You girls should never have problem finding a BF

[shet]

I know quite a few guys now who used OLD before they met their girlfriends IRL. All good guys. With good girlfriends. And they all say OLD made them despair. Intensely difficult to get to meet anyone, and then when you do, they either got rejected or had to handle really psychotic/unpleasant women.

 

Most of them are getting married. To wonderful girls they met the old fashioned way. These are eligible guys. But using OLD just made them feel like piles of ****. Something isn't right there. It really isn't.

 

Which is further reinforced when you read this crap from women here or elsewhere about how they get non stop messages from creeps sending them dick pics and asking for sex, or even seeming OK then being creeps when they meet. Where are these guys? Why don't I know them? Why do I know normal not creepy guys who used it? Where are all these ****ed up guys women tell us OLD is full of? Really, where are they? And how come my acquaintances who've used it ran into the female creeps instead of these girls wishing they could meet decent dudes, just like them? Something isn't right about the whole thing.

 

I even know a woman doing OLD right now who consistently comes back with stories of the guys she meets. Even though she vets them all thoroughly, even those she chooses to meet, always wind up committing such egregious errors or being so weird it's comical. You could pick up random guys of the street and stick them on dates and they wouldn't do the stupid **** these guys do. What the **** is going on?

[Phoe]

Where are all these ****ed up guys women tell us OLD is full of?

 

I will say, I didn't find creeps on OLD.

 

 

Most of the messages I received were pleasant and polite.

 

 

Only 2, if I remember correctly, were sexual in nature. Those got ignored.

 

 

The polite messages all got responded to.

[Do_The_Herp]

That's fine if you feel that way. We're all looking for different things in relationships, and so of course we are going to approach the process in different ways. My perspective reflects the kind of person I am and the kind of person I am looking for. I'm not a standard 20-something woman, and the fellows who are genuinely interested in me aren't the type looking for standard 20-something women. Some people might easily find 100 profiles a week where they feel attraction and mutual ground (to me looking for that is being picky enough, nothing to do with liking the same indie bands or pointless crap like that). I certainly can't find that, and I don't think my kind of fellow would (the fellows I have met up with from online certainly didn't). A lot of this is just personality type.

 

I'm not deluded-- of course you can't put all your eggs in one basket online. Of course you are going to approach multiple people, and keep approaching multiple people until one sticks or you quit. You can't make any one person oh-so-special before even writing them. But I personally don't think it's a great approach to erase any kind of specialness, either. People aren't interchangable, and I feel approaching them like they are is a major cause of dating problems these days.

 

I know very well I don't reflect the views of most women, or most people using OLD, or most people my age. I know I'm different and old-fashioned and I know this is probably a big part of why I struggle. But I'd rather be alone than be just another girl who'll do.

 

I totally understand your views, I was just curious about why you feel that way.

 

I think that if I were to truly wait for the "perfect" girl, who's totally attractive to me physically and on the same page as me mentally, I might as well have myself cloned and pay for the clone to undergo a convincing enough sex change and hypno-therapy to the point where it wouldn't be considered some highly complex form of masturbation. On a serious note, though, I totally understand and we all deal with these problems.

 

What exactly do you mean when you say these things, though? You're being vague here, and now I'm curious.

 

"I'm not a standard 20-something woman, and the fellows who are genuinely interested in me aren't the type looking for standard 20-something women."

 

I myself don't believe I fit any "standard", either. I wouldn't even know what the standards of "being" for someone within our range would be.

 

"Some people might easily find 100 profiles a week where they feel attraction and mutual ground (to me looking for that is being picky enough, nothing to do with liking the same indie bands or pointless crap like that)."

 

Now, I do believe that personal likes have no absolute relation to how well you actually get along, BUT, personal taste (in things in general general) can say quite a bit about their personality in general.

[Do_The_Herp]

I have only ever rejected 2 men who asked me on a date.

 

I have only ever gone on a handful of dates.

 

 

 

 

Put those 2 facts together and what does it mean? Men don't want to date me. I have gone several years without ever being asked out.

 

 

I've also tried taking things into control myself and being the pursuer, but got rejected each time.

 

 

I got tired of feeling so very unwanted. I tried OLD, I got those 18 messages, and in amongst them was the message from my current boyfriend. I'm very grateful and feel so lucky that he reached out and wanted to be with me.

