person to our sex life. MM and I have talked about doing a couple threesomes but that would bring to much risk and require too much planning. As to insulting I lifestyle I got a chuckle from that. Lifestyles don't get insulted. People have such strange ideas. I am not in an open marriage. I am cheating on my husband.

 

Lol, quite a crass remark, what you missed by lifestyle is that you “wanted” open, which has dynamics quite opposite of what you did as a result because you could not have it. In other words you made it a tool, (the insult) which sought only purpose in not “sharing” which is the point of it but for you your needs alone. It is a theme that rings throughout your responses.

 

 

 

No, I'm not lying to myself. I know my feelings on the matter quite clearly and H is my first choice every time. There are people that can enjoy sex without comparing it to another person or even another time with the same person.

 

You missed the point, it was about your sexual satiation, not comparison. Interesting you chose to use “compare”

 

 

I love my husband very much but I have not felt the need to share that here. My posts are about my A and not my marriage.

 

No, you chose to bring husband into this, you gave context as to open relationships, threesomes, how you enjoyed his company but in the same remark as in describing the context to your husband by omission or your “so called” definition of “love” used to describe your feelings about sex. Now we can’t bottle up all that back up for the context provided. You said it yourself by separating the person form the affair as in what you would miss more after all to which would be your default choice in the case of its ending.

 

 

The threesome request is because of course ideally my A would not be a secret. We would both be allowed to enjoy sex with others.

 

You mean your “open relationship” request of which again you make agreed mutual agreements which can still be “cheated.”

 

 

 

 

Why? I love my husband and I love my life with him. It is my first choice and that is why I don't go find someone else. Why "set him free" when he is happy with the life he has?

Is happiness what can be shown in the mirror or what is actually in front of it? You go on about breaking only one vow, forget vows as you previously marginalized with your “till death” statement. No, you break what your husband believes you to be, why he mutually reciprocates his love. But then again, it is all about a process and the tools by which you can use to seek what you perceive yourself to feel and need.

 

i understand you will not understand it. The A isn't a secret to protect it but to protect my H

 

Understanding? The A is indeed not a secret to protect it in of itself, it is also not a secret to protect your H, it is a secret to protect the very reason why you chose to have an A, that is its core. You could not logically have it any other way or you contradict the reason for having an A in the first place.

 

I see no point to say anything more than this: As for your Husband he is living in Plato’s Allegory of the Cave for now, but as Socrates warns those behind the fire must also return to the prisoners in the cave, but that’s ok, you have accepted its fate without its understanding. While you hide behind “lack of conveying emotion” to your well-articulated posts, you choose to live without regret but forget why it exists as for its use in learning about who we are. It is the very reason why it is not enough for you to hold value of why your husband reciprocates his love by having faith in you because the “shadows on the cave’s wall” are at play.

Edited June 5, 2014 by atreides

[Sub]

The only potential drama is MM's W. I know my husband well enough to know he won't cause drama. He is smarter than that and stronger.

 

All I can say is: Don't take that intelligence and strength for granted.

[DKT3]

All I can say is: Don't take that intelligence and strength for granted.

 

Very true, she may soon be on the wrong side of those things.

[Got it]

Your affair was much different than mine as you were done with your marriage but thank you for sharing. There is always a chance of discovery but I wouldn't say if you don't change your behavior the risk is greater. I would say it is still the same with always the chance there.

 

Not true. The more interaction, the more connection, the more evidence, the better chance of exposure. It is just playing the odds. Sure you can mitigate them but all it takes is one slip up to start the ball rolling.

 

Simple statistics.

[Got it]

I didn't decide in one day to cheat. It was much more gradual than that. Now that I have what is done is done. I see my husband happy and I am happy so as of today I see no need to change that. The only potential drama is MM's W. I know my husband well enough to know he won't cause drama. He is smarter than that and stronger. I do agree with the last part but as I said I am a poor writer. I am not eloquent and do not convey emotion well in the written word. If you met me in person you would be very surprised.

 

I think we can assume certain things but doesn't mean it always plays out like that. My husband was shocked by his ex wife's reaction as she had cheated and shown little remorse when he found out. Basically told him "it is over, move on". So figured they had similar understanding why they were in the current marriage that they were. So thought when he planned to tell her while she may not like it, would understand and be on the same page about divorce.

 

I warned him otherwise but he knew her better. But, in reality, that wasn't the case and she was not on the same page with him. Since he never exposed her A, got others involved, tell the kids, etc. he felt the same. When she went for a "scorched earth" tactic he was utterly shocked that the rules changed.

