Is it Over or Is It Worth Fighting For?

[Poppy]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here and i would be grateful for anyone's input as i feel so confused. I will try to be brief but it is a very complicated story, so if you can bear with me, here goes:-

 

Truly happily married for 31 years when daughter got married. I've been sexually abused in childhood which i told my husband about after 20 odd years of marriage. Couldnt bring myself to do it before. He was as helpful as he could be but never really understood the depression i could get from time to time. He was the most devoted and entirely in love with me husband and i was so confident of his love. When my daughter got married i was very lost as i wasn'twork ing at the time, so my life became all wrapped around the home. I have to tell you here that i had a problem with anxiety and panic attacks and would get very anxious about keeping the house clean. My children grew up with it and my husband used to put up with me but laugh at me sometimes too, as i would try to laugh it off. I started to get very depressed when my daughter was married and gone and i got so low that i went to my doc. She sent me to a counsellor who asked me could it be my marriage? To be honest with everyone, i had a lot of resentment towards my husband and my mother in law who always used to have a little joke at my expense because of the fussiness so i thought maybe this was it and yet my husband was my partner and i knew i loved him but i thought maybe i didnt love him enough.

 

I eventually told my husband i needed to have some time on my own. He was absolutely shocked and bewildered as our marriage was so strong. We met when we were both 19, he knew the night he married me that he had met the woman he wanted to spend the rest of his life with and me too. He was my rock, my soulmate, my best friend, everything i could wish for in a man. It was as if i was driven to get out on my own and prove to myself that i really did love my husband enough and i just had to go. My counsellor also had me wondering if i had married the right man as i told her about my first love who was a rotter but who i had always wondered about. I got it into my head to find him and sort myself out. However my husband found out about this and went beserk but also told me to find him and sort myself out. I did find him, i went to stay with him for a w.end but phoned my husband to tell him everything was ok because i had found the same man who i was glad to be rid of way back then. He wasnt to worry i would be home soon. He wasnt happy when i got back home and things went from bad to worse. I was so determined to have some time on my own that we ended up remortgaging so that i could buy my own flat. My husband helped me with everything, he put a new kitchen in for me, did up the bathroom and lots of things. We remained very much in contact, sleeping at each others places, cooking meals and going out to the pictures and walks. Things were ok although i was still depressed and i couldnt understand why i was living on my own but i knew i couldnt go back so i gathered i didnt love him. I told him to get sex wherever he could but when he did after about 4 months i was completely devastated. My confidence had never been very good and this just made it worse. I reacted with absolute melodrama, breaking my heart and he came back to me. He told me he hadnt realised how much i loved him and she was just not to be compared with me. He ended the relationship and came back to me but at one time he told me the door was still open and i could go back at any time but i had to stop all the cleaning. I immediately panicked because my marital home was wrapped up in my cleaning and so i withdrew into myself and didnt say a word to him. Gradually the o/w who text him to say she would wait even if it took forever for him, wormed her way back in and i used to spot odd texts going backwards and forwards. However we still remained seeing one another. We went to the new year's eve ball and were dancing really intimately and on going home my husband went to bed and i was making a drink when a text came in on his phone and i just knew it would be from her, as she had been there observing us all evening. It was from her and she was saying i want you i need you please call me. I lost so much confidence at that point, not that i had much before but now i completely went inside myself and almost gave up without trying. We were together for another 8 months, doing the same stuff, eating together, visiting each others places and going to the pictures and walking, visiting the grandchildren and taking them out on a saturday afternoon but then last August my husband asked me for a divorce. I had expected it as i had told myself he was probably seeing her behind my back and because of my pride i agreed to it.

 

I text him to say i wasnt doing good and i didnt want this and he just text back that i would be ok. He went straight to this o/w and was in a relationship before i could catch my breath. When i realised he had been contacting her again since the April on and off i was completely gobsmacked. When i tackled him and asked him who he wanted he would say, well her at the moment. I can't just finish with her like before and it has to run it's course.

