Marriage boundaries with friends of opposite sex

[DELETE1234]

My wife and I could really benefit from outside opinions on this topic...

 

Question.

 

Q1: As a married person, should friendships with the opposite sex be treated the same as a friendship of the same sex?

 

Q2: Should a married person be able to do anything with a friend of the opposite sex as long as its not cheating, or is there lines of what is right and wrong? And if so what are those lines?

 

 

Our situation:

 

My wife is a stay at home Mom. She takes care of our 2 kids all day while I am at work. She doesn't have many people that she can talk to, and have adult conversation with. She was recently in search of a best friend, and posted to facebook looking for one. She says that she does not get along well with females and would rather have a male best friend. A guy that she went to high school with replied and they started talking. (In my opinion a lot, in hers its just friends talking) I work 12 hour days and am gone from work about 14 hours a day with commute. When I leave from work, most the time she will start to talk to him the moment I leave. Most days conversation (though text message) lasts until I get back home. My opinion is that this is a lot and makes me uncomfortable & jealous.

 

Q3: Is this too much or not and why? Am I letting jealousy get the best of me?

 

They have been talking for about a week now. Today my wife asked me how I would feel about the two of them going to the park together with our kids. I got upset and felt that this wasn't cool, she feels I should trust her and as long as she does not cheat, that there is nothing wrong with it. We have both screwed up in the past, me more so than her. She wants us to forget about the past and have a fresh start and be able to trust each other.

 

I want to be able to interact/friends with females without her giving me a hard time about it or worrying that it will upset her but I do not like the idea of her having guy friends.

 

 

Side note: I work on an ambulance for 12 hours a day and some days I work with a female. My wife doesn't give me a hard time about it and she trusts me.

[littleplanet]

My wife and I could really benefit from outside opinions on this topic...

 

Question.

 

Q1: As a married person, should friendships with the opposite sex be treated the same as a friendship of the same sex?

 

Q2: Should a married person be able to do anything with a friend of the opposite sex as long as its not cheating, or is there lines of what is right and wrong? And if so what are those lines?

 

 

Our situation:

 

My wife is a stay at home Mom. She takes care of our 2 kids all day while I am at work. She doesn't have many people that she can talk to, and have adult conversation with. She was recently in search of a best friend, and posted to facebook looking for one. She says that she does not get along well with females and would rather have a male best friend. A guy that she went to high school with replied and they started talking. (In my opinion a lot, in hers its just friends talking) I work 12 hour days and am gone from work about 14 hours a day with commute. When I leave from work, most the time she will start to talk to him the moment I leave. Most days conversation (though text message) lasts until I get back home. My opinion is that this is a lot and makes me uncomfortable & jealous.

 

Q3: Is this too much or not and why? Am I letting jealousy get the best of me?

 

They have been talking for about a week now. Today my wife asked me how I would feel about the two of them going to the park together with our kids. I got upset and felt that this wasn't cool, she feels I should trust her and as long as she does not cheat, that there is nothing wrong with it. We have both screwed up in the past, me more so than her. She wants us to forget about the past and have a fresh start and be able to trust each other.

 

I want to be able to interact/friends with females without her giving me a hard time about it or worrying that it will upset her but I do not like the idea of her having guy friends.

 

 

Side note: I work on an ambulance for 12 hours a day and some days I work with a female. My wife doesn't give me a hard time about it and she trusts me.

 

Nicely stated, OP.

 

For starters:

14 hours of texting seems a little over the top.

I'm puzzled as to how she's narrowed down her options.

No female friends, period? No other moms?

No other stay-at-homes who could maybe relate to her situation?

 

Next. Your co-worker, although female - is exactly that. Someone you work with. The majority of people I work most closely with happen to be women. (I work in a university library.) That's just the demographics of the industry.

You didn't specifically choose your working partner by gender. That's just how it worked out.

Whereas your wife has specifically chosen by gender.

 

I know lots of married women with whom I'm friends. Quite a few of them, I knew long before they got married. The friendship didn't end just because they got married.

However - I don't text them 14 hours a day.

(Actually, I don't text anybody - ever!!!!)

 

My spidey sense tells me that perhaps the reason you're more upset about the two of them going to the park with your kids....

is because the MIQ (man in question) has suddenly threatened to lift off the idiot screen (um....smart phone) and straight into 3-dimensional reality. Physical presence. Big difference.