 

I am not saying you are wrong, I am just telling you that there are no guarantees especially with emotional matters. I am cautioning you from being too certain in your control/knowledge to underestimate potential outcomes/consequences.

[Realist3]

Not true. The more interaction, the more connection, the more evidence, the better chance of exposure. It is just playing the odds. Sure you can mitigate them but all it takes is one slip up to start the ball rolling.

 

Simple statistics.

 

Actually, the chance of getting caught is a constant. The odds are the same each time. Buying more lottery tickets does not increase your chance of winning. Same way here. What does increase the odds of getting caught is human error, mainly sloppiness, and complacency. So, in that you are correct, the more interaction, connection, etc., increases the chance for mistakes. Mitigation of mistakes is key.

[lovinDKT3]

Actually, the chance of getting caught is a constant. The odds are the same each time. Buying more lottery tickets does not increase your chance of winning. Same way here. What does increase the odds of getting caught is human error, mainly sloppiness, and complacency. So, in that you are correct, the more interaction, connection, etc., increases the chance for mistakes. Mitigation of mistakes is key.

 

I have to agree with GOT IT. And yes buy more tickets increase your odds of winning. Having more number combinations mean a better chance of winning.

 

The more meetings with the AP the more likely they will be found out because the more chances for a mistake, also the odds go up for a fluke discovery.

[Owl]

If I get caught I don't know if I will think it was "worth" it or not. It won't matter and that doesn't matter now. I have done what I have done and I cannot change it. Living a life full of regrets is no way to live. People become so bogged down by things they can't change (the past) or control (other people's behavior). I hope that I won't lose my husband. I hope that he wants me enough to forgive me and accept me for who I am. But I will understand if he doesn't.

 

Dezzi...do you CARE that what you're doing is very likely to result in some serious emotional torment/devestation for your husband?

 

Do you CARE about how you're likely to hurt him...at all?

 

Or does that simply not matter at all to you?

 

I've gotta say...from reading your posts...it sure sounds to me like your H deserves better.

[Realist3]

I have to agree with GOT IT. And yes buy more tickets increase your odds of winning. Having more number combinations mean a better chance of winning.

 

The more meetings with the AP the more likely they will be found out because the more chances for a mistake, also the odds go up for a fluke discovery.

 

 

No, buying more tickets does not increase your odds. The odds are the same for each ticket. You are just playing the same odds numerous times.

 

And like I mentioned the odds for a particular encounter being discovered is the same as the last one. I have had hundreds if not thousands of meeting with my AP. The odds of getting caught the next time are exactly the same as they were the first time. There is no exponential growth in odds. The POTENTIAL for a mistake is the same each time.

[lovinDKT3]

No, buying more tickets does not increase your odds. The odds are the same for each ticket. You are just playing the same odds numerous times.

 

And like I mentioned the odds for a particular encounter being discovered is the same as the last one. I have had hundreds if not thousands of meeting with my AP. The odds of getting caught the next time are exactly the same as they were the first time. There is no exponential growth in odds. The POTENTIAL for a mistake is the same each time.

 

Your logic is flawed. Buying 10 tickets doesn't increase the odds of each ticket being the winner but it increases your odds of winning because your playing more tickets.

 

Meeting up with your AP thousands of time increases the chance you will get caught because there are more times to get caught. One day your numbers up.

 

No need in debating this end T/J on my part. Sorry OP

[Sub]

And like I mentioned the odds for a particular encounter being discovered is the same as the last one. .

 

Assuming all the encounters are the same, made up of the same variables, this could be true. But change one of the variables, and I would disagree. This is an extreme example, but: the odds of someone catching wind are much greater if they hook-up in the hotel connected to the bar they hang out at with co-workers vs. a hotel miles away.

[Realist3]

Your logic is flawed. Buying 10 tickets doesn't increase the odds of each ticket being the winner but it increases your odds of winning because your playing more tickets.

 

Meeting up with your AP thousands of time increases the chance you will get caught because there are more times to get caught. One day your numbers up.

 

No need in debating this end T/J on my part. Sorry OP

 

You should read up on it. You are incorrect. Let's change it off of the lottery to make it a little clearer.

 

We have statistics that show the odds of getting killed in a car crash on any given car trip. Whether you drive once a day or 20 times a day your odds are the same for each and every trip. My odds have not inherently increased on the 20th trip as they were on the 1st. It is not building up of odds.

 

In the affair realm, my MW is not more likely to get caught because of her hundreds of past meetings. Each one is the same.