 

I went into a worse depression than i have ever been in in all my life. I almost stopped eating and living with a hell. I eventually got taken into hospital as i had a nervous breakdown. My husband came to see me and broke down and we hugged and hugged. However, he still went with the o/w when the family told him he was giving mixed messages, he chose to go with her. I was heartbroken, completely and utterly a broken person. However, the breakdown was the best thing that could have happened to me because it came out that i had actually been suffering from 'contamination ocd' for 40 years and all the depression and anxiety that goes with it. It had got so bad that i was living my own personal hell and trying to keep it hidden from those who loved me because i feared they would reject me. At the time of my husband's decision to stay with the other woman over me, i accepted that my marriage was over although i could hardly believe it. He took this o/w on a short holiday so that he could sort his feeling sort his feelings out for her and when he came back he still hadn't made up his mind. We went for 3 weeks without any contact and then we spoke and he told me the door wasnt closed. This after all the family who had pressured him to make a decision and not give me false hope whilst i was in hospital, opened up hope for me again. At one time i asked him to spend xmas in the Bahamas with me and he replied last xmas would have been good but this xmas just too soon! Then not knowing what was happening at xmas, i asked what were we doing about all the presents and he said we're doing what we always do aren't we. So i shopped and did everything and we shared the cost and everyone got presents from both of us!!!! Very confusing.

 

 

Since my breakdown i have pulled myself back up and now back living on my own in my own flat. I am having ocd therapy, assertive classes and working voluntarily in an office for a charitable organization. Nothing has changed with the o/w, he still sees her at hers and she sees him at his, his mother still does his washing and ironing and he told our daughter it's not serious with her but it's easy.

 

He told me once i'd killed his love but i know he loves me still, i just know it. When i left him i doubted my love and now i'm better i know that my love is still here. Is it possible that i've bruised and hurt his love so much that he is hurting like hell and so prefers to think of it as dead. He is a tortored man. He seems to be living two lives. We still see each other on a saturday afternoon as he wants us to be with the grandchildren as we always use to do. He always includes me and we are so natural together. Once when we met he said some couples would never get back together but with us, it would just slot back into place. I just dont know what to think. I know i hurt my husband but i've been told i was very heavily depressed at the time and suffering with it right up to i had the nervous breakdown. He is now hurting me as he is still with the other woman and telling me that i killed his love but not breaking away fully. Has anyone got to the end of this rather long posting!!!!!!! Sorry about the length of it but i would be pleased for any replies whatsoever. Many thank yous from Poppy

[Devildog]

Yep, made it all the way through poppy. But the part that struck me the most was early on. If you are still seeing the first counsellor, the one who encouraged you to go find your ex after 30 some years, then please, find a new counsellor. I would seriously question the authenticity of their license and credentials. Sending you off for a weekend with an ex, who in your words "was a rotter" after 30 some years of happy marriage? That was wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong!!!

 

That point was the begining of the end.

 

I think after so much time, it is still comfortable for the two of you to be together politely and on moe or less friendly terms. But I would suggest looking at moving on to your own new relationship. I don't see your husband ever being fully back into your marriage.

 

I'm sorry.

[Poppy]

Thank you for replying DevilDog. I appreciate your comments. Can you tell me why he should be saying he feels like he's living two lives and why whenever i tell him i'm sorry or say anything personal he says things to me like, let's see how it progresses, you don't know what's around the corner, you don't know what's in the future, let's see how things progress and never ever well it's too late now or i'm so sorry but there is no way back or anything final. I have been told by many that he's keeping his feet in two camps. He chose o/w back in August and yet we still do all family birthdays and events as a couple and he doesnt take the o/w to his family, his Mother still does his washing and he hasn't moved it on in any way. They still live in their own homes staying at each other's but everything is the same as when he made his choice back in August. He says its not serious and it's easy!