 

I'd say at least your wife acknowledges your issues.

But irrational jealousy?

I don't think so.

I think you have a case.

 

To wit:

As you put it, she's shut-in, bored (craving adult conversation) and this way is her best way to solve it?

Unless this friend is God's most sublimely perfect creation to the ultimate most supremely extreme PLATONIC companion (and your wife happens to feel absolutely the same way to a fault) I might find it almost impossible to suppress a distinct concern of threat to the happy home.....if you catch my drift.

[aussietigerwolf]

I agree it seems excessive but... the bit that bothers me is "I want to be able to interact/friends with females without her giving me a hard time about it or worrying that it will upset her but I do not like the idea of her having guy friends."

 

so it's ok for you to have female friends but she is not allowed to have male friends?

[DELETE1234]

 

I know lots of married women with whom I'm friends. Quite a few of them, I knew long before they got married. The friendship didn't end just because they got married.

However - I don't text them 14 hours a day.

 

What changed, if anything?

[DELETE1234]

I agree it seems excessive but... the bit that bothers me is "I want to be able to interact/friends with females without her giving me a hard time about it or worrying that it will upset her but I do not like the idea of her having guy friends."

 

so it's ok for you to have female friends but she is not allowed to have male friends?

 

She has said that as well, I would be fine not having female friends. But when I interact with a female, at work or where ever I don't want a hard time. I guess what I'm looking for is where is the line of appropriate and not. How much is too much or is it a matter of trusting the other person....maybe a combination of all of it. I want things to be fair between us. Just don't know where the balance is.

[carhill]

1st impression: She wants to go to the park with him and your children and he hasn't met you? If that isn't a glowing hot red flag I don't know what is.....

[littleplanet]

What changed, if anything?

 

 

What changed?

Rules of engagement.

They were married women.

(in most cases, there had been no romantic involvement beforehand - between them and myself.)

 

But the real point is - this required an adult and sensible nod to the order of things.

I can recall a few conversations over the years - when their marriages hit bumps in the road...for example - but that resulted in friendly, caring consultation. Not hanky-panky. Most of these times, I wasn't single myself, anyway.

 

And trust is definitely on the right track.

It is, after all, a trust issue.

It just feels a little excessive.

 

I know if I were in your shoes, I'd be concerned.

One thing that would be helpful for you to know is this:

Are they attracted to each other?

(or really, are they completely comfortable as platonic friends?)

 

I have known quite a few women who are more comfortable with male friends than female - but none of them have ever been in the situation your wife is in.

 

Maybe the biggest red flag I see waving is just this:

You're gone long hours.

If she's lonely........someone else's company can play the devil's advocate.

 

Funny thing. When I grew up, most moms were stay-at-home. That's just how it was.

Many dads worked long hours.

I remember between grade 3 and grade 5 my dad was on the road a lot for work.

It was a conservative time.

My mom was like all the other moms. When dad was away, no other man darkened our door. Those were the rules.

Neighbors gossiped.

But then......what my mom craved was female companionship. Other mothers.

They flocked into our kitchen and yakked up a storm.

Of course - all those travelling dads were fine with that.

 

Times aren't so conservative now.

And women who stay at home with kids don't have to fit that same mold - content to watch soap operas all day long.

 

I think if I were in your situation I'd want to have a wee chat with the MIQ (man in question.) Suss him out, a little.

If he remains a virtual stranger to you, you'll wonder what he's about.

And if your wife objects to that - big red flag.

After all. If he's to be her friend in need......

then why wouldn't he be a 'family' friend?

[DELETE1234]

1st impression: She wants to go to the park with him and your children and he hasn't met you? If that isn't a glowing hot red flag I don't know what is.....

 

Would rules of engagement be different if it was a female friend and she went to the park with her and the kids? What specifically would make it a red flag? Hanging out with him before meeting him? Because the kids are there? Or just the situation ingeneral?

[DELETE1234]

I know if I were in your shoes, I'd be concerned.

One thing that would be helpful for you to know is this:

Are they attracted to each other?

(or really, are they completely comfortable as platonic friends?)