[Realist3]

Assuming all the encounters are the same, made up of the same variables, this could be true. But change one of the variables, and I would disagree. This is an extreme example, but: the odds of someone catching wind are much greater if they hook-up in the hotel connected to the bar they hang out at with co-workers vs. a hotel miles away.

 

Of course. If your aim is to get struck by lightning you can stand on top of your roof with a lightning rod during a storm and your odds will be greatly increased over the norm. Most people in affairs are doing just the opposite.

[harrybrown]

As the pain everyday for the last 3 and 1/2 years since finding out about my wife's A, I feel for your H.

 

Please try to not have interaction between your H and your OM.

 

Do not have the OM over to your house. Do not have the OM around your H at parties or events.

 

Your OM knows and your H does not. You do not have any respect of caring for your H, but at least do not have your OM around your H. Do not rub the A in your H's face by having any contact between the two of them and do not have the OM or the OM's family around your house.

 

At least do that much for your H. Make sure that the OM does not get to rub the A into your H's face. That is really cruel.

 

if you do that, just divorce your H. He will never get over that pain. He will feel rejected and his self-confidence will take a huge blow.

 

At least do not be that selfish. He will be in agony for years.

[Owl]

Of course. If your aim is to get struck by lightning you can stand on top of your roof with a lightning rod during a storm and your odds will be greatly increased over the norm. Most people in affairs are doing just the opposite.

 

Disagree. Every time they participate in an act of betrayal to their spouse...send that risque message, take time from their schedule to be with their partner, go someplace with their AP...it's just like standing on the rooftop grasping the lightning rod. Of course, they can wear rubber-soled boots and hope that might reduce those odds by just a little bit...

 

And your statistical analysis is off. You're right...the odds of discovery of each individual event is likely something of a constant...but the greater frequency of events increases the overall opportunities to be caught...therefore increasing the overall statistical probability of discovery. Taking practical measures to avoid discovery may somewhat reduce the odds for each individual event...but if there are a high number of events, isn't likely to greatly impact the overall probability of discovery.

 

And...the only way to reduce those odds statistically to zero would be to have zero events/opportunities for discovery...i.e...end the affair.

[Realist3]

Disagree. Every time they participate in an act of betrayal to their spouse...send that risque message, take time from their schedule to be with their partner, go someplace with their AP...it's just like standing on the rooftop grasping the lightning rod. Of course, they can wear rubber-soled boots and hope that might reduce those odds by just a little bit...

 

And your statistical analysis is off. You're right...the odds of discovery of each individual event is likely something of a constant...but the greater frequency of events increases the overall opportunities to be caught...therefore increasing the overall statistical probability of discovery. Taking practical measures to avoid discovery may somewhat reduce the odds for each individual event...but if there are a high number of events, isn't likely to greatly impact the overall probability of discovery.

 

And...the only way to reduce those odds statistically to zero would be to have zero events/opportunities for discovery...i.e...end the affair.

 

 

I get your point, and it was well stated. I think we both understand each other's point. And yes, it is certainly possible to take it to zero.

 

I admitted your premise a few posts ago. Each occasion presents a new possibility for discovery. A possibility for mistakes. Each time you do something you are increasing the possibility, but not the probability.

[atreides]

@Owl, @Loving, @Realist, @harrybrown and others on the odds theme,

 

The OP already made it clear, she lives with no regret, she has accepted her fate without its understanding. She clearly outlined what she plans to do in the event of getting caught. To me that was the most tragic as if to advertise and complete her "brochure" as the first post read like one, with how she pulls her affair off with her fake Facebook accounts. All nice and neat in her mind.... with the theme presented, is that "its not enough":

not enough risk to stop or have prevented the A

not enough "guilt" that is life affecting < her words

not enough value in herself for what her husband has faith in his wife being to him.

not enough as in "fantastic sex" < her words; to quench her sexual satiation with her husband

 

so as with the "odds" argument, i think the OP made it clear indirectly that they are not really pertinent to her "lifestyle" other than what was clearly outlined, having "safe sex"

Edited June 6, 2014 by atreides

[Charlie Harper]

Back to topic, because the moral police squad is derailing the thread.

 

If you play it cool, and don't lose your nerves/sight/purpose, the A will never be discovered. Tons of A go unnoticed by a lot of people and those relationships, even some that go for years and years are never known and taken to the tomb by the perpetrators.