 

I don't want to hang onto hope but i can't help myself because i love him and i want him to forgive me and see how ill i've been. I was suffering with so many panic attacks and depression as well as living with ocd which i wasn't even aware of when i ran away. I was running from myself and until i had the nervous breakdown i was so afraid to go back to the house which had become a prison to me. We both hid our hurt and didn't speak up to each other, hiding from all the pain. I may be wrong but i can't believe that deep love can actually die. I think it can be bruised and if there in the first place, can always be resurrected and nurtured back into place. If he is seeing another woman, then i wouldn't expect him to feel 'in love' with me, nor would i expect it after all the hurtful things i did to him but then he has done equally hurtful things to me and i know that i still love him.

 

I hope i'm making sense here, just speaking my thoughts. I would appreciate your views or anyone else's who may be reading this. With many thank yous. Take care everyone from Poppy

[Owl]

Poppy-

 

Well, I'd have to say that he very well may still love you...but at the same time may never trust you emotionally again. He's been so hurt by this, and so confused by your conflicting actions that he has no idea how to deal with you on that level anymore. It sounds to me as though he's "cut his losses".

 

I agree with Devildog too...it sounds to me as though that first counselor gave you some of the worst possible advice imaginable! Look at this from your husband's perspective...that counselor told you to check out someone else after 30 years of loving marriage?!?! Please!!!

 

At this point, you may very well need to work on cutting your own losses as well. I honestly think that you husband is trying to move on now after your marriage was shattered by all that happened. You may have to simply accept the fact that after what you've both been through, it's not possible for him to come back to you. Both of you made some bad choices...and now you're both going to have to find a way to live with the consequences of those choices.

 

I don't mean this as an attack. I'm being honest and up front tho. My wife had an emotional affair with a man nearly a year ago now...and I'm JUST getting to a point where I'm feeling better about things. I know its going to take a long time for our marriage to heal...and the only reason that healing is possible is because we had such a strong base (17+ years of good marriage) to build from. But...that was a one time, short duration thing. Your situation is complicated by quite a few things...your mental health issues, the (unusual?) treatment you were recommended by your counselor, your husband's subsequent actions and reactions and behaviors...etc...

 

Regardless, good luck to you friend!

[Devildog]

Poppy, how long had you been having the depression and panic attacks and ocd? How long did you go before you got it treated? Now, your husband lived with that for that same amount of time. When you felt this way, he most likely wanted to help you back up from the low feelings. But he couldn't. In reality you were dragging him down with your depression as well. You think the depression is difficult? Try watching someone you love suffer from it, be unable to do anything to help them overcome it, and be on the receiving end of the anger they feel. It will beat anyone down.

 

I'm not telling you this to blame you, or to make you feel guilty. I just want you to have an idea of what it is your husband endured and understand why he would have reluctance and hesitation.

 

Your best course of action is medication, counseling, and trying to find ways to put your husband's fears to rest. Make yourself the attractive choice. It will take some time, so you need to decide how much time and effort you are willing to put forth with this.

[moimeme]

Yep, made it all the way through poppy. But the part that struck me the most was early on. If you are still seeing the first counsellor, the one who encouraged you to go find your ex after 30 some years, then please, find a new counsellor. I would seriously question the authenticity of their license and credentials. Sending you off for a weekend with an ex, who in your words "was a rotter" after 30 some years of happy marriage? That was wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong!!!

 

It wasn't the counsellor who suggested she go with the other man. The counsellor asked her if her marriage might be the cause of her misery and she decided that might be the problem. It was she who thought about looking up the ex and her husband who told her to do so. Read again:

My counsellor also had me wondering if i had married the right man as i told her about my first love who was a rotter but who i had always wondered about. I got it into my head to find him and sort myself out. However my husband found out about this and went beserk but also told me to find him and sort myself out.

 

The mistakes here were in your husband telling you to go look up the ex and you telling him to get sex where he could. Unfortunately, you both did what the other suggested, driving wedges into your relationship. Once he developed affection for the ow, you were in trouble. By wanting to go out on your own, you wounded your husband and that's what he's talking about when he says you killed his love.

 

Whether or not you both were ill or in distress when you made these unwise decisions matters not one whit. In following through, you broke the bond between you. It's unfortunate, but I fear far too much damage was done for it to be repaired.

