Marriage boundaries with friends of opposite sex

[kburke328]

Spending HOURS a day texting another man is setting things up to turn into an affair. Is 89 your birth year OP?

 

Your wife is on a slippery slope no matter how innocent her intentions may be. Though I can't imagine anyone is slow enough to think spending more time talking to another man rather than her husband is okay.

 

If she wants friends, join a freaking play group and meet other moms. If she can't get along with other females...I mean what? How do you trust someone who can't get along with an entire gender lol. Gimme a break.

But having 9 affairs with 9 different coworkers and still working with those women is ok? Working 12 hours a day alone with females is ok? Talking to a female for 12 hours in person with no proof of what is talked about or what is done is ok? hmmm....still think that talking to a male for 12-14 hours a day with breaks and also with proof of texts is bad? I talk to 4-5 people everyday all day, some of which are males and some of which are females. He talks all day long to prolly anywhere from 20-50 ppl both male and female. Why is it ok for him but not me? Double standard much?

[d0nnivain]

There are both men & women in any work place. Presumably during the work day the people are working not fooling around. Given the husband's past dalliances, I can see why you are concerned about what he's doing at work but you can't very well expect him to work somewhere there are no women. The world doesn't function that way.

 

 

However, as a SAHM there are fewer restrictions & oversights on your time -- no co-workers, clients or patients. If the kids are at school or playgroup you have time on your hands & the privacy of homes. with bedrooms & couches. It looks like it would be logistically easier for you to cheat (although you didn't say -- & I'm not asking -- where / how your husband's trysts happened).

 

 

To some extent because you made some peace with his past indiscretions it's understandable that you want the same courtesy but perhaps some of what's driving his insecurities is his own guilty conscience. He may be thinking that if the roles were reversed he would not be able to resist temptation & he is projecting that you won't be either.

[GorillaTheater]

But having 9 affairs with 9 different coworkers and still working with those women is ok? Working 12 hours a day alone with females is ok? Talking to a female for 12 hours in person with no proof of what is talked about or what is done is ok? hmmm....still think that talking to a male for 12-14 hours a day with breaks and also with proof of texts is bad? I talk to 4-5 people everyday all day, some of which are males and some of which are females. He talks all day long to prolly anywhere from 20-50 ppl both male and female. Why is it ok for him but not me? Double standard much?

 

What your husband did was wrong as hell. You would have been more than justified in divorcing his ass. But you didn't. You stayed, presumably wanting this marriage to work. Without appropriate boundaries, though, it's not going to.

 

I don't know whether your husband has worked on his boundaries or not. I hope so.

 

But this relationship, or whatever you want to call it, smacks of some boundaries, too. You sound angry, which I agree you have every right to be, but what you're doing smacks of revenge on your husband more than it is wanting a "friend". It's not going to help your marriage.

 

I think you should find a good marriage counselor; it sounds like both of you have a lot to talk about and hash through, and doing it in front of a neutral third party you can give you the space and tools would be a great plan. One big part of the discussion should be appropriate boundaries, for both of you.

[kburke328]

There are both men & women in any work place. Presumably during the work day the people are working not fooling around. Given the husband's past dalliances, I can see why you are concerned about what he's doing at work but you can't very well expect him to work somewhere there are no women. The world doesn't function that way.

 

 

However, as a SAHM there are fewer restrictions & oversights on your time -- no co-workers, clients or patients. If the kids are at school or playgroup you have time on your hands & the privacy of homes. with bedrooms & couches. It looks like it would be logistically easier for you to cheat (although you didn't say -- & I'm not asking -- where / how your husband's trysts happened).

 

 

To some extent because you made some peace with his past indiscretions it's understandable that you want the same courtesy but perhaps some of what's driving his insecurities is his own guilty conscience. He may be thinking that if the roles were reversed he would not be able to resist temptation & he is projecting that you won't be either.