 

I doubt it. You're merely experiencing the same sort of negativity that the majority of people both male and female on here experience. All of the male whiners, myself included, have most likely not put themselves out there enough or at all and simply need to be around people in general more to get comfortable enough being social in general.

 

The females, it could just be that a lot of guys are chicken**** and so they assume the worst rather than thinking "maybe I'm intimidating", they need social experience and to put themselves out there like the guys, it could be any # of reasons..

[Lernaean_Hydra]

If I had one weakness with OLD, it is that I am not very photogenic. I hate getting my pictures taken, and every woman that I met mentioned that I looked better in person.

 

Pretty sure that was your problem right there then...

[somedude81]

Ah, it's this thread again.

 

Yes, dating is easy for the majority of women, and dating is hard for the majority of men.

 

Some men understand how the game works and have no problem getting dates. Just as how some women don't understand the game and have lots of problems. Those cases are not the norm.

 

I do believe that it's extremely rare for a woman to not be able to get a date from a decent guy. In those occasions where she's going a long time without any interest from men, it's usually a sign that she is doing something very wrong.

 

On the other hand, men don't have to screw up that much to be completely ignored by women. I was walking around Bend, Oregon today and lots of people were out and about walking around downtown. Not a single woman met my gaze or acknowledged my presence. I was completely invisible. I thought I was dressed nice for the hot weather, and I had product in my hair, and nothing.

 

There's also the ongoing disaster that is OLD where no women has ever sent me a message, nor have I ever received a reply. While I know that my profile isn't great, it's not horrible. But the results say otherwise.

 

So as a man who has absolutely struggled with women and getting interest my entire life, it's really difficult for me to feel bad for the women that are "struggling." The fact is that, even the women that have had a rough time dating, have had a handful of boyfriends by the time they hit 25. There are several men posting on this board who are 30+ and have never had a GF. I didn't get my first till I was 31 and that only lasted six months. I seriously doubt that there any women out there older than 22 who have had more trouble with dating and relationships than I've had.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

I had assumed as much. However, that is very telling. Are the ladies on there really looking for the serious relationship they claim, or are they just looking to hook up with the best looking guys they can get. Still, my pics weren't so bad as all that, I read profiles, sent witty messages, and still nothing. Most of the women who did respond did so in such a way that conversation was impossible.

 

This is why I warn everyone to stay away from OLD. The men will just get discouraged from constant rejection, unless they are really lucky, and the women will just raise their standards to unrealistic levels.

 

You do not have to be "classically attractive" to be attractive. But if all your photos are shots of you looking pale, awkward, surprised, making a funny face or otherwise uncomfortable, it's definitely a mood killer.

 

Despite what people think, you do not have to be a 10 to land a woman on OLD, nor do you need to be some chiseled Adonis...but you DO need to be able to take a few photos that show you to be at least not hideous. However that's only half the battle.

 

I received (literally) hundreds of messages from guys during my brief stint with OLD (as do most women in decent shape above a 5) but the guys I replied to weren't necessarily even the best looking ones (and I got some messages from some REALLY hot guys!). I replied to the ones who had a decent profile and a good opening message. A guy who is a 5 can quickly move to a solid 7+ in my mind if he piques my interest in other respects. Especially if he knows how to make/let the conversation flow.

 

I never "raised my standards" (looks wise), due to the volume of messages I received. A lot of the best looking guys I ever talked to were complete duds personality wise. However it did make me want to hold out for the guy I "clicked with" as opposed to just saying yes to the first guy who I maybe sort of possibly see myself with one day....

[Eternal Sunshine]

Getting sex is easier for women. Much easier. Too bad most of us don't want that.

 

Finding a meaningful long term relationship is equally difficult for both sexes.

 

Wherever I work, there is zero single men and at at least a few single women. Go figure. I can easily conclude that this means it's easier for men to get a relationship but I realize that my sample size is too small. Maybe male posters here should realize the same

[guest572]

You don't have to be, but it helps. It's also useful if you conform to whatever is cool at the moment. Right now, it's cool for a guy to have a beard and tattoos.

 

Is it?! You didn't see the guy with a huge teenage mutant ninja turtle tattoo all over his arm. So not cool!

[Eggplant]

It's really hard to be overweight but above average in looks. Generally speaking, big girl=below average in looks. Not trying to be mean, but that's kinda how many guys think.