[Poppy]

Thank you to you all for every single thought, view and opinion on my very real tormenting situation. I live every day with hindsight and now that i am getting both ocd therapy and depression help, i can see oh so clearly what i put my husband through when i told him i needed some space. I can see all the disastrous decisions we both made by trying not to hurt the other and by trying to hide the hurt we were feeling at each other. Devildog, i hadn't been that awful to live with when i had the depression, i will always look on the positive side and life had lots of fun times even if i did burst into tears from time to time!! I had children, so i wouldnt dwell on my own feelings and it is this fact and the building of the ocd that sent me over the edge when i began to break down.

 

I can honestly say, that my mind was all over the place, searching for questions to why i felt i had to get away. I made the decision with all the information i had at that time, which was practically nil. I made the decision whilst being more down than i can ever tell anyone and i didn't have a clue what i was running from or running to. In my childlike mind - an aftereffect of childhood sexual abuse, my love for my husband was still there and so was his for me and always would be, in other words, i am guilty of taking him for granted, thinking there was no way in this world, he would leave me or take me up on the 'sex with other women thing'. I was so sooooooooo sure of his love for me and i made the ultimate mistake of thinking it would always be there.

 

I made sooooooooooooo many mistakes at a time when my mind was unwell. Within 1 month of my moving into my flat, i went down with pneumonia and blood clots on the lungs, then i lost my voice with bronchitus, then i had a foot operation - 3 months on crutches and then went down with flu so the whole time has been a total nightmare, both physically and mentally. The nervous breakdown was the kindest thing that could have happened to me because at least now i know what was wrong with me and why i reacted the way i did. I honestly think i've hurt his love and trust and only time will heal that and that is what he is trying to tell me when he says things like - it's too soon (i asked him to come away with me and talk about our marriage problems or reaffirm our marriage vows) and his answer was it's too soon. He will always be my husband in my mind, even if we do part and there is no way of getting back. I hope and pray this isn't the case as i will regret my sexual abuse for the rest of my life and it's consequences. I would hate for that (animal) to have ruined my life in every single way. I pray to God that he helps us both to forgive one another. In the eyes of God we are as one and with my prayers i ask him to forgive me as i am learning to forgive myself.

 

Again, i thank everyone for their insight into my plight (such an ineffectual word)! and their time taken in replying. Many thank you's and have a good Friday and week-end and if you are in loving relationships, then please nurture them and don't ever take anyone for granted.................................. Love and hugs to you all from Poppy

[Devildog]

Poppy, this may seem like an odd question, but are you devoutly religious?

 

I ask because I have known and heard of a number of people who might not have been regular church goers strengthening their relationship by going back to church together. Perhaps if you have not been doing that you can start going again and ask your husband to join you for that. It would give you at least an hour a week together if nothing else. Maybe if you spend time together doing something many people see as a positive, soul-enriching experience, it might give your relationship a more positive spin in his eyes.

 

And no, I am not a devoutly religious person. I'm a non-practicing Catholic

 

And I guess I should apologize for mis-understanding your initial post, as was so politely pointed out to me. It was a long post, it was early in the morning, and it was a long night for me. My apologies.

[stuck2]

Hey poppy,

 

Its been 4 months and I still wonder if the decisions i have made are right? Do the walls ever stop looking so large?

 

I am terrified of being on the " Market " again. its the last place i ever wanted to be. I enjoyed being married, well maybe it was the thought of being married. I don't know.

 

My husband had a choice of drugs or me, guess who lost. I knew going into it that he did drugs, I was'nt a prude. He said it was only once in a while, and like the little dog in the car window, I bobed my head and went forward. No one can ever tell me that marjuauna isnt adicticting, I know better. At the same time I was lossing my marriage I was also loosing my son to it. Time for this fool to come out of la la land and join the real world. Between the two of them I was exposed to multiple personalities, manipulation, and a broken heart that just about wants to burst out of my chest. Belive it or not my husband and I were maried only 1 year and 4 months, we were together for almost 6 years. as with your marriage i am sure there were warrning signs howerever I was sick that day. Oh how i wish for some one to talk to. someone who has no expectations. I have started back to school to fill up some of my free time, I wish it went through the weekend. I know I sound pittiful and I am.