You obviously don't know paramedics. A good 80% of them hook up at work, either at quarters or in the ambulance. Duh how do you think he cheated on me all those times? It is way easier for him to cheat than it is for me. I sit at home all day with a 3 year old and 1 year old. I would never ever allow any guy to come over without my husband home. Obviously I can't tell him to get a job where there are only males. That is not what I am saying. I am just asking for things to be fair, no more double standards. If he expects me to trust him and allow him to be friends with his female coworkers or any female and not have any issues with it then he should do the same for me.

[kburke328]

What your husband did was wrong as hell. You would have been more than justified in divorcing his ass. But you didn't. You stayed, presumably wanting this marriage to work. Without appropriate boundaries, though, it's not going to.

 

I don't know whether your husband has worked on his boundaries or not. I hope so.

 

But this relationship, or whatever you want to call it, smacks of some boundaries, too. You sound angry, which I agree you have every right to be, but what you're doing smacks of revenge on your husband more than it is wanting a "friend". It's not going to help your marriage.

 

I think you should find a good marriage counselor; it sounds like both of you have a lot to talk about and hash through, and doing it in front of a neutral third party you can give you the space and tools would be a great plan. One big part of the discussion should be appropriate boundaries, for both of you.

We tried marriage counseling. It didn't work. He pretty much said my husband is an idiot. I am not doing anything to be spiteful or get revenge. I have no friends so I am trying to make friends. I am sick of sitting at home 24/7 for the past 3 years with no one to talk to and nothing to do. Why can't I have friends? Why does gender matter? Like I said I tried having female friends numerous times and it just never works out. I have 1 real female friend and that's it.

[GorillaTheater]

We tried marriage counseling. It didn't work. He pretty much said my husband is an idiot. I am not doing anything to be spiteful or get revenge. I have no friends so I am trying to make friends. I am sick of sitting at home 24/7 for the past 3 years with no one to talk to and nothing to do. Why can't I have friends? Why does gender matter? Like I said I tried having female friends numerous times and it just never works out. I have 1 real female friend and that's it.

 

Because having a close male friend, who you spend time with and text with a lot, together with the fact that you're already pissed off at and very hurt by your husband, places you in a vulnerable and dangerous position. And your husband's feelings about it should be taken into account, even if he is a louse.

 

I'm asking you honestly here: do you want your marriage to work? You don't need to reply here "out loud", but it's a question worth pondering.

[kburke328]

Because having a close male friend, who you spend time with and text with a lot, together with the fact that you're already pissed off at and very hurt by your husband, places you in a vulnerable and dangerous position. And your husband's feelings about it should be taken into account, even if he is a louse.

 

I'm asking you honestly here: do you want your marriage to work? You don't need to reply here "out loud", but it's a question worth pondering.

I am not vulnerable. I am pissed but because he can't give me what he expects me to give to him. He wants to keep doing these double standards. I just want things to be equal and fair. Why should I consider his feelings when he has never considered mine? It has always been about him and his feelings. When will my feelings matter? When will it be about what I want? Why can't both our feelings matter?

[d0nnivain]

You obviously don't know paramedics. A good 80% of them hook up at work, either at quarters or in the ambulance. Duh how do you think he cheated on me all those times? It is way easier for him to cheat than it is for me. I sit at home all day with a 3 year old and 1 year old. I would never ever allow any guy to come over without my husband home. Obviously I can't tell him to get a job where there are only males. That is not what I am saying. I am just asking for things to be fair, no more double standards. If he expects me to trust him and allow him to be friends with his female coworkers or any female and not have any issues with it then he should do the same for me.

 

 

I don't know that much about paramedics. Sorry.

 

 

As for the bolded sentence above, have you told your husband that part? It may make him feel better.

[kburke328]

I don't know that much about paramedics. Sorry.

 

 

As for the bolded sentence above, have you told your husband that part? It may make him feel better.

Yup I have told him multiple times. Doesn't matter what I say or do. All that matters to him is his feelings and what he wants.

[d0nnivain]

Then you have a dilemma on your hands. From his post it wasn't clear that you had given him some reassurances.

 

 

Good luck. You both have some tough times ahead, it seems like.