If she's markedly overweight. But if she's truly only a few extra pounds, men's preferences vary drastically. For some men, those pounds are unforgiveable, and they wipe you right out of consideration. For others, it's a minor annoyance, and isn't prioritized over other features. And I've met a handful of men who are decidedly not attracted to women who are too petite -- they want a fleshier woman. Given the choice between being 10 pounds overweight and having otherwise 10/10 skin, hair, you name it, and being slender and not having those features, I'd choose the former.

[Lernaean_Hydra]

You don't have to be, but it helps. It's also useful if you conform to whatever is cool at the moment. Right now, it's cool for a guy to have a beard and tattoos.

 

In my circle of friends, that's not really what rates as attractive. But again, I'm only speaking for myself and my group. Although I feel like we're not a hoarde of outliers or some such. Plenty of women either couldn't give a f* or don't care either way about such things.

 

 

 

My photos did that much at least. I figured that, just like in the real world, everything would fall into place for me because of my other more desirable traits. That wasn't the case. The issue that is being discussed in this thread is how OLD is almost impossible for many men. I was just pointing out that even though I do reasonably well dating offline, online I was pretty much a loser.

 

 

Alright then, some of us (male and female) are winners at OLD and some of us are losers. Far be it from me to base everyone else's experiences on my own.

 

 

This also proves my point. A guy in decent shape above a 5 will get a few messages, thus giving him a few women to chose from. However, you have shown just how many men an attractive lady has to pick from. More options lead to a much better chance of success.

 

If you, as a man, are in decent shape than you should have decent chances too right? Anyway, having more options is meaningless if what's being offered is nothing you want to choose from.

 

 

 

You say you didn't raise your standards looks-wise, but you did raise them.

 

So? Raising your standards isn't such a terrible thing; for either sex. I mean unless you (general you) are such a poor choice that you don't fit nearly anyone's standards.... When I say I raised my standards I mean I didn't simply agree to a date with the first couple guys who showed interest, rather than holding out for the few I had a bit more in common with. But this is something that is equally true offline. There's nothing wrong with saying "yeah, I think I can do a bit better than settling".

[irc333]

THing is, I know of quite a few single women that purposely avoid opportunities to meet men only for that very reason (they could easily get dates).

 

Funny how ironic that is.

 

There's this one woman I know that goes to Meetup events, sometimes she'll have a +1 to +3 tag along with her, but that woman isn't on the Meetup site nor ever has plans on registering with the Meetup site at all.

 

I've gotten to know the woman who brought said friend or friends plural and noticed they've stopped coming with her, but I would always see her out with them on Facebook (seeing their pictures).

 

And I kind of jested with her saying, "You're holding out on us gents here at the Meetup, how come you don't bring them to the events?"

 

She said they weren't much for going to them and they get hit on a lot while out in public apparently...she was speaking FOR THEM, so obviously there's nothing arrogant about that comment, but a non-partisan/unbaised response.

 

They simply don't desire to be approached by men.

 

I noticed that this one single woman, that came with other "regulars" of the events. YES she is a member of Meetup, but....she rarely attends the events.

 

When she does, she desires more so to mingle WITH the people she came with and comes off as stuck up with other men outside of her "fish bowl" social circle to really get to know them.

 

She'll give short, cordial responses, but the "getting to know you banter" is something she avoids. You can tell even with the body language.

 

So rest assured this kind of cements the idea that the aforementioned would have NO problem getting a boyfriend, IF they let them "in".

 

But in a sense, the aforementioned women WOULD have a problem finding a boyfriend if they didn't have a stick up their butt. LOL

 

 

 

Ah, it's this thread again.

 

Yes, dating is easy for the majority of women, and dating is hard for the majority of men.

 

Some men understand how the game works and have no problem getting dates. Just as how some women don't understand the game and have lots of problems. Those cases are not the norm.

 

I do believe that it's extremely rare for a woman to not be able to get a date from a decent guy. In those occasions where she's going a long time without any interest from men, it's usually a sign that she is doing something very wrong.

 

On the other hand, men don't have to screw up that much to be completely ignored by women. I was walking around Bend, Oregon today and lots of people were out and about walking around downtown. Not a single woman met my gaze or acknowledged my presence. I was completely invisible. I thought I was dressed nice for the hot weather, and I had product in my hair, and nothing.

 

There's also the ongoing disaster that is OLD where no women has ever sent me a message, nor have I ever received a reply. While I know that my profile isn't great, it's not horrible. But the results say otherwise.