 

My advice to you is not to become a man-whore. to many scarry things to catch and i am not sure if it is worth the moment. There are other ways to take care of your needs and i would suggest you to look into them. (toys, in case you could'nt read between the lines)

 

I am a romantic at heart and belive that some one is out there for me. I want them to be. I can't say the anger or hurt will subside, I can't even tell you how to make it go away, If I could tell you that I would be able to give you instructions on how to use this chat line to your best advantage. Lord I have so much to learn. should i ever be able to get back here I would hope to find a message from you of a success that I won't obtain anytime soon. LOVE!

[Poppy]

Good morning DevilDog - firstly thank you for your apology on calling me hard to live with after reading my first post, your explanation of it being early in the morning, an extremely long post, got out of bed the wrong side (ooops made that one up!) haha is quite understandable. I can't believe how long my first post grew to! and what's more i was trying to keep it short. I couldn't tell everything as it would have been a book before long!!! Obviously thoughts go through the mind and depending upon which thoughts get typed down, is how you are going to read the message and put it all together, so therefore depending on how many positives and how many negatives i word into my message will be how you are reading it at your end................. My goodness me, i always did say a heck of a lot to say hardly much at all hahaha. The long and the short - please accept that i appreciate any possible comments and any possible help in this awful situation.

 

I've never been devoutly religious and if honest, have always wondered why God never helped me when i needed him, so have been a little wary that he is up there at all. However, when i was at a point in my life where i loved myself so little and could see nothing left to live for and at this point had the nervous breakdown, ending up in hospital for over a month, i did ask my Mother to purchase me a small bible. I felt that i needed to spend my time reading it for some reason. I've even taken to holding it in bed and praying on it, with it or without it at all silly times of the day. I know that deep down i will never be certain of my religious beliefs, maybe because of my past but i do hold out that i am a very nice person who has had a lot of hurt piled onto her and which was not her fault and so surely with some fight from me, there should be a life for me where i don't always have to live with the after effects of my childhood. I am doing so soooooo well in all my counselling and becoming stronger within myself for the very first time in the whole of my life.

 

It will be a whole new me soon, a more confident, more loving and definately more rounded person for all i've been through. I always remember that my husband had no worried about choosing me for his life partner many years ago, whereas his pride was badly hurt when this other woman who had kept on letting him know she was available to him, stepped in. She let him know time and time again she was there for him. When we tried to get back together again the first time around and he told me his love for me was not to be compared for what he had in 10 days with her. In fact there were three of us there, me floundering and no self esteem within me to fight against a younger woman 16 years my junior and full of confidence and cheekily after my husband of 31 years who loved me deeply, then there was my husband, a devoted partner who had given every last ounce of his being to our relationship and had it thrown back at him when his wife said she didn't know what was going on and needed some space! and then there was the wife who was in her own hell and suffering from the most terrible panics, whenever in the marital home and so confused by it all after so many happy years, couldn't make the right decision over 'white or brown bread' let alone the state of her marriage!! you can see how easily it all got out of proportion and how the hurt of the pair of us, kept us from telling the other how we really felt.

 

I think i have to do what he says and wait and see how things progress. I meanwhile am taking some pride in living autominously and managing my own affairs and getting myself straight within myself and not keeping any more secrets locked up inside me turning into bit knots to beat myself with.

 

Thank you DevilDog for your return message but as for my husband coming with me to Church, which i have done on several occasions since coming out of the hospital, but i don't think there's any way i could drag my husband to one, even kicking and screaming!!!!! I would like to ask him to fix a new front door to my flat but am having difficulty as to whether i should or not. Spending time with him is both wonderful and torturing at the same time so sometimes no contact is by far the best for my peace of mind but does little to remind him of my existence!!!!!

 

Have a great week-end and enjoy the sunshine and all those feelgood factors that come from it...... Bye for now, love from Poppy

[Devildog]

Poppy, right now I think the best thing you can do is to take care of yourself and let your husband decide on his own what he will do. He is still in your life, make yourself an attractive alternative again. Work on getting help for your depression, become a happier person. You are the only person that can do that for you. No one else can make you be happy, it has to come from within you.