 

she is not attracted to him, and is looking for a platonic friend. I can't say the same about him. She asked him then sent me a screen shot and he says he isn't looking for more than a friend, and he loves the single life...I just don't buy it. Maybe it's just my insecurities.

 

Maybe the biggest red flag I see waving is just this:

You're gone long hours.

If she's lonely........someone else's company can play the devil's advocate.

This has been on my mind too, not much I can do to change that.

 

Funny thing. When I grew up, most moms were stay-at-home. That's just how it was.

Many dads worked long hours.

I remember between grade 3 and grade 5 my dad was on the road a lot for work.

It was a conservative time.

My mom was like all the other moms. When dad was away, no other man darkened our door. Those were the rules.

Neighbors gossiped.

But then......what my mom craved was female companionship. Other mothers.

They flocked into our kitchen and yakked up a storm.

Of course - all those travelling dads were fine with that.

 

Times aren't so conservative now.

And women who stay at home with kids don't have to fit that same mold - content to watch soap operas all day long.

 

I'm more of a conservative person myself and this is what I grew up around. My mother never took me to the playground with another man. This is before text messaging but my mom never spent hours on the phone with another man either. Actions are learned from parents most times. Also where we learn right from wrong. Personally it's hard to see something as right or ok when it is so unfamiliar and uncomfortable.

[DELETE1234]

She is going to end up having sex with this guy eventually. You are being manipulated into thinking you are overreacting so that she can cheat right under your nose, all the while making you feel like a jerk for being angry about it. You are being played.

 

I would have to disagree, I think it is truly a need for an adult to talk to and her intentions are platonic.

 

She isn't looking for a best friend, she's looking for some male attention. besides, who posts on Facebook that they need a new best friend anyway?

 

If you were a stay at home mom, how would you find a friend? I agree that the the means were odd, but what would be the alternative?

Edited June 4, 2014 by burke1989
Missing words

[littleplanet]

She is going to end up having sex with this guy eventually. You are being manipulated into thinking you are overreacting so that she can cheat right under your nose, all the while making you feel like a jerk for being angry about it. You are being played.

 

She isn't looking for a best friend, she's looking for some male attention. besides, who posts on Facebook that they need a new best friend anyway? A best friend isn't a job someone can apply for, they just are. My best friends are the people I know I can count on when things get rough. They are not old high school friends who decide they want to text me all day and hang out while my SO is at work.

 

 

This comment gets down to brass tacks. You really don't want to be thinking about this kind of thing all day long at work.

 

But maybe I can ask the obvious: how is it a married mother of two arrived at this stage of her life without friends?

 

Conventions usually dictate that a stay-at-home mom is not busy petitioning for the company of a single man while her husband happens to be working long hours earning what supports her and their children.

 

Her intentions are entirely platonic. That's fine. If his aren't clearly known, that's still an issue.

And what did they text about for the entire day?

 

Still - there are many different choices as to where someone can find adult feedback if that is what they crave. There are no relatives, in-laws to fit the bill?

That this is all narrowed down to one single guy - is just weird.

 

Another obvious question: who and what is this guy, that he somehow happens to have 14 available hours in the day to text her?

Is he jobless? Aimless? Focused on nothing in his life but her?

 

Your wife knows you're conventional/conservative/concerned.

Most hardworking men would be.

 

As mentioned by enigma..........a sudden conveniently manufactured best friend - is a bit suspect.

Granted, your wife is bored. Inundated with kids. Craving adult conversation.

But most married women in this situation do not solve this in the manner so described.

 

You're trying your best to be understanding, trusting

I think this pot needs to be taken off the fire before it boils over.

 

And if your wife uses the argument that your partner at work is female - that's a lame argument.

And being made to feel guilty because you're gone working for long hours - is bogus.

I would tell her......welcome to our brave new world where many couples trying to keep ahead of the bills both put in crazy hours just to make ends meet. Her young children are fortunate that she has the option of not having to put them in daycare.

 

A librarian I work with has a toddler who waits up past midnight for her to get home from work. She makes that arrangement on his behalf; otherwise he'd go a whole day without seeing her.

 

All this requires perspective (on your wife's part.)

Sure - her needs should be met, too. I just question her methods in going about filling them.