 

If both AP, are calculating, cold and keep control, there is almost no chance of being discovered, most of the time the guilt and the emotions get in the way and AP make mistakes, and are Discovered.

 

The OP has stated she is in control, knows her options, and has a clear idea that this might end her M and devastate her H, she is playing it and risking, but as a person who used to be in that situation I understand her perfectly, the A did start unexpectedly and has been kept under control...

 

Whatever the outcome hope is worth it..mine sure was.

[Sub]

Back to topic, because the moral police squad is derailing the thread.

 

If you play it cool, and don't lose your nerves/sight/purpose, the A will never be discovered. Tons of A go unnoticed by a lot of people and those relationships, even some that go for years and years are never known and taken to the tomb by the perpetrators.

 

If both AP, are calculating, cold and keep control, there is almost no chance of being discovered, most of the time the guilt and the emotions get in the way and AP make mistakes, and are Discovered.

 

The OP has stated she is in control, knows her options, and has a clear idea that this might end her M and devastate her H, she is playing it and risking, but as a person who used to be in that situation I understand her perfectly, the A did start unexpectedly and has been kept under control...

 

Whatever the outcome hope is worth it..mine sure was.

 

I almost can't tell if you're being sarcastic or trying some reverse psychology.

Terms like "calculating"...."cold"...."perpetrators"..."devastate her H"....It appears you're trying to be supportive, but the choice of terms is curious.

[Realist3]

I almost can't tell if you're being sarcastic or trying some reverse psychology.

Terms like "calculating"...."cold"...."perpetrators"..."devastate her H"....It appears you're trying to be supportive, but the choice of terms is curious.

 

 

Yes, Sub, he could use some work on his sarcasm.

[Buckeye2]

I think we can assume certain things but doesn't mean it always plays out like that. My husband was shocked by his ex wife's reaction as she had cheated and shown little remorse when he found out. Basically told him "it is over, move on".

 

So he figured they had similar understanding why they were in the current marriage that they were. So thought when he planned to tell her while she may not like it, would understand and be on the same page about divorce.

 

Since he never exposed her A, got others involved, tell the kids, etc. he felt the same.

 

When she went for a "scorched earth" tactic he was utterly shocked that the rules changed.

 

Your husband’s ex-wife never paid a price for her cheating. They stayed married and no one was told. That their marriage was dead was merely her excuse for her affair.

 

My affair "is over, move on" with our marriage. She got to keep all the advantages of marriage.

 

Your husband then had an affair but it wasn't over, he wanted a divorce. His crime wasn’t his affair but the divorce.

 

She felt secure that he would never leave her and felt betrayed when he did.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Buckeye2

[jbelle6]

You should read up on it. You are incorrect. Let's change it off of the lottery to make it a little clearer.

 

We have statistics that show the odds of getting killed in a car crash on any given car trip. Whether you drive once a day or 20 times a day your odds are the same for each and every trip. My odds have not inherently increased on the 20th trip as they were on the 1st. It is not building up of odds.

 

In the affair realm, my MW is not more likely to get caught because of her hundreds of past meetings. Each one is the same.

 

 

 

 

Using the lottery as an example is maybe not the best since the numbers are huge. Lets use smaller numbers eg. 10 to 1 ODDS, if I buy one ticket, the ODDS of me winning are 10/1, CHANCE of me winning is 9.09 . If I buy two tickets the ODDS of me winning are 10/2, CHANCE of me winning is 16.67. Now in lottery ODDS, the numbers are so large that multiple tickets do not increase the PROBABILITY enough for it to be worth buying multiples really, unless you could afford a HUGE chunk. But your CHANCES and PROBABILITY of winning go up with each ticket. The ODDS never change, the 10 stays, but if you buy more tickets, the CHANCE and PROBABILITY of you winning increases. (move decimals to the left by 2 on the chance figures for probability)

 

 

 

How does this relate to the affair? More times one meets their lover, the higher the probability/chances of one getting caught. Odds never change, but the more times you play, probability/chance DEFINITELY goes up. So ya, one night tryst is going to have a lower probability of getting caught than months/years long affairs.

 

 

 

To OP, don't be so sure he won't find out, and with both of you being successful with no children means him breaking it off with no spouse or children to support after might be a losing game for you.

It would be quite easy for him to cut ties.

Edited June 7, 2014 by jbelle6

[Hope Shimmers]

You should read up on it. You are incorrect. Let's change it off of the lottery to make it a little clearer.

 

We have statistics that show the odds of getting killed in a car crash on any given car trip. Whether you drive once a day or 20 times a day your odds are the same for each and every trip. My odds have not inherently increased on the 20th trip as they were on the 1st. It is not building up of odds.