 

And as you become a happier and more pleasant person that people enjoy being around, your husband could very well enjoy spending more time with you.

 

And if it doesn't work out that way, you are still a happier, healthier, stronger person that can still have a fulfilling life.

 

Is there anything you have ever wanted to do? A hobby you always wanted to try? Activities that interest you? Do them. It is a big first step towards making you happy.

 

I hope things work out for you Poppy. Sometimes things don't work out how we want, but you might be surprised that things work out for the best.

[Poppy]

Hey Stuck2 - thanx so much for your input and time reading of my torture story! I was so soooooo sorry to read of your nightmare. I don't know much of drugs only through my sis who lives in FLA and who married a guy who turned out to be alcohol and crack cocaine addicted and she never had a clue until her wedding night!!! She stuck by him for about 4 months, getting him into rehab, going to church, reasoning, pleading, just about everything she could think of but he was dragging her down, letting her down and she soon realised she would never come first and 'it' was always going to win so she quit after 6 months of marriage. I know the pain she went through so have an inkling of what you must be going through. I'm hoping that you can find someone to 'talk' to as this is an absolute necessity, to be able to get things off your chest and speak it all out, get rid of it, the anger, hurt and resentment as it will eat you up - i know this for certain as i had so much of it and it absolutely consumed me. It got so bad, i couldn't see the wood for the trees. Find someone who is willing to listen, talk on here if you havn't got anyone else! i will keep looking in just in case you do find your way back here!!! Do you know for all that life is an absolute **** at times, there is always something better after all the ****, we just need to hold on in here. Life will be beautiful again for us both, of that im sure, we just need to stay strong and get through whatever amount of days 'this' has allotted to it.

 

Thanks for your advice Stuck2 and i quite agree with it. I've no intention of rebounding and getting myself into even more scarey situations, i would rather concentrate on getting my life together and feeling good about myself, learning to love myself for the first time in my life - it's never too late just remember that. Hope to hear from you bye for now and love from Poppy

[Poppy]

DevilDog, thanx for your help and advice and i'm sure you're right and i'm also following your advice and getting myself into a much better place than i've ever been in the whole of my life. I had'nt realised just how little self esteem i had or even how much i loathed myself and was feeding off other people to make me feel better about myself. WRONG WRONG WRONG. I recall my husband telling me to learn to love myself and although i couldn't think what he meant at the time, i now do and accept that he was perfectly right. I am doing it slowly, the counselling, the ocd work, the assertive course, the college training, the getting on with my life, voluntary work is all adding up to me feeling pretty good about myself. I no longer look at a sunny day and think 'oh god not the sun again, i don't want to be reminded of how everyone else is happy and i'm not'.

 

Yesterday my husband and i met up to take our small grandchildren out for the afternoon which is something we have done since they were born - 4 years ago and we did agree to stick to even if we got divorced. However when he first left me, cut off all ties and went into the relationship with o/w i was so broken that i found it very difficult to keep it up. I went abouty 3/4 times but when he would drop me back to my flat and i knew where he was then going it would crucify me and i had a spell when i couldn't go along with him and he would take my Mother instead, they are two very demanding little boys and definately a 2 man job!! With christmas approaching, i contacted my husband and asked if he would like to take them both out on a Saturday with me on a Thomas The Tank Santa Special and since then we've met up most Saturdays and i have to say that yesterday was the first one where, although a little odd still, went more comfortably than any before it. My husband didn't seem quite so distanced and even sat quite close to me on the sofa when i had the 1 month old in my arms. He took some shots of me and i him and we laughed and joked and he kissed me on the lips as he left. I think you're right, to continue my path of getting myself back on the top rung for myself and myself only, carry on diligently and not judging him is the only and the best way i can go.

 

Thank you DevilDog for your input, much appreciated. We have a glorious sunny day here in England today and i intend to get out there and enjoy it!!!!!!!! Bye and love from Poppy