[kburke328]

The whole thing about the female coworkers is that he had 9 inappropriate relationships with 9 different female coworkers. I have to deal with him still seeing those women and still working with other females. He wants me to trust him and not give him a hard time about it so I don't. I suck it up and deal with it. I have been friends with another male for 3 years and text him for 14 hours every day also. I have also hung out with him multiple times one on one. He has also met our kids. This guy has also said multiple times that he likes me and would date me. But the OP doesn't see him as a threat...why is that? 1) Because he is in a wheelchair and 2) Because he knows I would never date him. But he sees any other guy as a threat even though he knows I would never do anything with them. Why is that? Because all guys want is sex. So if he is friends with a female wouldn't that mean that all he wants is sex with them?

[kburke328]

I am a stay at home mom because I have no other choice. I gave up working so that he could go back to school and meanwhile cheat on me while doing so. Even if I did work, my whole paycheck would go to daycare, just not worth it. I do have 1 female friend who I also text all day. So I text 3-4 different people all day including the OP. I don't just text the one male. The male does work and can text during work. The whole facebook best friend app status was a joke and people commented on it tagging other people and then messaged me saying so and so really could use a friend right now. I came to be a stay at home mom with 2 kids and no friends because of 1) the OP has made me get rid of them and 2) I just don't get along with people at all. So for me to find someone that I can get along with and not want to kill is a really big deal. I have tried making numerous female friends and I have cut out a bunch of them. Only 1 I have been able to tolerate for 3 years now but she doesn't drive and doesn't live very close so it makes it hard to hang out. I feel like everything is a double standard to the OP and it isn't fair.

[dichotomy]

Always interesting when spouse or partner suddenly appears in a thread. Always wonder about other side of things.

Edited June 4, 2014 by dichotomy

[carhill]

Would rules of engagement be different if it was a female friend and she went to the park with her and the kids? What specifically would make it a red flag? Hanging out with him before meeting him? Because the kids are there? Or just the situation ingeneral?

An unknown (to you) man hanging out with your children is the main one.

 

Friends are friends of the marriage so this man should necessarily wish to make your acquaintance. He hasn't done that. Wife hasn't said 'xxx would love to meet you. How about he join us for a little get together on your day off?'

 

Your situation, working with females, is a different dynamic altogether. You're working medical professionals doing a job.

 

However, that said, one of my exW's girlfriends was one of those females (female paramedic) and while her husband was deployed in the South Pacific she took up with a co-worker, had an affair, and she and H ended up divorcing a couple of months after his retirement (from the military) party. That was an uncomfortable conversation to have with him in the parking lot after what should have been a momentous evening.

 

No guarantees. I mention these things mainly because you have children. They should be protected from 'adult' stuff. Good luck!

[kburke328]

An unknown (to you) man hanging out with your children is the main one.

 

Friends are friends of the marriage so this man should necessarily wish to make your acquaintance. He hasn't done that. Wife hasn't said 'xxx would love to meet you. How about he join us for a little get together on your day off?'

 

Your situation, working with females, is a different dynamic altogether. You're working medical professionals doing a job.

 

However, that said, one of my exW's girlfriends was one of those females (female paramedic) and while her husband was deployed in the South Pacific she took up with a co-worker, had an affair, and she and H ended up divorcing a couple of months after his retirement (from the military) party. That was an uncomfortable conversation to have with him in the parking lot after what should have been a momentous evening.

 

No guarantees. I mention these things mainly because you have children. They should be protected from 'adult' stuff. Good luck!

We have set up a day for OP and the guy to meet. That was never the issue. That was established from the beginning. Even tho I have never met any of OP's female friends. But I shouldn't have to have my husband meet every person I am friends with. I don't need his permission to be friends with someone. He should trust my judgement and trust me. He doesn't want me being friends with his friends so why should I let him be friends with mine?

[DELETE1234]

Even tho I have never met any of OP's female friends.

 

Currently don't have any female friends.

[carhill]

The aspects of what friends are would be a valuable discussion to have with a MC. Most of my line of discussion here is a result of the work we did with a psychologist in MC with regards to what appropriate and inappropriate marital behaviors consist of and how to more effectively communicate each party's perspective on them.