[littleplanet]

new lights, different angles.

thread really took off since last time I looked.

 

Big difference, getting the other side of the story.

 

Past issues unresolved mess up the present.

But meanwhile the present MIQ in a wheelchair - I see as a non issue.

A tempest in a tea pot (and a convenient scapegoat for your husband.)

If MC hasn't worked, then you're stuck in present circumstances, Ms.

 

Double standards are what they are.

If you have no intention to cheat, that is what that is.

What you want (as stated earler) is just some adult companionship while you're child-raising.

Not for anyone else to dictate just exactly what that is.

You know your own self the best way to bring this about.

 

Why should your husband be so sure you're going to use this as a weapon against him?

But this is what mistrust between two people can do - if it is not resolved.

 

If you stick to your own code and have no intention of fighting fire with fire (but perhaps instead, with water) then that's what you do.

But sweeping it all under the carpet is just avoiding it.

 

Your anger seems justifiable enough.

I hope your kids come through all this okay.

[Mr. Lucky]

Yup I have told him multiple times. Doesn't matter what I say or do. All that matters to him is his feelings and what he wants.

 

Can't imagine a life with this much tension, disagreement and hostility - from both sides if this thread to be believed.

 

I'd be very motivated to fix it or move on...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Spectre]

Okay, ignoring everything else whenever you have one of those women who "has no female friends" and "just gets along better with guys" you should RUN FOR THE HILLS.

 

Seriously, the double standards and stuff are also wrong, but I HATE when I see a woman who says that to me. Saying " I get along better with guys" is akin to saying "expect me to cheat on you with one of these guys".

 

I also find it weird to turn to facebook for a best friend. I also find it weird for a married woman to specifically be looking for a male best friend. All kinds of red flags are set off when I see that. I have NO idea why she'd want to take some dude to a park with your children, that is an issue you guys need to resolve.

 

But the OP also needs to realize he can't have his cake and eat it too. You don't get to have female friends either.

 

People, this is just a bomb waiting to go off. It is weird to me when a husband is so adamant about keeping his female friends and the wife is so gung ho about looking for a specifically male friend on facebook.

 

Basically, to the OP and his wife they need to get it together: OP's wfe doesn't need to be hanging around dudes and talking to other dudes, nor does the husband need to be talking to other women, etc.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Spectre

[veggirl]

Doesn't even sound like you and your husband like each other. NINE affairs?! Ffs why are you with him?? I'm guessing you got married way too young. What a sad situation to bring children into.

Edited June 6, 2014 by veggirl

[Realist3]

OP,

 

You should quietly accept whatever friends your wife desires to have. 9 affairs? You have no room to place any demands on her whatsoever. If she has an affair, so what.

[dory]

Okay, ignoring everything else whenever you have one of those women who "has no female friends" and "just gets along better with guys" you should RUN FOR THE HILLS.

 

Seriously, the double standards and stuff are also wrong, but I HATE when I see a woman who says that to me. Saying " I get along better with guys" is akin to saying "expect me to cheat on you with one of these guys".

 

I also find it weird to turn to facebook for a best friend. I also find it weird for a married woman to specifically be looking for a male best friend. All kinds of red flags are set off when I see that. I have NO idea why she'd want to take some dude to a park with your children, that is an issue you guys need to resolve.

 

People, this is just a bomb waiting to go off. It is weird to me when a husband is so adamant about keeping his female friends and the wife is so gung ho about looking for a specifically male friend on facebook.

 

She's already made it clear the husband was blowing the facebook thing out of proportion; it was a silly post either to get attention or out of boredom.

 

These two don't trust each other and IMO are less interested in finding the answer to their problem than proving themselves right.

 

And I don't know why females who get along with males is such a trigger for you, but it sounds personal. You're entitled to mention it how you feel about it, as I'm allowed to state for the record that there exist plenty of women like me who can remain faithful but happen to get along better with men in general.