 

So as a man who has absolutely struggled with women and getting interest my entire life, it's really difficult for me to feel bad for the women that are "struggling." The fact is that, even the women that have had a rough time dating, have had a handful of boyfriends by the time they hit 25. There are several men posting on this board who are 30+ and have never had a GF. I didn't get my first till I was 31 and that only lasted six months. I seriously doubt that there any women out there older than 22 who have had more trouble with dating and relationships than I've had.

[HappyLove]

If she's markedly overweight. But if she's truly only a few extra pounds, men's preferences vary drastically. For some men, those pounds are unforgiveable, and they wipe you right out of consideration. For others, it's a minor annoyance, and isn't prioritized over other features. And I've met a handful of men who are decidedly not attracted to women who are too petite -- they want a fleshier woman. Given the choice between being 10 pounds overweight and having otherwise 10/10 skin, hair, you name it, and being slender and not having those features, I'd choose the former.

 

I think it's pretty funny how most men, even the ones who couldn't get a date if they PAID you to date them, want this model thin woman. Even funnier is that they'll be fat themselves with a beer gut, double chin, and receding hairline yet have the nerve to criticize a woman who is 10 pounds overweight. Such a joke!

[hasaquestion]

Ah, it's this thread again.

 

Yes, dating is easy for the majority of women, and dating is hard for the majority of men.

 

Some men understand how the game works and have no problem getting dates. Just as how some women don't understand the game and have lots of problems. Those cases are not the norm.

 

I do believe that it's extremely rare for a woman to not be able to get a date from a decent guy. In those occasions where she's going a long time without any interest from men, it's usually a sign that she is doing something very wrong.

 

On the other hand, men don't have to screw up that much to be completely ignored by women. I was walking around Bend, Oregon today and lots of people were out and about walking around downtown. Not a single woman met my gaze or acknowledged my presence. I was completely invisible. I thought I was dressed nice for the hot weather, and I had product in my hair, and nothing.

 

Wait, were you walking around just making eye contact with people?

 

I think it's pretty funny how most men, even the ones who couldn't get a date if they PAID you to date them, want this model thin woman. Even funnier is that they'll be fat themselves with a beer gut, double chin, and receding hairline yet have the nerve to criticize a woman who is 10 pounds overweight. Such a joke!

 

People can want what they like.

[somedude81]

Wait, were you walking around just making eye contact with people?

 

 

Just trying to see what girls would acknowledge my existence. I felt like I was invisible.

[somedude81]

I think it's pretty funny how most men, even the ones who couldn't get a date if they PAID you to date them, want this model thin woman. Even funnier is that they'll be fat themselves with a beer gut, double chin, and receding hairline yet have the nerve to criticize a woman who is 10 pounds overweight. Such a joke!

 

Completely not true.

 

The vast majority of men who are struggling want a cute normal girl, not a model.

 

We're also not horrible looking guys. I have a picture of me in my profile.

[Weezy1973]

 

Yes, dating is easy for the majority of women, and dating is hard for the majority of men.

 

Wrong - 55% of adults in North America are married. If the majority of people can do something, it must not be that hard. For men or women. And that just refers to marriage - if you take into account other relationships the number will be much higher. People who want to be in a relationship, but can't do it for whatever reason (such as yourself) are outliers.

 

Some men understand how the game works and have no problem getting dates. Just as how some women don't understand the game and have lots of problems. Those cases are not the norm.

 

See above stats. Most adult men are either married or in a relationship. They likely succeeded because they understood that there actually is no game involved. Those cases are the norm.

 

I do believe that it's extremely rare for a woman to not be able to get a date from a decent guy. In those occasions where she's going a long time without any interest from men, it's usually a sign that she is doing something very wrong.

 

Possibly - guess it would depend on your definition of decent. But yes, if a man or a woman is not having any success finding a relationship (and wants to be in one), then usually there is something deeper that is wrong.

 

On the other hand, men don't have to screw up that much to be completely ignored by women. I was walking around Bend, Oregon today and lots of people were out and about walking around downtown. Not a single woman met my gaze or acknowledged my presence. I was completely invisible. I thought I was dressed nice for the hot weather, and I had product in my hair, and nothing.

 

I'm not quite sure what your point is here. Do you believe that dressing nice and putting product in your hair should score you a date merely by walking around a random city?