 

In the affair realm, my MW is not more likely to get caught because of her hundreds of past meetings. Each one is the same.

 

Realist... I've tried convincing others of this mathematically but have failed.

 

Realist is correct.

 

Let's try a much more simplistic example.

 

If you have 3 kids and they are all boys and you really want a daughter, some people think you have a better chance of having a daughter since you already have 3 boys. NOT so. You have EXACTLY the same chance the fourth time of conceiving a daughter or a son as you did the first three times.

 

However, if you look back on it after the fact and if you have had 4 sons, you can do the statistics on the odds for having 4 sons - if you look at it as a group instead of an individual situation, the stats are different.

 

The difference is that you are talking about discrete situations in terms of statistics. Nothing that happened in the past has any statistical impact on what might happen in the future.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Hope Shimmers

[jbelle6]

Realist... I've tried convincing others of this mathematically but have failed.

 

Realist is correct.

 

Let's try a much more simplistic example.

 

If you have 3 kids and they are all boys and you really want a daughter, some people think you have a better chance of having a daughter since you already have 3 boys. NOT so. You have EXACTLY the same chance the fourth time of conceiving a daughter or a son as you did the first three times.

 

However, if you look back on it after the fact and if you have had 4 sons, you can do the statistics on the odds for having 4 sons - if you look at it as a group instead of an individual situation, the stats are different.

 

The difference is that you are talking about discrete situations in terms of statistics. Nothing that happened in the past has any statistical impact on what might happen in the future.

 

 

You are using a google example so I am not sure if you actually understand the concept or are just copy pasting. The odds don't change, probability does. Sure, someone could have 4 boys. That is not probable though.

 

Each time I flip a coin it's a 50/50 odds I get heads or tails, that does not change. But, if I flip a coin 20 times, it's not probable I will hit heads each time (sure it could happen, not probable though).

 

You all are applying odds and ignoring probability.

Edited June 7, 2014 by jbelle6

[jbelle6]

Realist... I've tried convincing others of this mathematically but have failed.

 

Realist is correct.

 

Let's try a much more simplistic example.

 

If you have 3 kids and they are all boys and you really want a daughter, some people think you have a better chance of having a daughter since you already have 3 boys. NOT so. You have EXACTLY the same chance the fourth time of conceiving a daughter or a son as you did the first three times.

 

However, if you look back on it after the fact and if you have had 4 sons, you can do the statistics on the odds for having 4 sons - if you look at it as a group instead of an individual situation, the stats are different.

 

The difference is that you are talking about discrete situations in terms of statistics. Nothing that happened in the past has any statistical impact on what might happen in the future.

 

 

You are wrong, the odds of you having a girl don't increase, the chance does.

You need to look up the difference between chance and odds. This is not to say someone can't have 4 boys, just saying it's not probable. I really hate using this example anyways since there is more and more evidence that some men are predisposed to making Y sperm, some are predisposed to making equal parts X and Y sperm, and some are predisposed to X sperm, so the odds really actually are not equal.

 

You are screwing up Odds and chance, they are not interchangeable.

 

 

Flip a coin twenty times and see if you get heads each time. Maybe then you will know the difference between odds or probability. Sure, I bet once in a very blue moon someone will flip the coin 20 times and get heads each time, but that's not very probable now is it? Same as affairs, the more times you meet the more chances of getting caught/higher probability of getting caught. Pretty obvious. Not hard to sneak around once, a year long relationship will be harder to pull off.

 

2^3 = 8 possible outcomes from tossing a coin 3 times.

So, we have the following

 

P(no heads) = 1/8

P(1 head) = 3/8

P(2 heads) = 3/8

P(3 heads) = 1/8.

 

 

Here is the math. Have a good night. You will note that the probability of flipping the penny (p) 3 times in a row decrease. The odds of getting heads is still 50/50. Think of it as getting caught/not caught, the more times you do it, the odds don't change, the probability does.

 

Think if I bought 99.99999% of the lottery tickets that my chances/probability of winning won't go up? That's just silly. Sure the odds of each individual ticket don't change. I will put it in your terms, what is the probability that the Duggar lady would have had 20 odd kids of all the same sex? Sure odds are the same with each individual conception, but the probability of 20 in a row the same? It's not enough to just look at odds if it's not a one time thing.

 

I can show the math of what I am saying. It's not a matter of opinion.

Edited June 7, 2014 by jbelle6