[atreides]

You obviously don't know paramedics. A good 80% of them hook up at work, either at quarters or in the ambulance. Duh how do you think he cheated on me all those times? I

 

Wow, i feel so assured now... heaven forbid i need to go in an ambulance, but i would hate to imagine the EMT moving a condom off to the side where i am about to lay on.... sigh...

 

What is keeping you in a marriage where your H cheated 9 times?

[Mr. Lucky]

What is keeping you in a marriage where your H cheated 9 times?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me EIGHT more times...

 

Mr. Lucky

[MissBee]

Spending HOURS a day texting another man is setting things up to turn into an affair. Is 89 your birth year OP?

 

Your wife is on a slippery slope no matter how innocent her intentions may be. Though I can't imagine anyone is slow enough to think spending more time talking to another man rather than her husband is okay.

 

If she wants friends, join a freaking play group and meet other moms. If she can't get along with other females...I mean what? How do you trust someone who can't get along with an entire gender lol. Gimme a break.

 

Ditto.

 

Anytime a woman states that she doesn't and cannot get along with other women...I immediately do this : . 100% of the time THEY are the problem and not half of the planet. Every woman I've known to say this usually comes with a lot of other issues: insecurities, excessive aggression towards other women and an inappropriate love of male attention. That for me is always a red flag and I've not known any well adjusted women who say this.

 

Also...the idea that one would get on Facebook and declare a search for a "best friend" as an adult is VERY bizarre. I have bestfriends, one is my sister, and these friendships formed organically and I didn't have to conduct a search for it. At this point in my life, my best friendships are pretty much established, and if I gain new ones it would also be an organic process. Perhaps your wife needs to engage in other activities with other moms or doing things she cares about outside of the kids in order to meet other people naturally...however if she is specifically avoiding other women, then that's going to be more difficult.

 

I have male friends but to be honest most of my close friends are women. My closer male friends are gay. The rest are more so acquaintances and men I hang with in a group settings and where our relationship does not consist of incessant texts and calls and me relying on them for lots of emotional support and spending lots of time together. My bf's bestfriend is his brother and the rest of his close friends are men, he has casual female acquaintances but similar to me,the closest friends he has are also males and his female friends are not people he spends lots of time with, texts often etc. I think this is normal, homosociality, to put it in sociological terms, where most people tend to form their closest friendships with people of the same sex. That said, it's not a huge problem for me or in my relationship as we simply have more same sex friends than opposite sex friends, if I were looking for a best friend I'd look for females first and he would look for males, but even if we didn't, I understand clearly that being friends with someone to whom you could potentially develop an attraction has to be something you tread lightly with and are transparent about in a relationship. That is, don't do things with this person that fosters an emotional intimacy that can slip and slide into more...spending 14 hrs a day texting and going out with another man when you're a straight woman, it isn't rocket science to see how this could possibly become something more. Yes it's inappropriate.

[iiiii]

Q1: As a married person, should friendships with the opposite sex be treated the same as a friendship of the same sex?

 

So long as they are innocent friendships (innocent intentions on the part of both parties) then I think they are the same.

 

If either party finds the other sexually attractive, then maybe they are not OK.

 

If either party has a history of conducting affairs, then maybe they are not OK.

 

Q2: Should a married person be able to do anything with a friend of the opposite sex as long as its not cheating, or is there lines of what is right and wrong? And if so what are those lines?

 

This is individual and decided between each couple.

 

But in general, I would say, if you wouldn't want your partner/spouse to find out you did something - you probably shouldn't be doing it.

 

If you wouldn't want your partner/spouse to find out you told someone something - you probably shouldn't be saying it.

 

And IMO, that holds true whether the friend is male or female.

 

Q3: Is this too much or not and why? Am I letting jealousy get the best of me?

 

It could be completely innocent, but it does sound like rather a lot. I do take it she's chatting casually through the day in between the other things she does, not solidly for 14 hours?

 

To be honest, to me, your wife just sounds lonely. Does she get a chance to go out and participate in hobbies or sports or craft groups on a regular basis, while you take care of the kids for the evening? That would give her a chance to meet people with things in common, and maybe she could chat to some of them through the day when she is at home by herself.