 

As little in a marriage exists in a vacuum, rather is a confluence of events, perspectives and feelings from the totality of the M, these conflicts should necessarily be resolved within that totality. I personally see this 'friend' conflict as a canary, a sign of more fundamental issues to resolve. A skilled professional can assist in addressing those issues. Anonymous outsiders like our forum members can offer personal experience and advice which may bring new ideas to the table to consider.

 

Back to the beginning:

 

Q1: As a married person, should friendships with the opposite sex be treated the same as a friendship of the same sex?

 

In terms of the marriage, friends of the marriage are equal. Additionally, it would benefit the parties to the marriage to define what 'friends' are.

 

Q2: Should a married person be able to do anything with a friend of the opposite sex as long as its not cheating, or is there lines of what is right and wrong? And if so what are those lines?

 

The parties decide together what the boundaries are and each conducts their relationships within those boundaries and in a transparent manner. The 'lines' are what is decided by the couple. There are no 'universal' lines, IMO. Each marriage is an individual entity.

 

Lastly, I'll outline my definition of cheating: When in doubt, perform the behavior in front of one's partner. If they approve, the behavior is appropriate and can never be cheating, since they are disclosed. If they find the behavior inappropriate, well, then the couple needs to work that out.

[d0nnivain]

Having opposite sex friends isn't so much the issue as the priority to which you give the relationships. Here the man is away from home & his wife for 14 hours per day 12 of which he spends in the company of female co-workers who have been a problem in the past (the position of coworker not necessarily these particular women). On the other hand while at home, the wife is spending those same 14 hours talking & sharing with 2 other men. Both spouses seem to have elevated other people to importance levels above each other which is the cause of the friction. The fact that the new / HS buddy now wants to meet in person under the guise of letting the kids play in the park is making the husband understandably nervous.

 

 

Now lots of women do lots of child related recreational activities with their female friends. Occasionally there may be a man or two as times change.

 

 

If both spouses can find better ways to reassure their partners that they are priority # 1 & there is no future danger, that may allow both to continue to have opposite sex friends & co-workers. Without that reassurance, suspicion & angst will continue to reign.

 

 

I would encourage the husband her to meet the new guy, perhaps have him over to dinner. If that guy reassures the husband that he has no designs on the wife beyond friendship, things may get better but I would encourage the wife to make some same sex friends so she isn't giving all of her attention to a man not her husband.

[kburke328]

The only ones I put above my husband are my kids. I do not put the other guy above him. I talk to them both equally and just as much as I talk to my other friends as well. I do everything for my husband. I cook his meals everyday for work, I tell him everyday how much I love him and want to be with him, I am intimate with him and only him. Aside from our kids, he has always been my top priority. I even made him a special cake 2 days ago and decorated it saying "I <3 you". I do everything in my power to reassure him and prove to him that he is the man I want to be with but nothing I do is good enough. We have tried marriage counseling and a marriage retreat but nothing worked and we will never see eye to eye.

[kburke328]

Currently don't have any female friends.

Key word being currently. I never met any of the old ones. So why should you meet mine?

[Mr. Lucky]

2) I just don't get along with people at all. So for me to find someone that I can get along with and not want to kill is a really big deal. I have tried making numerous female friends and I have cut out a bunch of them. Only 1 I have been able to tolerate for 3 years now but she doesn't drive and doesn't live very close so it makes it hard to hang out.

Not the main issue here but "I just don't get along with people at all" is an interesting statement.

 

Why is that ??

 

Mr. Lucky

[d0nnivain]

It doesn't matter as much whether you actually put the other man about your husband, it matters that your husband feels like you do. His perception is his reality & until you change his perception this problem will continue to plague your marriage & may possibly cause it to end.

[veggirl]

Spending HOURS a day texting another man is setting things up to turn into an affair. Is 89 your birth year OP?

 

Your wife is on a slippery slope no matter how innocent her intentions may be. Though I can't imagine anyone is slow enough to think spending more time talking to another man rather than her husband is okay.

 

If she wants friends, join a freaking play group and meet other moms. If she can't get along with other females...I mean what? How do you trust someone who can't get along with an entire gender lol. Gimme a break.

[kburke328]

Not the main issue here but "I just don't get along with people at all" is an interesting statement.

 

Why is that ??

 

Mr. Lucky

Because I can't stand drama, fake ppl, 2 faced ppl, stupidity, lack of common sense, and lack of logic. There are very few ppl out there that aren't like that.