 

There's also the ongoing disaster that is OLD where no women has ever sent me a message, nor have I ever received a reply. While I know that my profile isn't great, it's not horrible. But the results say otherwise.

 

Yet you devoted a thread to getting advice on how to improve your OLD profile, a lot of great advice was given to you, and then you got angry and chose not to change anything in your profile.

 

So as a man who has absolutely struggled with women and getting interest my entire life, it's really difficult for me to feel bad for the women that are "struggling." The fact is that, even the women that have had a rough time dating, have had a handful of boyfriends by the time they hit 25. There are several men posting on this board who are 30+ and have never had a GF. I didn't get my first till I was 31 and that only lasted six months. I seriously doubt that there any women out there older than 22 who have had more trouble with dating and relationships than I've had.

 

I suspect that there are very few men or women that have struggled with dating and relationships as much as you. You are an outlier.

[shet]

I'm 30 and had dates but no proper relationships. I made a thread about it. Are you going to tell me I'm an "outlier" (your euphemism for "freak") too? It isn't constructive and it is insulting. Don't do it.

[Imajerk17]

Walking around trying to make eye-contact with women isn't going to do anything worthwhile and is vaguely creepy. You should have done some actual approaches.

 

The men who do well with women are the ones who put themselves out there and who aren't so afraid of rejection. Often these guys are no taller nor better-looking than you are.

 

Anyway somedude81, I agree with the others. You got all sorts of advice on your online dating profile--among other things. Have you even used any of them?

 

I think this sums up the struggling dudes. They spend a lot of time discussing how hard dating is for them and wishing for success, but at the end of the day they don't really do much to change it.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Imajerk17

[Keenly]

I think it's pretty funny how most men, even the ones who couldn't get a date if they PAID you to date them, want this model thin woman. Even funnier is that they'll be fat themselves with a beer gut, double chin, and receding hairline yet have the nerve to criticize a woman who is 10 pounds overweight. Such a joke!

 

Attractive men can have trouble getting dates too.

[nofeelings22]

I have to add to this.

 

You get out what you put in.

 

With my best pictures, a profile that casts me in a fun, but responsible light, conversational skills, etc... I do ok online.

 

You should have the same results online dating as in real life.

 

Going to check my Inbox right now on one site... brb.... So: 743 messages in my inbox. 553 unread messages. This is a mainstream site. It says I've sent 141 messages. I've had the account for about 5 months.

 

After tweaking my profile to get the most responses, I can now see how women generally feel with online dating. I am very overwhelmed by it. 553 girls i never responded to because I had others Inbwas interested in. I only want one, but it's so damn overwhelming to try to winnow the messages down, then try to date them to figure it out, I've nearly given up.

 

I'm sure this is how most women feel.

 

Yeah, there are a lot of contacts that send messages, but narrowing them down to people you are attracted to, who are also good people is a full time job and nearly impossible.

 

I'd venture to say women get the 1000 responses, but how, exactly, does that help them find a good boyfriend? It really doesn't. In fact, I think it makes it harder.

[hotpotato]

Attractive men can have trouble getting dates too.

 

Exactly. Plenty of attractive men have problems getting dates. They may be introverted, socially awkward,etc. A lot of FAs are hot.

[Phoe]

Attractive men can have trouble getting dates too.

 

Yup. Exactly. And decent looking women can have trouble too.

 

 

Nor are we "freaks" or what have you..

 

 

Nor do we have some sort of "deep inherent problems"

 

 

We are normal people, who just happen to have had a bit of a rough time in the dating world. It happens.

[ltjg45]

I noticed that the majority of the women around here is in a relationship at almost all times. They also happen to be women that I can't see me dating at all so it is a bit weird how they are almost always taken.

 

As for me, I don't consider myself to be hugely attractive. Decent enough to get a date? Yeah....but to believe that I am "good looking" as some women have called me? No, not that attractive. I just don't see it.

 

Either way, the reason why I have gone date less throughout my entire life is that I have yet to meet one single women that doesn't have a way to make me go crazy. When I do meet one, they are in a relationship already.

 

So....yeah. I don't know if it is me being unlucky or standards too high but I doubt it was change much from here on out.

 

If I can't succeed now. I don't see it changing at all during my 30s.

[Keenly]

Exactly. Plenty of attractive men have problems getting dates. They may be introverted, socially awkward,etc. A lot of FAs are hot.

 

 

FA stands for?