Edited June 15, 2014 by iiiii

[firmness]

Just read this in another thread - The Rules of Opposite Gender Friendships | Foundation Restoration

 

Very good and from a woman's perspective.

[firmness]

My wife and I could really benefit from outside opinions on this topic...

 

Question.

 

Q1: As a married person, should friendships with the opposite sex be treated the same as a friendship of the same sex?

 

Q2: Should a married person be able to do anything with a friend of the opposite sex as long as its not cheating, or is there lines of what is right and wrong? And if so what are those lines?

 

 

A1: No. Opposite sex relationships are very different from same-sex friendships. That we even have to have this conversation nowadays just blows me away. There is no "one size fits all" but there are plenty of good guidelines on this. I just posted this - borrowed from another thread The Rules of Opposite Gender Friendships | Foundation Restoration

 

A2: The whole "Do unto others" does not apply in these cases. I think that a person who is seeking out this sort of attention does not care what their partner does. She would likely just tell you "Sure, go ahead and get a female friend" The other model is that she would preclude you from doing it because she might doubt your intentions, while demanding that you give her this freedom. There are a number of double standards here in American society and we have to deal with them. This is one of the worst of them.

 

YOU got married. YOU had the wedding. YOU dated her. YOU might have even done the proposing. This is the consequence of those decisions. It is a harsh lesson, but the vast majority of men will have to learn it at some point in their lives.

 

Sorry to hear you are dealing with this. Good luck.

[HereNorThere]

I suggest you read the posts on the infidelity section, my friend.

 

Slippery slope, bro, slippery slope.

[alwayshere]

I remember hearing that you should not do, say, type, etc anything to a friend of the opposite sex that you would not feel comfortable with if your spouse was sitting right next to you. For some people, even that wouldn't be clear enough.

 

I really believe that no opposite sex friendship should pass the boundaries of casual acquaintance or one-half of a couple friend. And even with the couple friends scenario, nothing personal is shared and no time is spent without the other spouses present.

[HermioneG]

Ditto.

 

Anytime a woman states that she doesn't and cannot get along with other women...I immediately do this : . 100% of the time THEY are the problem and not half of the planet. Every woman I've known to say this usually comes with a lot of other issues: insecurities, excessive aggression towards other women and an inappropriate love of male attention. That for me is always a red flag and I've not known any well adjusted women who say this.

 

Also...the idea that one would get on Facebook and declare a search for a "best friend" as an adult is VERY bizarre. I have bestfriends, one is my sister, and these friendships formed organically and I didn't have to conduct a search for it. At this point in my life, my best friendships are pretty much established, and if I gain new ones it would also be an organic process. Perhaps your wife needs to engage in other activities with other moms or doing things she cares about outside of the kids in order to meet other people naturally...however if she is specifically avoiding other women, then that's going to be more difficult.

 

I have male friends but to be honest most of my close friends are women. My closer male friends are gay. The rest are more so acquaintances and men I hang with in a group settings and where our relationship does not consist of incessant texts and calls and me relying on them for lots of emotional support and spending lots of time together. My bf's bestfriend is his brother and the rest of his close friends are men, he has casual female acquaintances but similar to me,the closest friends he has are also males and his female friends are not people he spends lots of time with, texts often etc. I think this is normal, homosociality, to put it in sociological terms, where most people tend to form their closest friendships with people of the same sex. That said, it's not a huge problem for me or in my relationship as we simply have more same sex friends than opposite sex friends, if I were looking for a best friend I'd look for females first and he would look for males, but even if we didn't, I understand clearly that being friends with someone to whom you could potentially develop an attraction has to be something you tread lightly with and are transparent about in a relationship. That is, don't do things with this person that fosters an emotional intimacy that can slip and slide into more...spending 14 hrs a day texting and going out with another man when you're a straight woman, it isn't rocket science to see how this could possibly become something more. Yes it's inappropriate.

 

Exactly. Exactly. I don't know any happy, healthy women who eschew other women.

 

It is one thing to be selective in friendships. This is something else entirely.